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Please confirm: How does the new login system work?
After getting vague responses and nothing more I have decided to post one more question of sorts. My first question is simply for confirmation. 1) To login to a wiki now you must first create a mypbwiki account and then be invited to that wiki from the moderator? 2) If this new feature was going to be implemented and our invite keys stripped away why didn't I know this? Maybe I am the only wiki administrator that didn't but I don't think I am alone. I did know that login for the new pbwiki 2.0 would be different but I didn't know that the login would change for the pbwiki 1.0 we are currently using. I believe this is the first time that anything has really gotten under my skin but why weren't we just informed better. And when I did find that the wiki login had changed I had been digging for like 2 days to find this info. One last question. Do I need to inform my boss that the "invite keys" are no longer valid for our wiki or will they be back sometime soon. If they are not going to be back I really need to know because that means I have to send out a department wide e-mail, inform everyone that logins have changed and then write a tutorial on how the new login works. It isn't that I mind doing these things its my job I just need an answer please.
I’m pretty tired of not having a real answer on this
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The best answer from the company
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The short answer is that PBwiki is experimenting with doing away with the traditional wiki invite keys (wiki-wide passwords).
The reason we are doing this is because so many people have complained about the confusion of having two login systems.
Historically, PBwiki operated on a system of wiki-wide passwords. If you had the password, you had access to the wiki.
While this had the advantage of simplicity, it has some major drawbacks that only became apparent over time.
The biggest is in terms of security. All it takes is one person to leak the wiki-wide password on the Internet, and suddenly anyone can see your private wiki.
A lot of companies that used the old-style password-protected wikis discovered that they would have to regularly change their password whenever an employee was terminated.
That's not good.
The other drawback is the inability to provide a useful audit trail. You can't tell who did what unless you require people to have identifiable information.
This is why we're trying to bring PBwiki more in line with the rest of the Internet, where registering for accounts is both normal and expected.
The new login system, which requires people to set up PBwiki accounts, is supposed to be simpler in the long run because it does not require people to remember both wiki passwords and user account passwords.
It does sound like we've done a bad job of publicizing the change. Our belief was that the change would be relatively transparent and self-explanatory. Clearly, we were wrong.
What we should have done was added an announcement to all the login pages and to all our wikis, to let folks know what had happened.
Now, with all that said, let me try to answer the specific questions:
1) To login to a wiki now you must first create a mypbwiki account and then be invited to that wiki from the moderator?
This is true for 2.0 wikis. For 1.0 wikis, you can continue to use wiki invite keys, though people who wish to edit a wiki will have to create a PBwiki account.
This also points out an issue with 2.0 wikis, which is there is no current way to operate a truly "public" 2.0 wiki. If you make your 2.0 wiki public, anyone can see it, but only those specifically invited can edit it. This doesn't allow one to set up a public wiki where anyone can edit it (as long as they create a PBwiki Account).
We will need to add such capabilities before we can expect anyone to run a public wiki on the 2.0 platform.
2) If this new feature was going to be implemented and our invite keys stripped away why didn't I know this? Maybe I am the only wiki administrator that didn't but I don't think I am alone.
Short answer? We screwed up. We've added some notices on the pages, and here in Get Satisfaction, but clearly we needed to do more. This post is a start, but we will do more after this.
3) Do I need to inform my boss that the "invite keys" are no longer valid for our wiki or will they be back sometime soon. If they are not going to be back I really need to know because that means I have to send out a department wide e-mail, inform everyone that logins have changed and then write a tutorial on how the new login works. It isn't that I mind doing these things its my job I just need an answer please.
Our hope is that "invite" keys will go the way of the dinosaur. They are a legacy of an earlier time, and create confusion as a result. In general, any company that is using PBwiki for internal collaboration would probably get better results from sticking with our Account-based system, rather than the old wiki invite keys.
I’m chastened but hopeful
3 people say
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?I'm sorry about the confusion - we've been working hard to improve Accounts & Logins for everyone. I'm going to reach out to a few other folks on our team to pull together the answers you're looking for - I'll reply here as soon as I get that together.
1 person says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?The short answer is that PBwiki is experimenting with doing away with the traditional wiki invite keys (wiki-wide passwords).
The reason we are doing this is because so many people have complained about the confusion of having two login systems.
Historically, PBwiki operated on a system of wiki-wide passwords. If you had the password, you had access to the wiki.
While this had the advantage of simplicity, it has some major drawbacks that only became apparent over time.
The biggest is in terms of security. All it takes is one person to leak the wiki-wide password on the Internet, and suddenly anyone can see your private wiki.
A lot of companies that used the old-style password-protected wikis discovered that they would have to regularly change their password whenever an employee was terminated.
That's not good.
The other drawback is the inability to provide a useful audit trail. You can't tell who did what unless you require people to have identifiable information.
This is why we're trying to bring PBwiki more in line with the rest of the Internet, where registering for accounts is both normal and expected.
The new login system, which requires people to set up PBwiki accounts, is supposed to be simpler in the long run because it does not require people to remember both wiki passwords and user account passwords.
It does sound like we've done a bad job of publicizing the change. Our belief was that the change would be relatively transparent and self-explanatory. Clearly, we were wrong.
What we should have done was added an announcement to all the login pages and to all our wikis, to let folks know what had happened.
Now, with all that said, let me try to answer the specific questions:
1) To login to a wiki now you must first create a mypbwiki account and then be invited to that wiki from the moderator?
This is true for 2.0 wikis. For 1.0 wikis, you can continue to use wiki invite keys, though people who wish to edit a wiki will have to create a PBwiki account.
This also points out an issue with 2.0 wikis, which is there is no current way to operate a truly "public" 2.0 wiki. If you make your 2.0 wiki public, anyone can see it, but only those specifically invited can edit it. This doesn't allow one to set up a public wiki where anyone can edit it (as long as they create a PBwiki Account).
We will need to add such capabilities before we can expect anyone to run a public wiki on the 2.0 platform.
2) If this new feature was going to be implemented and our invite keys stripped away why didn't I know this? Maybe I am the only wiki administrator that didn't but I don't think I am alone.
Short answer? We screwed up. We've added some notices on the pages, and here in Get Satisfaction, but clearly we needed to do more. This post is a start, but we will do more after this.
3) Do I need to inform my boss that the "invite keys" are no longer valid for our wiki or will they be back sometime soon. If they are not going to be back I really need to know because that means I have to send out a department wide e-mail, inform everyone that logins have changed and then write a tutorial on how the new login works. It isn't that I mind doing these things its my job I just need an answer please.
Our hope is that "invite" keys will go the way of the dinosaur. They are a legacy of an earlier time, and create confusion as a result. In general, any company that is using PBwiki for internal collaboration would probably get better results from sticking with our Account-based system, rather than the old wiki invite keys.
I’m chastened but hopeful
3 people say
this answers the question
-
Inappropriate?Let me just start by saying PBwiki is awesome. I have to admit when I got my job and this was placed in my lap (I wasn’t here when it started) I was really excited. Then when I saw how easy it was for my users ( I am used to building and running sites myself) I was really overjoyed. You all have done a fantastic job putting out a system that is easy to use and works really well. Thank you for the answer that I needed. However I do have a soapbox to stand on for a sec. but don’t worry it isn’t critical at all I just want to try and help.
|soapbox|
I have noticed that more and more people are having trouble of letting the wiki wide password mentality go. Also making people sign up for user accounts is becoming frustrating for educators since some of their students do not have access to personal e-mail or are not provided with e-mail information from the school. So I have come up with an idea to throw your way hope it helps in some small way.
--Idea--
Let the user decide how they want people logging in to their wiki at the time of creation. Currently you are given the option of deciding what your wiki will be used for and If you would like to upgrade. I suggest adding an extra option that allows the creator to decide the login system. They can either user the new login system (PBwiki identities), a wiki-wide invite key, or I thought maybe you could give this some thought
--new login?--
Let the wiki administrator set up their own Identities on their wiki. Allow them to type in a name and a password and then that user will just login with that password and name combination. For educators I believe this would work. They can call students up to their desk, type in their first and last name and then ask them to please give them a password to use. After the name is set up with the password all the user has to do is find their name in the drop down list and then enter the password they told the teacher.
I took the liberty to make some screen shots so you can get a better idea of what I am trying to say. Thanks again for all the help.
What the wiki admin would see when adding users
How the user would login 1
How the user would login 2
I’m glad to get an answer and happy to spend my 2 ¢
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Inappropriate?Please consider how difficult the current user-based system is for management purposes. There should be a grid entry mode with select options (select all, select highlighted, etc.) and then actions on the selection. -
Inappropriate?How can I add my 50-or-so users from my 1.0 wiki to my 2.0 wiki?
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Inappropriate?I like the idea of a grid entry mode, a la the classic webmail interface. Agree that this can be enhanced.
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Inappropriate?Right now, you have to move your users manually, but we are working on bulk addition of users.
