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Market unsuspended (resumed) without notice.

This concerns the market: What will be the margin in the next poll conducted by ARG on the Pennsylvania Democratic Primary?

I made a comment about this suspended market yesterday, as I was surprised that there hadn't been a poll released yet.

Due to the significant events that took place in Pennsylvania yesterday with Obama's speech, I just made another comment today.

After making that comment, I noted that the market had "mysteriously" resumed.

One user, jenniandboys, commented yesterday, that "maybe since we don't know when the next poll will come out we could unsuspend this question until then and let it play out?"

Absent that, there was no notification or communication in the comments that this was officially being considered -- much less that such an action was either going to be done -- or had been done!

In my view, this lack of communication, seriously undermines the integrity of this market (and the site as well).

Users in this market can cash out at a profit, or at a loss, and/or take "better" positions, or hedge the market -- IF they happen, by some chance to notice that there was a change. Those users whose attention drifted elsewhere while this market was suspended and awaiting settlement may likely get screwed!

My comment today had an intent of adding to the communication about this market.

While there have been significant problems of late with regard to staff acting or not acting on markets, there has been, in my view, a significant up-tick in both pro-activeness and responsiveness on the part of HD to improve that situation. Those efforts have been praised by other HD users in various threads.

In my view, this is an unfortunate step backward.

My request is that this market be voided.

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  • rohan
    Inappropriate?
    No cash on this, but its a valid point. Also, for some reason, I have stopped receiving emails when my questions are voided, and sometimes even for settled predictions
  • Inappropriate?
    Reposting and then adding:
    1) I guess I don't really see why there is a big problem with it unsuspending.. I'll go talk to you in getsatisfaction about that.
    2) The 'privately' is a good point. I've found flags are usually the fastest/most reliable way to get an admin's attention. Unfortunately its not public. It would be nice if we could have a public conversation but still make sure the admins knew we wanted to get their attention. There are an increasing # of threads which have long conversations between players which don't require the admins attention (or mine for that matter). (For example: http://www.hubdub.com/e/Market/Will_C... and http://www.hubdub.com/e/Market/BSE_Se...)

    I'm not in ANY way saying its bad for users to chat on threads, just that its harder for the admins to keep track of the discussions they need to. I tend to use the flagging system, but perhaps a double post would be better.

    Really sorry this frustrated you, to be honest, I thought I was helping -- I thought you were annoyed that the market was frozen, so the obvious solution seemed to unfreeze it. I hope you can acknowledge good intentions here!

    Adding:
    There have been a lot of other makets which have been unsuspended with a simple "not sure why this was suspended, reopening" note on the settlement page. I understand the 'timely' nature of the poll question makes that a little different, but I don't know how Ryan could have notified anyone that it was reopening.. like an email or something when a market you are in gets unsuspended?

    Destry has been complaining that there has been too much request for user interaction and you're saying there needs to be more. I think its understandable that the admins are having trouble finding a safe middle ground.
     
    sad I’m really sad to have caused a controversy
  • NewsWrangler
    Inappropriate?
    Jenni + 2 (or more ;-)

    I feel, absolutely, that you had the best of intentions -- that you and Triath wanted to (and did) create very interesting markets -- and that your wishes to un-suspend the market were done in an attempt to help make things better!

    I don't disagree that flags are the desired method to bring something to the attention of an admin/editor -- and I also agree that the level of noise has picked up significantly in some of the comment threads.

    There are countless examples when an editor/admin has prefaced a comment in a thread with, "Responding to a flag about this ..." Were that not the case, perhaps, I would have been less astounded to discover that this market had resumed.

    And yes, while I, too, have seen the "not sure why this was suspended" notation you referred to -- the latest (praised by users') trend has been for an editor/admin to make an announcement in a market that "I will un-suspend in 24 hours, unless ..." While, as you mentioned, a broadcast email might be even better, at a minimum some communication in the thread is, in my view, required.

    In this market, it would have been more helpful had you both posted your flag, and made a comment in the thread. In a similar manner, had I opened a thread here, in this forum, and not posted that information in the "comments" thread -- that, in my view, would be both poor communication on my part, as well as being unfair to the users in the market.

    However, please know, none of my/these comments are in any way "finger-pointy" at you (and yours), rather they are directed to HD staff, with the intention of being helpful. Said differently, in my view, the responsibility for the lack of communication is with staff -- as it was their action that un-suspended the market, not yours.

    Last, while I cannot speak for Destry, I can add that I haven't found myself disagreeing with what s/he has been saying about "user interaction"... For me, it's not about finding "what's safe" -- rather it's about finding what's effective and appropriate, and developing a core of "best practices".

    [As a footnote, I wanna state what many/most folks know -- that electronic communication doesn't convey "tone", "inflection" and feeling. None of this has any intention of offending. Some people have the gift of being able to write "exactly" the way they "sound" in real life -- I'd like to have that gift!]
  • Inappropriate?
    Hi Truthwrangler,

    Sorry for not leaving any clarification or comment. I'd been traveling from Edinburgh to New York and was rushing through things as quickly as possible on my way. I checked the polling website, saw nothing had been released and reopened.

    I usually leave a comment or clarification but I just rushed through this one.
    Apologies for the confusion caused.

    Regards,

    Ryan
    Hubdub US Politics Content Editor
  • Inappropriate?
    Just wanted to pop in and first clear up that I am a male. I am looking forward to when all that information is on our profiles.
    I don't seem the harm in unsuspending a market without notice. What is the downside, maybe I am just missing it. I hope one of the improvements on the horizon is that we can look at our open predictions by category or status.
  • NewsWrangler
    Inappropriate?
    The downside is that users have been locked in a market at a well communicated point in time -- at a known position.

    Without notice, the trading resumes, and those users who happen to "catch" that, can either cash out and/or take more advantageous positions -- to the severe disadvantage of those users who don't know the market was reopened.

    This makes it a zero-sum market.

    In my case, for disclosure, when I looked at the un-suspended market, my total net worth in the market had dropped by more than 50% from where it was when the market was suspended.

    As I mentioned in the market's comments thread, I was prepared to take a loss in this market -- as it involves polling, and when that poll will finally take place is unknown ... this in a very dynamic state (Pennsylvania), and I would expect the results, when they finally come out, to be significantly different than the positions I had when the suspension date was reached.

    However, for a user (and I suspect there are many) to take a significant loss because of arbitrary staff procedures is not, in my view, an acceptable result.
  • Inappropriate?
    I think that with the fluidity of markets "catching" the markets on the move is essential. I just caught the will obama drop out of race market at an opportune time and got great odds.
    I think suspending and unsuspending markets would be nice to have an automatic email generated.
  • Inappropriate?
    2 suggestions from this discussion:
    a) add emails for admin clarifications and un/suspensions (I'm guessing this will be very easy for Tom to implement)
    b) put some kind of flag capability on the comments themselves so if you want to bring a discussion to an admin's attention, you can do it within the thread without the need to doublepost. (kind like in getsatisfaction you can flag individual comments for review)
  • NewsWrangler
    Inappropriate?
    It has now been two weeks since the last poll from ARG.

    As JenniAndBoys commented in the thread of the market, "No, its not what he intended. It was meant to give us something to do while we wait for the PA vote -- and he thought the ARG poll would be coming out on Monday -- we have both asked Ryan to unsuspend this until the poll comes out. ..."

    Restating part of my initial post in this forum:

    After making that comment, I noted that the market had "mysteriously" resumed.

    One user, jenniandboys, commented yesterday, that "maybe since we don't know when the next poll will come out we could unsuspend this question until then and let it play out?"

    Absent that, there was no notification or communication in the comments that this was officially being considered -- much less that such an action was either going to be done -- or had been done!

    In my view, this lack of communication, seriously undermines the integrity of this market (and the site as well).

    Users in this market can cash out at a profit, or at a loss, and/or take "better" positions, or hedge the market -- IF they happen, by some chance to notice that there was a change. Those users whose attention drifted elsewhere while this market was suspended and awaiting settlement may likely get screwed!


    Ryan did leave a comment, above, "I usually leave a comment or clarification but I just rushed through this one.
    Apologies for the confusion caused."


    In my view this is not "confusion", rather the unannounced resumption of this market, destroyed the integrity of this market. Imagine, if you would, in a real-life trading market, that the market suddenly resumed trading -- and only those who happened to have not left the trading floor for the day knew about it. Indeed, this is why the "opening bell" and "closing bell" ring so loud.

    Since the market resumed, the market has fluctuated widely, during the few times I have looked.

    We are now coming up on yet another suspension date for this market -- with absolutely no idea of when another poll might be released -- this in a state (Pennsylvania) where significant events are occurring each and every day.

    While there have only been two posts from other users on the original request I made in this post, both have, to my read, supported voiding this market.

    A response to my original request would be helpful.
  • Inappropriate?
    I've added email notification on void, unsuspend, clarification and suspend to our dev list. The first three will be switched on by default, the fourth will be switched off by default. This is because admins typically suspend the market prior to settlement and users shouldn't get two emails per settlement unless they really want to.

    Tom
  • NewsWrangler
    Inappropriate?
    Now that this market was finally settled, yesterday, it is my hope to close this topic as well.

    I made a specific request in the initial post of this topic, and made a specific follow-up request a few days later: "A response to my original request would be helpful.".

    While there were comments left from users, as well as staff, what I anticipated was, after a suitable period of time had elapsed, an official response to my initial, specific request.

    Something, perhaps, along the lines of "... after considering ... we don't think ... so we aren't going to void the market...", or, "... after consideration/discussion we think ... so we are going to void the market ...".

    Aside from the mild annoyance I experienced, this lack of response heightened my awareness to comments ("complaints") that have been voiced by other users, both in this forum, and in market-comment threads, that have the sentiment of "I posted something in the Get Satisfaction forum ...", or "I asked a question ...", -- and didn't hear anything.

    Indeed, a cursory look at just a couple of (somewhat) recent posts in this forum hint at a trend of staff not replying to users' specific questions.

    The legend at the top of this Get Satisfaction forum declares "Hubdub is here! 10 employees are listening and participating".

    I would cheer-lead for staff to respond, specifically, to user posts, rather than take a dilatory approach and allow the posts to languish into obscurity. To not do so, in my view, is to dilute and diminish the value of this forum, and create user dissatisfaction.
  • kruijs
    Inappropriate?
    Since the last 7 days at least I noticed the activity to be considerably lesser than before. I thought maybe the guys from hubdub are on Easter-hollidays now ... ?
  • Inappropriate?
    Hi Newswrangler

    I was really sorry to see your post and can totally understand your frustration. Reading back through the various posts here it looks to me as if your request that the question be voided was simply not noticed as people got more involved in the notification discussion.

    I'll speak to Ryan and get you an answer or at least an explanation in the next 24 hours.

    The original idea behind us using getsatisfaction was as a forum for users to discuss problems and ideas amongst themselves, and as such I will admit that our involvement/response times has been a little sporadic or slow at times. The quickest way of getting a response from us directly has always been to use the "Contact Us" form on Hubdub (at the foot of every page).

    However, in light of these discussions, we've changed our internal processes which should now mean that we will be more responsive on this forum.

    Best wishes

    Lesley
     
    happy I’m confident
  • Inappropriate?
    Hi newswrangler,

    Apologies for never responding to your initial request. I must've just completely overlooked it when responding to your post. In terms of voiding the market I wouldn't void the market.

    This is due to the fact that all the other markets which have been reopened before your suggestions never sent out automatic emails either. I'm thankful for the post you made, and I hope no hard feelings come about.

    Due to your post we've added a new objective to the "list of things to do" (it's long, very long) and we will be able to improve the Hubdub experience because of this.

    Sorry again for all the confusion surrounding this post and market in question, and especially to wrangler.

    Regards,

    Ryan
    Hubdub US Politics Content Editor
     
    happy I’m thankful
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