LIB53's dashboard

You're right in that you can do that song-aligator, but like rsjtdrjgfuzkfg said "the program can't decide it. So the developer has to say that it is compatible". I think that what we should do instead is have some sort of method to where skins that still work, but aren't updated anymore, can get authorized by maybe other developers or users for the latest version of Songbird. For example, you claim that iBird works, so if perhaps 9 other people agree, then the max version is automatically bumped. I really hate losing feathers or add-ons when a new release comes out. It can get annoying having to manually install and bump version yourself.

I'm joining <3>
:)
..and now back to learning XUL... – LIB53, on June 30, 2009 01:01

Hi Lib, I'm answering here, I think that makes sense ;)

warning! long post! :>

I can't help coding on this project (too busy with keeping all the other stuff up to date and still have a playlist for pure player to code), but maybe I can give you some advice on how to change the Layout.

Basically, there are 3 ways to change the Layout:

1.) XUL Overlays
2.) Dynamical modifications via Javascript.
3.) Using a complete new XUL-Layout.

I have worked with all these: Pane Buttons are using 1), Q4 uses 2) and Pure Player uses 3). Here is my advice, but I discovered all this only by myself, though, I might wrong here and there. Anyway, what I found out:

No 1.) Is best & easiest for adding things to Layout, but it was a mess, when I tried to move existing elements with it, especially the once that are "binded" (these have red children in the DOM-Inspector). If I tried to move the tab-bar for Q4 that way, it basically stopped working, I think because all the Listeners are broke by the movement. Also it is difficult to apply the Overlay only to a specific feather.

No 2.) Is good for moving/changing & adding things to the Layout. One big benefit is, that you have more control over how and when things are moved, than with Overlays. But it's a lot more work than Overlays, so I wouldn't use it for just adding things. Also there might be modifications, that can't be done that way. Another reason i prefer this over No. 3 was, that I think it won't have to adept the skin very much, to get it to work with future Songbird-Version (if they add some buttons here and there, I don't have to repeat these changes. I would have, if I used No. 3)

No 3.) Gives you full control over the look. Pure Player wouldn't be possible otherwise. However, it is very much work. Only the few elements I have in PP took quite a while for me, to understand them and get them to work. But this is the cleanest and most professional way, because Songbird doesn't have to change anything (that might go wrong), it just takes the new Layout-file and uses that one. You can do like everything with that.

If I see your Mockups, No. 1) is not the best choice. I guess your changes might be possible with No. 2), but I think they are a little bit too complicated (status-bar under the progressbar, f.e.). So I think the way to do this right, would be No. 3. As I said, it's a lot of work, you might even have to change override some Bindings here and there. But it's possible.

If I were you, I would take a really close look on the More Gonzo-Addon: It's "Alternate" view does pretty much exactly the ground-work you need: implementing a new Layout-XUL, that is basically the default XUL file, only with some small changes.
That's what you should try to get to work in the first place: Create an extension that loads your own copy of Songbirds default XUL as a different layout. If you did this, start changing your layout-XUL slowly and try to adjust it step for step to your needs.
For how to get a working AlbumArt into the Media-Pane, take a look at Pure Player or Medium Player (it requires some JS-Work, too).

Besides the mdc (extremely useful!!!), what I found really helpful is the Search through Songbird source. It helped me a lot, to see how they do some things, and it helps with songbirds own functions & feature (that are not documented in mdc, and only a little bit on the SB-Wiki).

Sorry for the long post, but it still would be nice, if a professional dev could comment it, to tell us if my post is completely nuts, or if I'm correct, at least here and there ;)

Thanks, that explained a whole lot. I think I'll do option three, and i also believe my little experiments with DOM inspector makes alot more sense now. I'm still open to developers, but i think i'll begin developing Focus. – LIB53, on June 29, 2009 01:49

Thanks for offering your ideas and help Murphy.

Okay, i guess I'll keep the new volume bar there because it seems to be better overall. As for the progress bar, I'm not sure if that is possible to do either, but i think it really does help with keeping the interface clean. I had two ideas for the status bar: my first idea was that it autohides, kind of like Google Chrome does. My second idea was that considering the pane toggle buttons are part of the status bar, i could just turn that part into a status bar, but your idea seems like an improvement to this one.

The forward and back buttons do have a function while browsing through your media pages, even if it's rarely used by you or me. I think that should stay as is. And did you see the tabs on the second picture? I personally think they look a little chunky, but once again, that's the idea. Also, the media page navigator should probably be a separate add-on so other feathers can share the function. I can't code that, so I'm hoping a developer stops by here and offers his/her skill.

When you say straight, do you mean vertical or horizontal? I tried horizontal at first and it looked out of place. Maybe if keep it the same and just put a vertical bar? I know it seems cramped, but i can't put album art underneath pane toggle buttons. It's small enough as is.

One of my aims while designing this was to rid the necessity of the service pane. The service pane just takes up space and has always bothered me. So the text at the top (Library, Playlist1, Playlist2) is a navigator to switch through media pages such as Downloads, Concerts, Releases, and your playlists. The new tab page is part of this "rid the service pane" effort, and i can't wait until it's implemented. (I'm following the page you linked me too now)

This is how it looks horizontal:

Now that i look at it, i guess it doesn't look too bad :P
The arrows need a little work, but you get the idea.

That's a great idea. How would you get about this though? I wouldn't even mind if it's just a media view.

Well a good starting place would be here: http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/...

From there we could make a plugin for this: http://www.kuliniewicz.org/music-applet/

maybe this would work?