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Does Postbox support open source development? Why not help make Thunderbird better, instead of spinning off a commercial email client?
Instead of forking into a new product, why not help build Thunderbird into a better program? I love what you're doing with Postbox, you're obviously great developers. Why don't you guys just combine your talents and efforts with the Mozilla team and just build a better, open product instead of trying to spin off another commercial email client. I gave it a shot, but I'll definitely stick with Thunderbird, because I support open, unified development.
From your online FAQ-- "How much will Postbox cost? Postbox is currently in the early BETA stage of development and pricing has not yet been announced."
From your online FAQ-- "How much will Postbox cost? Postbox is currently in the early BETA stage of development and pricing has not yet been announced."
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The short answer is that we all used to work for Mozilla, but decided to do something new.
With respect to the open source question, this is outlined on our web page at:
http://www.postbox-inc.com/third_part...
Portions of the code included in or with Postbox software contain or are derived from third party code, including without limitation, open source software. All use of such third party software is subject to and governed by the following licenses:
Mozilla Public License version 1.1 - http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.1.html
(Note: a Source Code version of certain portions of this software that may constitute "Covered Code" (as defined in the Mozilla Public License) that you may use, modify, and distribute is available to you free-of-charge from: www.postbox-inc.com/coveredcode under the Mozilla Public License and other open source software licenses.)
Yahoo Public License - http://www.zimbra.com/license/yahoo_p...
Facebook Firefox Toolbar Software License - http://developers.facebook.com/toolbar/
The MIT License - http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mi...
WordNet Release 3.0 - http://wordnet.princeton.edu/3.0/LICENSE
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Inappropriate?1. I guess it's normal for people to try to do something different, not only as a product, but also as an approach... open-source vs commercial... Postbox guys are not the first and sure not the last...
2. We still can support open-source development, the very simple/easy one would be to file bugs on Thunderbird on features that we've seen in Postbox and currently not seen/developed in Thunderbird, etc
3. It's very much normal to expect some sort of output in monetary sense when you invest (very basic, you need descent computers, servers to handle what Postbox developers are doing, you need some sort of office, you need bread and butter, etc)
4. If i'm not mistaken, these (or at least some of them) are actually coming from Netscape --> Mozilla team
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This answers the question
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I agree generally and in principle, but where do early adopters (I.e., Q&A) fit here (folks testing and spreading the wrod)? -
Inappropriate?If the Postbox team were to abandoned their product and contribute to T-Bird instead, who's to say whether (or how soon) T-bird end up with all the useful bells and whistles now in Postbox?
Postbox may be T-bird based, but I'd never use T-Bird in its present form, and Postbox offers 9 out of every 10 things I want in an email program, and many things I didn't know I wanted until I started using it (pinned To-Dos!).
I spent a year trying every email app I could get my hands on to replace the defunct Eudora, and for my needs Postbox was the winner. T-Bird, on the other hand, was ruled out VERY early in the process.2 Comments Add a comment
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I understand your point. Tbird has the potential to do whatever you need your email program to do, just like Firefox does. The reason Tbird does NOT is because there isn't much help in the development community. Mozilla is doing one heck of a job, but it could be better. I understand what Postbox are trying to do. If you have the talent, why not build something better off open source code, and monetize it? The sad thing is that as people support products like these, less support is given to others (Tbird).
What most users don't realize is that now you've made a commercial, closed application so popular, that no one uses the open source application anymore. When development ceases to exist on Tbird, what then? Now innovation slows yet again and you have to go buy Outlook or Postbox for innovative desktop email. If that's the model you guys want, go for it.
Again, I'll stick to supporting open source. -
I hear ya. I wish there were more collaboration on Tbird like there is on Firefox.
Unfortunately, with me running out of options for email apps I like (there are exactly two), I'm just not willing to wait and hope Tbird gets improved upon enough, and in the exact ways I want, to meet my needs. But Postbox is 90% there already, so here I am.
I hope the Postbox gang gives back to Tbird in some way to help keep it thriving.
The underlying problem is that email apps have become a very "one size fits all" environment. Every damn one of them is single-window with mailbox sidebar, mailbox pane on top, message pane below. The only option given by some in regards to UI is the vertical 3-panel. In terms of layout, everything's a clone. Nobody — Thunderbird included — is thinking outside the box. Or at least, those that do think outside the box are so far very bare-bones and in alpha or unstable early beta stages).
The first significant improvement in email UI in years — not bells and whistles, but significant underlying UI architecture — has been the addition of tabbed browsing. It's the only thing that competes with old Eudora for Mac's system of separate windows for each mailbox. I REQUIRE having several mailboxes open at once (can't imagine how anyone can function otherwise) and I like Postbox's tab handling best (well, second best, but the other app is in development hell with poor user support). So, as I said, here I am.
Better stop now. Get the feeling I'm rambling. -
Inappropriate?I consider myself to be a strong supporter of open source software, but I can see the place to iniciatives like Postbox.
What they must do is to never forget their roots, and to give back to Thunderbird part of their research and improvements the same way Thunderbird gives them a basis to work with.
Not the best example, but kind of like Wine and Crossover...
I’m confident
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Agree 100% on that. :)
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+1.
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Inappropriate?The short answer is that we all used to work for Mozilla, but decided to do something new.
With respect to the open source question, this is outlined on our web page at:
http://www.postbox-inc.com/third_part...
Portions of the code included in or with Postbox software contain or are derived from third party code, including without limitation, open source software. All use of such third party software is subject to and governed by the following licenses:
Mozilla Public License version 1.1 - http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.1.html
(Note: a Source Code version of certain portions of this software that may constitute "Covered Code" (as defined in the Mozilla Public License) that you may use, modify, and distribute is available to you free-of-charge from: www.postbox-inc.com/coveredcode under the Mozilla Public License and other open source software licenses.)
Yahoo Public License - http://www.zimbra.com/license/yahoo_p...
Facebook Firefox Toolbar Software License - http://developers.facebook.com/toolbar/
The MIT License - http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mi...
WordNet Release 3.0 - http://wordnet.princeton.edu/3.0/LICENSE
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this answers the question
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Inappropriate?So for beta users, basically the proposition is: be my Q&A tester for free, endure my bugs, I'm comercial when I want (hint: pay now -- caching) and open when I want (free code, free testers, free extensions, etc.).
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?Thanks for all of the questions and comments.
At the end of the day, we felt that the best way to do something truly different and innovative, to take chances and to iterate quickly, was by starting something new.
(That's not to say that there's anything wrong with Thunderbird, but with 10 million or so current users, it's harder to that ship to change course.)
It turns out that email users were desperate for something new as well, and many Postbox testers see this as an opportunity to help shape the future of an application they use several hours a day. And we rely on user feedback to help prioritize development as much as we can.
We also ask people to help fund development by purchasing the product, and this is a good thing as Postbox's success will be dependent upon how well we serve our users.
So we're all in this together. Everyone is contributing ideas, taking risks, and investing in different ways, and ultimately, we think Postbox will be a better product because of it.
At the very least, it's a new option that didn't exist before, and more choice is always a good thing.5 Comments Add a comment
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Sherman: I don't think you have answered my question. [BTW: Do you realize that when you say "but with 10 million or so current users, it's harder to that ship to change course" you are conditioning the future of your commercial product? At what user base size do we dump postbox? Do you also realize that everything starts as something new, by definition? As which point is postbox old and we dump it?] Anyway, I appreciate what you are doing ! Much so ! I appreciate you use open source too and make something commercial (I am an OSS contributor), not very many successes in turning an OSS product into a comercial one. But my question is: where is the break you are giving early adopters and promoters of your product? Are you starting at release 1.0 by trapping users? Statement: you should give free licenses for beta users. JMHO of course. But, when you say "this as an opportunity to help shape the future of an application they use several hours a day. And we rely on user feedback to help prioritize development as much as we can" -- that is a given for something you pay for, is it not? that's not different for beta testers than others, no? Or after Beta user feedback goes to /dev/null? Thanks again for taking the time to answer my queries. -- Carlos.
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@Carlos our position on this can be found within this topic:
http://getsatisfaction.com/postbox/to... -
Carlos, I was hoping it would be free to beta testers as well, but you do realize you're making a big stink over what would amount to about a penny a day, if you spread it out over a year?
I've submitted (through these forums and through direct contacts) probably 200+ notes on Postbox functionality, and as a result — sometimes as a direct result — Postbox is now 90-95% exactly the email client I want. Even if I was hoping I'd get a freebie, the near-ideal email client is well worth a penny a day to me. -
The product demo video Carlos linked to: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/700742 clearly shows you guys did specify Postbox as being a "free email client", but it seems that has changed. I'm glad I didn't spend a lot of time testing the beta out.
Sherman, Will the Postbox code ever be released open source? -
Correct, a year ago we thought we would be leading with a free product. We've since decided that it would be best to lead with a premium product, and we'll continue to explore options for a free product over time.
This is covered in detail here:
http://www.getsatisfaction.com/postbo...
You open source question is covered here:
http://www.getsatisfaction.com/postbo... -
This reply was removed on 08/07/09.
see the change log -
This reply was removed on 08/08/09.
see the change log
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