Wayne's dashboard

The Black Egg hatched and its yoke was as of Fire. All that was of wing took to the air to sing in chorus. And the Garden's walls began to crack and splinter.

Here's a thought:

I was talking about mobile devices like netbooks with Songbird running on it and syncing with other versions of Songbird.

Well, when Apple released the iPhone 3GS they really pushed the concept of "this isn't just a phone, it's like developing for a desktop". This stuck in my head and while I was out for a walk I thought about the more open devices like the Pre and Android phones.

I don't expect there to be an Android version of Songbird any time soon, there's too much to do already, but if the protocol for "blending librarys"/syncing was open, then these "Fledgling" devices could access everything Songbird has to offer when on your home network and store files for when you're not.

Anything, and I mean *anything* that could play music should be able to sync the same way. Boxee, XBMC, Cell Phones, PMP's, PSP, Gameboy DS's, Wiget enabled TV's, etc....

This is an extension of another idea suggestion I've had: http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...

But I never really thought about how similar the two goals are.

I just think it could be kind of cool to see Songbird have a open way for everyone to Sync with it. Right now, you're trying to support all these various devices, how about getting them to support Songbird instead.

Maybe instead of "Made for iPod" we could start seeing "Sings with Songbird".

It's left as an exercise for The Pioneers of the Inevitable.

(That's why I'm an "ideas guy" and not a developer. ;) – Wayne, on June 05, 2009 20:52

If you're referring to an iTunes shared library, then yes - kinda of.

But more like a integrated seamless shared library.

One PC (or home server) with the music stored on it running the Songbird "master" sharing the music - every other desktop in the house would "blend" that library into it's own (if it has its own files, but it wouldn't need them, everything could be on the master).

That's similar to how iTunes shared library works now, except for the blending part, but I'd like it so that the "master's" files act if they were local. Play counts, playlists and ratings would be synced back to the master and if you plug in your iPod/PMP to one of the clients you can sync/load music to that as well.

But for laptops/netbooks/etc their Songbird client could copy music (whole library or in part) from the master to themselves automatically (maybe base it off rules "Store 2 gigs of the most played songs locally") for when they're off the home network/out of the house. Then when they come back they can sync up with the master just like they were a type of iPod.

Does that make things clearer?

One thing I'd like to stress, the master should have support for running more then one database for the music (or Sonbird be able to run more then one master instance). My music tastes and my girlfriend's are wildly different but all the music is in one place. And I don't need any fights over how a "New Kids on the Block" track should be rated. (Or those plays showing up on my Last.fm account. ;-)

(I use bracketed asides a lot (maybe too much)) – Wayne, on June 05, 2009 20:36

Syncing Songbird with Songbird

The What:

What I'm suggesting is that Songbird have a way to communicate between multiple versions of itself to sync both songs and meta data.


Using myself as an example, I have a file server in my basement with 100 Gig's of MP3's on it. My laptop has significantly less storage then that. In fact I don't keep any songs on my laptop, Rhythmbox reads the MP3's straight off the server. Which works as long as I'm on my home network, but I'm screwed out of the house. Plus I have another machine hooked up to the stereo and (for now) the ratings/play count/etc are separate and a chore to try and keep sync'ed.


How I picture this working (once again from my example) is that either the file server or the stereo machine would run a copy of Songbird which would act as the "master" then my laptop could connect to the master similar to how you connect to a shared library but with the ability copy songs locally and update the stats as necessary.


The Why (for people other then just me):

People's music libraries are growing ever larger just at the same time as ultra portable laptops are becoming more and more popular. What this generally means is that people are often left with far more music then they can (currently) carry around with them.


Usually another computer will act as a main store and the laptop will only have a copy of a portion of that. Which leads to multiple libraries with separate meta data stats like play counts and song ratings.


This is obviously parallel to iTunes as the main store and the iPod as the portable. (Or Songbird and the DAP of your choice.) Which has been working pretty well for a few years now. However the rise of the ultra portable introduces a new class of "DAP" to the mix which has the power of the full client, just not the storage.


Think of it as Songbird needing a Nest to go home to.

This reply was created from a merged topic.

Expanding on the "Collective Listenings", Warner Bros is letting The Watchmen Blu-Ray "connect" to Facebook to organize "Community Screenings".

http://gizmodo.com/5250577/the-watchm...

Songbird Facebook app perhaps?

For those that are interested, and up to the task, Boxee is having a App Dev Challenge - build something cool and win stuff.

http://blog.boxee.tv/2009/05/05/annou...

Right away, comment #2 is about a way to get playlists into Boxee. (Hint, hint.)

Who couldn't use a little fame and fortune?

That would be my preferred solution, but right now I'm open to anything. I've specifically put off purchasing a Squeezebox (or other like device) until Songbird can play nicely with it. – Wayne, on April 04, 2009 16:25

I was thinking more along the lines of running Songbird on your PC which you could sit at and modify playlists, ratings, sync your iPod, etc and then that Songbird could sync itself with whatever device is running Boxee (or other app) so there would only be one Songbird installed (unless you had a need for more).

That being said, the "cloud model" could allow for a lot of extra benefits. If you had the meta data for every track of every Songbird user, what could you extract from that?

Another thread was discussing having Songbird use an external source to set ratings for unrated tracks.

http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...

If there was a cloud which could average the collected ratings of everyone, you could set a base for every track you have without having to go through it all yourself. (And with 17,000+ tracks, that could be a bonus.)

Well, the way I originally saw this was having a separate Songbird app running for something like Boxee to poll in realtime.

But, there's no reason why a larger media app like Boxee couldn't sync with Songbird sporadically. I've written a little about Songbird being able to sync with other copies of itself for laptops or just multiple computers: http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t... (That's another Songbird page. ;)

My biggest concern is to reduce the amount of duplication. If I'm putting a lot of work into my Songbird library, I don't want to have to do the same tasks for Boxee or anything else that I'd be playing music on.

For those that might be interested, I suggested something similar but from the other point of view for Songbird.

http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...

I see the two apps being like Chocolate and Peanut Butter. :)

Well, for starters, I have more the one person accessing the same files with different music tastes.

I have an 100 gig library on a read-only network share which is accessed by at least two people. It's read-only to prevent accidental deletions from a variety of possibilities but even if it wasn't, who's metadata get priority? Will it be a tug of war? – Wayne, on March 25, 2009 23:40

Um, that's what I was trying to get at. Why only allow one "widget" to be open in the side bar(s)?

I'd like to have my Last.fm friends showing as well as MorningPeeps. – Wayne, on March 17, 2009 21:52

How about removing the artificial limit on what can be opened in a side bar?

Right now the menu button only allows you to choose what is displayed, why not switch that to "On/Off" style? On my small little monitor I might not be able to use it, but people using 28" screens or larger could fit a lot more.

The main center piece would be reserved for media views, but for the sides we should be able to tick on as many boxes as we have screen space for.

Kinda like the sidebar in Vista or a Google Gadget.

Thanks. It's nice to be recognized for my unsung genius. ;-)

I've started playing with the MorningPeeps addon and creating smart playlists for various times but that's for day of the week at best and starts playing the songs automatically.

My thinking for this is more along the lines of Songbird constantly reviewing, thinking about and rearranging songs regardless if it's playing or not. Hell, why not have it check the local weather every 20 min's and adjust accordingly? Let it boost up "Rainy Day People" if a shower starts and when the sky clears slip in "No Rain" by Blind Melon.

Maybe use a laptop's ambient light sensor? (Somehow..)

I originally thought of using location services to show where a laptop was. But how about using the features of a modern smartphone to tell when your "Significant Other" is out of the house and you can play Nine Inch Nails or Icecube without getting in trouble. (Or even better, culling those tracks from the playlist when Songbird sees she's on the way home!)

Essentially, years from now when the robot revolution has enslaved us all, this Songbird feature will be seen as the true birth of SkyNet. (SkyNest?)

And since I have you attention, here's another little idea I'd like to promote a little bit: http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...

Hi Boris, this doesn't seem to have made it into 1.1, any chance of a 1.1.1? :)

Also, quick thought: single click to pause, double click to pause after current track? – Wayne, on March 15, 2009 14:54

Thanks for the idea, just found a way to add it to the Add-On section without having to repost it completely. – Wayne, on March 15, 2009 14:11