has the carmex formula changed recently?

I actually did a google search on carmex because i keep getting bad batches for the past several months and wanted to see if anybody else was having the same problem? I too like you have carmex everywhere...in my purse, dresser, desk, car and having been using it since i was 18 years old. I am now 42 and still addicted to it. I used to say it was better than anything on the market. But here lately i dont know if i can say that anymore. I use it constantly and my lips are still dry. Before as long as i used it daily, my lips would stay moist 24/7. I too was wondering if the formula has changed? Seems that the formula is a little drier? Maybe a bit waxier? I wrote to the company to find out but they ignored my email. Let me know if you have noticed this with your recent batches. Thanks. Hope something changes!

Hi Annie,

I actually did hear back from someone at Carmex. His name was Paul and he was very helpful. From what I was told, they keep samples from batches for up to 3 years, and I gave him the batch numbers on the side of my Carmex containers, and he had someone check them out. He said since the product is made of natural ingredients, that depending on storage, temperatures, etc...sometimes the lanolin will smell/taste different after a while. He said the batch numbers I gave him were ok (they checked them) and he actually sent me 2 replacement containers, which smelled/tasted like the Carmex I know and love! He kept me up to date on all that they were doing (like, ok, I'll forward these batch numbers to so and so, and then he wrote to say so and so was retesting them, etc...) I also bought the Cherry flavor, but it seems to be thinner than the original and not last as long. If I were you, I'd look for the original Carmex with the new packaging. You'll know it's brand new and hasn't been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a year. I don't know if I still have Paul's email, but if I do, I can forward it on to you.
Jo Beth

Hi Annie.

First, I apologize for your not receiving a reply to your earlier email. Years ago it was easy for me to reply to all of the regular (snail) mail but the volume of email has increased to the point where we had to put an auto reply message in place to let folks know that they weren't being ignored. The emails are then stored and when my assistant Wendy and I have a bit of time we gradually work through the emails.

I can assure that we have not changed the formula. It is still based on my grandfather's original 1930s formula. However, because a good portion of the ingredients are natural there are variations from batch to batch (We make Carmex in 1,000 gallon batches.) Also, we have a new flavor provider. Carmex's formula includes a tiny bit of flavor/scent which is in there to help hide the bitterness of the vanillin and menthol. Our old flavor supplier changed their formula a bit so we are working with a new supplier. The new fragrance supplier's version does not have the bitterness that the older supplier’s did. The new fragrance has a slightly more "floral" note which you might be sensing. Another thing that can cause the ointment to seem different is temperature. We are in Wisconsin and if I use one of the sticks in my car they will be hard and waxy until the stick warms up.

With regard to Jo Beth's observation that the cherry tubes (I believe) are a bit thinner than the original tubes - this could well be true. The cherry flavoring is delivered as an oil and by adding a bit of this flavored oil to the original formula it did become a little thinner. The very first cherry tube batch was clearly too thin. We remedied this by adding a bit more of the harder waxes.

If you write me a brief note reminding me of this email along with your address I'd be happy to send you some samples from our most recent production to try.

Thanks for caring and writing.

Best wishes,

Paul

Thank you Jo Beth. I appreciate your response. Also appreciate that Paul took the time out of im am sure his incredibly busy days to write back to me. I do now feel valued as a 20 year customer. I go through so many little pots of carmex its almost ridiculous! lol I have one on my desk, dresser, purse, cosmetic bag, and car. And i use it all the time. Hopefully i will start having better luck with it. He explained about the temperature changes and about the new fragrance provider. He is sending me some samples of the new formulas. Crossing my fingers. Thanks again!
Annie

I have also noticed a huge difference with the Containers of Carmex. I have purchsed this for years and was amazed how well it worked. I never found the tube workd as well. The last 4 purchases of the containers just didn't seem right. I was getting chapped lips again and the container contents just seemed softer then normal. Thought I was crazy until I found an old jar. They are different and it's horrible.

It is not just your imagination. Paul from carmex labs wrote to me to let me know that they did switch companies, they are using someone different for the fragrance of the carmex. Its definitely more than just the fragrance which has changed though. The consistency is different. I never used the cherry flavor. And the tubes just do not work the same. Paul said he would send me a couple samples of the new batches but i never heard from him again. :(
hopefully something will change. I like you, find it rather disappointing!

Oh well, that's interesting. I think the new company is taking some short cuts. I'm very disapointed as well.

Oh well, that's interesting. I think the new company is taking some short cuts. I'm very disapointed as well.

Hi Tanya.

Thanks for writing with your concern. I see that several other people have already replied to your question of a couple of hours ago. It makes me very happy to see that people write with both compliments and complains. Both situations mean that we have customers who care. I see some
thread of discussion about a "new company" and I apologize for not know what this is referring to. I can tell you with absolute certainty that we; me, my dad and my brother still own 100% of Carma Laboratories with no outside investors. We like it this way because if we were to take on
outsiders or sell the company they certainly would make changes, any number of which would not be in the best interest of the product or our long time employees.

So, to address your specific question, when you say that the containers have changed if you are referring to the graphics, that's true. As a small family owned business we sometimes did things in practical ways. For example when we came out with a new product such as the squeeze tubes
in 1987 and the sticks in about 1999 we simply asked the package suppliers to, "Make it look like the old jar graphics." Over the course of many years the graphics were starting to look dissimilar.So, we hired a marketing/graphics group to work on making all of the packaging look related. A part of this involved turning the red CARMEX flag on it's side and to make it more prominent.

If you are concerned about a change in the formula, other than removing the alum listing quite few years ago, the formula remains exactly the same as my grandfathers's formula from the 1930s. The tubes start out with the jar formula to which a bit of mineral oil is added to make it thinner (so you can get it out of the tube). The sticks also start with the jar formula but include a wax with a higher melting temperature so that the ointment can hold it's stick shape. Differences in hardness (between the same form of packaging) are usually related to the ambient temperature of the product, i.e. if it's cooler it will be harder and if it is warmed up it will become softer. I
assure - really - we have not cut the quality or percentages of the ingredients. If anything the quality of what we are purchasing now is better than those from when my grandfather invented the product. Cutting corners would be like shooting ourselves in the foot. If you send me a note
reminding me of this question I'd be happy to send you several samples from the most recent production to try. My address is:

Carma Labs.
Attn: Paul
5801 West Airways Avenue
Franklin, WI 53132.

Best wishes,

Paul Woelbing, President
Carma Labs.

Hi Annie.

I see from your reply that you did not get a promised replacement. Did you send the note to me with your address so that I could? Not trying to sound as though I am bragging but I am really good about replying to customer mail. I apologize for your not receiving anything yet. It is possible htat your note got lost in the mail. Please send me another one so that I can send the promised replacements. The reason that I ask for a snail-mail note is because in the past when I've asked people to reply via email I've been inundated with requests from people posing as the the original peron with the question.

My address is:

Carma Labs.
Attn: Paul
5801 West Airways Avenue
Franklin, WI 53132

Again, I apologize for your not getting the promised replacements.

Paul Woelbing, President
Carma Labs.

I hope you can see the difference. The left one is more shiny the right is less shiny. The right one is my old jar (good), the left one is the new jar (not good). I am sending samples of these into Carmex, I know they are different.

Hi Tanya.

I appreciate your including the photograph.It's a bit unclear in this image. The one on the left appears to be a little darker but in the photograph it might be a result of a shadow. That said, perhaps there is a difference. We use natural lanolin and it can vary slightly in color and odor.
If you send the samples to me I'd be happy to have our Chemist Claudio examine them and let you know what he finds.

Paul

My pleasure. As soon as it arrives Claudio (head chemist) will take a look at it. Just out of curioscity, how much older is the one? When jars are years old the lanolin seems to darken which I suspect is a result of oxidation. Please be sure to include your address so that I can send you replacements.

Paul

I'm just wondering if that more medicine-y smell/taste are gone, now? I'm running out of my older tube of (good) Carmex. I need to get another tube/jar and I'm hoping that I'm not going to be getting the same strong medicinal flavor/smell from the new ones I buy.

Thanks.

Hi Stephanie.

Thanks for writing. You've written an interesting question. We have two people (Don and Lisa) whose jobs are exclusively purchasing the ingredients and packaging that goes into making Carmex. They have worked closely with our suppliers providing them with very specific qualities for everything we buy, focusing particularly closely on the ingredients. The formulas for the original jars (1937) and tubes (1987) remain the same as when my grandfather developed them but because of slight differences in the constituent ingredients, over the years the flavor and scent of the final product have varied a bit.

Carmex's flavor and scent comes primarily from the menthol, camphor, vanillin, lanolin and fragrance. When my grandfather originally created the jar formula in the 1930s the smell of lanolin (which is a natural ingredient derived from sheep's wool) could range from almost odorless to something like that of a wet dog. I believe that because of this he added Carmex’s now signature fragrance to help hide the sometimes unpleasant lanolin's odor with a more pleasant one. In seventy two years we have gone through a number of fragrance suppliers due to their going out of business, etc. and because of this the fragrance seems to have changed a bit as one supplier was asked to copy the product of a previous supplier. We have recently made it our priority to get back to Carmex's original scent and flavor. To do this we have located the oldest remaining sample of Carmex that we could find (a jar from my grandfather's desk drawer) and have it analyzed by the fragrance house which can identify all of the pleasant components that went into making the original fragrance and compensate for the unpleasant odor of the old oxidized ingredients.

The most recent sample with a "new" original fragrance is very promising and smells like what I remember from when I was young. If you would be willing to, I'd like to send you some samples to compare and get your feedback. If you would, please send me a note reminding me of this email and provide me with your address so that I can send you some samples to try. My address is:

Carma Labs.
Attn: Paul
5801 West Airways Avenue
Franklin, WI 53132

Best wishes,

Paul Woelbing, President
Carma Laboratories, Inc.

I know exactly what you mean about the carmex smelling and tasting a little chemically..However thats not the problem i had with carmex>>about 5 months ago i wrote a letter to the carmex company informing them about the faulty carmex i had purchased and i havent even heard a reply!
Like all of you, i LOVE carmex...i take it EVERYWHERE but the carmex i purchased had a HUGE hole in the middle when i put my finger on it to take a swab meaning that it wasnt very good value to money.
Paul from the carmex company seems to be very nice and so i have emailed him about it and i hope the email has a better outcome then the letter i sent!!
Anyway, i do hope carmex goes back to normal soon : (
Emily