Escalation: Got some rock to sell on eBay?

It would be really shocking if someone actually made a fake ebay auction for the sake of winning on Hubdub! Also, it by no means settles the 'will pieces of the satellite be recovered' market. We shall see.

So we thought a fair way to settle it would be if the auction was reported in a news site. However, several users who have staked cash on the question aren't happy with this change to the settlement rules.

This is a test case, so whatever is decided here will be used in future for questions referring to an eBay auction.

I don't know that I agree with the conditions of the second sentence (above) being applied to the first.

It seems to contravene the spirit of the newly proposed "Rule Amendments" -- posted earlier on this board:

2.2.1 Subject to change
• Any rule change may be applied retrospectively on a case-by-case basis.

With regard to the original question about fragment debris being posted on eBay, I think the intent of the original poster was clear -- and it was a light, lively, fun and topical question. (FYI, I have no H$ on this question.)

One can often make suggestions as to how a question can either be improved, or have additional conditions -- and, in many instances, these are helpful.

With this question, adding the condition that "the auction be reported in a news site" does, in my view, place a significant barrier on the question, and is not fair to those who made predictions on the question as originally asked.

Going forward, as this is a "news related" site, it would make sense that an auction be reported by a credible media outlet. Without it, taken to the extreme, one could create tens of thousands of questions such as "Will a 1955 Chevy be auctioned on eBay by dd-mm-yyyy?" -- or "Will more than 500 photos of a kitten be uploaded to flickr by dd-mm-yyyy?"

However, with respect to the original eBay question, I would "view it on a case-by-case basis", not as a precedent, and either let the the question go forward without the condition of "the auction be reported in a news site", or, failing that, void the question.

This is my question, and I thought the original settlement details were quite explicit. I agree with nubbins that I would find it amazing if a Hubdubber created a fake Ebay auction in order to game a question on Hubdub (tha might be a good question though 8^)

I created this question after the US government announced that they would attempt to destroy the dead spy satellite, but well before it actually occurred. I think the starting odds were a reasonable guess, and I refrained from taking a position on this question until more than 24 hours after I created it in order to allow the market to correct the initial odds to avoid any impression that I created the question in order to game it..

Lastly, I think the fairly consistent trend towards No reflects the success of the US Navy's destruction of the satellite, to the extent that nobody would bid on a fraudulent Ebay auction claiming to offer a piece of that satellite.

I would prefer that the original settlement details be restored, and that this question be permitted to settle. I will lose a bunch of H$ if someone successfully games it.

I kind of glossed over this post before my response to the general question below, and I am pleased that the original settlement details have been restored. I agree that if a suspicious Ebay auction appears at the last minute, or even now, that the question should be voided.

I pledge that I will not cash out my H$1K stake in this question prior to settlement as a gesture that I was not attempting to cheat, or permit anyone else to cheat, when I created this question.

I have requested settlement!!!! Here is why!!!

Spionagesatellit (spy satellite) USA 193 Satellit
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Spionagesatell...

hmmm ... the Australian based eBay seller, in his/her own words doesn't claim the object is part of the, so called, spy satellite.

Rather the claim is that this is "Probably a part of the spy satellite “USA 193” ... " and "probably came down in Germany."

The seller further disclaims the object by stating " ... unfortunately we can ́t take any responsibility for the correctness of those information."

IMNHO, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to parse this "claim".

Hey there TruthWrangler!!

Is it possible you got the "Australian based eBay seller" from the use of .com.au in the URL I posted?

The person says he is in Germany and this item can be found on ebay.com too.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search....

or here on the German eBay site too.

http://search.ebay.de/search/search.d...

Awesome stuff!!

To restate my earlier comments in this thread succinctly:

No, this is not a claim.

In my view, "claim" is to assert a fact ... even if that fact is not true.

This eBay seller asserted a "maybe" ... by claiming this is "Probably a part of the spy satellite ..."

If the seller had said (claimed), "this is a fragment of the 'spy satellite' ", that would be settled as a "Yes". Even if it wasn't true.

I had/have no H$ in this market.

As this question's creator my opinion is that all of the caveats in the Ebay auction submitted by the Hubdubber requesting settlement is indicative of the fact that the Ebay user who created this auction is certain that they are not auctioning a piece of US 193 (dead spy satellite). They might be making some assertions to that effect, but the caveats indicate that they are not claims.

I recommend settling this as No, and am willing to have _my_ position either voided, or settled against me.

This question got far more attention than I expected, and in retrospect it was not such a great question. But just as the site is in beta, so are the users.

i have no money on this Q, but noticed the hubbub about it....after looking thru the thread and such, i decided to look up claim on dictionary.com (3. to assert or maintain as a fact 7. an assertion of something as a fact) and that does not appear to be the case here...i vote "no"

No, it is not a claim. When i created this question I anticipated someone definitively declaring on Ebay that they were auctioning a piece of the dead spy satellite. IMO, there are far too many caveats in the auction submitted for settlement to be considered a claim. As I have said in other posts on this thread, as the creator of this question I'm okay with it being settled No, and my position being settled Yes, or it being voided, or really whatever the HD admins decide.

Let's not be silly here. If you are going to settle this on the definition of "claim" then this could go on forever.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/claim

Noun 1. claim - an assertion of a right (as to money or property); "his claim asked for damages"
assertion, asseveration, averment - a declaration that is made emphatically (as if no supporting evidence were necessary)
cause of action - a claim sufficient to demand judicial attention; the facts that give rise to right of action
dibs - a claim of rights; "I have dibs on that last slice of pizza"
pretension - the advancing of a claim; "his pretension to the crown"; "the town still puts forward pretensions as a famous resort"
2. claim - an assertion that something is true or factual; "his claim that he was innocent"; "evidence contradicted the government's claims"
assertion, asseveration, averment - a declaration that is made emphatically (as if no supporting evidence were necessary)
allegement, allegation - statements affirming or denying certain matters of fact that you are prepared to prove
3. claim - demand for something as rightful or due; "they struck in support of their claim for a shorter work day"
demand - the act of demanding; "the kidnapper's exorbitant demands for money"
insurance claim - demand for payment in accordance with an insurance policy
4. claim - an informal right to something; "his claim on her attentions"; "his title to fame"
title
right - an abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature; "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"; "Certain rights can never be granted to the government but must be kept in the hands of the people"- Eleanor Roosevelt; "a right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away"
5. claim - an established or recognized right; "a strong legal claim to the property"; "he had no documents confirming his title to his father's estate"; "he staked his claim"
title
legal right - a right based in law
own right - by title vested in yourself or by virtue of qualifications that you have achieved; "a peer in his own right"; "a leading sports figure in his own right"; "a fine opera in its own right"
entitlement - right granted by law or contract (especially a right to benefits); "entitlements make up the major part of the federal budget"
6. claim - a demand especially in the phrase "the call of duty"
call
demand - an urgent or peremptory request; "his demands for attention were unceasing"
Verb 1. claim - assert or affirm strongly; state to be true or existing; "He claimed that he killed the burglar"
pretend, profess - state insincerely; "He professed innocence but later admitted his guilt"; "She pretended not to have known the suicide bomber"; "She pretends to be an expert on wine"
contend, postulate - maintain or assert; "He contended that Communism had no future"
make out - try to establish; "She made out that she know nothing about the crime"
purport - have the often specious appearance of being, intending, or claiming; "The letter purports to express people's opinion"
profess - practice as a profession, teach, or claim to be knowledgeable about; "She professes organic chemistry"
charge - make an accusatory claim; "The defense attorney charged that the jurors were biased"
affirm - say yes to
disclaim - make a disclaimer about; "He disclaimed any responsibility"
2. claim - demand as being one's due or property; assert one's right or title to; "He claimed his suitcases at the airline counter"; "Mr. Smith claims special tax exemptions because he is a foreign resident"
arrogate, lay claim
call for, request, bespeak, quest - express the need or desire for; ask for; "She requested an extra bed in her room"; "She called for room service"
claim, take - lay claim to; as of an idea; "She took credit for the whole idea"
pretend - put forward a claim and assert right or possession of; "pretend the title of King"
requisition - demand and take for use or service, especially by military or public authority for public service
arrogate, assign - make undue claims to having
forfeit, give up, throw overboard, waive, forgo, forego - lose (s.th.) or lose the right to (s.th.) by some error, offense, or crime; "you've forfeited your right to name your successor"; "forfeited property"
3. claim - ask for legally or make a legal claim to, as of debts, for example; "They claimed on the maximum allowable amount"
call for, request, bespeak, quest - express the need or desire for; ask for; "She requested an extra bed in her room"; "She called for room service"
exact, demand - claim as due or just; "The bank demanded payment of the loan"
counterclaim - set up a claim in opposition to a previous claim
demand - lay legal claim to
4. claim - lay claim to; as of an idea; "She took credit for the whole idea"
take
avow, swan, swear, affirm, assert, aver, verify - to declare or affirm solemnly and formally as true; "Before God I swear I am innocent"
arrogate, lay claim, claim - demand as being one's due or property; assert one's right or title to; "He claimed his suitcases at the airline counter"; "Mr. Smith claims special tax exemptions because he is a foreign resident"
disclaim - renounce a legal claim or title to
5. claim - take as an undesirable consequence of some event or state of affairs; "the accident claimed three lives"; "The hard work took its toll on her"
exact, take
necessitate, need, require, call for, demand, postulate, involve, ask, take - require as useful, just, or proper; "It takes nerve to do what she did"; "success usually requires hard work"; "This job asks a lot of patience and skill"; "This position demands a lot of personal sacrifice"; "This dinner calls for a spectacular dessert"; "This intervention does not postulate a patient's consent"
necessitate, need, require, call for, demand, postulate, involve, ask, take - require as useful, just, or proper; "It takes nerve to do what she did"; "success usually requires hard work"; "This job asks a lot of patience and skill"; "This position demands a lot of personal sacrifice"; "This dinner calls for a spectacular dessert"; "This intervention does not postulate a patient's consent"

This is the exact question from HubDub ...

"Will there be an Ebay auction claiming to offer a piece, or pieces, of the dead spy satelitte on or before February 29, 2008 PST?"

There is an auction for a piece of said satellite. There could be no such auction if the auctioneer did not "claim" to be selling it.

It's obvious to me. It's yes.

One more point.

There is an EBAY auction for this. So therefore someone is claiming to sell a piece of the sat.

The opposite of this would be to say that someone at EBAY was selling "not" a piece of the sat.

If this was a crushed piece of cardboard painted black but he claimed it was real then it would be a yes?..nut because he says he isnt sure and nobody ever could be its a no?..using dictionary explanations for words like claim are pointless if the person mking up the questions doesnt use it..then most of these questions could get caught up forever in exact explanations

We might as well start arguing whether or not the piece is a dead piece as stated in the question. Define dead. Does it still have power? Do we know?

unless somebody saw it fall from satellite itself nobody would be sure..he claims he thinks it is..it doesnt say will the person making the claim state that they are 100 percent sure that it is a piece of the satellite..it says will someone caliming to have a piece of the satellite auction it on ebay..he claims it is and it is being auctioned...if he said he was sure it would be a yes?..then we would believe him?..if he said he was sure and it would be yes then it should be yes here because there would never be a way to authenticate it either way..if it would have been a no if he said it definitely was then it should be no..this uncertainty by the seller really shouldnt matter

uh...the question did use the word claim, that's why i looked it up....and since that's what everyone seems to be arguing about, i figured it was relevent...it seems as tho if you don't like the way the question is getting settled you can just come out with some stupid argument like "who cares what the definition of a word is, i know i'm right" and get the outcome settled in your favor no matter what the facts are.....the seller does not state as a fact that the piece is from the satellite and it should be settled as no

all i did was give 2 scenarios..if he stated it was from the satellite how in the world would he know even if he said it was so i don't think whether he said he was sure or not is relevent and i didn't state one way or the other which way it should be settled..it doesn't make a diiference to me..i just find it interesting that the main argument is that the guy says he isnt sure but if he said he was sure everyone would be ok with it

If the satellite don't fit, ya got to acquit!

The seller never claimed as fact this was a piece of the action.
I have zero HD$ on this Q/Market.

Dear God, yes! No eBay questions, please.

Destry,

It was my question and I'm in complete agreement with you. Had I realized the controversy this was going to create I never would have created the question. Perhaps it should be voided so everyone who had a stake is equally unhappy.

While I think it's a valid YES I would also agree at this point to Void it... this is getting stupid.