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Need for a better HTML editor for Ning blogs, notes, and pages
The Notes pages in Ning currently have the most sophisticated editor, but even it is not very good compared with some of the in-browser HTML editors out there. It would be great to have a decent editor, such as TinyMCE, in Ning, especially for Pages and Notes.
I realize some features of a powerful editor such as Tiny are not appropriate. But it generates very good HTML. Having a very trimmed down version of Tiny for blogs, along with more a beefy features set for Pages and Notes would vastly improve content creation.
For example, in blog posts, a return is interpreted as an HTML break. Tiny and other smart in-browser editors read a carriage return as indication of a new paragraph and generate the appropriate HTML. That is a much better approach in terms of standards and accessibility.
Finally, I wish Ning would mess less with my HTML code, in blog posts, especially. If I am writing HTML in my blog posts, leave it alone, unless it is dangerous or malformed. If I type my paragraph or other tag so that it sits alone on a line, I do this so that subsequent editing of it is easier to read. Ning now "fixes" the code by sticking the text following a paragraph tag and the end paragraph tag all onto the same line, which makes for difficult to read code. It does other little rearrangements and munges, for example injecting breaks when it renders out pages--annoying: I had to write some JavaScript to yank out breaks from the DOM.
So, how likely are we to get better in-browser HTML editors and when? And can the text input parsing rules be dialed back a little, so that they don't reformat the raw code or "help" by inserting unwanted HTML breaks?
I realize some features of a powerful editor such as Tiny are not appropriate. But it generates very good HTML. Having a very trimmed down version of Tiny for blogs, along with more a beefy features set for Pages and Notes would vastly improve content creation.
For example, in blog posts, a return is interpreted as an HTML break. Tiny and other smart in-browser editors read a carriage return as indication of a new paragraph and generate the appropriate HTML. That is a much better approach in terms of standards and accessibility.
Finally, I wish Ning would mess less with my HTML code, in blog posts, especially. If I am writing HTML in my blog posts, leave it alone, unless it is dangerous or malformed. If I type my paragraph or other tag so that it sits alone on a line, I do this so that subsequent editing of it is easier to read. Ning now "fixes" the code by sticking the text following a paragraph tag and the end paragraph tag all onto the same line, which makes for difficult to read code. It does other little rearrangements and munges, for example injecting breaks when it renders out pages--annoying: I had to write some JavaScript to yank out breaks from the DOM.
So, how likely are we to get better in-browser HTML editors and when? And can the text input parsing rules be dialed back a little, so that they don't reformat the raw code or "help" by inserting unwanted HTML breaks?
I’m frustrated
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The company has this under consideration.
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Hi all,
There are some really strong points here. I want to make sure I've got the key issues:
* We strip too much HTML from your posts
* We need to do a better job with page breaks
* The Notes Editor is arguably better (and definitely different) than the other editors.
* The look and feel is "so 90s".
All these points are valid, and when we do tackle our HTML Editors I'll make sure that these issues are addressed.
At this point, it's just a matter of scheduling this project. A better HTML Editor is one of those improvements that we'd like to get out, but will get prioritized a little lower than some of the other work we're doing. (For more details about what we're up to, check the Ning Blog.) But yes, I'm with you — the HTML Editor could definitely use a facelift.
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The best points from everyone
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Totally agree here as well. We've been building social network sites with Drupal, and were really excited about the possibilities of Ning. This issue is going to be a major problem, though.
Expecting content authors to know enough HTML for basic formatting is just silly. I wish that was possible, because I really do hate what rich text editors do to markup. In practice, though, requiring HTML knowledge for any kind of formatting is a pretty significant barrier for content authors, and you can lock down text editors enough to prevent most markup disasters.
Please fix this! There's so many open-source editors out there it seems like it should be a pretty small task to plug one in!
I’m disappointed.
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Hi Nick
Your points are mostly on target. But I'd like to amend them a bit:
* It's not just that you strip out HTML, you also change the formatting of the HTML (so lines in the code wrap oddly or end tags get sandwiched next to content) and this makes subsequent editing of source difficult.
* Not page breaks, but HTML break tags. The WYSIWYG editor is "stupid" and thinks when I hit return I want a break tag, when, normally, I want a new paragraph, instead. In TinyMCE, for example, if I want a break tag, I hit Shift + Enter. An Enter keypress gives me a new paragraph (or new list item, as appropriate to context).
My advice, from experience, is you will waste time creating your own editor. Use an already established, powerful, and robust editor, such as TinyMCE. Pair down its feature set so that the editor enforces (helps enforce) good HTML coding practices.
The aesthetics of the editor are important, of course. But much more important is the functionality and quality of code produced.
Hey, and I'm really pleased Ning is now considering this!
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Totally agree!!!1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Hope some other folks start following this, too. Would really be nice to get some word on this from Ning core developers. -
Inappropriate?Absolutely. You have my vote. I do little in site, mostly done outside and then pasted in. -
Inappropriate?Same here -
Inappropriate?I concur. Something along the lines of what one finds at Wetpaint would be great.
I’m excited
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Inappropriate?Absolutely. The editor needs a lot of improvement and I don't think it's too much to ask for it to work the same in every part of the site.
1 person thinks
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Inappropriate?I found a great HTML editor widget wich you can implement on a separate page.
I did it here: http://queerzone.ning.com/page/html-e...
I get my members to writer their blogs and comments into this editor and copy and paste the HTML code into their postings.
You can get the widget here: http://www.widgetbox.com/dash/subscri...
It's really cool and my members love using it :)1 Comment Add a comment
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I was going to suggest another HTML editor I have used on another Ning network, but this one is way prettier! Thankx Zohra.
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Inappropriate?I clicked on your link Zohra but no dice. Widgetbox says no such widget exists.1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Thunder X, of course I want to encourage NCs to use the Ning Directory WYSIWYG, cause it helps traffic and ratings, which helps all members of the ND. And the Editor also helps teach HTML.
Our HTML Editor, is packed full of features in comparison to widget.
http://theningdirectory.ning.com/simp...
I also noticed the link widget didn't work. Click on Zohra's actual page link, and grab the widget there. I think that link works. ;-) It's the "Get Widget" button at bottom of Zohra's Editor. Your Members will enjoy it.
Best to you,
Jen :-) -
Inappropriate?Hi .... there are nice links here. I prefer to compose my text offline with an editor and to paste the HTML into the text later. I use a free editor called phase 5 - but it is written of course in my language (German) but here is also a link to an editor which is good to use: http://www.pspad.com/en/ and here you will find also good stuff http://www.htmlkit.com/
I’m thankful
2 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Forgot about HTML Kit, I used to use it when I first started editing html, but for some reason stopped using it. The question here however Jens is about having an html editor on-site. Having an html editor online is more convenient for me. I use the editor at The Ning Directory or Blogger. Thankx to Zohra here, I will now have one on my network.. Cheers.
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"The question here however is about having an html editor on-site." ;-) ... ... yes, sure!
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Inappropriate?Thunder X Click on the link to the page in my network where i am using it...
Or go to widgetbox.com and search for HTML getter this will refer you to the right page :)
Zohra1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Danke!
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Inappropriate?* BLUSHES * LOL!!! You're welcome Thunder X...
I love having this editor on my site.
For the regular blogging and forumtopics the normal editor is ok, but for those who don't know how to add a picture or certain styles to their topics, this editor is wonderful and my members love it!
And i am glad you love it too :)))
Zohra -
Inappropriate?I think this idea warrants a new tip on the Ning Directory. Thunder-X if you decide this is the one to suggest for NCs, let me know. When I have time, I'm going to look at the HTML Editors that are available via a widget. The one I installed happens to be the TinyMCE that started this topic. It's powerful. But, it takes a lot of installation files. In fact, I had to install a lot of it on my server outside of Ning. Although better to me, than a widget, due to page load, etc... I think to tell other NCs about the availability of a widgetized HTML Editor is a great thing.
Thanks for the inspiration, Zohra. Honestly, never crossed my mind that an Editor was available via a widget.
Best,
Jen
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Same here Jen, i accidentally found it when i was looking for something else LOL!!! And now i am happy to share it with you guys!
Have fun with it!
Zohra
I’m happy
1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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;-)
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Inappropriate?These are great comments, thanks to all of you for supporting the idea and for providing resources.
Has anyone started looking at OpenSocial? I know that Ning will soon support OpenSocial Apps network-wide, not just as user-specific "enhancements." Maybe one of the better editors, such as TinyMCE, could be ported to a Ning OpenSocial application (would need, of course, to check on copyright issues, though...).
So, while I think having a widget on the site somewhere (Zohra), off-site (Ning Directory), or creating content in an external/desktop editor and pasting in (ThunderX (and what I do)) are good ideas, they are all essentially work-arounds--ways of getting around a fundamental deficiency of Ning. I should not have to go elsewhere to get a good editing experience. I should be able to have that experience right on the page I am editing/creating.
Porting an editor to Open Social and making it a Ning App might be a good means for adding functionality, instead of just working around a fundamental problem.
Even with this, though, there are things to consider and things to work around in Ning:
- Ning tends to add breaks where ever there are blank lines in your code
- Ning will HTML-encode broken code: if you forget to close a tag, Ning thinks you want to have your HTML turned into characters and it will oblige you--so, any editor needs to produce perfect code
- Ning is very fussy about pre-formated code and code blocks, often adding breaks where you do not want them
- The Ning parser has a different set of rules for Pages and Notes as compared to blog posts. In essence, the parser is stricter and more limiting of HTML in blog posts.
- Any editor that gets implemented should be very selective about what buttons/functionality to include. For example, you should make sure that someone doesn't mistake large text for a heading. And headings on pages should start at H2, since only Ning itself creates H1s, etc. In other words, the buttons and functions in any WYSIWYG editor implemented for NIng should try to "force" the author to use properly structured, accessible HTML--not "junk code."
Another question: Can an OpenSocial Ning App be written that overrides a default Ning widget? That is, is it even possible to implement a nice HTML editor for Ning that takes the place of the default HTML editor/editors? How "open" is the OpenSocial API within Ning?
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?I could not agree more... i am also very bothered why this editor is not built in standardly in NING... also i am very irritated why we do not have the same editor as we have in NOTES also for BLOGS, FORUM , HTML boxes and videodescriptions! In short: 'THERE NEEDS TO BE UNIFORMITY!!'
On the other hand i wonder why they remove great features, like directy uploading a backgroundpicture into a module and a module header (wich we used to have in the past) and removing the tag clouds from pages like videos, forum etc,.
Ning is really a weird company.
I like their system but i dislike the company, i mean, the way they are working and the so called'creative souls' they have overthere! Things would really change if i was the CEO (LOL)
They spend so much time on ridiculous issues like the 'latest activity' and 'spaces between modules' and other ridiculous stuff, while we are complaigning for groups enhancements for almost two years now. We have been promised a year ago that in last august 2008 there would be 'enhancements' for groups... what happend to groups from that point? NOTHING!
I think personally they just gave us these 'small releases' just to give us an idea they were working on something, while in the background they were working on the bigger plan: 'NING.COM' facebook clone!
Ofcourse we shouldnt have a workaround to have a good HTML editor, it should be built in.
Anyway, all this forces us to be creative in a way to make it the way we want it, until ning hears our prayers :(
I’m frustrated
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?I like Ning too. But it's really strange that they have such a bad editor. It's so 90'es. You can go to any discussion forum and post your opinion and get much better editors and usability for ordinary users!1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Well, except for a Ning discussion forum!
I like Ning too but the editor (and its inconsistency throughout the site) is embarrassing. -
Inappropriate?I'd like to add my vote for a built-in wysiwyg editor. I'm currently testing various platforms since I haven't settled on Ning yet. I just signed up for a SocialGo account to test it out and it seems they are using TinyMCE as their editor. That's a big selling point for me. -
Inappropriate?Ning: It IS a BIG issue!! The editor is 80'ths! when add text and afterwards ad an image it jumps to the to. The same does files when you attach them. You need to go in to the HTML code to change things - this is not okay!!
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Inappropriate?I really agree with you Snegom...
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Inappropriate?Hi all,
There are some really strong points here. I want to make sure I've got the key issues:
* We strip too much HTML from your posts
* We need to do a better job with page breaks
* The Notes Editor is arguably better (and definitely different) than the other editors.
* The look and feel is "so 90s".
All these points are valid, and when we do tackle our HTML Editors I'll make sure that these issues are addressed.
At this point, it's just a matter of scheduling this project. A better HTML Editor is one of those improvements that we'd like to get out, but will get prioritized a little lower than some of the other work we're doing. (For more details about what we're up to, check the Ning Blog.) But yes, I'm with you — the HTML Editor could definitely use a facelift.
The company thinks
this is one of the best points
1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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Any news about scheduling this project ?
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Inappropriate?Hi Nick
Your points are mostly on target. But I'd like to amend them a bit:
* It's not just that you strip out HTML, you also change the formatting of the HTML (so lines in the code wrap oddly or end tags get sandwiched next to content) and this makes subsequent editing of source difficult.
* Not page breaks, but HTML break tags. The WYSIWYG editor is "stupid" and thinks when I hit return I want a break tag, when, normally, I want a new paragraph, instead. In TinyMCE, for example, if I want a break tag, I hit Shift + Enter. An Enter keypress gives me a new paragraph (or new list item, as appropriate to context).
My advice, from experience, is you will waste time creating your own editor. Use an already established, powerful, and robust editor, such as TinyMCE. Pair down its feature set so that the editor enforces (helps enforce) good HTML coding practices.
The aesthetics of the editor are important, of course. But much more important is the functionality and quality of code produced.
Hey, and I'm really pleased Ning is now considering this!
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?The problem with the editor it is trying to be two things, a HTML editor and a WYSIWYG editor. It would far better if you edited in two modes like a lot of editors. Just need a button to switch between HTML or WYSIWYG.
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Inappropriate?The one on spruz.com is really great, i wish we had this editor in our blogs, foums, videodescriptions and textboxes
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Inappropriate?The problem with the editor is that it's so primitive and behind the curve. It seems weird to be asked what should be improved as if Ning users need to tell Ning programmers that they should look at the standard, popular editors found all over the Internet for ideas.
It's such a basic and important back-end feature that it's puzzling to see how low-priority it is to the company. It's like encouraging users to seek out a more up-to-date platform...
1 person thinks
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Inappropriate?I had also asked them for a better editor. This one of the major draw-backs of Ning, in spite of the good service and huge space the they offer.
What I did is, I have made a tab named 'User-Guide' and sub-tabbed some notes which gives the HTML codes to change font size, text-align, etc. But, if I were a member on my network, I wouldn't have the patience to learn HTML just for posting to a webzine. Instead, I would find a new one with a better option.
I’m all ears for a new rich text editor
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Inappropriate?I very much agree with you Shouvik,
I think the mistake NING makes is that they expect that all people and members on their networks are 'Techhead' but they forget that most of the members are just simple persons , like housewives, woodworkers, blablabla, they need a clean and simple but CLEAR editor that tells them how to center objects, how to make them bold, how to add an image, how to make columns and tables, etc., etc., etc.
They dont have the technical skills and interestes to learn HTML.
NING is a wonderful system, but i truly believe they are way behind with certain developements in this world.
Most blog editors are really advanced, even hotmail has a more advanced rich text editor.
I also don;t understand that ning networks have different editors for NOTES then they have for blogs, forums, groups and the videosection even MISSES an editor!
We need the SAME editor for EVERYTHING and not different editors for everything!
I hope NING will come out with lots of improvements in their next release!1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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I completely agree with standardizing. I often find myself making a notes page, typing up a message (with bullet items, etc), copying the code, then pasting it to a discussion or another place, then deleting the notes page. I really wish the UI for notes was in ALL the text entry UIs (as well as a few more elements). It is really confusing to try to explain all this dancing around to my members...most of which have never used HTML and wouldn't know to put in tags in their text, or how to debug pasting issues from basic wysiwyg apps (like the extra break issue).
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Inappropriate?By the way, isn't there a way to replace the existing editor with some JAVASCRIPT via the 'language editor'?
When it's possible to add smilies to the editor with a javascript (seen on themeworx.com) then why not an embeddable HMTL editor? -
Inappropriate?I like this idea too.
Adding paragraph tags to my content enalrges the text-size of those paragraphs. Why is that?
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This is one of the best points
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I'd like to know why I can't enlarge the font size in my Discussions...
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Inappropriate?Like to bring this post op-in-top. Cause I really have the need for a much better editor. Just now I couldn't insert the cursor in the right place when I wanted to format headings (bold) i plain text. I had to delete my post and write the html codes manually ind Notepad!
Ning - you have a SERIOUS issue here!!!
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?As an NC myself and not a programmer, the fastest way to get the customization you are talking about for me is I use Frontpage. I develop how I want the page, blog, etc. to look there and then copy and paste the code on my Ning site. This way I am not struggling to get the codes right.4 Comments Add a comment
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For those of us who are versed in HTML Notepad is actually easier than fronpage to use. However I prefer Dreamweaver.. :-)
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Ugh, it's distressing that we even have to talk about workarounds for something as basic as a text editor. What decade are we in?
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Sorry Rick you are 100% correct, I was just trying to get around the problem, most of the time I can here at Ning - well lately...
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Yeah, I definitely don't mean to discourage anybody from suggesting workarounds. It's just frustrating that Ning requires workarounds for so many features the rest of the internet takes for granted as standard...
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Inappropriate?Right Rick! A text editor is so basic - you shouldn't need to use other apps or write the codes yourself. Ning is a great system but here....
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Inappropriate?I agree this is a critical issue as we need to have a full featured text editors across all site (forums, blogs, etc.)
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Inappropriate?The poor quality of the editor is holding my organization back from fully embracing Ning. I need to have a bunch of content creators, but none of them will know html. Please prioritize this!
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?This sure would be nice......better than virtual gifts.....1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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No kidding...
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Inappropriate?I don't know how or why we got unnanounced, imposed virtual gifts (that you can dismantle if you take the time to look for how, since Ning never told us) over a simple recurring calendar or editor? How does that happen?
I’m losing trust in the future of Ning.
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Inappropriate?Couldn't agree more.... So tired of using html code here in 2009 and my users hold back...
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Inappropriate?The fact that there are truly open source editors out there like Tiny, really makes me scratch my head. This should not have taken this long. Now that I have blocked the stupid gifts on my site, can the Ning staff move on to fixing the editor? This is a really big hole in Ning!
Please, before I jump ship and take everyone with me that I can.
I’m very irritated
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Inappropriate?Totally agree here as well. We've been building social network sites with Drupal, and were really excited about the possibilities of Ning. This issue is going to be a major problem, though.
Expecting content authors to know enough HTML for basic formatting is just silly. I wish that was possible, because I really do hate what rich text editors do to markup. In practice, though, requiring HTML knowledge for any kind of formatting is a pretty significant barrier for content authors, and you can lock down text editors enough to prevent most markup disasters.
Please fix this! There's so many open-source editors out there it seems like it should be a pretty small task to plug one in!
I’m disappointed.
3 people think
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Inappropriate?Just checking back in. Lots of great response on this one. Nick Official Rep: any idea when this might change. Now that the big work on OpenSocial has been rolled out....
By the way, we recently took a look at another good open source editor: CKEditor. The old FCKEditor was an accessibility nightmare, but the new version is as good as TinyMCE re: accessibility (with a few minor tweaks that could easily be added in--specifically a guide on how to use the shortcut keys readily readable/visible and some minor ARIA tweaks).
Another thing to consider, perhaps as an option for users, is to preference allow Textile or Markdown. For many users a good WYSIWYG will be adequate, but for some users with disabilities and for others, due to usability preferences, Markdown and/or Textile are preferable. One serviceable implementation that uses JavaScript to generate HTML from Textile or Markdown is Jay Salvat's Mark It Up.
I’m waiting
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