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Use external app/device as a transport/tempo master.
Hi,
First of all, loving it.
Second: I use Logic a lot and would love it if Elysium could act as a slave.
Meaning that it would receive transport and possibly tempo change events.
Cheers,
Eloy
First of all, loving it.
Second: I use Logic a lot and would love it if Elysium could act as a slave.
Meaning that it would receive transport and possibly tempo change events.
Cheers,
Eloy
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Inappropriate?It's a great idea.
I've taken a brief look into it and I can handle the Sysex messages from, say Logic, easily enough. Where I am running into difficulty is getting Logic to actually send them. It seems to want to slave itself to an external clock and doesn't simply send record/play & stop.
Need more expertise to solve this problem.
I’m puzzled
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This answers the question
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Same with Live I guess ? -
Yep the issues will be the same with Live I think.
I haven't really had time to look into this further. I'm hoping that someone with a deeper understanding of the issues will pop up and offer some guidance. -
Inappropriate?So, I've had no problem getting clock data from Live to convert to OSC within MaxMSP to drive tiction. Perhaps I can help. I'm not sure exactly what the issue is, though. As far as start/stop/continue type stuff, I've not really ever needed to implement them. The way tiction works kind of negates the need for this, but I don't know if that is an easy implementation for you.
Basically, clock data is sent out at regular intervals (depending on the tempo), and this data can be used to trigger the next event within the tiction sequencer. If the clock stops, no more events are triggered. When it resumes, events resume as well (from where they last left off).
I'll examine the events again coming from Live to see what other data is being transmitted, but I believe Ableton supports start/stop etc. as well.1 Comment Add a comment
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Hi amounra.
I'd be very grateful for your help. In fact I think you've already helped with your description of how you implemented your tiction sequencer.
So, instead of running my own timing system and simply letting Logic/Live start & stop Elysium I could turn over the whole timing to the DAW and simply wait on event arriving.
There is one complication in that Elysium's layers can have independent tempo. That might still be supportable in a limited fashion by having Logic drive the maximum tempo and allowing layers to use slower tempos (e.g. host/2, host/3, etc..).
Do you have any code I can look at? Even if it's not directly translatable it might be interesting to understand it in overview.
Thanks,
m/ -
Inappropriate?Hi Matt,
about layer independent tempo,
a way to implement it which would be idiomatic of how music sequencer usually works, would be to have a top level sync in the player offer option of external midi clock or internal sync. Then, in the layers you could choose between between being a slave to the player, with a speed ratio option to let layers be like double or half speed of player, or the other layer option would be for it to have independent sync.
something like that...1 Comment Add a comment
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Yep, I think probably this is the kind of thing we'll end up with.
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Inappropriate?also, about how to implement the external clocking, the midi protocol has already though about that, google for midi system realtime and midi system common and you'll get the info for implementing it. here is one good example of the types of message you'll need to listen to:
http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/...1 Comment Add a comment
This answers the question
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Thanks for the pointer. I did try and get this to work but couldn't figure out how to get Logic to act as a master. Whenever I tried to get this working it seemed that Logic wanted to slave itself to some external clock.
Some more learning to do here I think!
M. -
Inappropriate?You probably have you tools for spying on midi messages, but I'll say it anyway: Have you tried spying on logic output with MidiMonitor:
http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/
It can show you a lot about midi message from Elysium, and you will get confirmation about Logic spitting SystemRealtime or not...
I am not really familiar with logic, but in other soft either there is a setting like 'Generate TC/Clock/LTC' and if no setting is present it may be its generating by default. An other thing you could check is it midi implementation chart, usually last page or so of the manual, will tell you a lot about which midi messages it can spit out.
L-P -
Inappropriate?Hi LP.
Sorry, your last message slipped under the radar. I do have MIDIMonitor, use it all the time for fact checking, but my issue with Logic wasn't interpreting the MIDI messages it was sending but, conceptually, that what I was doing seemed to make Logic want to be a slave to an external clock.
I am sure this is just my unfamiliarity with Logic but I don't know any truly experienced Logic pros to ask for help. My experience asking Q's on Logic-related forums is variable.
Right now I am in the middle of a big control-scheme refactoring but, once that's done, I will try and rally the troops to make some headway on the timing and MIDI issues.
Thanks again for the info & feedback.
m/ -
Inappropriate?I've been taking a look at several of these kinds of programs similar to Elysium -- Nodal, Tiction, MIDI Game of Life, Noatikl, etc., and I keep running into the same kind of sync problem with Logic. I don't know OSC, but if Amounra can explain what he did via MAX to drive Tiction, I'd really like to see it. I suspect that one of the problems might arise from Tiction using ticks instead of beats? Whatever though, I can't get Tiction to play with Logic via IAC with anything except ITS internal clock. When I try to record MIDI into Logic, not only is it not synced up, there also seems to be some clock drift. I've written a couple of blog posts on NOdal and Tiction (charlesgriffin.net) and will soon write about Elysium. Love it! -
Inappropriate?Hi Charlie.
Glad you're enjoying Elysium, it's always nice to get feedback (well, mostly nice anyway) and I look forward to reading about how you're using it.
The issue of sync to host is still one of interest to me, especially since I have started using Elysium to drive MIDI controlled effects (e.g. Tim Exile/Native Instruments 'The Finger') as well as instruments.
I'm going to push this back up the list and if anyone can offer any assistance with working it all out I'd be most grateful.
Thanks,
Matt
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