Tom
sad I’m confused

Roads Are Not Venues!!

Can Superusers close roads? People shouldn't be allowed to check in on highways (I-95 Beltway 695 etc...)!
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  • Dennis Crowley
    5
    Hey sometimes people do to check in to traffic. Hey, why not?
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  • joesiewert
    Yeah, I was reading about a driving app called Waze that looks like it has some check-in integration with Foursquare for reporting driving conditions. Cool.

    http://thedreaminaction.com/2009/12/2...
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  • Daryl
    7
    Foursquare's description on the homepage:
    We'll help you meet up with your friends and let you earn points and unlock badges for discovering new places, doing new things and meeting new people.

    - - - - -- - - - -- - - - -

    Am I supposed to meet up with friends on a highway?
    • Daryl's got a damn good point. I joined Foursquare because it seemed like a fun social game, but discovered that apparently don't care if people are wrecking the game by using Foursquare as a second-rate Brightkite.

      This seems like disingenuous behavior by the Foursquare team. Advertise themselves as one thing (and let blogs like Techcrunch and Mashable advertise for them as such), while letting people do something completely different. Is Foursquare really that hard up for traffic that it doesn't care at all what people do here?
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  • relsr
    4
    Right in the FAQ.
    Q: What type of places are allowed and which should I close?

    A: We see people checking into all sorts of places - their office, their homes, their dorms, etc. We'd rather you not "close" any places unless they're bars / cafes' that have gone out of business. The exception is when people create venues for places that just don't exist - e.g. "Happytime USA", "I hate my boss", "On the beach" - those you are free to close. But as for all the other weird scenarios - people checking-in at subway stations, or on the Manhattan Bridge, or while on a Virgin Atlantic flight - let's keep them!
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  • Elliott Plack
    indifferent I’m indifferent
    4
    Some people that check in on roads may enjoy that aspect of the game and not care about who is the mayor of their local Starbucks. It works both ways. Remember that road mayorships are up for grabs, just like any other place.
    • You're kidding, right? I thought the whole point to foursquare was to encourage swarms -places where people can get together, announce the get together, and connect. The entire NYS Thruway is listed as a venue, and at the same tiem, half the time the foursquare gps shows me on another continent - and yes, it's them, because my gmap and navigator apps are accurate. It's not fun if it's stupid, and it's not useful either.
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  • John Corey
    silly I’m amused
    Checking in to a location makes sense in many cases. The people who object based on safety are assuming people are driving. While walking around London I have noticed that people have checked in to locations that are not businesses yet they could easily be meeting places. A few of the bridges are tourist attractions so they are a destination even if they are a road.

    I think it is mature for Foursquare to stay out of the issue. Drivers should know that they need to follow the law when using electronic devices in a vehicle. Some of the people checking in on a road in a vehicle could be on a bus or otherwise not driving.

    I suspect the safety issue is a minor point that has little impact to most people. Rather than ban roads from checkins it just makes sense to depend on the users to be intelligent about the rules and regulations when on the road.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    sad I’m Livid, dumbfounded, frustrated, confused and let down
    2
    So that means that if I travel in downtown Chicago, in my car, on 50 streets on the way to work - which I do - I should be able to rack up points for 50 locations in 1 hour? And the first time get new venue points and first time visit points? And then subsequent travel points each time I commute both in the morning and afternoon? Because if I can, according to you, check in on Interstate 95, then I can certainly do what I just suggested. You said so. By the way, I'd never do that because I think it's ridiculous. I'm bothered that this is an employee response. I'd never go along with this if I worked for Foursquare. It's absolutely gaming the system in the worst way possible.

    No disrespect intended toward anyone but there's playing the game and playing the system. I recently saw someone check into a chair. How does one continue to play and support that? I think, at the very least, that there should be check in options that don't award points. Check in to your hearts content but don't make it so I can't possibly win because I refuse to check into a chair or because I don't travel on 50 roads. Or because I refuse to check in to a place I walk past and don't actually enter. Seems as though these types of problems should be clearly marked cheating and they aren't. The road issue is really troubling.
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    • Elliott isn't actually an employee of Foursquare. He's a forum moderator, but GetSatisfaction hasn't released their "helper" role yet, so Elliott gets tagged as an employee.
    • You can check-in about every 10 or 15 minutes. So as long as you have a gps fix, you can check in and name anything, fire hydrant, light pole - does it make sense? nope. is it stupid? yep. is it in my opinion, point and mayorship kiting and cheating? in my opinion, yes. but if foursquare says it's ok, it's their app, so we get to play by their rules.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    1
    Totally agree, John. Checking it at Abbey Road or the Manhattan Bridge makes perfect sense - those are destinations. But allowing checkins on a highway you drive on as this original topic brings up is the part I'm very not cool with.
    • Completely agreeing on the bad driving issues.

      Minor soapbox coming up.

      FourSquare cannot prevent bad behavior or stop people from breaking the law if they are driving and using a mobile phone. If someone is a passenger on a bus and there is some other reason why checking in makes sense, so be it. I would rather see a simple set of rules and not worry about fringe issues. It is mostly about competing with friends or finding people. If two want to meet on the highway and discuss how they are going to rule as alternative mayors they can go off into their corner and have the debate.

      The way I see it there is little harm done to the reset of us if people are mayor of a road.
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  • Colby Trudeau
    1
    Scott is right. A historical road or bridge, something that's a tourist attraction or a destination should be a venue. An interstate, should not be. Especially since you can't check in on an Interstate if the GPS marker is on the other side of the country. You'd have to make a duplicate venue and it gets messy.
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  • relsr
    sad
    Seriously?! This is 6 months old. I'm tired of getting updates. Drop it!
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  • kiafidoy
    silly I’m Amused
    @ angel
    Actually, according to Governors Highway Safety Association, only 6 states ban all handheld use of cell phones while driving. (As of June 2010--when Washington's tightening of anti-cell phone laws go into place)

    23 states ban any cell phone use by novice drivers.

    21 states ban texting while driving, but only 15 of those make it a primary offense--in other words, you have to be violating the law in some other way such as speeding before you can be pulled over for using your phone.

    @ relsr
    Sorry for the update. ;) It's been only 3 months though...btw.
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  • reyhanypohan
    silly I’m unsure
    I agree with you Tom, roads are not venue. Besides the safety problem, there are also a lot of problems with checking-in a road venue, such as there are no exact pin-point location of a road. A road is a line, rather than a dot. That's why there are a lot of duplicates on road venue.

    But if Foursquare does continue with the road venue idea, I'd like to share an idea.

    Multiple Pin-Point for Road Venue.
    http://getsatisfaction.com/foursquare...
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  • Andrew S.
    1
    Also, roads inherently have no address as they are the basis for addresses. How are they supposed to be marked in the database?
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  • reyhanypohan
    sad I’m frustrated with road venues!
    3
    Close all road venues! They just cause a lot of problems, like duplicates! If you finally merged them, new ones will just appear. Doesn't this duplicate problem affect the database for the long term?
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  • Tom Andrews
    I don't know. I-395 in DC is only about 10 miles long. Its a very specific thing. Many Many people creep along it every morning and afternoon. I saw it listed one morning.....While on the Bus mind you....so I checked in. There were several others checked in there too. I thought that was cool. I didn't get to meet or become lifelong friends with any of them. But it was cool to know there were others at that moment in the same traffic I was in.
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  • Eric Z.
    2
    I've got an idea.

    Let's create a new venue for every mile marker on the highway!

    I'm on I-95, mile marker 221.2! — http://foursquare.com/venue/5397231
    I'm on I-95, mile marker 221.4! — http://foursquare.com/venue/5397255
    I'm on I-95, mile marker 221.6! — so on...
    I'm on I-95, mile marker 221.8! — and so forth...
    I'm on I-95, mile marker 222.0!

    /sarcasm — Get rid of roads as venues. Period. It creates way too many problems and way too many duplicates.
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  • Tom Andrews
    silly
    Don't be ridiculous. Obviously no one is doing that. And if they are, then they are obviously cheating. But there is plenty of reason why a road works as a checkable area. First of all. Many check in spots along Route 66 would be right. How about Lombard St. in San Francisco? Hollywood Blvd.? Park Avenue? These are places unto themselves.

    I stand by checking in on i-395 in DC. Its a thing unto itself, and everyone who lives here understands the necessary pain that it is to travel that road at rush hour. And its nice to know that other people in the cars around you are feeling the same as you.
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  • Mike Rash
    silly I’m silly
    I check in at roads and bridges, in fact every bridge I cross on the way home, I check into and am the mayor of. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge (http://foursquare.com/venue/266825) gets tons of check ins, as it is a main route to Ocean City, MD. There is also a fierce mayorship battle for Riva Rd. in Annapolis, with 5 people going after mayorship of a popular intersection.

    Roads are venues, as are traffic jams. Mile markers, cheating like anything.
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  • matt
    sad I’m frustrated
    The only reason I see that someone should be checking into a road is if they're it's their destination. I'd much rather see everyone one checking into the block (or road dependent on length) that they live on than each individual putting their house or grandma's house on foursquare, this way there's more competition for mayor.
    Bridges are landmarks, some intersections are landmarks, but a whole road, eh, not to many are. If you're not planning to stay there a while and have people meet you there don't put it as a place to check-in. Same goes for having whole cities listed, it's unhelpful and unneeded.
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  • Edward Yerke-Robins
    indifferent I’m thinking we should fix the system, not blow it up.
    Here in L.A., there's a huge car culture, much of which is centered on the many freeways connecting various areas. There are different stereotypes, visual sites and yes, activities, based on which freeway/area you're currently in. I'd be much more interested to find out what a friend of mine is doing on the 710 than what he's doing at a 7-11.

    That being said, there shouldn't be a dozen check-in's for a single stretch of pavement. No matter how many miles it goes. My wife obtained the "Crunked" badge her first day, simply by gleefully checking into the half-dozen permutations of the 14 whilst I drove to her mother's.

    (PS: since she sends her updates to Twitter, and her Twitter updates her Facebook, and her mother followers her on Facebook, this was a very handy way for her mother to know what time we were coming in.)
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  • I hate kicking around an 8 month old thread, but oh well.

    I'm very torn on roads and highways as venues. On one hand, I say no. Unless you actually stop at the location, it is not a venue. One could argue that by that logic, I could drive past my local 7-11 and check-in at it, simply because its on my way to work.

    On the other hand, I do check-in on bridges (Key Bridge, Chesapeake Bay Bridge). Now I like to tell myself those are different, hey their bridges. But at the same time, they aren't my destination, so that belief contradicts my statement above.

    So maybe I'm ok with key landmarks checking in while driving. But certainly not ok with every road. (ie: just checked in on I97, just checked in on 695, just checked in on Route 10.)

    But I can't be on both sides of the fence. So when it comes down to it, I would say no to roads, no to highways, intersections, and no to bridges.

    Foursquare definitely hasn't helped the issue. They have a Highway/Traffic category. Their definition of a venues is: "A venue on foursquare is any place of business, physical location, or private residence where users can check-in."

    So vague. But as much as some of us do not think roads and intersections should be venues, they are "physical locations". So I think they are here to stay.
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  • John Corey
    silly I’m amused
    Josh raises some good points.

    How about the two as local examples for me. London Bridge and Tower Bridge. Both are places to meet. Both are bridges. Both are iconic and therefore destinations in their own right. Both are traversed by cars, busses, bicycles and pedestrians who really are not intending to stop or meet.

    Is this like pornography where a judge says he knows it when he sees it?

    We can create a rule that screens out some sites that are valid while screening in others that are not valid. Maybe it will come down to signal vs noise. Is there a way for individuals to just ignore destinations they do not think are destinations? Does being inclusive hurt those who want to be more restrictive?
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  • I think at the end of the day, if you don't want to a road or highway to be a venue, just don't check-in to it. I don't. Bridges and such, yes, I do. But I ignore all the rest of the clutter. But that's just how I play the game.

    Like Edward said above, there is a huge car culture in LA. I don't know what that means. But if that means when him and his friends play the game, they want to check-in on roads and such, have at it. It's not really hurting me.

    At the end of the day, all this debate and arguing of one point or the other is just us wanting to make people see our point of view. We want them to see and play the game as we see it. But why? If Edward in LA checks-in to every road on his way home from work, how is that hurting me over in Maryland. Even if he was in Maryland, it wouldn't hurt me.

    Its obviously not outside the rules. So lets just let everyone play the game how they enjoy playing the game. :)

    Who knows. Maybe one day we will see an app with a "Places" tab and a "travel" app. Where they are separated completely. I know. I just blew your mind!
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  • Street Meat Steve (SU2)
    sad I’m pissed
    Personally, I don't think roads should be venues. As the whole point of Foursquare is to get out and meet up with your friends. However, as I know very well -- most of the time, startups like this abandon their original premise and turn their product into something else.

    Either way, the real problem is VENUES. I don't care if there's a venue for I-95 and a bunch of morons want to check into it.

    I care when there are TWENTY venues for I-95.

    This is the problem with foursquare. If the team does not figure out a way to deal with sub-venues and the ridiculous amount of duplicates -- it's done.
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  • Beth (SU2)
    I've already posted my thoughts in another blog about this.
    IT IS STUPID. & dangerous.

    Especially when there are 34 different "venues" for ONE interstate. & that is only in ONE state. What about the interstates that go across the country.

    It is hard to check into an interstate/highway venue when you don't know which one is "the right one".

    I don't have a GPS phone, so I use the search feature & it brings up WAYYYY too many interstate venues. How do I know which one I am on.

    I don't like doing it. I think it's stupid. & I am a big 4square-er. BUT if this is going to be allowed, maybe I should just start checking into these "venues".

    Maybe addresses should be REQUIRED for ALL venues. So they can be checked & know that they are real. That way the "In my Chair" or "Giant Lady" venues will decrease (but not go away...)

    Shouldn't even be an option...
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  • Vyrtual
    sad I’m confused
    What about tunnels people? Checkin or no checkin???
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    Disagree 100%. Venues have fixed addresses like 123 Main Street. You can't check into a bridge, tunnel, highway, etc.
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  • Vyrtual
    sad I’m confused
    So you would say that the Statue of Liberty is a venue or not? It ́s on an island. It has a zip code, but no street name and no number.
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  • Harjit (SU2)
    I believe in almost anything, people should use some common sense. Off course some roads locations are landmarks and have some significant value and history, therefore adding them as venues would be ideal. But, adding mile markers or just a stretch of road with no rhyme or reason would be inappropriate.
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  • Vyrtual
    By the way, what about toll booths, plazas, stations, etc? Are they venues?
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    Brooklyn bridge is fine. Statue of Liberty is too. I stand corrected - I'd say the Lincoln Tunnel is fine. My problem is when I see John checked into Interstate 95. Or Joe checked into a cab.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    And the cab thing happens in Chicago ALL THE TIME! Last time it snowed, 50 people earned a sworn badge for checking into the "Lake Michigan snowstorm." It just ruins the game for me and the people that I'm sure actually care. It's actually why I quit using Foursquare and switched to Gowalla and SCVNGR.
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  • Well, Scott. Sorry to see you go, since you stated you quit foursquare and switched to another service.

    Remember, this is foursquare, not Joshsquare, or Brettsquare. Foursquare likes social venues like Snowpocalypse. In NYC around Christmastime, over 65,000 people checked into the official Snowpocalypse site in NYC. Thats a big deal. Thats more check-ins in 24 hours than many of the "biggest" venues.

    If it ruins the game for you, i'm sorry to hear that. Personally, it doesnt bother me, or effect the way I play the game.

    But, this isnt something thats going to change anytime soon.
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  • Vyrtual
    What about streets, avenues, passages, alleys? Are they venues as well?
    • view 3 more comments
    • If none of us are the absolute authority on the subject then who is?
    • Bottom line... Pretty much anything is a venue except "junk venues"... Bathrooms, individual seats at a stadium, "i'm on a plane", "i'm stuck in traffic", etc, are all junk venues and are not valid.

      I think we all know what constitute a valid venue and what doesnt. If you have any doubt, its probably valid.

      If you have a specific question as to what is valid, ask it here. There will never be an absolute list. This is an ever-changing service. Black & White doesnt exist.
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  • Vyrtual
    Brett, that ́s my point.

    How come a street 3km long can be a venue?

    If I have a 20km road, where shoud the pin be located so the user would located it using the GPS as soon as he/she starts 4sq?

    In its website 4sq says that a venue is: "A venue on foursquare is any physical location, such as a place of business or private residence where users can check in, win badges, and fight over mayorships!

    While all of these types of venues can be created and claimed on foursquare, please note that special offers will only be approved for consumer-facing places of business."

    So, I have to say that a road, by 4sq standards is not a venue.

    Do you have any oficial word from 4sq. Because so far I ́ve been only reading SUs ́ opinion. A opinion which I desagree. And the problem is, if it ́s not black & white, one can choose not to consider roads a venue, and for that, ask this venues to be deleted. The problem is that if the SU doesn ́t agree the request won ́t be done.

    I have no doubts about roads. To me they are not venues as per 4sq states. So, I wonder from where the idea that roads are venues came from. Did anyone claim a road as a business yet?

    Cheers
    • view 3 more comments
    • "A venue on foursquare is any physical location, such as a place of business or private residence where users can check in, win badges, and fight over mayorships!"

      Well, in English, "such as" is another word for "examples". Examples are businesses or private residences. Examples are not exclusive. They are just examples.

      You're not going to get some Fist-Pounded answer from the official foursquare Gods here.

      If you're looking for one. Dennis Crowley is the founder of foursquare. Above he says, "traffic" is acceptable. Is that enough proof?

      We don't make the rules, but we've been around long enough to explain them to people. Thats the idea. But, honestly, your choice. Don't believe me. Keep debating this. I've done what I can to help explain this. Try tweeting 4sqsupport if you'd like. Its their direct support line. See if you can get an answer on it.... (and trust me, its going to be the same one I gave you).
    • So if god himself said that traffic is ok, why do you insist that roads are venues? The traffic is the venue then, not the road. Is it a physical location?
      Interesting enough we didn ́t see any example such as roads, streets, trees or alikes.

      Anyway, the problem with SUs is always the same. Ypu are stuck with just one thought and you don ́t want to move on. Maybe is too much trouble. Well, the job is out of love.

      Maybe Denis we come to earth some day and say something about.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    Good to know, Brett. I'd type more but I need to go check into this bucket of chicken. I'm happy that according to your logic outlined above that it is a valid venue - it is a big bucket. Oh and I'm also checking into this glass of water. YUP.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    sad I’m Annoyed, tired, dumbfounded
    Knowing that Foursquare employees are checking into snowstorms takes the Foursquare experience down another level for me. I used to love it and respect the rules. And then it all went awry.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    Yes. My bucket of chicken is on my kitchen counter which is in a physical location. I'm using your snowstorm logic. That storm was 50 miles off the coast of Long Island. Did anyone go to the storm's physical location? Nope. So how is it valid. Of course my chicken isn't a valid location. I know that but with this logic everyone thinks it's ok to check in there. Of course it's not.
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  • Scott Kleinberg
    You are absolutely right, Brett. It is their product and they get to decide the rules. And I'm the consumer and I can choose which game I want to play. Thankfully, there are myriad choices. If Foursquare gets me a coupon or something I'll use it. Otherwise I'll play a game with rules that have some basis in fairness. Games where you make up rules as you go tend to suck. My kid sister used to take extra monopoly money from the bank when she ran out. My mom let her. I hated it then and I hate it now.
    • view 2 more comments
    • If you consider that you star to get lots of rubbish when you try to checin to places.. And that people just create roads and put tags or categories so they can earn badges when they checikin.
    • If you consider that you star to get lots of rubbish when you try to checin to places.. And that people just create roads and put tags or categories so they can earn badges when they checikin.
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  • Tom C (SU2)
    silly I’m amused
    You know what the best part of games is that I've learned over the years? If you don't like the game or the rules associated with it, you don't have to play.
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  • I can't believe this is still going.

    How is this so much of a problem? I'm pretty sure it has already been said multiple times... but here it goes again.

    None of us are the absolute authority on venues. Foursquare is. Bickering with people here will get you NOWHERE. All that any of us can do is give our opinions and/or link to official foursquare materials on what is valid or not. So trying to point out why you think one thing is valid and another is not to us, is useless.

    We can agree with you or not - but it does not matter.

    If (any of) you have that much of a problem with what are and are not venues, the best thing you can do is tell someone at foursquare about it - through their support system: http://support.foursquare.com/anonymo...

    Go to that link. Submit a request and voice your concerns. Because continuing to plead your case here is only wasting the energy in your fingers.
    • view 1 more comment
    • That is the official channel to receive support from foursquare employees. Use it, or don't. I don't care. But there is ZERO reason to continue whining about it here.
    • The link isn't sent to an automated system. Foursquare staff do respond, where appropriate, to issues posted via this. I have had 2 different issues answered recently which I notified Foursquare about using this system. Real responses from real people and the issues were dealt with.

      As for roads being venues, that's Foursquare's decision. Personally I don't like it but it's their rules. I can either accept them and play the game with this in mind or I can not accept it and stop playing. I have chosen the former.
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  • Vyrtual
    sad I’m frustrated
    Martok, so you know, this is the reply I got less then 15 seconds after I posted the message.

    QUOTE
    Thanks for contacting foursquare!

    A ticket has been created for your issue (ticket #81077) which you can review or comment on here: http://support.foursquare.com/tickets...

    Based on the ticket you created, we think you're asking about using foursquare. You should find an answer to your question in our general help center (http://support.foursquare.com/forums/...) or in our special "checking in" section (http://support.foursquare.com/forums/.... Our main help center is here (http://support.foursquare.com/categor.... Hope this helps!

    Please bear with us, we're testing this out in an effort to better serve our rapidly growing and awesome user base!

    Thanks,
    Team Foursquare
    UNQUOTE

    If that ́s no automated, then I don ́t know what else is. Besides, I still have 2 other tickets there for 3 months to be answered.
    • view 1 more comment
    • This comment was removed on 2011-01-12.
      see the change log
    • So, they leave the ticket open, no reply at all? I don ́t think it ́s like that. Before this being a game it ́s still a company. But, maybe, it ́s just the way things are.
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