Len Pallazola's dashboard

You're certainly correct that the reason they have this maze of crazy rules about what's backed up and what's not is to save money on storage. In principle, however, I have no problem with Carbonite (or the others) trying to discourage people from uploading unnecessary files. No-one should be backing up their entire hard drive, because this would drive up costs for all the other customers (like us).

What I DO have a problem with is the way they're going about trying to limit "over-backupping". Ignoring files basically at random and not telling users what's going on when it happens is almost criminal, and is causing a lot of grief for a lot of people who were responsible enough to get a backup service in the first place. As someone pointed out in the thread above, it renders the service not only useless, but dangerous.

DP

Yes ... I've experienced all of the behaviors you've mentioned. Let's not be naive. I feel as if we're dancing around the primary reason (or strategy) for eliminating some file types (like VOBs and EXEs for instance). When offering "unlimited backup", it might be beneficial to "limit" what might be considered excessive volume.

These files I'm having issues with are typically enormous. A normal DVD backup at least 4GB if not 9. Putting some fine print in the T&Cs around movies (et. al.) is a convenient way to avoid backing these up and thereby saving valuable space.

Also, as a an aside, since my earlier comments I have gone through a Restore. Many issues with files not restoring at all (I can't remember the error exactly, or even if there was one). It would simply finish and just tell me 31 files not restored and that was that. Non-recoverable, apparently.

For the moment, I've moved to SyncBack SE and local backups / syncs until I find a different online solution. MemoPal was looking promising, but have noticed similar inexplicable problems with their solution not backing up certain file types. Will probably try Mozy just because, but I've heard plenty of negative comments regarding it as well.

Remote Network Attached Storage may be the only viable solution for me.

--Dirk

Wow after a long and continued search for the PERFECT backup solution, I still find myself continuing to look. Thanks for someone caring enough to start this thread, great idea!!

I so agree with every thing that is being said about Carbonite here. I have installed and use Carbonite on four machines, all of which were installed less than 3 months ago. So we are still in a beta of sorts. I have recommended to Carbonite on 3 or more occasions to change their polices. See I totally disagree with anything or anyone who provides a product or service in the backup world that does not believe in total redundancy.

How can decision be made to exclude files?? That is the very backbone of what a backup solution is to provide.

Who in their right mind says lets exclude such and such file or files type? WOW! that's ridiculous.

The exclusion of any file is so absurd I can t believe I even have to write this post.

See we recommend backup solutions for 100's of clients being that we are a totally outsourced development firm, so things that work for us we suggest to or clients.

We have not been able to recommend a single offsite backup solution, other than expensive ones, to anyone as they are all useless.

Now lets me say I do like Carbonite as it is the best of the bunch, but if they do not make the necessary changes to the exclusion policies, we will no longer use them after the licensing period ends in 9 months or so.

Now there are other significant issues I see with Carbonite, such as the time it takes for files to be restored, can take 30 minutes sometimes for a file of any size. Another issue is the restore procedures, if you make changes to a file and it is awaiting backup you can not restore a previous version at least from the context menus (right click), thus you must wait for the backup to complete before you can see if you even have a previous version.

Also knowing bandwith throughput would be great so we can estimate initial backup times.

And preserving the directory structure is an absolute necessity, again why would an empty folder not be backed up, its in the folder???

These are just a few of the major issue we see, many have already been noted above and in other posts.

But I will say the biggest issue is that of the exclusion polices, they must give users an option in the UI to backup EVERYTHING in the selected folders, as without this it is basically useless.

Lets see if Carbonite can step up and give power users the tools they need to continue working with this product, as it is pretty good already.

DP

Carbonite has so many problems, I switched to Mozy.

1. Some of my backed up files failed to get restored when I did a "restore all". Luckily I noticed it and restored the missing files.

2. Empty folders are not backed up. Some of the tools I use store their data in complex folder structures that depend, at runtime, on certain folders being there. One tool in particular, Subversion, requires this to such an extent, that, after restoring the backups, without the empty folders, the data was rendered unusable. WHY would Carbonite choose not to store the folder structures as-is, is incomprehensible.

3. .ICO files are not backed up. Well, there goes hours and hours of work creating Icons. Thank you Carbonite! I don't care if this fact was listed in some exclusion list in some fine-print somewhere. It just doesn't make any sense, and, I got screwed out of houndreds of dollars on this.

4. .JAR files are not backed up. Thanks again Carbonite!

5. The Client UI code is so buggy - nothing works in the UI. I just click a link (like the restore individual files link) and, it just sits there. This behavior was seen in a FRESH install of Windows XP with Service Pack 3.

PLEASE, DO NOT USE CARBONITE - I AM GOING TO TRY MOZY!

Yes Nick, your suggestion is an absolutely a must add feature. I had absolutely no idea those [critical] files were not being backed-up.

--Dirk

Dirk- I've suggested to Len that, when files in a folder that has been selected for backup will be ignored, that a large warning appears asking the user what they want to do about the ignored files (back them up, back up all files of this type, ignore, or ignore all files of this type). Apparently they're working on a new software release now, so we'll see if this functionality is included. If not, I'm finding another backup service.

Len (and Nick),

I am experiencing this exact problem today. All of my irreplaceable Kids videos are backed-up to Carbonite.

There is a gigantic fallacy in the "Skip DVD Rips" comment, and that is: many camcorders these days are DVD-based and [can] use Rewritable media. I rip these DVDs and reuse the RW media. So, there isn't a DVD elsewhere to restore from. And even if there were, DVD is not a reliable backup solution.

The relative merits / validity of my approach are irrelevant. The files should be backed-up by default.

The "ignore files" approach (or similar) should absolutely be a customer selected option. By default, it should backup everything. Making things simple is one thing; determining whether a particular VOB file is relevant to a consumer is their own business.

Dirk

Hi Nick,

I'll certainly share your comments with our design team. Whether we implement it exactly as you described or in some other way, hopefully we'll improve the way we communicate to Carbonite users just what is and isn't backed up.

Thank you for taking the time to talk about this with me.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc

My original email to Carbonite a month ago asked if there were going to be any changes. Thank you for finally answering that question.

Posting warnings on install is not good enough. I didn't read it, and I'd guess most others didn't either.

As a general rule, if a software app isn't going to do something I just asked it to do (like back up ALL the files in a folder), it needs to tell me right then and there in big bold letters (not 6 months ago when I installed it, and not if I happen to notice the color of the icon on the folder afterwards).

While the "set ignore rules" option is a step in the right direction, I think some kind of wizard would be more helpful, and less complicated. Something that says "Some of the files in the folder you just selected will NOT be backed up by default. Here are the files (or file types) that will be ignored: [list] If you want these files (or types of files) to be included in the backup, click the "Include in backup" check box." Or something along those lines.

At least this way I know what's going on, and don't have to memorize some crazy list of rules. More work, yes, but better than always wondering if all my files really are being backed up.

If you implement this, I will gladly remain a customer. I like all other aspects of the service except for this.

Hi Nick,

Our basic promise is still Unlimited Backups. It's good to know you purchased last year, so I have a better idea of how the information you're talking about was presented to you. Back then, it was in a large window entitled "Important Information You Must Read About Your First Backup". The title was in big, bold, red letters. (We changed to a different style of windows in the installer over the last six months or so. The same information is presented, but in a series of smaller windows that hopefully folks are less likely to ignore.) And yes, we also include this information a few clicks into our searchabe FAQ section.

In that window, we went into a lot of detail about what is and what is not backed up, including mentioning .exe files and system files. At that time, you're right - video files were included by default in folders that were already selected for backup, and so that information wasn't presented to you.

That change was made by customer request, by the way. A lot of folks found that their backup was being bloated by a lot of large (easily replacable) video files, and requested that we change the default so that only the folders containing video explicitly selected are included. That way, the irreplacable video files (baby's first steps, etc.) can be included and the DVD rips, podcasts, etc. can be skipped. I'm sorry we didn't get the word out about that change as well as we should have.

The current version of Carbonite indicates that folders contain items that aren't selected for backup by showing a green dot with a hole in the center (a green donut) so that at a glance, you can see that a folder includes items that aren't being backed up.

An upcoming version will also include the option to override the exceptions list for any type of file. For example, you could right-click an .exe file and select to back up files of that type in folders selected for backup. Less labor-intensive than now, but without changing the default settings, which are preferable to the majority of our users.

Regarding your last point, the only real policy change was the change to how video files are handled. The other file types have been excluded by default since the beginning. I'm sorry that you feel we've changed too much to continue to meet your needs.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc

Thanks for your reply, but it doesn't address the concerns I raised. If you read my post carefully, you'll see that -after learning the hard way- I understand that certain file types are not backed up by default.

To paraphrase, my complaints are:

1) At the time that I purchase my subscription (last year), your basic promise was "unlimited backups". When paid my $100, I was not told anything about exception lists, etc. and the client app seemed to be backing up everything I asked it to. Now it isn't, and on your website you seem to be backing away from the "backup everything" messaging, but that's not my problem.
2) Putting the exception list in a FAQ three clicks into your website doesn't make it OK. Throwing up a huge red warning message when files that I asked to be backed up are NOT being backed up would be a step in the right direction, but...
3) Your exception list includes files that probably 90%+ of users NEED to be backed up (home movies, .exe's, files with underscores in the name, etc.) which makes the service not only useless to most people, but dangerous (because they think that their backup is complete when it isn't). At best, it makes the service ridiculously labor-intensive, because every single time I create, save, copy or download a new file, I have to manually check to see if Carbonite is ignoring it or not. The suggestion that I memorize a long list of rules about what's backed up by default, what's not backed up by default, what's not allowed to be backed up at all, unless it's under a certain size, or in a certain directory, or if I have a paid subscription, etc. etc. is ludicrous, and beyond the capabilities of 99% of the general population.

I'm disappointed because I loved the install-and-forget functionality of the original client app, but your policy changes have destroyed its usefulness. Clearly the "back up everything" promise was biting off more than you could chew, but these crazy new restrictions are not the solution. If people are uploading 200 GB worth of pirated movies, charge them more, but don't mess with those of us with 30GB of legit data to backup.

Hi Nick,

I understand your concerns about the files that are excluded from Carbonite backups by default. I'm really sorry that you were not aware of this, though. We do our best to get the information out to customers, both in the messages displayed when you first install and in our FAQ's on our website.

There is more detail about exactly what is backed up at http://www.carbonite.com/CustomerSupp... If you have additional questions about what is and isn't backed up by default, please write to customersupport@carbonite.com with "ATTN: Len" in the subject line, and I'll be happy to provide as much detail as you need.

Please let me know if we can assist you.

Sincerely,

Len Pallazola
Manager, Customer Service Systems
Carbonite, Inc.