Shane Martz's dashboard

A comment on the question "GPS/WiFi location fails at times" in Skyhook Wireless:

I'm sorry you had to redact all the useful information you offered. I wasn't trying to pry into trade secrets--I was just trying to find out why I was having location problems and learn more about how the system works. – Chris, on August 19, 2008 11:24

A comment on the question "GPS/WiFi location fails at times" in Skyhook Wireless:

Thanks again. I turned on the cell part of my phone and was able to get a GPS position (which, incidentally, was less accurate than the WPS position). I'm looking forward to full XPS capability. – Chris, on August 11, 2008 02:35

Shane Martz replied on August 11, 2008 02:30 to the question "GPS/WiFi location fails at times" in Skyhook Wireless:

The details of any specific deployment are not public, but it has been widely acknowledged that iPhone’s user focused approach to location gives better availability and accuracy than other products for both indoor and outdoor usage.

[This reply has been edited.]

A comment on the question "GPS/WiFi location fails at times" in Skyhook Wireless:

Thanks very much for your quick response (on a Sunday night, no less!).

So the iPhone doesn't actually use your XPS 2.0 for positioning, but instead makes a choice itself whether to use cell, wifi, or A-GPS, and A-GPS depends on cell data? I had assumed that with any kind of network connectivity and with a wifi position, it'd be able to get a GPS position pretty quickly, and it would seem to be unnecessary to tie it to cell data at all. Also, I have gotten GPS positions in Germany when I had the cell part of my phone turned off and only had wifi connectivity, but I had earlier turned on the phone part, so maybe it was able to learn whatever it needed to learn at that time. I really wish I had access to technical documentation, so that I wouldn't have to do so much detective work to figure out how this stuff works ;)

I'm glad to hear that you're still working to hone the system. These mysterious times when I'm unable to get a wifi position at all are the most bothersome, since I'm left wondering if my hardware is to blame or whether there's some fault in the software. – Chris, on August 11, 2008 02:23

Shane Martz replied on August 11, 2008 02:02 to the question "Poor Coverage areas" in Skyhook Wireless:

Currently we are in a major campaign to scan these other areas. We should have these areas updated soon. Keep checking for the coverage, we add data every day to our database.

Shane Martz replied on August 11, 2008 01:57 to the question "GPS/WiFi location fails at times" in Skyhook Wireless:

Thanks for your interest Chris. iPhone 3G finds the location via GPS or by triangulating the position using Wi-Fi and cellular towers. When outside of the home network, these location services can be affected by issues like availability/quality of international data roaming and of cellular tower information and by coverage of the Wi-Fi Positioning Service (WPS). Additionally when the device has moved 1000s of miles getting the initial GPS location fix can take significantly longer than usual.

Any one of the issues might have caused the issues you were experiencing. We are actively expanding WPS coverage in South Korea and across Asia Pacific. Together with our partners we are working to ensure that users have access to the most accurate and available location service.

[This reply has been edited.]

carolyna replied on August 07, 2008 19:54 to the question "Update and/or remove Access Point from database" in Skyhook Wireless:

My AP is showing up at an address it hasn't been at for over 2 years. Your "algorithms" aren't very up to date!

A comment on the question "Excluding travel routers" in Skyhook Wireless:

I have a 3G phone, but which locate me button are you referring to? I can't find any way to shake the phone from this notion that it's in Florida. I turned the phone radio on (I had been using just wifi) in the hope that it might learn more about its location from cell towers, but it's still stuck on Florida. – Chris, on July 25, 2008 02:47

Shane Martz replied on July 24, 2008 19:50 to the question "Can the MAC address of my iPod Touch be used for Skyhook?" in Skyhook Wireless:

Yes, it would be a paid job. Fill out application at

https://driver.skyhookwireless.com/dm...

After that we will review you and let you know from there.

rs7588 marked one of Shane Martz's replies in Skyhook Wireless as useful. Shane Martz replied to the question "Can the MAC address of my iPod Touch be used for Skyhook?".

rs7588 replied on July 24, 2008 17:09 to the question "Can the MAC address of my iPod Touch be used for Skyhook?" in Skyhook Wireless:

Ok, I was very curious about that. I would love it if you could do a scan in my area. I'm in the south New jersey area, Cumberland County to be exact. If I wanted to be a driver for you all I'd have to do is fill out an app correct? Would this be a paid job?

Shane Martz replied on July 24, 2008 15:17 to the question "Can the MAC address of my iPod Touch be used for Skyhook?" in Skyhook Wireless:

No! That would not make you able to find your location. 1 We dont scan mobile devices or use them in requesting location, only wireless access points. 2 if you added your MAC address of your own devce, and then you are requesting from that MAC our database would ignore you!

The only thing you can do is add the access points around you. What is the area do you live in? We are doing a major scan project right now and I can request we drive your area. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Shane Martz replied on July 24, 2008 15:08 to the question "Excluding travel routers" in Skyhook Wireless:

If you hit the “locate me” button again it will activate the GPS. That if it is the 3G model.

Totally based on the fact it sees your router, and it has nothing else to go on it will place you in Florida. I will try and get your MAC ignored. This may take a few days to reflect the change.

A comment on the question "Excluding travel routers" in Skyhook Wireless:

Right now I'm in Japan, in an area where there are no access points but my own travel router visible to my iPhone. The maps program has located me in Florida based on my travel router, and I don't seem to be able to persuade it to use the GPS to figure out where I really am. I'd like to use the phone to update my position on Loopt, but it zeroes right in on Florida based on the one wifi signal it sees, and there doesn't seem to be any way to make it reconsider.

The router's MAC address is 00-11-24-00-40-31. Can you delete it from the system manually? If you do, will the iPhone then be able to use GPS to locate itself, even though it might take a long time since it won't have any idea where it is (the way a normal GPS would when it starts cold at an unknown location)? – Chris, on July 24, 2008 03:15

Shane Martz replied on July 21, 2008 20:19 to the question "Driver tech support?" in Skyhook Wireless:

Tech support number is also listed in the Driver Manual sent to all drivers. In addition i have emailed you the number. Please let me know if you have any other issues.

A comment on the question "Excluding travel routers" in Skyhook Wireless:

Thanks for your response! I'm headed out on a trip, and I'll be using the router both in places you have scanned and places you haven't. I'll see what happens. – Chris, on July 21, 2008 14:05

Shane Martz replied on July 20, 2008 23:34 to the question "How do I remove an access point?" in Skyhook Wireless:

You said that you were concerned about people locating you. Our database only records you wireless signal and tags it to a GPS location. When people locate using our service they just send a snapshot of those signals and we tell them what GPS location they are at. As far as anything about you personally, or your network we have no information on that. Just the Wi-Fi signal.

However if you would still like to have you AP removed please send me the routers MAC address and I will see what I can do.

Shane Martz replied on July 20, 2008 23:27 to the question "Update and/or remove Access Point from database" in Skyhook Wireless:

There would be no need to remove your AP from our database. We have complex algorithms that detect AP movement and would either update the database to its new location or ignore it until our drivers have rescanned you AP.

I hope this information helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Shane Martz replied on July 20, 2008 23:23 to the question "What accuracy is provided with your service?" in Skyhook Wireless:

As it is right now in a city we can get you under 100 Ft accuracy. In a controled inviroment like a musean with multipul access points tracked you could get accuracy better than that. That number I could not get for you, as it varys based on conditions.

What i will do is inquire about more accurate estimates with our engineers.

Shane Martz replied on July 20, 2008 23:12 to the question "Excluding travel routers" in Skyhook Wireless:

Hello Chris, I can answer your question for you. We do detect routers that show up in different areas, and then ignore them. However these would have to be in areas that were scanned. If you move your router to a new location we haven’t scanned it would locate you back in FL. As far as altering data for other users you don’t need to worry, they might have an issue near your hotel room. But its not a long term issue. It would really only matter if we scanned your router by one of our drivers. But at the point our algorithm would ignore your router.

We do not have any immediate plans to add updates for traveling routers/APs. But I will bring this up to our engineering team to see if this is something we could add.

I hope this cleared up some of you concerns, please feel free to write back on any questions you might have.

P.S. Submit to me your routers MAC address and i can update your router in our database.