Anne-Marie's dashboard

David, wow, a whole hour? I participated in one of the online conf calls in early March. (Also about an hour.) We were told that some exciting things were being developed and were to be released 'soon'. I convinced people here to pay for the nice PB license based on the many 1.0 wikis that we had and now I'm feeling the pressure since the easiest part of group teacher training is gone (invite key).

I don't assume that it's an easy thing to fix, but there has been months of feedback and PB needs to make any change they are going to make or stick with the decisions already made so we can choke on our money and find the other alternatives we need.

While we're working on this, I'd be nice if account login could set different notifications for different wikis. I'd rather hear from some once a day and others immediately. It's a pain, but not a deal-breaker.

I use my PB's and enjoy the simplicity of use. I have 4th graders tearing through pages and adding media content easily. There are so many good things about PB. But if it's a pain to get teachers trained in large groups, I will have to go elsewhere. There are so many other alternatives.

Thank you for the update. I realize this is a difficult problem to solve and would like to say that I appreciate the effort PBWiki is putting into finding the right solution. – Carolyn, 3 days ago

Hi! A couple of people have asked why we didn't just put invite keys into 2.0. After all "the code exists", right?

The issue is that 1.0 had a lot of very different ways to get into a wiki. The login page itself became very confusing (are you logging in with an invite key? Or a user account?) and we couldn't make guarantees about exactly who had done exactly what on the wiki. This generated a lot of support requests and it just wasn't a good, simple, "peanut buttery" solution. We tried several different iterations of login screen to see if we could message the dual systems more clearly, but this generally didn't pan out.

When designing 2.0 the team therefore made a decision to first have a unified and simplified login system that just asks for a username and a password. We recognized that this wouldn't solve the needs of everyone in 1.0 and that therefore we'd need to put some time into thinking about ways we could have our cake and eat it too to get to a place where we had a system effective for educators.

I appreciate the intensity on this thread. It's quite clear from the volume and passion that you want the 2.0 features and a mechanism to get students in that's as straightforward as an invite key. Some very specific and very helpful suggestions have been put forth on this thread that we'll be taking into account.

Just so you guys know, this is one of the very top issues at the company - all of the company managers got together for over an hour today (with this GS thread on the projector) to discuss how we were going to resolve this. We are determined to get you a timely solution that meets your needs.

Our apologies for the bumps along the way as we grow and work to provide you with the best wiki solution ever. Thank you for your patience.

Well, sometimes, when I reloaded the page normally, the browser tried to cache the image so I had to hard-refresh. Please let us know how things go for you today though.

I'm confused. So...sometimes it DIDN'T go through and you clicked refresh?

The problem isn't receiving the e-mails. I--eventually--got all my messages. The problem is that pbwiki is returning a message that the verification letters were incorrect, even when they weren't. I watched it fail to go through on the very first attempt for some of the kids. They opened the contact page, entered their info, typed in the verification letters correctly, and clicked "Send Message"--and got the error.

I never heard of a hard refresh--thank goodness for Wikipedia--but it looks to me like it bypasses a cached page. So if we cleared the cache, why would we still get the error message? We're using IE, by the way. Not my choice, but it's all the kids have access to. I'll have to find out what a hard refresh is on IE.

It seems to be a timing issue. The first kids to finish have their messages go through without a hitch. The last kids to try get the error message. They are all using different computers; they are the only class of the day to use pbwiki in the computer lab; the machines have Deep Freeze on them so nothing should be "left over" from a previous class.

I'm baffled! Today I'm going to have half the kids use pbwiki and the other half use the contact form on our school website. We'll see what happens!

I tried this myself, sending 20 emails to myself using the contact form and I got them all through just fine. I did have to do a hard refresh a few of those times (hold SHIFT while clicking the reload button).

I agree. I just did a workshop with 150 teachers and there would have been no way and no time to have them all create accounts in the time I had so I was limited to 1.0. I like the features in 2.0 but am now looking for other options to use in trainings and presentations with educators. I think it's time to move on to a new application. I told the teachers about the problem and suggested that they need to explore other options as almost all of them told me that creating individual student accounts was not an option for them. – Dan, 4 days ago

Hi Judy, I'll check in with the engineering team and see what I can find out today. In the meantime, would it work to create a 1.0 wiki (which still uses invite keys)? – Rachel Pennig, 4 days ago

Hi Anne-Marie. Let me check in with our engineering team and see what I can find out today. Thanks for your patience. – Rachel Pennig, 4 days ago

The invite key was part of 1.0. The code exists. I'm failing to see why it is so hard to just put it back in 2.0 or to come up with something that will let us revert our 2.0 PBwikis to 1.0.

I just got an announcement for other new features for educational PBwiki 2.0. While I can now annotate and keep track of references, that is all very nice but if my students can't get in to use the system b/c there is no invite key to give them, how on earth does this update help?

I'd much rather see you fix the missing features from the move between 1.0 to 2.0 then to spend time on new features I've never used before and have therefore successfully lived without.

Five days ago they said they are working on the "request access" feature that we've "been asking for", in response to this situation. When I pointed out that making users "request access" was just as bad as the current setup, they replied that they "have other solutions that will be implemented as this develops that should meet the needs as described above". Given the current progress on this issue (none), I would begin researching alternatives if you have pressing needs for open wikis in the near future.

I agree with Anne-Marie. Where are we on the invite key/password issue? I am conducting 2 workshops for teachers in July and August. I was planning on using pbwiki since I am a big fan- BUT if the password/invite key format is not resolved I will use a different wiki. pbwiki worked great for teachers and students when we used a password. PLEASE bring this format back.

Is there any update on this issue?

I can continue using my 1.0 wiki...but that doesn't help all the teachers out there (some in my district) who thought that "page level access" in 2.0 was what they wanted. So they've wasted time--and sometimes money--creating 2.0 wikis that require e-mail addresses for log-ins. If PBwiki doesn't move on this issue soon, you're just going to lose the educators to different wiki services. I also have a lovely platinum 2.0 wiki...that is COMPLETELY useless for my primary school kids. – Anne-Marie, 5 days ago

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I think that one of the best solutions is to have invite key with a name. A teacher will give out invite key then a student can login using his first name + teacher name

Lrosen, Our engineers are currently scoping out several possible 2.0 login fixes for educators and those who want public involvement with their wiki. As you can see there are a lot of different issues and we want to make sure that the decision we make will fix all of them. We're actively working to fix this situation for you but until we have the answer, the best advice I can give is to continue using PBwiki 1.0. Kristine – KrissyMo, 18 days ago

I agree with bringing back the invite key. I do workshops and don't have the participant names ahead of time.

In another role, I work with elementary and secondary classroom teachers. Their students don't have email addresses so they need a way to login with an invite key and their name. As far as abuse, we're looking for good/appropriate content and if a person's name does not have such content connected to his/her name, they don't get the grade. If inappropriate content is placed in there, it is removed and students are reminded of the rules. Then we move on to focusing on the content that will be assessed. We don't focus on who did it as that isn't an exercise worth class time, IMO. If the behavior were to get out of hand we would put an end to the use of the wiki. Students enjoy the opportunity to work in a wiki enough that this hasn't happened yet but they know it is out there as a possibility.

The other set of people I have are the non-editors, the community such as parents and school administrators. For them the wiki needs to be private so student material isn't viewable by the world without some sort of permission or login. But I do want them to have access to seeing what students know and are able to do. This is their opportunity to get involved even those who are working and don't have a chance to spend time in the classroom and know what the kids are learning.

I think an invite key works for this as well. If it isn't resolved soon I would like to know how to transfer my content to 1.0. Meanwhile, I may be looking for a new wiki solution.

This discussion started a month ago. PBWiki, where are you in making a change?

I would like to see individual user names and passwords. This allows me to track what each and every student does on the wiki.