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dominikporada hates Firefox
Overheard
from a Twitter post by
dominikporada
dominikporada
You can’t imagine how I hate Firefox. I love better IE to this crap.
I have this problem, too!
Tell me when someone solves it.
The more people who report this problem, the more it gets noticed.
The more people who report this problem, the more it gets noticed.
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Inappropriate?Can you give me some details as to why you hate Firefox? We may be able to help.
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Inappropriate?I’m a front–end developer, so the most of my details is on Firefox’ rendering engine but I’ll start with two issues on different aspects:
- Firefox isn’t native application (at least on Mac OS X—I use this OS)—unless it’s a feature.
- Firefox is slow (especially on Windows).
- Personally, I don’t like its fonts rendering (but it got better in Firefox 3—I appreciate that).
- Horrible forms and styling them in CSS (I mean setting background and then simply adjusting input tag using line-height).
- Focus, focus, focus—there’s no way to remove outline from a clicked submit button if you want your CSS code to be validated properly (I don’t care about it but some of my clients do).
- ... (few more CSS issues I don’t remember now). I wish there was a sort of conditional comments for Firefox applicable as simply as the IE’s ones.
- Safari and Opera just have much better rendering engines.
With all due respect, I hate this browser and my opinion has been shaped for a very long time and most probably you’re not able to help me...
I’m frustrated
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1,2,3,6 and 7: Progressively on the improve, I find it hard to hate the direction it's going. I await a time when all browsers pass the Acid3 test. For all non-IE browsers that will be soon.
4 and 5: As an end user I prefer to recognise forms when I see them and here's something I *do* hate: how sites like to fiddle so much with them. I like reliable functionality; has any website developer actually bothered to ask it's users before styling forms to buggery? -
bugmenot — I know what you think about styling forms, because I have the same opinion—not to style them, but sometimes project (not your own) you’re working on needs it, a client requires that and you aren’t able to explain him what’s ok, what’s not.
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Inappropriate?
- I use Mac OS X and it's becoming more native with every revision, Firefox 4 should be completely Cocoa I think.
- I have never heard of a complaint that it was slow on Windows, until now. What is your setup like, including plugins and extensions?
- Safari's rendering uses a technique called "blur", which a font-loving (an understatement) friend of mine calls "genius", this may end up in Firefox.
- I don't know what you mean here, except tab not going to select, which is actually a bug in Safari that they won't "fix" (the HIG says don't tab to select boxes unless you have accessibility on).
- Tell me more about how you use CSS to remove an outline from a clicked submit button so I can find if there's a bug on that.
- Conditional comments? like "lte fx2" type things? I'm sure that would be shot down pretty quick as building in "excuses" for developers to have different CSS for each browser instead of one valid css file that works in all, but I can't find a bug on that at the moment.
- If you can find problems with the rendering engine, posting bugs or helping with existing bugs will help solve things
In short, I think it's a holdover from the old days when Microsoft didn't give a crap about bugs in it's browser, so you don't feel inclined to report them. If you find problems, you're not just helping yourself by reporting them or adding additional data to help get them resolved, you're helping the entire web including developers and end users. I do it whenever I find an issue, and sometimes that helps my bug get fixed. I'm not saying you have to use Firefox as your main browser, but if you're aware of issues enough to tweet about them (and claim IE is better), then you obviously have some desire for your issue to be addressed. -
Inappropriate?
- IMHO, it got worse in Firefox 3.0 but this is a thread for another discussion. I’ll try to like Firefox (as an user, not as a coder) when it will be written in Cocoa completely.
- When I used to use Windows, Firefox was always eating a lot of memory.
- I hope it will soon.
- Let’s leave it, shall we? I didn’t meant the issue you mentioned. I’ll write an example file later (probably tomorrow if you don’t mind).
/* works in every browser apart from Fx... */
input[type="submit"]:focus { outline: none; }
/* ...and the Fx way to remove outline from submit button (and it doesn’t validate) */
input[type="submit"]::-moz-focus-inner { border: none; }- (6. and 7.) I’ve had a lot of situations in which Safari and Opera rendered a site properly and Firefox didn’t (ex. an absolutely positioned container moved few pixels to the bottom). The point is I had to rewrite half of my CSS code to get a desired effect and make it work on every browser. I know I’m a bad guy—never reported any of errors I found. ;-)
And I claimed I prefer IE to Firefox because I’m able to correct an issue (and sometimes even implement one—the expressions() can do miracles sometimes) unobtrusively. Client/employer doesn’t feel any pain when I serve a hacked stylesheet for IE (I can say the validator as well).
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We have different points of view in this discussion—Thomas is the app developer and I’m the webdeveloper using/working with the app. ;-)
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Dominik, I don't have IE so I can't check there, but does the number 5 not show up in IE? I know it doesn't in Safari, but it does in Firefox/Camino. It just goes 4, then a pre, then 6.
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Inappropriate?I believe the issue you have with 5 is that you're using a CSS vendor extension, I don't know why it "works" in other browsers (need to do more research), but I know MS is introducing many vendor extensions in IE8 (and I think there were a few in IE7). The confusing thing is I can't find any -moz-focus- extensions.
In doing research, I find a comment by zacheos I tend to agree with:
I am not a big fan of these kind of conditional statements. I feel the website is better of to use markup that works for all browsers in all situations.
Here's something that might help (for now), something someone pointed out to me recently: conditional-css.com. It appears to serve a different CSS file depending upon which user agent you're using, which isn't much better than the old way of doing that exact thing, but it might help you with the problems you're seeing.
(P.S., I'm not an app developer, I just try to help) -
Inappropriate?Thomas, I wish there were browser which don’t require any hacks because everything is well–rendered.
I know it doesn’t validate because of CSS vendor extension, but try to find a way to remove outline from clicked submit button which validates...1 Comment Add a comment
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Dominik, it's actually not a CSS vendor extension, it's something totally different. Feel free to add your input, and especially experience with other browsers (for parity), to this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug...
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Inappropriate?Dominik, have you filed a bug for that specific CSS issue? Instead of hating Firefox, help us improve it by pointing out the flaws.
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