Custom categories as open-source?
I know there's a huge desire here for custom categories. One of the main things I hear from the DM teams is that you guys don't want to do things in an unfinished form, and that with only one programmer, you can get quite bogged down in the details.
How about a perfect synergy between you and your passionate customers? Allow custom categories, and allow users to create their own databases. If someone works for a wine company, let them add their own barcodes. If someone has their own collection, allow DL2 to recognize the barcodes as unidentified. As soon as a user identifies the wine and adds all the necessary details, add that data to a central server so that all users can benefit.
A great example of this open-source power would be the way Google Earth has allowed custom overlays. So, for example, for a while there was an overlay showing everyone where in darfur people were being killed, and the numbers. This really got a point across, and the best part of it was that google was freed from having to do all the work.
People get very passionate about software, especially when they feel that they can make it their own. You already have an extremely active customer base on getsatisfaction, but just imagine the passion of people who could add their own touch to your program. Think of it not as how myspace turned into a siezure-inducing poor design frenzy, but instead how apple has used iphone apps to massively increase their customer demand and revenue without having to spend a penny
Add functionality to your program, for free, and let your customers help you with all the work!
How about a perfect synergy between you and your passionate customers? Allow custom categories, and allow users to create their own databases. If someone works for a wine company, let them add their own barcodes. If someone has their own collection, allow DL2 to recognize the barcodes as unidentified. As soon as a user identifies the wine and adds all the necessary details, add that data to a central server so that all users can benefit.
A great example of this open-source power would be the way Google Earth has allowed custom overlays. So, for example, for a while there was an overlay showing everyone where in darfur people were being killed, and the numbers. This really got a point across, and the best part of it was that google was freed from having to do all the work.
People get very passionate about software, especially when they feel that they can make it their own. You already have an extremely active customer base on getsatisfaction, but just imagine the passion of people who could add their own touch to your program. Think of it not as how myspace turned into a siezure-inducing poor design frenzy, but instead how apple has used iphone apps to massively increase their customer demand and revenue without having to spend a penny
Add functionality to your program, for free, and let your customers help you with all the work!
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Inappropriate?Sam- This is definitely a cool idea, but would of course take a lot of work. I'm not sure what direction Wil is going in for DL3.0 yet (it's still a bit off in the future), but I can add this to our feature requests folder. We don't want to delve too far into the customizable track, because when something is too customizable, it can get chaotic and confusing, but adding some ability to customize is not out of the question. And we are always interested in hearing alternative database options.
Thanks for your feedback!
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I'm really happy to hear some positive consideration on this. I'm sure managing the chaos could be dealt with though.
For example, if you look at wikipedia, people were highly critical for a while about it's inaccuracies, but studies have actually shown less errors in wikipedia than published encyclopedias. The whole point of open source is that it allows collaboration with limits and rules. In wikipedia's case, this means setting up accounts and having designated moderators who keep everything tidy.I don't see why some sort of appointment system couldn't keep everything in check. -
Inappropriate?I agree with Sam. I really like Delicious Monster. It does some things really well. But the problem is that I want one cataloging app for all my stuff. I'm not a programmer, but it seems like everything is there for custom categories, all the fields and info source (Amazon sells just about everything known to man). If grabbing product information online is problematic for custom categories, it could be cut out. It could be a strictly manual database. As it stands, I feel caught between a Delicious Monster (easy of use/convenience) and a Bento (a place for every item under the sun).
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Though Bento and Delicious Library are both essentially database applications, they are meant to serve completely different purposes. While Bento provides you with templates to build your own database, DL2 gives you a very structured way of importing information from an existing database. Of course we could add more customizable features, but that would also make it less convenient and easy to use. Plus, the more options we add, the more it becomes like Bento-- and why make another Bento-like product if Bento is already out, and works great? I guess you could then want something halfway between Bento and DL2, but I think that's what Bento was supposed to be... the easy/consumer-level version of FileMaker.
Having such a close spectrum of options is something you can more easily find on the Windows platform because of the market saturation. But I think the more you get, the more you compromise quality. So while being caught between DL2 and Bento may be a tough decision, at least you'll be choosing between two awesome products instead of five sketchy ones.
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Inappropriate?Well, I respectfully disagree. DL2 is not as easy an convenient to use because it does not allow customization. I would much rather have Books, Movie, Software and Other and be able to import anything that Amazon carries than have to go from category to category seeing if DL2 recognizes the item I'm searching for and categorizes it appropriately. Neither Final Cut Pro nor Adobe Creative Suite 3 were recognized as software (gadget and toy respectively). To get those into Software, DL2 support section says basically create a blank item and copy the details in. How about just changing the category?
DL2 doesn't have to duplicate Bento's feature set. I don't buy the feature creep argument. All it needs is an Other category. It's not like the existing categories are wholesale different from each other. The all have the same basic fields. If I could create my own categories, great. But I'd settle for two things: a kitchen sink (Other) category and the ability to change the category of an item.
That's it. I don't need 15 templates. I don't need to pull in data from my Address Book or iCal. I don't need to throw it up on a server for 15 people to contribute to. (I also don't need to see what's in iTunes, since I'm quite happy using it, but that's another story). So I don't think DM needs to take notes on Filemaker's feature set for DL3.
BTW, I have no idea where Windows came into the picture, either. Although, the response sounds a little like the "grin and bear it" response I would come expect from that platform. -
Inappropriate?Right, in terms of this Bento-vs-DL debate, first off it's slightly off topic on the open source theme of the thread.
However, I think it's something that pops up in the forum and everyone should be a lot more clear on.
When it comes to doing anything that could be conceived as replicating Bento features, I think there needs to be some clarification. First of all, Bento is NOTHING like DL. If you take a look at this list, you'll see that hardly any of these features are ones that users are requesting, even in terms of customization: http://www.filemaker.co.uk/products/b...
For example, no one wants to use DL to keep track of dieting, classes, car mileage, or to-do items. To claim so is completely off base.
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Great now that that's out of the way, the issue of feature creep on other programs, even if they're not Bento.
Let's say you made phones, and apple came out with the iphone. Any company that failed to learn anything from the iphone would just be kidding itself that it would be 'compromising' by incorporating features. There's nothing wrong from seeing others success and learning from it. Especially if you can do it better, which I think you guys can. Your original program was ground-breaking. If you keep it more or less the same though, you're going to lose interest, and you're going to lose potential customers. One of the huge selling points for your app is word of mouth. If you don't keep innovating, people are going to stop talking about you, and no-one will want to pay for any upgrades to DL3. There are already enough people on here who want to downgrade to DL1. You should pay attention to that. Make positive changes that listen to your customer base, and you'll see you made the right choice. End rant.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Cfasa: When I refer to DL2 being convenient, I mean it in the way that it doesn't require you to manually enter in the information as Bento would require.
The reason that items are categorized incorrectly is because as Amazon builds its database, their own categories tags change sometimes to accommodate more specific categories, and then DL2 gets confused when it sees an item with the different tags. For these things, we try to keep an eye out for what starts getting mis-categorized (such as the Nintendo Wii recently) so it doesn't keep on getting dumped into the wrong shelf. However, if things do end up in the wrong place, you can easily change their category by editing the "item type" category in details.
I only brought up the stuff with windows, because some of the applications on the other side are infamous for throwing in tons of unjustified features and really messing up the user interface because of it. This is not to say that your feature requests are unjustified-- I think an "Others" category is completely reasonable and a definite possibility for the next version of Delicious Library. We just like to very very carefully consider every feature we add because (1) If we implement a new feature, we want to think it through all the way and make sure it's right for the program and (2) Once you add a feature, you can't really take it away. You had mentioned Bento in your post, which is meant to work for WAY more stuff than DL2, and I didn't really know how much "customization" you wanted before.
Luckily, adding customizable tags is something we are planning on doing in the future, it's just going to be a big database change within Delicious Library and for our iPhone app. There's more brainstorming going on with that idea, and it will most likely be a feature in DL3.
I understand if you may disagree with some of the things I said. I wasn't trying to pick an argument or anything, but just try to explain why we aren't going to go in the direction of Bento.
Sam: We continually add features to the program (added a lot in DL2) and of course we plan on doing the same or DL3. It's still in a very conceptual phase right now, as we are trying to do more with the iPhone (and hash out the bugs in DL2), but we are always open to ideas for the future version. It doesn't all go as fast as some people want, since we only have one engineer working for the company right now, but we work on this stuff every single day, and read through hundreds of feature requests every week. There are a lot that we like, and a lot that would be cool but wouldn't work in our program. While listening to the customer base is always a good thing to do, adding *every* requested feature would ultimately end in disaster. We want to keep people happy, but there will never be something that will be 100% loved by everyone. Because of that, we try and do what *most* people will like, and hope that is enough!
Let me know if you have any other questions/concerns to raise, and I will be glad to respond.
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this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Thanks Jessie for the response. I appreciate it. Sorry it I came off a bit strong or harsh. It's a classic case of miscommunication— I responded to Sam's custom categories but glossed over the open source part, which I think is what you first picked up on—so I completely started things. Sorry, Sam, about hijacking your thread and, Jessie, for muddying the waters.
DL2 is solid. I like it a lot. And always when you like software, you begin seeing ways to use it, some of which is outside its current scope.
Here's some background why I arrived at this thread and responded strongly/ I tend to be a fast help checker, it's sometimes the quickest way to learn an app. I needed to fix a couple of miscategorized items. And when I went to the DM help site, I came across this post on a search for "item type" (http://delicious-monster.com/help.php...), basically telling me no dices. Thanks for letting me know that item type is editable (after you replied, I finally found it.).
Thanks! -
No worries cfasca, I just wanted to make sure things didn't go too far sideways. I'm glad to have your input! If you've got more thoughts, by all means keep them coming!
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