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songbirds new icon not so good, wheres the bird?
whats the go with the deal with the new songbird icon? Ive liked watching the icon change as the egg slowly cracks i was hoping that when version 1 hits a songbird would burst forth but instead Ive got a set of headphones. i dont get it.
I’m wanting to see the bird
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Good work guys. The feedback is much appreciated. The bird + headphone design is pretty sweet -- with or without note as it suggests the bird is singing along! \m/ \m/
A few things to remember:
1. Remember that design is not a job for a committee. It's an individual creative process that evolves with feedback, but creativity shuts down under committee rule. Ultimately, Pioneers of the Inevitable, the organization w/ more than 20 people working full-time on Songbird, has to make decisions with respect to a release. Everything you post is and will continue to be read, considered and often directly responded too -- as I'm doing here. :)
2. Songbird release dates are scheduled, meaning that there's not time between now and our 1.0 release to Windows, OS X and Linux assets from a new app icon design at this point. We shall revisit app icon in our next and each subsequent release.
3. Songbird is highly customizable with add-ons so by all means free to build an add-on for the app icon of your choice. Or use the tools per OS to change the icon. App icons as add-ons is fairly common ex. see Adium's app icon add-ons. And if there's a myriad of app icon add-ons, I'll see to it that there's an app icon add-on section in Songbird add-on site.
So, thanks again for the major helpful feedback. Please remember that we're doing the best we know how to serve you, others like you and probably some others unlike you to the best of our ability. We thrive on your passion, constructive and well-considered feedback.
Chirp!
Rob
The company says
this answers the question
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Hey all, I'm Rob Lord of Songbird.
I do appreciate the feedback. FYI, the new app icon design above comes from the great design shop of MetaLab Design. Expect to see more great work from them from Songbird!
First, our 2D B&W incomparable farting mascot bird, designed by the incredibly talented Jonathan Koshi, will continue to be Songbird's mascot on the Web site, wiki, bugzilla, etc. forever. We love the mascot bird as much as you do.
That said, our mascot bird isn't effective as an application icon. App icons (over-simplifying OS HIGs) are to be a blend of photo-realistic, vector-comic and colorful. Our mascot isn't any of those things and, moreover, we don't want our mascot to change!
FYI, here were some criteria for a new app icon:
Pragmatic Criteria
- Works on light/dark backgrounds
- Looks good at 16x16 to 512x512
- Directionally consistent w/ current Vista, OS X and Ubuntu icon best practices of warm palette and a blend of photo realism and vector
iconic visual design
Esthetic Criteria
- Character personifies the apps qualities e.g.:
--- Engaging, approachable -> cute, warm
--- Badass, innovative -> tussled head feathers, wing and chest feather texture (this one is a bit lacking IMHO, but subtlety is a
virtue)
--- Music-centric -> bird is singing a note
- Embraces our character-as-metaphor-of-app; appeals to inveterate hipsters, innovation champions and maybe even mainstream users
So, my sincerely apologies if this disrupts anyone's expectations. I ask you to give the new birdie a little time to grow on your heart. ;)
Thanks, Rob
I’m thankful.
The company and 3 other people say
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?Sure it change for final-version again. Nightlys always had different icons, so don't worry.
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?I really hope the icon will change before 1.0 final....
The current one isn't much to look at, bring back the old or improve I say!
I’m concerned
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Inappropriate?5 votes!!! I was really waiting for the final icon and felt like... like... a very disappointed child seeing the headphones... Just expected much more eyecandy (like the incredible great graphics presented on the page, shirts and so on)
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Inappropriate?there must be a good graphics designer out there they should send in a few ideas for a cool icon for version 12 Comments Add a comment
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THEY ALREADY HAVE A GREAT GRAPHIC DESIGNER ;-) -
sorry i didn't make myself clear i was meaning a fan art icon.
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Inappropriate?7 votes! I was disappointed when I saw the headphones. I was really hoping for, like hugh said, a bird to become the Songbird Icon
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Inappropriate?If you're looking for technical reasons why the new icon is horrible, here they are:
1. The icon has a very limited palette of dark and gray, which makes it impossible to find on dark taskbars/backgrounds.
2. The icon has very little brand imprint on it -- just a "bird" on the side of the headphones, which is completely wasted since it isn't visible at 24x42 anyway.
3. The headphones (when looked at in 256x256) have lots of details in them. Which is *all* wasted when the same icon is scaled down to 24x24.
4. Absence of multiple icon sizes. *All* the icon sets I know have separate pngs for 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, and 48x48, which are derived from *separate* SVGs. This is because detail is lost non-proportionately when an icon is scaled down.
5. There is no way to identify the brand "Songbird" by looking at the icon. It's a pair of headphones, the most generic thing you could possibly imagine -- and impossible to trademark.
I realize that the previous icon of an egg/bird was completely non-communicative of the purpose of the application, but that problem is not solved by throwing the baby out with the water.
Suggestion: headphones (that are a bit more visible) around the egg, and eventually around 'the bird' when 1.0 is released.
I’m disappointed
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Inappropriate?News : this may be the icon for final 1.0
Personally I don't like it.. it doesn't reflect Songbird artworks (jko's birds).
I want the black bird !
http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com/show...
I’m confused
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Oh! Now i see this is the infamous orange bird everyone is talking about... I actually like it, only perhaps it could be farting and have headphones instead? (i guess it would then resemble jkoshi's familiar and beloved farting bird) As i said on Dustin's topic ( http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t... ), i guess a black icon is really complicated...
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Inappropriate?i cant say im a fan of this new icon either. i agree it would be easier to see on a mac dock. i love style of the bird that we see in the blogs and stickers but it may be to dark to see in a little doc. the songbird web site has alot of blues on it i thought the icon would also be blue. what colour is a real songbird?
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I guess the most common songbirds are, actually, yellow/orange-ish. I googled it and i found this (amongst other images of yellowish sb's): http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAbout...
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Inappropriate?Hey all, I'm Rob Lord of Songbird.
I do appreciate the feedback. FYI, the new app icon design above comes from the great design shop of MetaLab Design. Expect to see more great work from them from Songbird!
First, our 2D B&W incomparable farting mascot bird, designed by the incredibly talented Jonathan Koshi, will continue to be Songbird's mascot on the Web site, wiki, bugzilla, etc. forever. We love the mascot bird as much as you do.
That said, our mascot bird isn't effective as an application icon. App icons (over-simplifying OS HIGs) are to be a blend of photo-realistic, vector-comic and colorful. Our mascot isn't any of those things and, moreover, we don't want our mascot to change!
FYI, here were some criteria for a new app icon:
Pragmatic Criteria
- Works on light/dark backgrounds
- Looks good at 16x16 to 512x512
- Directionally consistent w/ current Vista, OS X and Ubuntu icon best practices of warm palette and a blend of photo realism and vector
iconic visual design
Esthetic Criteria
- Character personifies the apps qualities e.g.:
--- Engaging, approachable -> cute, warm
--- Badass, innovative -> tussled head feathers, wing and chest feather texture (this one is a bit lacking IMHO, but subtlety is a
virtue)
--- Music-centric -> bird is singing a note
- Embraces our character-as-metaphor-of-app; appeals to inveterate hipsters, innovation champions and maybe even mainstream users
So, my sincerely apologies if this disrupts anyone's expectations. I ask you to give the new birdie a little time to grow on your heart. ;)
Thanks, Rob
I’m thankful.
The company and 3 other people say
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?An orange bird? After all the momentum you've built up with with the black one? You sold T-shirts with it.
Plus you're going to use different birds for the app and website? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Even the silhouette from the logo would be better: http://getsongbird.com/images/songbir...
I’m not happy, but I could be wrong.
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Inappropriate?Ok, I can see now why you would create a new Songbird icon.
"App icons (over-simplifying OS HIGs) are to be a blend of photo-realistic, vector-comic and colorful."
But who says you have to follow along the beaten path?
If the majority (I'm assuming) of Songbird's user base wants the mascot bird as the icon, why tick them off and give them something completely opposite...
[icons should be photo-realistic, etc] Our mascot isn't any of those things... [so] ...here were some criteria for a new app icon: ...
I think the mascot bird has great potential for being the official icon. Im sure others will agree. He doesn't have to be 2D. A 3D version could be created. But I think the most important thing is his color. If I could only change one thing about the new icon, it would be to change his color to black.
I’m glad we're discussing this.
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Inappropriate?I really like the look and style of this icon. What I don't like is that it is ORANGE. A lot of people already have problems distinguishing that Songbird isn't made by Mozilla, and with Firefox using Orange in their Icon, this isn't going to help drive the difference. -
Inappropriate?Here's a more complete summary of why I think the community and myself are uneasy with the new icon.
I think the reason that people are against this new bird is that it was such a shock when we all saw it for the first time. We were all expecting the mascot bird to become the new icon of Songbird, but you whipped up this new, completely different one that doesn't remind us at all of our Songbird.
Why were we expecting the mascot bird to become the official icon?
Let's look at the facts:
Throughout the various beta versions of Songbird, the icon has been (at least from the versions I've seen) a bird slowly hatching from an egg. The most recent edition to this theme is a cracked egg with two black wings poking out.
Now, knowing this, wouldn't it seem logical, if not certain that the final version of Songbird would be the fully hatched bird? Apparently not. It's almost like you created a new bird to fit the criteria of what an icon "should" look like, instead of keeping the old bird in order to live up to the expectations of your current user base.
And finally, doesn't the mascot bird just deserve to be the icon? I mean, come on. He's amazing. We love him as much as you do!
What I'd like to suggest is a middle ground.
An icon that stays true to what we know as the only true SB bird, but also falls under the criteria that you (Rob) posted above.
Below is the same criteria, with my thoughts added.
Pragmatic Criteria
- Works on light/dark backgrounds (this can be done with a black bird!!!)
- Looks good at 16x16 to 512x512
- Directionally consistent w/ current Vista, OS X and Ubuntu icon best practices of warm palette and a blend of photo realism and vector
iconic visual design
Esthetic Criteria
- Character personifies the apps qualities e.g.:
---Engaging, approachable -> cute, warm(No. No No No No. I do NOT want my SB to be cute and or warm. Firefox isn't cute. Thuderbird isn't cute. Most fan made icons for either of the two make them even less cute.)
--- Badass (Gooood), innovative -> tussled head feathers, wing and chest feather texture (this one is a bit lacking IMHO, but subtlety is a
virtue)
--- Music-centric -> bird is singing a note (Meh. Using a note in a music player icon is too much of a cliche. I have never seen a media player with headphones in them before (besides the SB RCs) so put some phones on that bird!)
- Embraces our character-as-metaphor-of-app; appeals to inveterate hipsters, innovation champions and maybe even mainstream users
So basically, what I'm looking for in a Songbird icon is this; a black bird (not necessarily the mascot, but something we can relate to) with his wings on his headphones (like the stickers in the image I posted in my topic), facing the user (not to the side like the orange bird). 3D (...ish, as much as the orange bird), and finally, light/dark background friendly (which can be done without putting a blatant white circle around the bird).
I would really appreciate it if you could post a high res picture of the Songbird sticker I mentioned. I'd really like to fool around with it a little and see what I can come up with. As for now, I'll try and edit the orange bird into something that I think is a bit more acceptable.
Thank you so so much for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate it.
I’m hoping Rob will give us some more feedback
2 people say
this answers the question
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This answers the question
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Heh. Do I win an award for longest post or something? =D
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btw, i've been having some fun here with the white circle idea, and the result was quite pathetic, so i take back my previous suggestion. no white circles, lol, it could be a decent web button though. but hey i colored the headphones, and that i kind of liked.
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Inappropriate?I whipped this up pretty quick, but I think it looks pretty cool.
Just to prove that a black icon can be black background friendly.
EDIT: the bird itself is a bit too dark now that I look at it again, but I think it's a step in the right direction.3 Comments Add a comment
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what if you make the eye white with black flare, and give the beak some color. (and of course heaphones,but later)
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That's a good solution. The eye is pretty hard to see if you scale the picture down.
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I also did some photo editing with the new and old bird, trying out different variations of dark with white outlines/bursts. Half way through, I realized why they went with the orange bird.
Plus, once they incorporate the "new" colors into the Songbird app icons and their website, I think everybody will like it... -
Inappropriate?It's becoming clearer and clearer now.
I must say that although I was so opposed to a different icon before, it now seems like it's the best way to go. Just be sure to change the color of the bird to something other than orange. Preferably a dark blue. Let me re-experiment...
This kind of a color scheme:
The beak would have to be a different color.6 Comments Add a comment
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hmmm... it reminisces the Azureus blue frog icon, so i guess it wouldn't be as original... i'm staring to get into the orange icon. well, but anyway, i think we all agree at least in one point here: the bird seriously needs a headphone (not orange, of course). and it could, perhaps,...be farting?!
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Green then. I don't care. just not orange.
Also, nix the musical note and give him some headphones. -
Sure its different from what your used to, (seeing dark colors throughout the app and website) butt why are HONESTLY so against orange?
I think once it spreads throughout the app and website, you'll get use to it and like it... -
This color is actually quite nice Mike.
@plasticmadness re blue: I don't think of Azureus as much as I think of Twitterrific...but this bird is a better design IMHO. -
I love this icon! Thanks. Much better than the program's default icon.
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Orange is an eyesore. Esecually when you set file to open I songbird by default. I honestly changed itback to WMP because my eyes hurt so much.
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Inappropriate?Open source and community input...Simply the way forward. So impressed to see what Dustin (and rcw003 below) are doing. He is not just talking, but showing the other options. Way to go man. I must admit that Black won't do.. and maybe we need some orange on the songbird pages to make us feel more normal accepting the orange bird color.
Now we know that we will have some folks offering alternative Songbird Icons as addons... right?2 Comments Add a comment
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heh. thanks.
I agree about the the color. -
"Now we know that we will have some folks offering alternative Songbird Icons as addons... right?"
Yea, but it's not the same. -
Inappropriate?I figured I'd play the game too :)
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Cool. What program are you using?
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Inappropriate?The Gimp. Took the original, Duplicated to another layer, On bottom layer I went to Tools, Color Tools, Colorize, then on the top layer, make new layer mask and just paint the orange beak back in.
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Inappropriate?ah. I'm using Gimp too, but I never would have thought of that.
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oh the beak layer is too smudgy on the inner part (i thought it was too crisp... anyways it's a sketch) :-P hehe
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heh. maybe not green then.
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woooooooo!!!
not perfect, but it's a good start. -
I like. Take this further and we're set. I would axe the note though, makes the icon look a tad too small for me compared to others (say the Firefox icon).
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nix the note.
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This comment was removed on 11/20/08.
see the change log -
Nix the note [3]
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This comment was removed on 11/20/08.
see the change log -
I just took the icon from RC2 and flipped it around to put it on the bird... So its kinda backwards, but o well.. I'm no artist.
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This comment was removed on 11/21/08.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?I like the last one with a headset, but i don't think that orange look so nice, and u ppl are missing a detail... he's not farting!
I’m silly
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Inappropriate?I think this bird looks nice and it's better than the headphones, but like i already said orange isn't so nice, i prefer black
And i not skipping the topic =)
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Good work guys. The feedback is much appreciated. The bird + headphone design is pretty sweet -- with or without note as it suggests the bird is singing along! \m/ \m/
A few things to remember:
1. Remember that design is not a job for a committee. It's an individual creative process that evolves with feedback, but creativity shuts down under committee rule. Ultimately, Pioneers of the Inevitable, the organization w/ more than 20 people working full-time on Songbird, has to make decisions with respect to a release. Everything you post is and will continue to be read, considered and often directly responded too -- as I'm doing here. :)
2. Songbird release dates are scheduled, meaning that there's not time between now and our 1.0 release to Windows, OS X and Linux assets from a new app icon design at this point. We shall revisit app icon in our next and each subsequent release.
3. Songbird is highly customizable with add-ons so by all means free to build an add-on for the app icon of your choice. Or use the tools per OS to change the icon. App icons as add-ons is fairly common ex. see Adium's app icon add-ons. And if there's a myriad of app icon add-ons, I'll see to it that there's an app icon add-on section in Songbird add-on site.
So, thanks again for the major helpful feedback. Please remember that we're doing the best we know how to serve you, others like you and probably some others unlike you to the best of our ability. We thrive on your passion, constructive and well-considered feedback.
Chirp!
Rob
The company says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?I think its the moment that we should give the new icon a try and not argue anymore... As said the Songbird team is doing everything they can... And we... the community should now accept the decision as is and for showing respect to what they did in relation to customer support until now.
Thank you devs!
2 people say
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Inappropriate?Cool. Thanks for keeping us informed. You have no idea how good it feels to know that the powers that be are listening.
I’m content
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Inappropriate?Yes! Thanks Rob! You and your Songbird team have worked your butts off! You deserve to have the final say! The new icon is gorgeous, and if you are a person that doesnt think so.. it will grow on you...
We all love Songbird!
I’m thankful
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Nicely done Mike.
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Inappropriate?Exactly.
Regardless of whether this icon is your piece of cake or not, other icons will come. -
Inappropriate?Well then, the only logical choice is to have every major release with a different colour bird.
"You're still running Blue Jay? Man, upgrade to Cardinal."
"I thought that was Ruby-throated Warbler."
"That was the beta."
When you think about it, it's the only thing that makes any sense!
I’m kidding. I think.....
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lolololol!
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That's an awesome idea!
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Inappropriate?I'm glad to see that the only thing to argue over is the icon...1 Comment Add a comment
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me too! =P
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Inappropriate?I won't say I hate the orange bird outright, but I have to say that the system tray icon looks a hell of a lot more like a goldfish eating a worm than a bird singing.
I’m befuddled
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Inappropriate?THAT's what it looked like to me... a goldfish. I do love the headphones on him though. Not sure about what color, but headphones are a must.
Oh, and don't worry; we'll [the community will] find ways to use our own sweet icons if we really want to. I just think the default icon when a *new* user sees it should be memorable.
I’m excited for 1.0
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Inappropriate?Here's my idea.
Or, against a black background.
Just an idea (and rough mock-up).
I’m happy
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Those staring eyes are a little frightening
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Inappropriate?I think the design teams working too hard on this...I loved the old-skool birds used in the website...it's seems strange to me to see a totally different graphic when I download the software to what I see on the website, the two just don't communicate, it's like there two different products...it's like apple using a picture of an apple on their websites and then printing a banana on there laptops...keep the same branding across the platform and for me the original bird is where it's at!
It's simple and artistic...the new bird just looks less thoughtful, like less imagination went into it...and no headphones please its just cheese lol...who actually agrees with me here!? :S lol
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Inappropriate?i quite like the new one but it doesnt look enough like the website one..
anyway if you don't like it then its very easy to change it yourself on OS X. just go to 'get info' on the app, select the icon in the top left and then paste (apple+V) the one you want...
i like the new one in blue
I’m thankful
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Inappropriate?This is my suggestion... It may lack technical beauty, but the idea is obvious. The multiple border colors is to ensure it would be visibly bordered on just about any backdrop.
I am sure that people with the know-how could make the bird in the middle look more 3d or whatever:
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Inappropriate?Just another, but I am no good at this stuff.. so really just posting ideas.
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Inappropriate?A comment from Rob Lord on another thread (to clear up confusion/uncertainty of the new icon and its consistency with the rest of Songbird) :
"It's the our intention to bring color, warmth and attractiveness to Songbird's feather and Web sites. Our next priority is the icon set within the Gonzo feather."
I’m excited
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Inappropriate?I loved the new orange bird icon :D
Just don't like it in the window menu and quick start bar in Windows, it gets a lot squared, I like it round and complete.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?For the record, I'm not a big fan of the weird bird face eating a worm icon on my quick launch bar or the yellow bird on my desktop.
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Inappropriate?Apologies for the absolutely horrendous quality of this attached drawing, but I wanted to illustrate a possibility for coloring that I couldn't easily achieve through hue/saturation fiddling.
We don't need to make the songbird all black for it to "read" as black. Instead, we could make it a light bluish purple that fades quickly to black. This way, we can get both intense color and the "black" of the original logo.
For what it's worth, I'd prefer that the logo didn't go back to the little mascot. He's cute, but he doesn't seem icon-worthy for me. I believe icons should be clean, elegant, and somewhat indicative of the application's function. Headphones on the new bird allow us to hit all of these.
My two cents. -
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Inappropriate?The new icon looks much more like a goldfish burping a music note than a songbird. I appreciate the desire to have clean vector icons, but a compromise could certainly be made between the soulless goldfish thing and the affable bird mascot that the Songbird community has come to love. Plus, that goldfish will look extra weird on my dock next to the Adium bird icon. What happened to the simple, clean bird that you used as a logo in the beginning?
I’m disappointed
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Inappropriate?I must say that I much preferred the sleek black and white Songbird icon than the current orange one.
I also found that the black and white icon stood out more on my desktop. How many icons for apps are simply black and white, the orange icon market is 'owned' by Firefox, which itself is a web browser.
Songbird should stick to consistent branding, the current icon is completely detached from the website, and keep away from the colour territory of other similar apps.
I’m sad
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Excellent point. I agree entirely.
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A comment from Rob Lord on another thread (to clear up confusion/uncertainty of the new icon and its consistency with the rest of Songbird) :
"It's the our intention to bring color, warmth and attractiveness to Songbird's feather and Web sites. Our next priority is the icon set within the Gonzo feather." -
Inappropriate?Nobody seems to have mentioned that the new icon also looks way too small on a Mac OSX dock. I agree with all the calls for consistency and would much prefer the original black songbird. Great program though and congrats on the 1.0 release. -
Inappropriate?
Check out this one: http://subnexo.deviantart.com/art/Son...
I like that one!
Mr. Lord -- I have been watching Songbird a long time, and you guys have done a great job!! I don't really like the new icon, but I understand why you did it.
Would you consider having a contest for a new icon? You mentioned an Adium-esque icon change coming up-- a contest might be a really good way to jumpstart the creation of lots of different icons for Songbird.
I’m excited for new icons
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this answers the question
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Awesome idea for a project that respects its community so much. I certainly second this idea.
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Oops, you already posted that picture!
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Inappropriate?Question: if i want to "use the tools per OS to change the icon", how would I go about doing so (in XP)? I know how to change the shortcut icon, but I'm more concerned about the tiny goldfish and worm I see in the system tray and taskbar.
I’m curious
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Inappropriate?I don't like the new Icon
Try these:
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this answers the question
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Ooh, I really like the second one!
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This reply was removed on 07/30/09.
see the change log -
You're awesome.
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Inappropriate?I really enjoyed the old songbird icon and I feel like the new one breaks with the them settings on the player and the general way the icon has been progressing until now. I miss the song change notifications with different birds popping up.
I’m confused
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Inappropriate?Thought I would post this just to show how fuzzy the Songbird ICOn is. This is on Windows VISTA.
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Inappropriate?@deomega it's because you are using a dock with a low-resolution picture
try this one : http://timeline.songbirdnest.com/clie...
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?I've followed Songbird since it first came out. The two things that really stand out in my mind are the music blog download/browse capability and the BIRD! And by the "bird" I mean the sassy, black, jigglypuff-looking bird. The "goldfish" (I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this) doesn't even compare.The goldfish seems completely generic and I was like "Huh?" when I read here about the reasoning behind the change. All you have to do is think "Coke" and you know that a simple, flat brand/logo can be iconic and work just fine, and I personally think it would look great down in the taskbar.
Songbird to me was the anti-Apple. Apple has their white apple logo and their generally white design language, while, Songbird with its black bird was the antithesis to that.
It may not be a community decision, but sometimes you gotta admit when something's just better, and give the people what they want.
And I see a lot of people missing the REAL Songbird.
1 person says
this answers the question
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I couldn't have said it any better myself!
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Inappropriate?I use a large monitor and usually have 20+ things in the tray at a time. The colors are similar to the vista folder icons and sometimes get lost in the crowd. An icon that has more contrast and more distinct shape and color would help.
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
The Songbird tray icon is not distinct enough.
I’m confused
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