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You think I'm giving fake check-ins! I'm not!
I got to @garyvee's wine party at Cedar Street Courtyard just as it moved to Rain. Checked in from both locations, no problem. Then @garyvee asked us to all tweet the Rain location, and checked in again from Rain, and from then on in, all my checkins were considered suspect and I got 0 points for the rest of the evening, even though I should have gotten points for at least 3 more locations.
(When the rviplounge checkin gave me 0 points the first time, I tried again as "rvip lounge" which of course look further suspect, but that was because via text there was insufficient explanation for the original 0 points.)
AntiFreeze / Seth Blank / http://playfoursquare.com/user?uid=1880
(When the rviplounge checkin gave me 0 points the first time, I tried again as "rvip lounge" which of course look further suspect, but that was because via text there was insufficient explanation for the original 0 points.)
AntiFreeze / Seth Blank / http://playfoursquare.com/user?uid=1880
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?>> and from then on in, all my checkins were considered suspect and I got 0 points for the rest of the evening,
Ha, sorry about this... even if you flip the "cheater" flag, it'll only not award you points for the next 15-30 minutes. Then you get a second chance. :)
> (When the rviplounge checkin gave me 0 points the first time, I tried again as "rvip lounge" which of course look further suspect, but that was because via text there was insufficient explanation for the original 0 points.)
this, tho, may be a bug... hmm what was the timeframe btw Rain + Karaoke RV? (and how awesome was the Karaoke RV, btw?!?)
1 person says
this solves the problem
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Inappropriate?The time frame between them was a few hours. But hitting my hotel shortly after the RVIP lounge was less than 30 minutes. -
Inappropriate?I got the same notification. I got a haircut, checked in there. Half an hour later, I walked a block and a half to the coffeeshop I like. Check in. I decided to go drink my coffee at the bookstore across the street, check in. Nope, no points. I'm accused of a fake checkin. Because 50 feet of walking to impulse buy books while I'm drinking a mocha is beyond believing.
Is there a limit to the number of places I can check into in a day? There must not be, because the leaderboard for SF says: 1. Jimmy W. 470 (53x).
I’m annoyed
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Inappropriate?Yeah, something is definitely wonky with the "cheating" rules... I'm actually taking a look at it now. (and what's up w/ these people checking in 53x!)
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Inappropriate?Hmm... I'm looking at this now. The "cheating" rules is pretty much 3+ checkins within the last 15 minutes.... and from the database, looks like you had 5 checkins during that time.
It's a tough rule to make (and I hate having to make rules like this, but there's people that check in at every place they can find just to run up the scoreboard). We still check you in, we still let you your friends know where to find you, we just don't give you any points.
I'd be interested in hearing if you have any other ideas on how I can fix this... I need to keep rules like this to prevent people from gaming the system and ruining it for everyone else, but at the same time I totally understand where you're coming from.
Anyway, looking forward to hearing back.
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Inappropriate?That's twice in one day.
Checked in at Los Altos Typewriter, hung out for a few minutes looking at typewriters, decided I needed some coffee, crossed the street, checked in there.
Then, I was done with Los Altos, so I drove to the record store nearby. Nope. I'm fake checking in. I'm not really standing there, perusing the stacks, selecting two items from their used books, paying my $5.97, and leaving.
This morning, I checked in at the Hair cut place, walked a block to Bean Scene, where I checked in, got my coffee, and bounced across the street to Leigh's Favorite books, where it said my checkin was fake. I bought "The Memory of Running" by Ron McLarty there, and checked in again at the same place to express my annoyance at being called a liar.
If I wanted to game the system, I'd just check in at all the venues around. Nowhere is it stipulated on the website that there's a certain time frame for number of checkins in a certain time frame. If you're going to make rules about this sort of thing, you have to post them, or I'm going to figure that Sammy McDouchebag has 10,000 points and 250 checkins a week because he lives in the hip neighborhood and goes to the correct hipster bars, and y'all want my suburb hanging ass back on Brightkite where I belong.
I'm giving you benefit of the doubt, but damn. I can't go shopping, or what?
I’m pissed
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Inappropriate?I think you have to look at frequency of checkins over the last 48 hour period and do fake checkins against that. That way, I can ramp up. For instance, I haven't checked in in quite some time now, but if I start checking in tomorrow, and then Monday check in at a few places in a short period of time, it's probably legit. But if I suddenly checkin at 5 places in a 30 minute period tomorrow after not using the service for a while, I'm probably faking.
But I guess the more salient point is.... who cares if the system is gamed? Any system that can be gamed will be gamed. If someone wants to write a script which checks them in somewhere random every 31 minutes, they will. Let's make this easier for people like Apollo and me to enjoy and not worry too much about the cheaters unless something becomes blatant.
And at that point, just look at their behavior, see what's awry, see if you can filter against that without blocking legit users, and move on.
Or is my head up my ass?
Seth -
Inappropriate?I think what's gonna happen for now is (a) that whenever you trip the cheater filter, we just remove you from the leaderboard for a bit and (b) we're going to flip the focus from global leaderboard to "my friends" style leaderboards.
The whole "who cares" point is a good one... turns out that the game's not fun to play if you don't feel like you can compete with cheaters. And even if we don't give you 2 points for this, 2 points for that... we're still letting your friends know where you're at and I think that's where the real value in the system comes from, you know?
2 people say
this solves the problem
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Inappropriate?Fantastic. So, when I accidentally trip the cheater filter, I get booted off the leaderboard. Great. Even if I'm not cheating.
I guess that means I should use another site that doesn't punish people trying to legitimately use the things they offer, while others (like Jimmy W in SF, who already has 73 points over 4 checkins just today) get to run up hundreds and thousands of points with a nice pat on the head.
I'm not trying to game the system. I think the points system is nifty because it encourages me to check in, but if you're going to run your system like this, you should eliminate the whole leaderboard concept.
Either way, I'll keep checking in, but if you're going to punish people who are honestly trying to use the site in a sensible way (no 3 checkins within 15 minutes, really? even if they're, like, a block apart) and they're trying to use the site in a way that ISN'T DISCOURAGED IN DOCUMENTATION, I might have to emphasize BK instead. No points there and I can check in from anywhere in the world.
Incidentally, how does 4 checkins amount to 73 points? Who does Jimmy W know?
I’m finished.
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Inappropriate?Totally agree with you... I gotta look into this Jimmy W guy. Sorry to be so clueless about some of this stuff... its really hard to keep tabs on the all the "gaming the system" and bugs at same time... trying hardest to keep it, er, working but at the same time not people game it to the point where it's no longer interesting.
I'm still at a loss as to why *you* set off cheater code while Jimmy does not (requires me to set aside a chunk of time on my end)... I also think we'll get some quick bang-for-the-buck by massaging the language, etc we use so you don't feel like you're being "punished". (that's the last thing we want to do)
Honestly, we're most interested in people 4sq to (a) connect friends ("where is everyone?") and then (b) hopefully driving them to experience new things... the badges + points are kind of experiments-in-process to see how we can get there. I know 100% we don't have it right now, but we're kind-of getting closer every day (at least on paper... not yet on code). I guess the best I can do is ask you to be patient with us as we try to figure stuff out. :/
>> (no 3 checkins within 15 minutes, really? even if they're, like, a block apart)
Designing social systems is hard... and even harder when you specifically try to create "rules" that are supposed to reward people for the way you've imagine those users are going to behave withing the social system you've created. Our "imagined" use of fousquare that of people checking into places where people can find them (and they stay for a long enough time for people to find them)... we're seeing lots of people use foursquare in ways we didn't intend (your case included) which is good and excites us, but of course then we have to tweak our definition of the service to match the way our users have defined the service on their own, you know?
I took a class with Clay Shirky @ ITP/NYU back in the day (he was our informal thesis adviser for dodgeball too) and his classic rule for social systems is "regardless of how you imagine people using whatever you create, they'll find new and unexpected ways to use it"... and we're definitely
seeing that (I think you and a handful of other users are pushing that the most). It's a good thing (it means people dig what we're doing!)... and we just have to adapt.. we're just not doing it fast enough. :)
Anyway, sorry for the drama, we're working on it, and I hope we can still be friends :)
(and would love to debate this more... keep it coming)
2 people say
this solves the problem
1 Comment Add a comment
This solves the problem
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So, I'm still not on the leaderboard more than a week after the last time I had the server call me a fake. I keep checking in and I certainly have more than 8 points this week, but I'm nowhere to be found. I have no illusions of being in the top 3 or 4, but it took me 12 hours in Portland to be #1 and 16 in Seattle without doing anything that flagged the server.
I'm assuming that I'm off the leaderboard permanently, which gives me very little incentive to even try continuing to check in. Good luck keeping the San Francisco hipsters glued to their zip codes. -
Inappropriate?Hmm... no one is ever "removed" from the leaderboard... I'm thinking maybe it's a city glitch (did you switch cities recently). I'll see if I can take a look in the morning.
Thanks for your patience - we're still hustling a bit over here. :)
-d1 Comment Add a comment
This solves the problem
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I dunno. Some of my checkins get me no points at all. I have checked in 6 times this week so far, it looks like.
It's all good, brother. I don't have too much call to bitch, since I'm chucking out mad coin for this service. Such a huge pricetag. Free? Yeah. Complaining about a free service feels a little like the very pinnacle of douchebaggery to me, so I'll just be quiet and try to check in from some place different. -
Inappropriate?Hmm.... the general rule (and I should spell this out in more specific terms on the website):
+ scoring is turned OFF between 8am - > 4pm on weekdays (except for "first time here" points)
+ no points for places that are NOT in our database
... does that clear things up a little bit?
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