Warning: Carbonite ignores files at random

Thanks for your reply, but it doesn't address the concerns I raised. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that -after learning the hard way- I understand that certain file types are not backed up by default.

To paraphrase, my complaints are:

1) At the time that I purchase my subscription (last year), your basic promise was "unlimited backups". When paid my $100, I was not told anything about exception lists, etc. and the client app seemed to be backing up everything I asked it to. Now it isn't, and on your website you seem to be backing away from the "backup everything" messaging, but that's not my problem.
2) Putting the exception list in a FAQ three clicks into your website doesn't make it OK. Throwing up a huge red warning message when files that I asked to be backed up are NOT being backed up would be a step in the right direction, but...
3) Your exception list includes files that probably 90%+ of users NEED to be backed up (home movies, .exe's, files with underscores in the name, etc.) which makes the service not only useless to most people, but dangerous (because they think that their backup is complete when it isn't). At best, it makes the service ridiculously labor-intensive, because every single time I create, save, copy or download a new file, I have to manually check to see if Carbonite is ignoring it or not. The suggestion that I memorize a long list of rules about what's backed up by default, what's not backed up by default, what's not allowed to be backed up at all, unless it's under a certain size, or in a certain directory, or if I have a paid subscription, etc. etc. is ludicrous, and beyond the capabilities of 99% of the general population.

I'm disappointed because I loved the install-and-forget functionality of the original client app, but your policy changes have destroyed its usefulness. Clearly the "back up everything" promise was biting off more than you could chew, but these crazy new restrictions are not the solution. If people are uploading 200 GB worth of pirated movies, charge them more, but don't mess with those of us with 30GB of legit data to backup.

Hi Nick,

Our basic promise is still Unlimited Backups. It's good to know you purchased last year, so I have a better idea of how the information you're talking about was presented to you. Back then, it was in a large window entitled "Important Information You Must Read About Your First Backup". The title was in big, bold, red letters. (We changed to a different style of windows in the installer over the last six months or so. The same information is presented, but in a series of smaller windows that hopefully folks are less likely to ignore.) And yes, we also include this information a few clicks into our searchabe FAQ section.

In that window, we went into a lot of detail about what is and what is not backed up, including mentioning .exe files and system files. At that time, you're right - video files were included by default in folders that were already selected for backup, and so that information wasn't presented to you.

That change was made by customer request, by the way. A lot of folks found that their backup was being bloated by a lot of large (easily replacable) video files, and requested that we change the default so that only the folders containing video explicitly selected are included. That way, the irreplacable video files (baby's first steps, etc.) can be included and the DVD rips, podcasts, etc. can be skipped. I'm sorry we didn't get the word out about that change as well as we should have.

The current version of Carbonite indicates that folders contain items that aren't selected for backup by showing a green dot with a hole in the center (a green donut) so that at a glance, you can see that a folder includes items that aren't being backed up.

An upcoming version will also include the option to override the exceptions list for any type of file. For example, you could right-click an .exe file and select to back up files of that type in folders selected for backup. Less labor-intensive than now, but without changing the default settings, which are preferable to the majority of our users.

Regarding your last point, the only real policy change was the change to how video files are handled. The other file types have been excluded by default since the beginning. I'm sorry that you feel we've changed too much to continue to meet your needs.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc

My original email to Carbonite a month ago asked if there were going to be any changes. Thank you for finally answering that question.

Posting warnings on install is not good enough. I didn't read it, and I'd guess most others didn't either.

As a general rule, if a software app isn't going to do something I just asked it to do (like back up ALL the files in a folder), it needs to tell me right then and there in big bold letters (not 6 months ago when I installed it, and not if I happen to notice the color of the icon on the folder afterwards).

While the "set ignore rules" option is a step in the right direction, I think some kind of wizard would be more helpful, and less complicated. Something that says "Some of the files in the folder you just selected will NOT be backed up by default. Here are the files (or file types) that will be ignored: [list] If you want these files (or types of files) to be included in the backup, click the "Include in backup" check box." Or something along those lines.

At least this way I know what's going on, and don't have to memorize some crazy list of rules. More work, yes, but better than always wondering if all my files really are being backed up.

If you implement this, I will gladly remain a customer. I like all other aspects of the service except for this.

Hi Nick,

I'll certainly share your comments with our design team. Whether we implement it exactly as you described or in some other way, hopefully we'll improve the way we communicate to Carbonite users just what is and isn't backed up.

Thank you for taking the time to talk about this with me.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc

Len (and Nick),

I am experiencing this exact problem today. All of my irreplaceable Kids videos are backed-up to Carbonite.

There is a gigantic fallacy in the "Skip DVD Rips" comment, and that is: many camcorders these days are DVD-based and [can] use Rewritable media. I rip these DVDs and reuse the RW media. So, there isn't a DVD elsewhere to restore from. And even if there were, DVD is not a reliable backup solution.

The relative merits / validity of my approach are irrelevant. The files should be backed-up by default.

The "ignore files" approach (or similar) should absolutely be a customer selected option. By default, it should backup everything. Making things simple is one thing; determining whether a particular VOB file is relevant to a consumer is their own business.

Dirk

Dirk- I've suggested to Len that, when files in a folder that has been selected for backup will be ignored, that a large warning appears asking the user what they want to do about the ignored files (back them up, back up all files of this type, ignore, or ignore all files of this type). Apparently they're working on a new software release now, so we'll see if this functionality is included. If not, I'm finding another backup service.

Yes Nick, your suggestion is an absolutely a must add feature. I had absolutely no idea those [critical] files were not being backed-up.

--Dirk

Carbonite has so many problems, I switched to Mozy.

1. Some of my backed up files failed to get restored when I did a "restore all". Luckily I noticed it and restored the missing files.

2. Empty folders are not backed up. Some of the tools I use store their data in complex folder structures that depend, at runtime, on certain folders being there. One tool in particular, Subversion, requires this to such an extent, that, after restoring the backups, without the empty folders, the data was rendered unusable. WHY would Carbonite choose not to store the folder structures as-is, is incomprehensible.

3. .ICO files are not backed up. Well, there goes hours and hours of work creating Icons. Thank you Carbonite! I don't care if this fact was listed in some exclusion list in some fine-print somewhere. It just doesn't make any sense, and, I got screwed out of houndreds of dollars on this.

4. .JAR files are not backed up. Thanks again Carbonite!

5. The Client UI code is so buggy - nothing works in the UI. I just click a link (like the restore individual files link) and, it just sits there. This behavior was seen in a FRESH install of Windows XP with Service Pack 3.

PLEASE, DO NOT USE CARBONITE - I AM GOING TO TRY MOZY!

Wow after a long and continued search for the PERFECT backup solution, I still find myself continuing to look. Thanks for someone caring enough to start this thread, great idea!!

I so agree with every thing that is being said about Carbonite here. I have installed and use Carbonite on four machines, all of which were installed less than 3 months ago. So we are still in a beta of sorts. I have recommended to Carbonite on 3 or more occasions to change their polices. See I totally disagree with anything or anyone who provides a product or service in the backup world that does not believe in total redundancy.

How can decision be made to exclude files?? That is the very backbone of what a backup solution is to provide.

Who in their right mind says lets exclude such and such file or files type? WOW! that's ridiculous.

The exclusion of any file is so absurd I can t believe I even have to write this post.

See we recommend backup solutions for 100's of clients being that we are a totally outsourced development firm, so things that work for us we suggest to or clients.

We have not been able to recommend a single offsite backup solution, other than expensive ones, to anyone as they are all useless.

Now lets me say I do like Carbonite as it is the best of the bunch, but if they do not make the necessary changes to the exclusion policies, we will no longer use them after the licensing period ends in 9 months or so.

Now there are other significant issues I see with Carbonite, such as the time it takes for files to be restored, can take 30 minutes sometimes for a file of any size. Another issue is the restore procedures, if you make changes to a file and it is awaiting backup you can not restore a previous version at least from the context menus (right click), thus you must wait for the backup to complete before you can see if you even have a previous version.

Also knowing bandwith throughput would be great so we can estimate initial backup times.

And preserving the directory structure is an absolute necessity, again why would an empty folder not be backed up, its in the folder???

These are just a few of the major issue we see, many have already been noted above and in other posts.

But I will say the biggest issue is that of the exclusion polices, they must give users an option in the UI to backup EVERYTHING in the selected folders, as without this it is basically useless.

Lets see if Carbonite can step up and give power users the tools they need to continue working with this product, as it is pretty good already.

DP

DP

Yes ... I've experienced all of the behaviors you've mentioned. Let's not be naive. I feel as if we're dancing around the primary reason (or strategy) for eliminating some file types (like VOBs and EXEs for instance). When offering "unlimited backup", it might be beneficial to "limit" what might be considered excessive volume.

These files I'm having issues with are typically enormous. A normal DVD backup at least 4GB if not 9. Putting some fine print in the T&Cs around movies (et. al.) is a convenient way to avoid backing these up and thereby saving valuable space.

Also, as a an aside, since my earlier comments I have gone through a Restore. Many issues with files not restoring at all (I can't remember the error exactly, or even if there was one). It would simply finish and just tell me 31 files not restored and that was that. Non-recoverable, apparently.

For the moment, I've moved to SyncBack SE and local backups / syncs until I find a different online solution. MemoPal was looking promising, but have noticed similar inexplicable problems with their solution not backing up certain file types. Will probably try Mozy just because, but I've heard plenty of negative comments regarding it as well.

Remote Network Attached Storage may be the only viable solution for me.

--Dirk

You're certainly correct that the reason they have this maze of crazy rules about what's backed up and what's not is to save money on storage. In principle, however, I have no problem with Carbonite (or the others) trying to discourage people from uploading unnecessary files. No-one should be backing up their entire hard drive, because this would drive up costs for all the other customers (like us).

What I DO have a problem with is the way they're going about trying to limit "over-backupping". Ignoring files basically at random and not telling users what's going on when it happens is almost criminal, and is causing a lot of grief for a lot of people who were responsible enough to get a backup service in the first place. As someone pointed out in the thread above, it renders the service not only useless, but dangerous.

3 weeks, any movement from Carbonite?

DP, in an upcoming version you'll be able to override Carbonite's selections about which files to skip. If you explicitly select a folder for backup, everything in that folder and it's subfolders will be backed up - videos, .exe files, etc. I don't have a release date yet, but it's coming soon.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc

Carbonite did not backup videos of my children. They are lost now after a hard drive failure. I've been a subscriber for about two years, so the policy switch impacted me. When I started with Carbonite, video files were being backed up by default, but now they are excluded and are lost to me forever.

Apparently I would have been OK if I read all the release notes (the web site still says 3.6.1 is current, not 3.6.2 as installed - and release notes stop after 3.6), AND I went to every folder and file and said "backup videos".

The "set it and forget it" mantra is misleading. You need to be a lot more diligent about making sure your data is being backed up.

Try backing up a file with an underscore in the extension. You can't --- Carbonite says it contains invalid characters. Yet they promise that you can backup any file, even if it's excluded by default.

I could go on with examples of my support interactions. I have all the emails and chat transcripts. Honestly, I'm close to done with Carbonite. Once I find a better alternative, I'll likely move on.

If anyone has any recommendations for doing backups offsite (to avoid loss from fire or theft), please let us know.

Avoid Mozy!!! I used to use Mozy with a private key, but at some point in time Mozy changed the key it was using so when it came to restore my data I could not, not to mention that Mozy's full restore process is abysmal

I know the key I supplied mozy was good because I used the same key for other services without issue. Carbonite is not perfect, but so far I prefer it to mozy.

Still looking for the perfect online backup solution that wont cost an arm and a leg.

What a horrible "feature." I ended up here while searching Google for a dependable online backup system. Expecting users to read release notes and FAQs after the fact is crazy, and not allowing users to see which files are excluded via the UI is even more absurd.

I absolutely won't be choosing Carbonite after reading this thread.

I had also been using Carbonite for about 2 years and had it save my butt after a motherboard failure during the first year I had it. However when my hard drive went out in December when I went to restore to my horror I found that about 75% of my backed files were gone! 'file could not be found on Carbonite server'

It wasn't because of the type of file, the majority of files had just disappeared. No help at all from support. I tracked down Len that responded above and tried to reach him directly. I did get a friendly response but nothing else. I canceled the 2 subscriptions I had at end of January.

I ended up with memopal and its not perfect, but I love it. You pick what types you do or do not want to backup. You can search and access your files from anywhere over the web and share scratch copies with other people when you need too. Very powerful and very nicely priced. So far very happy with it. U might check it out. Good luck. memopal.com

I recently installed Carbonite and was going to purchase. I have noticed a lot of files with the 'green donut" beside them. I right click and it will not allow me to copy the complete file. i see that the promises made by carbonite over 11 months ago are still empty ones. I will go elsewhere for my backup.
Thanks guys for posting this.

Kip, when you say "it will not allow me to copy the complete file", do you mean that when you try to copy a file, you get an error message? For that matter, when you say "file", do you mean "folder"?

I'd be happy to have someone reach out to help you resolve this issue. Send me a note at Len.Pal @ carbonite.com with contact info and a good time to get in touch and I'll have someone work with you.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc.
www.carbonite.com

This is scary. We've been using Carbonite at work as our primary offiste backup source for sometime now. I just installed it on my home server and noticed sub-folders not getting picked up for backups because there was only exe files stored in them. Looking at this post it's clear that Carbonite has not made any changes towards adding even the back up file of this type option over a year ago. Adding Mac support in the last year seems to have taken priority over fixing a critical flaw in this setup. If I pick a folder to be backed up, BACK IT UP! All of it! Special characters are understandable system based limits, but underscores? Give me a frackin break. I have no other choice than to find another solution for work Monday because of that one goofy limit. Having to pick each individual video file? The limit on not backing up video files saying users requested this as the default is a crock. I understand the not auto selecting files over the 4 gig file size limit and that makes sense. If it's not over 4 gigs, back it up. Damn, gotta go check out Mozy and other options now.

I gave up on asking them to do exactly this. Its not difficult, its not even somewhat difficult. At any rate I totally agree, when I select a folder BACK EVERYTHING UP IN IT, no exceptions!

We have changed to iDrive for our 6 machines. And have since recommended our cleints, customers and friends use the same.

Major difference is open file support which Carbonite does not support, and a 150GB limit per machine where Carbonite has unlimited. Most other options and functionality are very similiar. Make sure to select the autosync function in iDirve or it will never delete any file it has ever backed up, basically autosync makes sure to remove backed up files 30 days after they have been deleted from the server or machine.

Carbonite advertised services that I accepted and paid for. Their services were not as advertised and were not what I purchased. I reasonably relied on their service as part of my disaster planning.

I suggest filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and with the Consumer Protection Division of the State Attorney General's Office for your respective states.

My complaints included screenshots of their website pages advertising their services, e-mail correspondence requesting clarification and confirmation prior to purchase, and e-mail correspondence with their customer service stating that the same service advertised on their website was not available.

I included links to this consumer forum and to other forums where multiple similar complaints have been listed. I also requested an elevated response; specifically, prosecution, because the service advertised was the service recommended for disaster planning compliance.

I do think that there is a strong need for accountability with this issue.

I have not been happy with Carbonite either. Several months ago, my laptop's screen went black. I bought a new laptop and was so happy that I had all my files backed up by Carbonite and could then restore them. I have tried 4 times to restore my files and the last time, it stopped on 33% and stayed there for weeks. I have tried to cancel the restore, but can't. I have some precious photos that have not been restored. I won't be renewing my Carbonite subscription.

I haven't read this entire comment thread (don't have time right now), so I don't know if Nick or anyone else with complaints about Carbonite are still using that service. Regardless, I do have a suggestion for Nick and those using it that will at least help somewhat.

I recently started a free trial of Carbonite and was, like Nick, very frustrated that MANY file types are not backed up by default. This has nothing to do with underscores in the filename, though. Regardless, I have thousands of fonts to back up and most of them are organized in folders bearing the name of the font family, under a folder bearing the first letter of the font family, under a folder bearing the style of the font (serif, modern, script, etc.), under a folder bearing the name of the font foundry.

Yes, they are many levels deep, but they're nicely organized, thanks to FontExpert. Since Carbonite does not back up any font files by default, the thought of clicking through hundreds of thousands of folders to mark each one to be backed up absolutely sickened me. Doing a little more digging online in their FAQ, however, I discovered a trick. I don't know if this works with all versions of their downloadable software, but you should probably upgrade to the latest version anyway if you don't already have it.

Navigate to a folder that contains a file of a type you KNOW Carbonite doesn't back up by default. Right-click on it and choose "Properties." A new tab will appear called "Carbonite." Go to that and, near the bottom are three checkboxes. The third is likely grayed-out and the first is the same as right-clicking on the file and choose Carbonite's "Back this up" item in the context menu. The second option is the magic one, for me: "Back up files of this type." This will make Carbonite backup all files with that extension from now on, provided that they reside in folders you've selected for backup.

Does this forgive Carbonite for not making this information easier to obtain? Not entirely. It took me a few hours to find it. It also doesn't excuse the fact that there should be a nice checklist of file types to be backed up in their downloadable program, probably as a third tab on their "Set Options" section. And lastly, they really need to give an option for backing up empty folders, provided that they reside in a folder that's already marked for backup.

So, yeah, Carbonite's software isn't perfect and they appear to have sacrificed giving customers more backup options in favor of making the software more "simple" for "simple-minded" people.

Thanks wildcatsigns. The "back up files of this type" feature is a small step in the right direction... I guess I'm not as tolerant as you, though, since I don't think Carbonite's policy has anything to do with simplifying the user experience. The simplest thing would be to back up everything in every folder that I flag for backing up, except for obvious system folders/files. Period.

The fact that they don't back up video files by default (often some of people's most sentimentally valuable files) shows that this is all about their bandwidth and storage costs, and has nothing to do with improving or simplifying the customer experience.

I'm still evaluating viable alternatives (someone in this thread recommends iDrive), and will be able to post my recommendations here soon. At this point, I'm leaning toward services that are not unlimited (have 50 GB, 150GB, etc. plans), but that at least back up everything you tell them to back up, and that have established a reputation for reasonably problem-free recoveries (unlike Carbonite, where horror stories of failed recoveries are common).