Educators - weigh in on login systems!

The new PBWiki has made so many improvements, but I do agree that the email-based log in will not work for educators. Personally, I feel the issue is less about users with no email accounts and more about simplicity of logging in.

I teach an online faculty training course and one issue that comes up all the time is the need to create accounts for various tools we introduce. Many instructors have gotten annoyed when they need to create an account just to utilize a tool and they don't want to pass that burden on to the students. We may not see creating another account as a big deal, but less tech-savvy people do.

Some of my 'students' are new to the online environment and require a very simple log- in process. The invitation key was great for my course because there was no need to sign up for anything. I just linked out to the wiki (from my LMS) with instructions on how to enter the invite key. I will say that the double log in areas caused some confusion. A quick Jing video showing my users how to log in solved that problem.

Teachers want to make their tools as user-friendly as possible, for both them and the students. One problem I would run into with an email-login system is the initial set-up on the student's part. Creating an account is great if you have multiple wikis to manage, but it's not great for those who are just getting their feet wet.

The problem with the teacher assigning user names to each student in the class is the time involved in doing so.

Why can't we go back to making this an option at set up? When an educator signs up for an educator wiki, could they be given the option of simply using an invite key or making users get an account?

What if the students just use their real names, like firstname.lastname, for a username. PBwiki could automatically create Identities of the form "Firstname.Lastname@WIKINAME" which they could use to log in. As long as they are logging in to WIKINAME, they needn't even enter the WIKINAME part, just their own names.

That might be a hassle for a teacher - what if new students need to be "enrolled" into the wiki? The instructor would have to contact PBwiki each time that occurs. I think the admin privileges, in this case, would have to remain the instructor's responsibility. Especially in my circumstance where I roll over my wiki each 3 week session. Having the option to just give out a password is exponentially easier.

Give us the option! Please?

My son has a 6-digit ID number that was assigned to him in kindergarten, and the school district has used that as an identifier ever since; for that reason, he knows it by heart. For any school that uses such an identifier, that might make a good username.

As for seymour.butts, if credit for work is given to students by name, then seymour would be at the head of the class, while the student gets a zero.

Perhaps teachers could upload a class list with a custom-made tool from PBWiki. Then, those accounts could preliminarily be given PBWiki accounts -- until the student visits a special landing page to "claim" their account and optionally add an e-mail address to their account. And, if they never claim it, it expires within a set amount of time. Or something like that.

This is getting complicated, but i think we're on to something. Can we take care of this hassle at start-up? That's really the only question I'd like answered. I think the problem starts there, and there are 2 levels to it.

1. When I sign up for a wiki, one of the first options/questions should be if I want to make my site available to anyone with the invite key or just PBwiki account users.

2. If a teacher wants the security of only using PBwiki accounts, but doesn't have email accounts for students, there should be an option in their admin area to assign user names (which you just suggested) if they choose to take on that responsibility.

This is not a bad idea, as long as this tool is super easy to use. But I still think this should be taken care of after the second level (see my reply above), after the teacher has decided to use a "secure" wiki. Didn't we used to have that option in an older version of 1.0?

Under COPPA, wouldn't that count as "gathering personal information?" All the kids in my building are under 13.

When the kids added comments, I wouldn't want usernames that showed last names; that's against our district policy. I imagine it's the same for lots of school districts. Usernames show when people add comments, don't they?

Though it would work if little kids used, say, their teacher's last name or some other word (like megan.apple@WIKINAME or nathan.book@WIKINAME.)

Though having to type all that in would probably take my youngest students about 10 minutes!

Go Seymour!

But seriously (or butt seriously...) that's a great idea. No system is perfect; kids could still log-in under somebody else's name--but that could happen with e-mail log-ins, too. I'd love to be able to assign usernames, because I could make them as simple as I needed, or even make them something they already know, like ID number or library card number or whatever.

The owner of the wiki could to add a batch group of students - using a false email or school ID number. I do this for another wiki as well as for a Moodle site that I manage. The issue comes when they must "validate" their email.
Sharon B

OK- the confusion aspect makes sense. Could that confusion be cleared up with a short 5 second video on the different log in screens, showing users how to log in? People click to watch videos before they even know what they are doing and it wouldn't take up too much space. I guess I'm just used to finding work arounds in my training course because most of my students have never seen a wiki before.

I'm not sure what you mean about "switching between the two models." Other than the fact that once a wiki is private it cannot be switched to a public wiki. However, the reverse is possible in the settings (making a public wiki private). Am I on the right track with this problem or way off base?

Right, but when a person is switching from a public wiki to a protected wiki, they would need an account, anyway. So they would be able to merge their public wiki onto their account and only have one log in after that initial set up.

Forgive me if I'm wrong... I don't think the people who are switching from wiki to wiki are the people to be worried about. It's really easy to figure out how to merge separate wikis into one account.

The ones to worry about are people who have never used a wiki. Odds are these people will not have another wiki right away, so there will be nothing to switch to. I realize this is kind of a bold generalization, but it's true in my situation.

What problems are created by using a single free e-mail account that every fifth grader enters when they sign in to contribute content? (They are not moderators, just contributors.) I seem to get the notifications of edits just as expected, although those come to different accounts (that's the subject of a different question...) none of which is the free account that they type into the log-in. (This is a public v1 education pbwiki.) I realize that at this stage I depend on the students to say honestly who they are.

I would like to find the time to create a set of pb Identity entries for everyone. There is never enough time to tackle that... or at least I haven't had a serious problem yet with this single e-mail entry method.

Jonathan

You are turning this into a nightmare for teachers. I teach over 400 students per year and will not ever have the time to add users, etc.

I need it to be simple. I need a radio button that says, "anyone can edit this wiki" that I simply can turn off and on.

That way, when I go to the computer lab, or for a determined period of time, I can allow anonymous edits (perhaps with the ability to add the name as an option) and then I can turn that back off again to require an invite key.

The options discussed work in ideal situations, and yes, my students have ID numbers but I don't have the time to upload all of them. Nor do I have time to look up the kid who always forgets theirs. Or the kid who gets home and forgets how to login to the wiki.

I need turnkey and easy. Students are tech savvy but mine are young, and I can't be 24/7 on call with tech support.

Please, I implore you, make it simple. If other teachers want to use this with students year-round and have the time for a more complex, name-based setup that's good for them. I don't.

I agree with Carolyn's suggestion: allow the teacher to make the choice when the account is set up. Personally, I sometimes have a project that would be better handled with an invitation key; othertimes I'd like more control over who enters.

Guy, we have an incredibly transient population. About half of the students move in and out of our district every year. There is no point having anyone memorize a student account number, here.

However, it's a point well taken that any student not putting his/her name on work gets zero points!

I agree with crafty184, that simplicity is going to be critical. Our classes are immense, and there is no time for detailed instruction just to get into the wiki in the first place (much less deal wtih students enrolling into the program for the first time, each and every day).

I REALLY REALLY liked the idea of an invite key, because it was easy enough to point the kids towards the wiki addy, and then just say "type in your name, and then type in the easy-to-remember key." This worked like magic. The probability of a non-class member knowing (or remembering, or caring) about the wiki addy or invite key was remote. Frankly:

a) Most other people don't care that much about an academic wiki (certainly not enough to vandalize it);

b) Most people can't remember the wiki addy AND invite key well enough to go back and vandalize, either;

c) To be perfectly honest, my a lot of my secondary students won't remember their homework, their hygiene, their lunch money. They are not devoting ANY extra intellectual bandwidth to wiki addies and pass keys. As a result, the work is safe. From my students. Also from anyone they might share with.

I'm saying that the complexity of the wiki addy, and having to know the password, makes the wiki very safe. I'm really unsure about why this formerly useful program no longer works for pbwiki oh two.

Sounds like the divide is between elementary/secondary educators and the rest of us. Most elementary students don't have email addresses, and although many jr/sr high school students may not have them, there is an argument for introducing them to it and requiring their use. Either way requiring users to log in using an email address poses possible problems for these educators.

Some of the proposed solutions offered above seem a bit confusing to me, and I'd have to admit the current state of logging in is confusing to current users. With that said, I still agree with the move to email log-ins. I am a college teacher though, and students having email is not a current issue for us. We just send them to Yahoo! or Google. When it was an issue, I did this: http://tinyurl.com/3ccqmk

The social features available in a wiki where users create an identity help to create a better collaborative space where students are not just contributing content, but they are also participating in a community. They have names and icons that represent them. They can easily be held accountable for their activity on the wiki, as well as easily be credited for their contributions. It's amazing how many names students can come up with to represent them when given the option. It gets confusing.

I suggest that if an option be given, that it's given at start-up. We could have a choice between an education wiki, higher-ed wiki or other. If you choose education you get 1 thing - key, and if you choose higher-ed - email log-ins. The likelihood of users crossing is small thereby eliminating further confusion. PBwiki is supposed to be as easy as making a peanut butter sandwich. The more choices the less easy it becomes.

I love the idea from soul4real. We need an option. I searched for every possible solution last night and came to the conclusion that PBwiki needs to allow a key to log in. We do not allow student e-mail in our building. We do want to encourage the integration of let's say monitored technology. Also, If I recall, there is a legal issue with accounts under age 13.

My question is when can we expect this to be resolved? I'm helping with a tech camp this summer (apporx 100 educators) and wanted to teach teachers how to set up an account, make a wiki, and discuss uses in all disciplines. I was all ready to go until this happened. Should we go to wikispaces????????

I thought Wikispaces also required an email login....that's why I've always used PB over Wikispaces or Seedwiki. Now I'm not sure what I will use with my teachers, especially elementary.

They have admitted that "Our e-mail based 2.0 login system will not work for students with no e-mail addresses", so there's a chance that they will fix this in the near future. Given the fact that 2.0, while "officially" released, is still quite new, and will doubtless be changing for some time to come, I would recommend using a 1.0 wiki until such time as they make 2.0 useable for everyone.

My wife has been using PBWiki 1.0 very successfuly in her classroom for some time now. Her students' success convinced me to use it with my students as well. When I registered last week I signed up for version 2.0 not realizing that my students would need an e-mail address to login to the wiki.

I've spent quite a bit of my Spring Break making a wiki for my classroom, and I was looking forward to sharing it with my students, and watching them begin to use it as a learning tool, when they return to school on Monday.

Now, it looks like I'll be unable to share.

I wish 2.0 had an invite key like 1.0....would make things a lot easier for me.