Loading Profile...
Best method for sorting/organising music files?
First up, apologies for the long post... :D
I've been grappling with finding the best system for sorting music files on the filesystem and the best folder/file naming convention and think I have a good idea for a way of doing it.
All methods I have seen to date have flaws when dealing with certain scenarios, (like compilations or singles) so I was trying to think of a method that has no issues handling any of these.
I came to the conclusion that the actual MP3 (or FLAC etc) files should be in the following format:
artist_-_song.ext
My reasoning behind this is that this should be enough to uniquely identify every song you have. Track numbers, album names etc are only really relevant when you want to play the whole album in order. Spaces can cause issues with some filesystems and can easily be interchanged with underscores by any sorting application.
Now, in order to handle albums, compilations and OSTs etc, you use playlists. Then the order of songs etc is maintained and your music managing app knows which songs belong to which albums. You can still easily select an album to play from your music manager.
Now, the clever part is, if you want to sync to an MP3 player etc that doesn't support playlists, you can have rulesets in the music manager that will rename the files on the fly when syncing to be the format you would prefer on your portable player.
The only downside I can see to this method is the folder structure.
Would it be better to have the songs all lumped into one folder and album playlists in another?
It would still be easy enough to play songs directly without needing to access the music manager and they would still have their metadata intact.
Anyone care to give me some feedback on this idea.
I'd like to iron out any potential issues that I've missed.
Cheers,
airchie
I've been grappling with finding the best system for sorting music files on the filesystem and the best folder/file naming convention and think I have a good idea for a way of doing it.
All methods I have seen to date have flaws when dealing with certain scenarios, (like compilations or singles) so I was trying to think of a method that has no issues handling any of these.
I came to the conclusion that the actual MP3 (or FLAC etc) files should be in the following format:
artist_-_song.ext
My reasoning behind this is that this should be enough to uniquely identify every song you have. Track numbers, album names etc are only really relevant when you want to play the whole album in order. Spaces can cause issues with some filesystems and can easily be interchanged with underscores by any sorting application.
Now, in order to handle albums, compilations and OSTs etc, you use playlists. Then the order of songs etc is maintained and your music managing app knows which songs belong to which albums. You can still easily select an album to play from your music manager.
Now, the clever part is, if you want to sync to an MP3 player etc that doesn't support playlists, you can have rulesets in the music manager that will rename the files on the fly when syncing to be the format you would prefer on your portable player.
The only downside I can see to this method is the folder structure.
Would it be better to have the songs all lumped into one folder and album playlists in another?
It would still be easy enough to play songs directly without needing to access the music manager and they would still have their metadata intact.
Anyone care to give me some feedback on this idea.
I'd like to iron out any potential issues that I've missed.
Cheers,
airchie
I’m excited
2
people like this idea
I like this idea!
Tell me when this idea gets some attention.
The more people who like this idea, the more it gets noticed.
The more people who like this idea, the more it gets noticed.
-
-
Inappropriate?Hi airchi,
I know it can be a bummer when you take the time to expound on a cool idea and don't hear anything back right away. We just released Songbird 1.2 so people are really focused on troubleshooting new features and upgrade issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your idea seems inline with a topic we have over here: http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t... .
If you agree, let me know and I can merge them together which should illicit more of a community response for you as that thread already has a lot of followers.
2 Comments
Add a comment
This is one of the best points
-
Thanks Laura,
I think it may be ok to leave it as is.
Maybe we can post a link to this thread from that one you linked to? -
Sure, you're welcome to do that! :0)
-
Inappropriate?I read through your idea, here's my 50Cent:
1.) For me, this would be way to much work. Most of the music I get, is a complete album in one folder. But the namings of the files are totally different, sometimes they are even just named "track1.mp3, track2.mp3,..." with songtitle & artist only in metadata. Sometimes there is a playlist included, sometimes not. Sometimes the metadata is incorrect. (That's why I don't trust any automated Music Management like iTunes or Songbird does).
All I do is to rename the folder to "artist - albumname" or only "albumname" (for soundtracks or compilations) and put it in my E:\Music\ - Folder. More time I am not willing to spend on my files.
I started up like you, with renaming & normalizing everything with different kinds of automation-tools, but after a long time and lots of music handling like that, I figured out, that the time I spend wasn't worth the little profit. Now I only use my Music Library Software (Songbird) to listen everything, or sometimes the "1by1 Player" to listen to a specific album via the folder structure. I don't care about file-names etc anymore... (except for the folder-naming as stated above). I'm more happy with this way.
2.) But different people, different need... so about your idea: It seems to be a reasonable setup, if you are willing to spend that time. I just have a few suggestion:
a) You should rename your files to "tracknumber_-_artist_-_song.ext". It makes many things easier, and some portable players can sort the files by filename only, so if you miss the tracknumber, they will play the songs in the wrong order. Also it is much easier to regenerate a playlist, if you lose it, or to browse the music with the file-explorer.
b) Put everything from one album into one folder. Don't separate your playlist from your mp3-files. Only use one other folder named "playlists" for playlists, that do extend the album (like Mixtapes or Genre-Playlists).
c) So this would be sample structure:
Music file:
E:\Music\Artist_-_Albumname\tracknumber_-_Artist_-_Songtitle.ext
Album playlist:
E:\Music\Artist_-_Albumname\0_-_Artist_-_Albumname.playlistext
Mixed playlist:
E:\Music\Playlists\My_Number_One_Mixtape.playlistext
If you have A LOT of music, and often from the same artists, you should consider a folder structure like this: E:\Music\Artistname\Albumname\
But I wouldn't use this, if it's not necessary.
-
Inappropriate?Hi atreiu, thx for taking the time to read the post and respond.
I'm not sure you fully understood what I was getting at with my suggestion.
I'll try to take what you've said and give my reasoning behind my suggestions.
For me, this would be way to much work. Most ... the metadata is incorrect.
I agree that having a system that would recognize every song/artist/album from a massive collection would be hard but it doesn't mean we should settle for having messy filenames etc.
What I think may work is a heuristics based approach.
Usually, you can glean all kinds of info from the filenames as well as their contents.
So, the automatic manager could scan all metadata, filenames, folder name, playlist info, CUE files etc for info.
Then, once it has a pool of data, it can query the online DBs of music info and try to match artist names and album names etc.
It could then make a guess as to which artist/album it thinks it is.
You could set a percentage threshold and if its certainty is above that it can rename all files correctly, make the correct playlist, make everything tidy and add it to the music library.
Or
Below that threshold, it'll add it to a list of 'uncertain albums' which you can then help it identify before it takes care of the rest.
This however, is a massive job but certainly possible.
We did very similar things in data-mining and machine-learning at uni.
You should rename your files to "tracknumber_-_artist_-_song.ext". It makes many things easier, and some portable players can sort the files by filename only, so if you miss the tracknumber, they will play the songs in the wrong order. Also it is much easier to regenerate a playlist, if you lose it.
Now, the clever part is, if you want to sync to an MP3 player etc that doesn't support playlists, you can have rulesets in the music manager that will rename the files on the fly when syncing to be the format you would prefer on your portable player.
ie
Files on the HDD may be in the format 'artist_-_song.ext' but when you sync it to your mp3 player, you could have the manager rename it on the fly to '01_-_artist_-_song.ext' or 'album/01_-_artist_-_song.ext' or anything you like really.
As I said above, track numbers, album names etc are only really relevant when you want to play the whole album in order.
Sorry for the long post again... :D
I’m thankful and excited
-
Inappropriate?Ah, you want that behavior to be automated by songbird.
Sure, I guess nobody would say something against such an option. But If you studied this at the uni, you know how difficult such things are to make bullet-proof. How hard it is, to cover all problems.
For example if someone listens to audiobooks or classic music, the whole structure is questionable: do you use conductor or componist, reader or writer? But these are only 2 examples, there are a lot more problems. Typos, synonyms, ambiguity, only to name some more...
Theoretically it might be nice, practically it's not possible with Songbird in the near future, imho. (Maybe there are other tools out there, that can already do what you want?)
The best thing you have right now in Songbird is the Music Management Option. It sure will be improved, but I guess it can never be as sophisticated as you want it to be...
And still: I don't see why I need my filenames to be normalized. I only see the filenames, if I copy my files, and then I just copy the complete folder. It's enough for me, that I can understand the filenames & that they have a similar structure in one single folder. That's usually the case by default.
If you want to test some helper Tools, that can semi-automate some parts of the process you are looking for, you should take a closer look these add-ons:
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/...
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/...
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/51
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/...
(I know, not what you are looking for, but the big pro is, they are available in the present ;) -
Inappropriate?Yep, I agree it'd be impossible to make it bullet-proof but using heuristics and maybe sampling anonymous info from all users of songbird (like a mass renaming distributed network, kinda like the folding@home idea) we could get the community working together to make the system as good as can be and set the standard for all players.
Isn't there software that can identify a song when it 'hears' it?
Sure I saw an advert for a service where mobile phone users can call a number, hold their phone to a song playing then after a few seconds, the artist and track name are sent to you...
I’m excited
1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
-
Tunatic does sound analyzing.
MusicBrainz Piccard Tagger is also known to identify the songs & tag them (and maybe rename them? Idk...)
But some kind of auto-tagging is on the Songbird-Roadmap, too. Not sure how it will work, though... -
Inappropriate?Cool, so maybe some sort of combination of sound analysis, heuristic analysis of the info contained in the filename, metadata etc and online DBs of music will make it possible for your music manager software to take any old mess of music and make it useable... :)
I’m excited
EMPLOYEE
CHAMP
