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jagspecx
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Inappropriate?@jagspecx, I'm sorry to hear that you are frustrated. I'd like to help. Maybe you can help me better understand the issue that you are facing?
99% of AirSet is purely web-based and all of our tools and applications work great on a Mac, as well as on a PC. We do have a Desktop Sync utility that only works on Windows.
If that is the issue, let me try to explain. We feel that the calendar and contacts applications that we have developed in AirSet are better than the desktop equivalents. What we really want is for people to move away from these desktop apps (calendars, address books, etc.) and move to AirSet.
For Windows users, there happened to be a company out there with an inexpensive Outlook sync solution. We licensed this solution to help these users ween themselves off of Outlook, but it doesn't make sense for us to create that technology ourselves.
For Linux users, we do not have any immediate plans to offer the same type of synchronization with Thunderbird that we do with Outlook, but the AirSet Contacts application does have import/export mechanisms that would allow you to transfer address book information between AirSet and Thunderbird.
For Mac users, you can subscribe to your AirSet calendars in Apple's iCal, but it is only a one way sync, i.e. anything placed in AirSet will appear in iCal, but if you put an event in iCal it won't go back to AirSet.
Hope this helps in clarifying the issues. Like I said before, I'd really like to better understand your frustration and do our best to help.
Sherrie -
Inappropriate?@Sherrie-
Wow...really wow.
In all of my dealings with AirSet, no one has ever said that they wanted users to move away from desktop applications...until now. Certainly Brian, and perhaps others, have said that they want to be the PIM and group management solution, but to get rid of the desktop apps has not been voiced.
That changes my understanding of the scope of the project a great deal, mainly because my understanding and use of the features in AirSet as compared to Outlook, means that AirSet has a great deal of development still remaining.
I'm not meaning to rain on your parade, because I truly love AirSet, but it is not Outlook. Maybe I am ill-informed; if so please correct me, for it would make me very happy indeed, to find out that I no longer need Outlook.
I have a few thoughts for improvement, or perhaps areas where you can correct me if I am wrong in my understanding of the workings of AirSet. Outlook will, but AirSet won't:
*Allow me to read email within the application. Yes, this is an important part of PIM management--Especially in areas of integration within the applications.
*Allow me to drag and drop almost any type of data into almost any app within the application. I can drag and drop an email into a calendar and it becomes an appointment. Or I can drag a task to the calendar and it becomes an appointment. Or vice versa. This is complete, with reminders and everything. Just a drag and drop, never leaving the application.
*Allow me to work offline. I can do all kinds of work in the middle of no where, which will automatically sync, email, or do whatever is necessary the moment I am back in an area that has an internet connection.
*Allow me to take my contacts, email, and calendar with me, wherever I go. All updated and current, without having to do a backup, sync, or download.
*Allow me to have multiple email accounts, all delivered to the same app, or even the same inbox, if I desire.
*Integrate seamlessly with other necessary office applications. Excel, Word, Publisher, Access, Visio, Infopath, Groove, Project, and the coolest of all: Onenote, all integrate with each other and Outlook without a hitch, sharing data and formats in a mind boggling way. Yes, I have OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Lightening, and Sunbird, but they do not integrate like the MS Office suite does.
*Work easily with a great number of add-ins. Yes, Connector is a cool add-in and it is easy to install, but so many others require a mini-degree in programming, or at least html, just to get them to work. With Outlook, I click on download and voila! The add-in appears, ready for use.
*Work with the Franklin Covey Plan Plus add-in. Huge point here. A,B,C, and 1, 2, 3, get my day done. Knowing my mission, values, goals, and compass points, keeps my direction straight.
*Manage my daily tasks. Re-occuring at whatever interval I designate. Remember The Milk comes close...
*Allow me to delegate tasks.
*...And others that I can't remember at this time.
AirSet is much better than Outlook at group management, but isn't there yet, as a PIM application. If any of the above is wrong, please correct me....I'd love to be wrong and learn of undiscovered features in AirSet.
Thanks for listening,
Jim
I’m happy
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This is one of the best points
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Hi Jim,
Just to chime in here, we don't currently provide an email app so we are not looking to displace Outlook for its email client functionality. On the calendar and contacts side I agree there are a lot of bells and whistles in Outlook that don't yet exist in AirSet as you point out but 95+% of users never figure out how to take advantage of those features. In fact, most of the world continues to use paper for both contacts and calendar and with good reason, for all the features you describe it's hard to beat paper - paper is always on, has a very readable high contrast screen, you can take it with you anywhere, you don't have to worry about internet connectivity, power, or batteries, etc. As someone who has worked in the electronic PIM space for 22 years now this has always been the number one competitor, not Outlook or any other application. The killer feature that makes electronic address books and calendars finally better than paper (IMHO) is the Internet. My wife (who also is a programmer so not a technophobe) would never use any electronic calendar or address book because they were never better than paper for her. She has used Outlook for years, but only as an email client. She has finally made the switch to AirSet, and if you knew her, you would know that it has nothing to do with my being at the company :-) And the reason she uses AirSet is not any of our advanced calendaring features, or web access from different computers, or any of that, but simply because it lets her put things on MY calendar and it lets her see things I put on the calendar. That's the one thing that makes it better than paper for her. For her personal use, none of the bells and whistles of an electronic calendar trumped the ease of use of paper. But the ability to reach out through the ether and put things on my calendar or the kids calendar and have the calendar send text messages to our mobile phones - that's what finally convinced her. It is this networked feature that I would argue trumps all of the other personal features of Outlook or any other system. Similarly for contacts, the reason AirSet is better is not any layout or technical issue, it's that she doesn't have to keep all of the contacts up to date herself, if I update a contact, it's updated for her. Now if you have the money and savvy to run an Exchange server, you can get this networking AND all of the bells and whistles in an Outlook environment but most small companies, school classes, little league teams, churches, families, clubs, and other groups don't have that option - and even if one of your environments is networked with Exchange, only that portion of your life is networked, your company is not likely to invite the little league team, church, and boy scout troop to all have accounts on their Exchange server, but your company and all of those groups can be on AirSet. So I guess the bottom line is that if you buy into our premise, then the networking AirSet offers is vastly more important than any of the other features. This may not be true for everyone, but we do believe this holds true for a large swath of society. -
Just one more clarification, we are not looking to move people off desktop applications in general. Our view of the world is that there are some apps that are simply better done as desktop apps. For example word processing, I don't think we'll see a web based word processor that can hold a candle to MS Word for a very long time if ever. On the other hand, as noted above, if the essence of the app is more about networking than taking maximum advantage of the PC hardware, then I think you can do a better job in a web app.
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@Brian-
What you say is very true...paper as a medium is superior in most ways to electronic data. And there are some desktop applications that will probably remain desktop publications for some time, although if ZOHO gets their act together, that may change for word processing.
And I understand about the ability to reach out through the ether and touch someone's calendar. It seems that many people now have the ability to command chunks of my time. :) I would say about SWMBO and her children, that they never had a problem updating my calendar when I was carrying the paper version of Franklin Covey. I would sometimes be surprised with a dinner date with SWMBO or a date with the kids at the park that was entered in handwriting other than my own. :)
When Sherrie posted that Airena would like to see its users move away from PIM desktop applications, that was a bit of an eye opener for me, as it provided clarification for what AirSet must accomplish to be a player in the PIM field. Sincerely, I want to see AirSet succeed. I have staked my reputation on AirSet in a number of areas, and if AirSet were to fail in the manner of IWantSandy, it would cause me a GREAT deal of consternation. However, if AirSet is to continue to be viable in this endeavor, then the Airena staff must come to grips with what they are attempting to replace. Simply stating that 95% of users are unfamiliar with and don't use the more advanced features of a competitors product won't get the job done. (That is not intended as a jab--please understand.) I see a formidable competitor in: http://iscrybe.com/main/index.php This is truly an awesome app and it comes close to being real web based competition for Outlook.
Of course, when Redmond begins looking this direction for additional revenue stream, it'll be a rough day if Airena is not firmly entrenched in everyone's daily routine.
You've got my vote, but please don't relegate desktop syncing to a necessary evil. AirSet is not ready to replace my PIM software yet, so syncing to Outlook is a really big part of the system for me. -
Inappropriate?The way I found Airset was that I was looking for a viable alternative to Outlook. Admittedly, I don't use much of the functionality that Jim describes, so to lose Outlook wasn't as tough. Nevertheless, I've found Airset in combination with Thunderbird a good way to kick my Microsoft habit, even if I do have to maintain a copy of Outlook if I want to keep my PDA synced with Airset. I do wish there was some other alternative to that.
I’m unconcerned
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This is one of the best points
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@Summiteer-
I really tried looking for a replacement for MS, having used the various open source options, but most fall short in critical areas. I would like a cheaper alternative to MS, since we are running somewhere around 8 units with MS Office installed.
As for the PDA, I agree. In fact, I would like to see AirSet sync and store data on my PDA/phone. It works great with AirSet, but as soon as I disconnect from the java client, all information is gone. :(
BTW, I am really making progress with the church. Plenty of hard work, but worth it. How has your luck been at pushing AirSet a little more aggressively?
Jim -
Our goal here is to have over the air syncing to a client in users mobile phones. We have java and brew clients that run on main stream phones but we are a bit behind on supporting some of the PDA phones, most notably the iPhone. One concern we have even when we do have the resources free to work on the iPhone is whether Apple will accept our app, our service competes with a lot of the elements of their MobileMe offering.
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Thanks for asking, Jim. Actually I haven't been trying to push Airset at all because I'm waiting for the new UI. To try to get my technophobes online with Airset is hard enough without getting them used to an interface that is going to change, so I've been sitting tight and waiting for the roll out. I'll let you know what happens.
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Also want to add a comment that our new release is really just a couple of weeks away! We will be sending out an email announcement shortly about the upcoming change. And then formally announce it. If you guys use Twitter, you should probably follow "AirSet" there as well.. :)
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@Summiteer-
I understand waiting for the roll out as that would have been my plan for the church also. However, the administrator called me and asked me to do the presentation on Tuesday....so here we go. I did include a short statement about the new roll out (in guarded tones...I am waiting for the roll out on several pieces of software, one of which was first promised in 2004 (not a typo!)) Very few of those in that meeting have bothered to log on to AirSet, but they have given me a great deal more support and access to the data required to make the project work. At this point, it has been more work for me more than anything else, but I am looking forward to the end result, which is exciting.
Looking Forward,
Jim -
@Sherrie-
Twitter? Meh.
As you can see, it is very unusual for me to post anything in less than 140 characters. I don't believe I can post anything with clarity in that little space. I also struggle with a useful function for the app. Who needs to know the mundane details of my life...I guess it feels like a cyber version of "The Truman Show."
Throw in what happened to IWantSandy after twitter acquired it...and Twitter becomes Qwitter. I am loyal, almost to a fault, and I take note of flakey behavior. Sometime I will share the list of companies that will never see another dime of my money. :)
Jim -
Inappropriate?I started airset because I had two computers both trying to manage the same data (contact list) and constantly struggled with "up-to-date" issues. The PDAs my wife and I used at the time turned out to aggravate the problem. (Though we tried using Activesync to try and bridge the gap)
We realized "There can be only one" master source; Distributed data doesn't work for most normal things. We hunted for an online place to be that Master for everything else to sync to. All the other services didn't have the full Outlook data model, so I'm glad that Airset is one of the few surviving ones (so far).
Brian's wife required the "networked" aspect to upgrade her PIM functions, and I'd agree that "distributed data maintenance" are a huge huge "killer app feature" that is a new generation beyond Outlook. Still, I pretty much needed the jump from paper to Outlook-- I had TOO MUCH paper. Half of it out-of-date (but unknown how old it was) Some of it critically not where I could find it. Some half-legibly scrawled in margins, stickynotes, envelopes, in a sometimes heaping, unorganized mess. Some pieces would have a person's name and address, but their email would be somewhere else; maybe not even with their actual name... You get the picture.
Franklin Covey probably could have solved many of those problems as well as outlook, but I'd dread the day I lost my planner.
Airset is wonderful, when we can reach it. From a technology and service plan perspective, my family can't always. Additionally, even if we solved those issues, there would still be concerns about service reliability and backups that would require us to have a usable offline answer. Airset's printing certainly isn't good enough, in my opinion. Not pretty, not configurable enough.
Because "contacts" is a concept intimately related to mail/messaging, I was sad to see above that airset was not planning to displace outlook in the email field. It's hard to parse your intentions from that short statement, but I've been hoping that the airset email/messaging would improve enough to be useful. Right now I find it to be a little less than "wordpad" level. (re-checking, I seen I can do fonts now, but attachments and preformated messages are still out) Of course, I can still spawn Outlook, if my distribution list is less than ### characters, but it rarely is. And, because Airset doesn't really have an email box, replies and the rest of the conversation is disjointed from the initialization.
Though it seems you'd like to declare that the "Desktop is Dead", I don't see it happening, any more than paper died when people moved on to computers. Even now with this third generation, the first generation solution, paper, will survive as a backup, at the least. Outlook syncing will survive on several of my devices for quite a while because it's cheap, in comparison to a $30/month data plan. -
Inappropriate?I just really like to clarify that we are not saying that "desktop is dead" by any stretch. In fact, in order to access AirSet, you will definitely need a desktop computer or a laptop. :)
What I said originally was "We feel that the calendar and contacts applications that we have developed in AirSet are better than the desktop equivalents. What we really want is for people to move away from these desktop apps (calendars, address books) and move to AirSet."
And that's what we strive to develope--a better alternate calendar and contact solution for groups that is superior than the desktop alternatives. And at the same time, we are definitely trying to build bridges to connect your data from other desktop services to AirSet.
It's great to come back here and read all of your comments though!
I’m happy to see the exchange of ideas!
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Inappropriate?Hi,
I understand exactly what Jim is saying, although I have a slightly different strategy which involves not using Outlook at all :)
I have all my email accounts forwarded to a single GMail account, where I tag mails, which turns them into instant Remember the Milk tasks, which I CAN access at any time because RTM uses Google Gears to continue working offline.
However I really DO want Airset's calendars and contacts to be available to me offline too, which means one of two things. Either Airset rolls out its own offline solution (a light desktop client, a method of syncing with Calgoo's desktop client, or a Google Gears option) or it rolls out a set of APIs which will allow someone else to add Airset to the list of web apps that sync with their desktop client.
I too am absolutely convinced of the worth of AIrset, and I have completely stopped using any desktop calendaring (and any paper calendaring). I just find myself at an occasional disadvantage when I find myself somewhere without any net access :)
Owen
I’m waiting for the version after the next version :)
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Inappropriate?This is for Brian, really, because it expands upon what I have said here and elsewhere. Have you seen Scheduleworld? 2.0 is out and here is a wiki page: http://wiki.scheduleworld.com/wiki/Sc....0_Applications_Should_Work_This_Way
It is an open source eresktop webapp that is designed to sync calendars. There is no need for Airset to produce a desktop app - just a way for Scheduleworld to do two-way syncing :)
I’m not really pushing - just throwing some ideas out!
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This is one of the best points
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Hi Owen,
I looked at ScheduleWorld quite a while ago. It looks like a good application and following your link it looks like it has come a long way since I last looked at it. One of the reasons we are not that focused on syncing to other desktop calendars is that AirSet does something that no other calendar service does, so it is hard to properly sync to other services because they don't support the same model. Above I spoke about one of the key differences between AirSet and personal calendars - the idea that the compelling reason to go from paper to electronic is that calendars are almost inherently shared applications, most of your events are with other people and in fact a relatively small number of groups (or "sets") of people account for the majority of your scheduling needs (work, family, and a couple of church/social groups). So AirSet is built around the concept of a collection of shared calendars with you as the individual at the intersection of these shared calendars. To my knowledge no other calendaring solution gets this yet, so any sync is imperfect at best. For example, most calendars do not have a concept of group participants to the events. Our premise is that in today's world, most people have access to the internet whenever they are using their PCs. Our solution for when you don't have access is to provide a client for your mobile phone that understands the AirSet model and syncs with it. There are people for whom this model doesn't work (and people whose phones we don't yet support) and I can understand that they may choose some other solution for that reason. But there is a huge market for whom this approach does work and that is what we are targeting. As we grow, we may well eventually have the bandwidth to do everything everyone wants but right now we have to focus on projects that will benefit the most people. When it comes to calendar data access our priorities are 1) make the best online calendar solution possible (and you will see some dramatic improvements in the release that comes out in 2 weeks) 2)provide clients for mobile phones so people can access that data anywhere 3) support widely supported calendar import/export/subscription standards (icalendar), 4) provide a "google gears"-like offline solution for AirSet and 5) provide synchronization to other desktop calendars. The only reason we have a sync solution for Outlook is that Outlook has huge market share so we wanted a solution to help ween people off of Outlook and we were able to find a company with a reasonably priced sync solution we could buy. -
Inappropriate?Oops, that url looks like it won't work. Here is the same thing run through bit.ly: http://bit.ly/5me2 That is the Scheduleworld 2.0 wiki page :)
I’m apologetic for the bum link!
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Inappropriate?This is a wonderful read..it is so amazing to watch things evolve.
Sherrie really pegged me. I chose to use Airset because it synced to my Palm, and I could use it as a way to coordinate my Palm and my wife's Palm. I really expected to always enter data on the Palm or in the the Palm desktop software, and just use Airset as a data respository. But that is not the way it worked out. I still sync and occaisionally reference the Palm, but I rarely open Palm desktop. However both of us are on the Airset site constantly, and using their email reminders and RSS feeds, etc. Very interesting.
Now with Connector, I find myself using Firefox more and more..I suppose that was planned too?
-C
I’m influenced
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Inappropriate?@Chris, we are happy that with all the new tools, we are making AirSet more relevant in our users' lives. And we DO perform much better in Firefox. So if you are using Firefox more because of the benefits that AirSet Connecto brings, we like that. :)
I’m happy to see changes that we can make...
