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Suggestions for improving the Now Playing List
As we can see with all the topics here, there are still a lot of issues to improve, so that songbird can be THE PLAYER (I strongly believe it's just a matter of time). One of them is the Now Playing List. I know there's an add-on, but I think it doesn't function as it should, not to mention it shouldn't be an add-on but be in the core.
Well, but here's a list of suggestions for the Now Playing List:
- The way I see it, every mp3 I start to play should immediately be added to the Now Playing List.
- I should also be able to right click a song and choose "Play Now" (starting immediately, no matter if there's another track being played), "Play Next" (scheduled to play after the current song) or "Play Last" (adds the song to the end of the current Now Playing List).
- These options should also be available directly from within the file directory: "Play Now on Songbird", "Play Next on Songbird" and "Play Last on Songbird".
- The Now Playing List should also keep track of the tracks I've already heard, not only the one I'm listening to or the ones who follow it. Currently, it eliminates the songs I've heard as it gets along.
- To finish this list, I think the tracks I chose for the Now Playing List in one songbird session should be there on the following. I mean that if I have to close songbird I would like to keep listening to my selection of tracks the next time I open it
These suggestions and others have been made in several topics by more users. In order to keep track of them I've made a selection:
"We should also be able to right click on a mp3 on our desktop and add to songbird's now playing list whether it is there default player or not and whether it is running or not. And when an mp3 is being played it is automatically added to the Now playing list. the now playing list should also automatically save, without having to create a new custom playlist."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2i
"The second one is implementing a "Now Playing" list, without the use of an add-on... Adding items to a playlist and then playing that is not really the same... When you double-click a file in the library, it should be added to "Now Playing", and start to play. =)"
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2k
"The NOW PLAYING LIST MUST BE ROLLED INTO THE CORE. now i would suggest the now playing list to be an entirely different section where songbird would have 2 tabs, "now playing" and "library" like realplayer, where under this tab there would also be VISUALIZATIONS (a very important aspect) the now playing list should also be saved without having to create a new playlist and whenever we open a file from our default music directory it shouldn't be added to the library, i mean its very annoying. i have to end up deleting a bunch of broken video shortcuts when im done watching them. and of course "Add to songbirds now playing list" is a must have feature upon right click on a file."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2u
"I also think that a Now Playing screen is a basic component of a media player. (I know there is an add-on for this, but that seems to be something that is essential without having to use plug-in)"
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2e
"the ́"now" playing add on must be an integrated feature coming with the core install."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2j
Thanks for paying attention!
Well, but here's a list of suggestions for the Now Playing List:
- The way I see it, every mp3 I start to play should immediately be added to the Now Playing List.
- I should also be able to right click a song and choose "Play Now" (starting immediately, no matter if there's another track being played), "Play Next" (scheduled to play after the current song) or "Play Last" (adds the song to the end of the current Now Playing List).
- These options should also be available directly from within the file directory: "Play Now on Songbird", "Play Next on Songbird" and "Play Last on Songbird".
- The Now Playing List should also keep track of the tracks I've already heard, not only the one I'm listening to or the ones who follow it. Currently, it eliminates the songs I've heard as it gets along.
- To finish this list, I think the tracks I chose for the Now Playing List in one songbird session should be there on the following. I mean that if I have to close songbird I would like to keep listening to my selection of tracks the next time I open it
These suggestions and others have been made in several topics by more users. In order to keep track of them I've made a selection:
"We should also be able to right click on a mp3 on our desktop and add to songbird's now playing list whether it is there default player or not and whether it is running or not. And when an mp3 is being played it is automatically added to the Now playing list. the now playing list should also automatically save, without having to create a new custom playlist."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2i
"The second one is implementing a "Now Playing" list, without the use of an add-on... Adding items to a playlist and then playing that is not really the same... When you double-click a file in the library, it should be added to "Now Playing", and start to play. =)"
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2k
"The NOW PLAYING LIST MUST BE ROLLED INTO THE CORE. now i would suggest the now playing list to be an entirely different section where songbird would have 2 tabs, "now playing" and "library" like realplayer, where under this tab there would also be VISUALIZATIONS (a very important aspect) the now playing list should also be saved without having to create a new playlist and whenever we open a file from our default music directory it shouldn't be added to the library, i mean its very annoying. i have to end up deleting a bunch of broken video shortcuts when im done watching them. and of course "Add to songbirds now playing list" is a must have feature upon right click on a file."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2u
"I also think that a Now Playing screen is a basic component of a media player. (I know there is an add-on for this, but that seems to be something that is essential without having to use plug-in)"
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2e
"the ́"now" playing add on must be an integrated feature coming with the core install."
Source: http://gsfn.us/t/k2j
Thanks for paying attention!
I’m confident
179
people like this idea
I like this idea!
Tell me when this idea gets some attention.
The more people who like this idea, the more it gets noticed.
The more people who like this idea, the more it gets noticed.
The company has this under consideration.
The best point from the company
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So what Donalb is saying is, I am due for a promotion? :-P
Ok, look, I get that you, nicbot and probably even the silent majority here are all frustrated, and even if you don't want me to say I hear you, I actually really do. And that's my job, to hear you and pass your feedback on to the developers.
That being said, Donalb actually made my point for me in spades. We have a handful of developers, (of which I am not, btw) a thousand things on fire, a million things to do, and not enough time to do it all.
Today this sounds like the most important thing on the list, but a month ago it was CD rip/burn and EQ both of which we are currently working on for our next release.
We do listen, we do NOT just say uh huh, yeah right, whatever, but I do not have anything else to report right now. When I do, I assure you I won't hold back.
I’m all yeah, uh huh, I hear ya...
4 people think
this is one of the best points
The best points from everyone
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Firstly,
I love the way this thread has taken a life of it's own!
Secondly,
I've released a new version, which addresses most people's concerns. The three big improvements are filtering/searching is independent of the list, shuffling is integrated (no more disabled shuffled buttons, and extra randomise buttons) and column sorting works.
Unfortunately I couldn't get the feature where double clicking on a track queues it up, instead of replacing the now playing list. I was soo close, but there's a weird bug in Songbird itself preventing me from doing the final step. I shouldn't be telling you this but go to about:nowplayinglist for a taste of what I was gonna do. That page won't do anything though, it's just there to look pretty for the moment.
Cheers!
6 people think
this is one of the best points
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Why not let the user decide what happens on double click?
- Songbird should incorporate several playlist options (such as "play", "enqueue next", "enqueue last" etc) in a "mouse control" menu and give the user the possibility to choose from several actions (such as click on a song/album/link, double click, click+key combination) and thus make the controls completely customizable.
Concerning the problem of losing your current playlist by accidentally double-clicking etc:
- Songbird should provide an option to undo changes to your playlist, e.g. in the playlist's context menu (MediaMonkey has this) or as playlist control buttons.
- Furthermore, drag+drop for as many parts of the application as possible should be available, as it's the most intuitive way of using a program.
I’m hopeful
5 people think
this is one of the best points
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I didn't see this mentioned yet, but maybe a solution to the problem of some people wanting a song to play on double click and some wanting it to enqueue could be that the user has to hold down a key such as alt while double clicking for the track to enqueue, otherwise it will just play. In fact, maybe it could just be alt and single click so people don't have to worry about resetting the list they were making if they accidentally just double click because they aren't pressing alt hard enough. I used to use Winamp back in the day and I think it could do something similar.
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would add here that all lists in Songbird lack the ability to drag'n'drop.
To better illustrate my point, the feature I speak of is standard in Media Monkey. The user may re-arrange the tracks in their library view or playlist via dragging. Furthermore, the user may drag a track from their library view onto their playlist.
Having "Play Next" and "Play Last" available from a right click menu can be streamlined by the ability to drag and drop within a list and/or to another list (i.e. from Library view to Now Playing List). My main concern is to be able to re-arrange a playlist to my preferance.
My 2 cents.
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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after all the hassle today I also like to add my five cents.......
if you look at the "idea kitchen"
http://wiki.songbirdnest.com/User:Ste...
it is obvious that the priorities of the users of the getsatifaction panel are very
mature and sensible for a media-mp3 player software (still they like the farting).
first priority: "sound" (this is the!!!!! basic function")
second priority: library sorting (this is a i-tunes feature....that comes along with downloading and buying music on the net and not paying attention to your file managing. This is very much the "APPLE" way of intuitive and user friendly)
third priority: the way of keeping library and actual playlist separate.
this can be called the "winamp" way.
the next thing people agree upon is to make songbird a bigger success.
and on place number five: is the burning /ripping option that is scheduled for ISAN.
I think that all the people that are collected on this thread (I feel its 500 posts) for one or the other reason have some sentiments for the bird.
And all of them really wish that it will become as successful as firebird.
however judging from the different background people come from (Itunes /Winamp- style) their demands are different (something very understandable).
After following this board for quite some time I have the feeling that the software and developers are more attracted to the apple way of things.....(the ipod add-on always is a high priority).
However the Company has to keep in mind that Apple is trying to sell the whole package and if SOngbird concentrates on winning and keeping Macusers primarily they must be aware that a proprietary company can always lock them out!
This is already apparent when you look at the problems with the "IPOD"touch.
I understand that Laura only means it well when she appreciates the great activity within this thread. And I like it that she expresses it because of her own fascination with songbird and the community.
because from what I see her main job is to really help people that use this forum for the first time trying to get answers how to work the program and to survey for new ideas and channel them to bugzilla.
You do a great JOB!
But I also understand NICBOT and all the others who feel frustrated for they miss some more official answer or statement.
I that if you analyze the survey you did some time ago you can find out what your
your user and potential for growth are.
My feeling is that the songbird could very much profit from the suggeastion to appeal to both haters AND lovers of i-tunes.
http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...
Finally, I think it is fair and good that the developers don`t spend their time on this forum but instead of this really work on the bird.
You did a great job on: stability, file sorting, GSTREAMER, and memory consumption.
You rule! PRAISE!!!!!!!
But concerning the now Playing issue:
pleas either mark it:
the company is workin on this
or
the company is considering this
or (as with the icons)
the company has no plans to do this.
Thanks for reading.
I’m missing it, but loving the bird
4 people think
this is one of the best points
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Of course the devs care, after all they're designing a product and if nobody likes it then nobody will use it and they will go out of business. It's in thier best interest to build the best player possible. There are lots of things which I'd ike to see included ranging from the particularly simple (eg fade out instead of stop) to the somewhat improbable (eg make me a grilled cheese sandwhich with the album art of the current track lightly taosted on to the front) but at the end of the day, we can't expect it all to happen at once. Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. It's plain that plenty of notice is taken of the discussions on GetSat, by add-on authors and coders alike. If, like me, you don't fall in to that category, maybe this should serve as motivation to learn how we can do something of use to contribute - test a nightly or help out with simple problems on getsat, spread the word etc before we complain too loudly.
I’m determined to contribute something despite not knowing my C from my VB
4 people think
this is one of the best points
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Hi, I'd just like to add something. I've been using Winamp for a number of years now, but it's lack of significant development lately has encouraged me to try other music players. Songbird is at the top of my list. However, I plan on uninstalling Songbird within a few minutes and waiting for it to mature due mainly to this problem (that, and the poor interface). The "Now Playing" add-on is nice, and is definitely a step in the right direction, however, it is far from ideal.
When I double-click on a song, it should be added to my "Now Playing" list, and ONLY that song should be added. I simply cannot stand that when I tell Songbird to play it song, it automatically queues my entire library. I'm sorry, but I find this behavior completely unusable.
This is one thing that Winamp does PERFECTLY. Please check out Winamp and look into how playlists and the media library are implemented. Just because iTunes doesn't disassociate the two concepts doesn't make it right.
Also, as stated, the main program should have this implemented by default. In fact, the program as a whole should be modeled around this system, rather than the afterthought add-on that is available.
Songbird is a great piece of software. It just needs a lot of work before I can find it to be a feasible alternative.
4 people think
this is one of the best points
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This is most certainly a core feature of a media player.
The lack of this as part of a default songbird install is one of the applications greatest weaknesses. When non technical people don't immediately realize where to find it, they are unlikely to look for an extension. They are more likely to simply assume it doesn't exist and use another media player.
This should not be marked as "implemented".
I’m irritated that this thread is marked as implemented.
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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The Now Playing add on is nice, but needs to be more robust. Songbird as a company needs to embrace it and fix it, and not just refer to it, otherwise this core basic feature of a media player (queue song, play next) reflects on Songbird application as a whole, as half-baked.
I’m hopeful.
8 people think
this is one of the best points
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@moshy
Thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to see your plugin updated and working with 1.0. Have you ever talked with the developers regarding integrating your addon into the core? As you can it is very often requested here.
The idea to modify the current or create a new playlist is a very good one. Maybe a dropdown switcher for the playlists as I already suggested would be nice.
One comment for your screenshot: The options "Remove it from the queue" and "Scroll the list to the next track" should be able to work at the same time. Imagine you made a list which you want to play randomly. After playing a song you want to remove it and you also want the list to scroll to the next track. So please make checkboxes for these options instead of radio buttons.
One more thing. Let me insert here Winamp screenshot with a short description of it's behavior:
I think this is what most people (including me) are looking for.
7 people think
this is one of the best points
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How has this earned "The company implemented this idea."?? By an addon that has not been updated to work with the current version as of yet? I don't see any built in implementation of this 'idea'. Please advise or mark this thread 'outdated' if it is.
Although I love the addon capability of Songbird and will continue to, I am slowly starting to feel that Songbird is going to become a victim of it's own design.
Main issue; If an integral feature of a media player (ie- Now Playing window) is only available by an addon, then the end user is bound to that authors ability to update his addon promptly with every major release. This gets compounded with each addon the user chooses to incorporate in their setup.
I realize that Songbird is still young, but I feel this needs some review.
This specific feature should NOT be an addon and should be included in the core build.
Just my thoughts.
I’m ...yeah.
5 people think
this is one of the best points
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Hello Moshy!
Thanks for paying attention to the suggestions made. I think the new version is a step forward, although there's still a lot to get better, as the add-on is yet a little buggy.
Anyway, I've been testing it, but only now did I have the time to post here.
I found a significant number of bugs. Which leads me to think that somehow one should make a reflection on why is this add-on needed and what it should exactly do.
In my opinion it should simply keep track of what was played, what's playing and what will be played, and of course give the user the chance to add new songs and change the order they're supposed to play.
Let me try to describe the behaviour I'm thinking:
- Situation 1 - I open SB. Double click a song in the library or in a playlist. It starts playing. In this situation there should be a Now Playing option that basically would show the double clicked song and the ones who follow it in the library or playlist.
- Situation 2 - I double click another song in the library or playlist. The same thing happens, clearing the previous selection. However if I do this from within the Now Playing list I'm simply skipping the song that was being played and playing a new one.
- Situation 3 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Now". By doing this I'm adding this song to the previously chosen selection, interrupting the song that was playing and starting this new one.
- Situation 4 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Next". Once again I'm adding this new song to the selection, although this time it doesn't interrupt playback. It will only start once the current song ends.
- Situation 5 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Last". This way I'm adding the chosen song to the end of the previous selection.
- Situation 6 - I'm checking the Now Playing list. I decide to change the playback order. I have the possibility to drag songs up or down and then drop them in their new position. This should be a possibility in every SB playlist, but not in the library.
- Situation 7 - I'm checking the Now Playing list. Just like it presently happens, I can reorder the tracks in the list by album, track title... However when I do this, I'm not reordering the entire library or playlists.
- Situation 8 - I close songbird, putting a stop to my selection. I open it again. The selection I had made is still there, so I can keep listening to it.
This is in a very simplistic way, how I think this add-on should behave. I'm probably forgetting something. If that's the case, I'm sorry.
Anyway, having this into consideration, here are some (re)suggestions:
- It should be possible to queue songs from playlists. Right now one can only do it from within the library.
- As I've said in my original post, I think the Play Queue should keep track of the tracks I've already heard, not only the one I'm listening to or the ones who follow it. Right now it still eliminates the songs as they get to be played.
- I think there should be an icon to represent Play Queue in the tree. It would look a whole lot better as it would integrate better with the SB design.
- Once again, as I said in my original post, I think that when I close songbird, putting a stop to my selection, I expect it to remember that selection the next time I open it. This still doesn't happen.
- The usual behaviour when double clicking a song is to eliminate the previously chosen selection to start a new one. This means, as someone said, that in order to prevent this behaviour, the user should be able to decide what a double click does or, at least, have the chance to undo the double click who ruined the selection made.
- If you think double clicking should behave as I've said before, then there should be a "Queue Now" option, that basically would interrupt playback, starting to play the new song without eliminating the selection made.
This is it. I hope this post, can be of some help to discuss what this add-on and Songbird should do on this matter.
Keep up the work.
I’m hoping these suggestions can be taken into consideration
5 people think
this is one of the best points
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Hi,
I have an idea, which might be close to this one, so I'll post it here.
The latest 0.7 version is very nice but it has some usability issues for me. Especially regarding playlists. Usually I have no idea from which playlist are songs currently playing. As I already posted in bugzilla, Songbird should scroll down to the currently played song and highlight it. But I would go a little further. First let's see my sketch:
As you can see, there's not much difference compared to how Songbird looks now. One small difference is to move the Albumart to the top left corner. Another thing is a playlist panel on the right side. On top there should be a dropdown box with playlists like default, browser results and any other user defined. If a song in the table below browser panels is doubleclicked, it will be added to the right playlist. Also if I doubleclick an album or artist in a browser panel, it should be added to playlist. The playlist should look like the one in Amarok 2.
Then since there are many UMPCs and MIDs computers on their way, I think we would need a different UI for these devices. There 2 big reasons: small display and touch navigation. So I would split the functionality into 3 tabs. My idea is this:
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Please go the the addon.songbirdnest.com page for the addon and post your suggestions as a comment there.
As far as rolling it into the core, I can't make a decision on that. However, it is completely conceivable that it could be done. We have done that in the past if an addon provides a feature that we want in the core. Perhaps the most noticeable example would be the iTunes library importer. It once lived as an addon but now exists in the core.
Thanks for the feedback.
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Thanks for the help!
It's really nice to see someone reads and replies the topics.
I've posted my suggestions as you told me.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Hi,
I have an idea, which might be close to this one, so I'll post it here.
The latest 0.7 version is very nice but it has some usability issues for me. Especially regarding playlists. Usually I have no idea from which playlist are songs currently playing. As I already posted in bugzilla, Songbird should scroll down to the currently played song and highlight it. But I would go a little further. First let's see my sketch:
As you can see, there's not much difference compared to how Songbird looks now. One small difference is to move the Albumart to the top left corner. Another thing is a playlist panel on the right side. On top there should be a dropdown box with playlists like default, browser results and any other user defined. If a song in the table below browser panels is doubleclicked, it will be added to the right playlist. Also if I doubleclick an album or artist in a browser panel, it should be added to playlist. The playlist should look like the one in Amarok 2.
Then since there are many UMPCs and MIDs computers on their way, I think we would need a different UI for these devices. There 2 big reasons: small display and touch navigation. So I would split the functionality into 3 tabs. My idea is this:
3 people think
this is one of the best points
1 Comment Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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What you are suggesting can be accomplished through a feather/addon; albeit a rather complex one.
This thread is more about improving functionality of the Now Playing List addon. I think what you want to do is a bit complex and outside of the scope of Now Playing List. However, I am not the addon author, so I can't say for sure.
I would recommend doing what you suggest in a new addon/feather.
Thanks for the suggestion. -
Inappropriate?Well the section regarding support for small and touch screen devices is rather off-topic, you're right.
But the rest what I suggest is very similar to what has been already written:
1) The now playing list (it is what I call simply playlist) should be in the core. It is a basic functionality.
2) To the suggestions above I would also add a drop down menu to select from multiple playlists. it should contain a "default" playlist and a playlist which will be a copy of the current filter result. Also there should be an option on what to do on doubleclick:
- a) send to default playlist
- b) send to current selected playlist
The next options as already mentioned in previous post should be:
- a) Add to top and start playing
- b) Add after current and play next
- c) Add to end
The idea of multiple active playlists comes from foobar2000. Once you get used on it, you can't live without it. AFAIK there is no other player which supports it.
3) For this to work properly, you need to be able to override the double click action on filters' results. Also currently there is no doubleclik action on the filters associated. I do believe this must be changed in the core.
If it is possible I would like to help with this. What knowledge do I need to create addons? I have some experiences with PHP-GTK and PyGTK in which I created some applications. But I'm not a really good programmer though. -
Inappropriate?All great suggestions and apply directly to the Now Playing List addon. I recommend that you post your feedback to the comments feed for the addon on addons.songbirdnest.com
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Inappropriate?Hear you , ashughes - just adding my chirp for integrating the list into the SB core.
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Inappropriate?I've just noticed JeCh is offering himself to help, and no one has answered him. Can someone from the company help here?
As for leaving suggestions in the comments feed for the Now Playing List add-on, we've all been doing that, but unfortunately there hasn't been any answer in the last 3 months. Does this mean the add-on has been disregarded?
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?In addition to finding a way for a double click to add a song to the Play Queue as others have recommended, I'd like to add that a keyboard shortcut for this kind of option would be wonderful. I much prefer to use the keyboard over the mouse when it is possible.
I’m hopeful
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?I am surprised there is not a "now playing" display pane. There seems to be a now playing add-on, but it does not seem to be available for Songbird 1.0.
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?Hello ruipenunes,
I'm finally getting round to you - I hope you get email-notified of comments!
Some things you said I really like and have implemented, some things you said I also like but haven't done yet, and some things just aren't possible.
I've done 'Play Next' and 'Play Last', except I've called them 'Queue Next' 'Queue Last' because the 'now playing' mode is different to the 'queue/custom' mode. For reasons on why I've designed the addon with two modes you can read this article that I wrote to explain this. I know it can be confusing to people coming from other media players. If you don't like this, then I'm sorry but this is the way it has to be for now.
I also wanted to add hotkeys to these commands but for some reason the code didn't work....
For 'Play Now' you can just double-click the track. I know you and lots of others said that double-clicking should add the track to the queue instead of just playing it but this would be a huge departure from the expected behaviour. I'm not sure what the behaviour in Winamp is though, but this idea could theoretically be done, it's just not a priority. I'll most likely implement it as an option later on.
I think that the addon already saves the contents of the playlist across sessions. By 'save' I mean not delete. Are you referring to the 'now playing' mode or the custom/queue mode? Because the 'now playing' mode will by definition start empty as Songbird starts with nothing playing.
A lot of the other suggestions such as changing the interface of Songbird are outside the scope of the extension.
I think it is also important to keep in mind that Songbird is primarily used to gather and organise music libraries. It is not a stand-alone player like Real Player (correct me if I'm wrong). What I mean by this is that you would never see a 'Songbird Player' embedded in a webpage for instance. Does this make sense?
Cheers!
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Hi moshy,
thanks for your update and reply. I'll try to clear up some things:
"A lot of the other suggestions such as changing the interface of Songbird are outside the scope of the extension." - I've started to create the interface I suggested as an addon myself. I posted it here to show how I would like Songbird look like and behave.
"I know you and lots of others said that double-clicking should add the track to the queue instead of just playing it but this would be a huge departure from the expected behaviour. I'm not sure what the behaviour in Winamp is though" - In Winamp the default behavior is to clear playlist and start playing the song you double clicked. Most people I know don't like it and change it to queue the double clicked song as last. So Winamp has an option for this. -
Inappropriate?@JeCh
Re Winamp: The best I've got as of now is right-click > Queue Last for that, which does the same thing. -
Inappropriate?@moshy
Yes, I understood this from your previous post. But please consider to associate this with doubleclick (of course optionally) in a future version. There's nothing worse then deleting a queue you've create with an accidental doubleclick. :-) -
Inappropriate?@JeCh, i think it will be a lot better an undo comand, in the case you ruin your playlist, undo and keep going
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Hello Moshy!
Thanks for paying attention to the suggestions made. I think the new version is a step forward, although there's still a lot to get better, as the add-on is yet a little buggy.
Anyway, I've been testing it, but only now did I have the time to post here.
I found a significant number of bugs. Which leads me to think that somehow one should make a reflection on why is this add-on needed and what it should exactly do.
In my opinion it should simply keep track of what was played, what's playing and what will be played, and of course give the user the chance to add new songs and change the order they're supposed to play.
Let me try to describe the behaviour I'm thinking:
- Situation 1 - I open SB. Double click a song in the library or in a playlist. It starts playing. In this situation there should be a Now Playing option that basically would show the double clicked song and the ones who follow it in the library or playlist.
- Situation 2 - I double click another song in the library or playlist. The same thing happens, clearing the previous selection. However if I do this from within the Now Playing list I'm simply skipping the song that was being played and playing a new one.
- Situation 3 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Now". By doing this I'm adding this song to the previously chosen selection, interrupting the song that was playing and starting this new one.
- Situation 4 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Next". Once again I'm adding this new song to the selection, although this time it doesn't interrupt playback. It will only start once the current song ends.
- Situation 5 - I find a new song in the library or playlist that I want to listen to. I right click it and choose "Queue Last". This way I'm adding the chosen song to the end of the previous selection.
- Situation 6 - I'm checking the Now Playing list. I decide to change the playback order. I have the possibility to drag songs up or down and then drop them in their new position. This should be a possibility in every SB playlist, but not in the library.
- Situation 7 - I'm checking the Now Playing list. Just like it presently happens, I can reorder the tracks in the list by album, track title... However when I do this, I'm not reordering the entire library or playlists.
- Situation 8 - I close songbird, putting a stop to my selection. I open it again. The selection I had made is still there, so I can keep listening to it.
This is in a very simplistic way, how I think this add-on should behave. I'm probably forgetting something. If that's the case, I'm sorry.
Anyway, having this into consideration, here are some (re)suggestions:
- It should be possible to queue songs from playlists. Right now one can only do it from within the library.
- As I've said in my original post, I think the Play Queue should keep track of the tracks I've already heard, not only the one I'm listening to or the ones who follow it. Right now it still eliminates the songs as they get to be played.
- I think there should be an icon to represent Play Queue in the tree. It would look a whole lot better as it would integrate better with the SB design.
- Once again, as I said in my original post, I think that when I close songbird, putting a stop to my selection, I expect it to remember that selection the next time I open it. This still doesn't happen.
- The usual behaviour when double clicking a song is to eliminate the previously chosen selection to start a new one. This means, as someone said, that in order to prevent this behaviour, the user should be able to decide what a double click does or, at least, have the chance to undo the double click who ruined the selection made.
- If you think double clicking should behave as I've said before, then there should be a "Queue Now" option, that basically would interrupt playback, starting to play the new song without eliminating the selection made.
This is it. I hope this post, can be of some help to discuss what this add-on and Songbird should do on this matter.
Keep up the work.
I’m hoping these suggestions can be taken into consideration
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I like these ideas, unfortunately it is impossible to get the songs to appear in the order they are going to play in when shuffle is on. This means that I can't do a lot of what you suggest.
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Hi Moshy!
I already saw (down here) that you're planning to implement some of the things I and other have suggested. That's great. I believe that step by step we'll get there. In the end, if it's still not possible to have what everyone's suggesting, then we'll see... -
I already saw (down here) that you're planning to implement some of the things I and other have suggested. That's great. I believe that step by step we'll get there. In the end, if it's still not possible to have what everyone's suggesting, then we'll see... What about talking with the SB team for some help? Maybe they can find a way.
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Inappropriate?The other post was way too big, so here's another one to list some problems I recently found in the add-on:
1. I can't access "Play Queue" by clicking on it in the tree. It seems the link is off. The only way I found to check on Play Queue was clicking on the song being played on the player. However, there are situations in which even this solution doesn't function. For instance, if I interrupt a selection by double clicking a song. On this situation, the selection remains, but there's no way I can access Play Queue.
2. In more than one situation, I found out that SB was scrobbling the wrong song to Last.fm . SB was telling me the song being played was X, but last.fm said it was Y. From what I could see, this happens when songs are being played in my chosen order, which is different from the one showed in Play Queue.
3. The playback is irregular. Once a song ends it takes a lot of time until the next one stops.
4. If I, for some reason, stop playback, it eliminates the selection made. This is really annoying.
5. When I double click on a song without previously having queued any other, then this song isn't added to Play Queue.
6. The way I see it, the Play Queue should reflect the order selected. If I tell SB to play song A first and song B after, then this is what I should see if I go to Play Queue. This doesn't happen currently, although the songs are indeed played in the chosen order.
I found more problems, however explaining them here would be quiet complicated. If they persist, maybe I can point them in some other occasion.
Thanks!
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Inappropriate?How has this earned "The company implemented this idea."?? By an addon that has not been updated to work with the current version as of yet? I don't see any built in implementation of this 'idea'. Please advise or mark this thread 'outdated' if it is.
Although I love the addon capability of Songbird and will continue to, I am slowly starting to feel that Songbird is going to become a victim of it's own design.
Main issue; If an integral feature of a media player (ie- Now Playing window) is only available by an addon, then the end user is bound to that authors ability to update his addon promptly with every major release. This gets compounded with each addon the user chooses to incorporate in their setup.
I realize that Songbird is still young, but I feel this needs some review.
This specific feature should NOT be an addon and should be included in the core build.
Just my thoughts.
I’m ...yeah.
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Excellent points. I agree that it should be rolled into the core.
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doesnt mean "the company implemented this idea" that the company will be rolling this into the core?
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Inappropriate?i thik an undo function is vital with the now playing(imagine that you have almost done with doing your now playing list and double click a song and then the last song you double clicked is the only one in your list. its frustrating.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Just make it work exactly like the now playing list in WMP11. It would need to be integrated into the core though, since songbird can currently play from library or from the list. These need to be the same thing.
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Yeah WMP11 may not be the best player ever but I think it got the now playing list functionality just right. It's like songbird's, but songs are not deleted from the list. Double clicking an album automatically loads that album into the list and starts playing it, but it's editable (unlike songbird playing from library). With songbird extension how it is now, you either have to start using the playlist, and manually drag whole albums in, OR you can play from library but have no control.
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This comment was removed on 12/09/08.
see the change log -
Let's get real here. <every> other media player besides Songbird has gotten the now playing list functionality just right. Come on SB please put this in the core ASAP!!</every>
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Except iTunes, which doesn't have it at all for some reason I've never been able to work out.
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ITunes has Party Shuffle. It's not exactly the same, but you can right click on a song and add it to the list.
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Inappropriate?Just a word to say how i'm disapointed by the absence of the Now Playing List feature. Like many other, i don't even understand why it's not integrated in the core since the very first version.
I don't see see how to use SB without it. It seems obvious to me that in most cases, we just want a temporary playlist, created with the mood of the moment...
I’m frustrated
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moshy gave a helpful exlanation why it is so complicated
here_
http://nowplayinglist.mozdev.org/drup...
anyway songbird even without songbird is ACME
_I'll be waiting_for the new update -
Inappropriate?There are quite a few more examples of things which you would have thought should really be part of the core player rather than requiring the user to go seek them out, since most people won't. Even with the suggested addons it seems a bit strange that they're not just part of songbird (such as ipod support)1 Comment Add a comment
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iPod support certainly shouldn't be in the core of Songbird. In the core should only be the feature that mjority of users will use or the features which simply can't be addons.
I certainly wouldn't want iPod support in core. I don't own an iPod and I never will. And I believe most Songbird users are like me. If you're looking for an open player, you're certainly not a big fan of proprietary solution (such as Apple's products).
But what most users want and what they certainly will use is a now playing list with the ability to quickly create temporal playlists and with the ability to queue tracks. This should be in the core. -
Inappropriate?I agree, but I think the reasoning behind the included iPod support is because they are trying to position themselves as an iTunes killer/alternative. And in order to capture these users they need to have out of box iPod support.
Note the obvious out of box iTunes look and feel...yuck!
Songbird is having a bit of an identity crisis IMHO.
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?Because this is a third-party add-on, and not part of the core, it will always feel and behave in an unintegrated manner. The best I can do is try and make improvements where it is actually possible.
The next version is going to have some more options:
I think there are more requested still ... -
Inappropriate?@moshy
Thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to see your plugin updated and working with 1.0. Have you ever talked with the developers regarding integrating your addon into the core? As you can it is very often requested here.
The idea to modify the current or create a new playlist is a very good one. Maybe a dropdown switcher for the playlists as I already suggested would be nice.
One comment for your screenshot: The options "Remove it from the queue" and "Scroll the list to the next track" should be able to work at the same time. Imagine you made a list which you want to play randomly. After playing a song you want to remove it and you also want the list to scroll to the next track. So please make checkboxes for these options instead of radio buttons.
One more thing. Let me insert here Winamp screenshot with a short description of it's behavior:
I think this is what most people (including me) are looking for.
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Inappropriate?@ Jech: that is what we need. Better queing options and managing of the queue
I’m disappointed
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Inappropriate?Yeah, Jechs suggestion implemented would be cool :-)
PS: About the Core or Add-on problem: If this add-on gets good enough, I think there is a good chance to implement it into the core. The album-art-pane, the album-art-manager and some others were included into the core, too, after they have been excellent add-ons and highly requested for a while.
From the developers side, there is no benefit of being coded into the core (it's not more easy, you can't do more), only for the users. If this add-on will be working better, we can try to vote it into the core. Until then, add-on status is fine. Just my 50 Cent. :-)
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Why it is not a good idea to have such an important functionality in addon can be seen right now. One month after the official release of 1.0 this component hasn't been updated. So no user of Songbird 1.0 can actually use it.
If the functionality would have been in the core, this couldn't happen.
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But this has nothing to do with being integrated into the core or not. Songbird developers also do help & work on add-ons. What I think you are asking for, is more attention by the developers for this feature (whether its an add-on or integrated). I certainly agree with this! But it can stay an Add-on and getting attention by the developers too, this does not depend on core-integration.
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JeCh still has a valid point though. When an addon such as this is viewed as essential by a significant number of users then it is incredibly annoying when a new version of Songbird is released and the user can't update to it right away as it breaks all addon support.
Perhaps a solution is for the Songbird developers to create a certain class/status of extensions which should be updated and certified prior to all significant releases of songbird. I.e. prior to a new release those extension developers with extensions in the "priority class" are informed that they need to release an update to be compatable with the upcoming Songbird version by a certain date.
I personally believe the Now Playing feature should be well integrated into the core though, based mainly on fact that I see it as a critical functional requirement for a media player with a media library structure. -
@fishe, I think the priority class is a great idea. I'm not sure what user wouldn't want this in the core, but it's such a crucial piece of functionality that it really needs to have the same priority as the core with each release.
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Inappropriate?There is a new version that works with Songbird 1.0, but I want to test it first before I upload it officially. You can get it here. Feature-wise it's not that much improved though.
I want to do a radical rewrite, but my plans depend on a patch to the core. I'll try and do that myself and see if it gets in, then maybe I'll be able to do what ruipenunes suggested......
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thanks this beta version already makes me (a new songbird user) unintall winamp
good work -
Inappropriate?@Moshy: All your work is greatly appreciated, you are a champion...But I would like to know if you might be able to shed some light on the reasoning behind why this feature/addon is not included in the build? This is a very basic and important part of any media player and just seems odd that it is only offered as an addon.
Thanks.
I’m confused
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I agree with you nicbot. I believe it is very important for a media player to constantly show a "now playing" status with a queue distinct from the media library. It makes a lot of conceptual sense.
I hate it "being lost" in the media library and the inability to quickly form a queue of tracks of play next. -
I agree with you nicbot. I believe it is very important for a media player to constantly show a "now playing" status with a queue distinct from the media library. It makes a lot of conceptual sense.
I hate it "being lost" in the media library and the inability to quickly form a queue of tracks of play next. -
Inappropriate?I agree. This needs to be a top priority.
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Inappropriate?The fact that the addon is still unavailable in a stable release for 1.0 just shows the grave issue of having such core and obviously wanted functionality as an addon...
But I don't mean to belittle the hard work of the extension developer - well done to you for filling this massive hole!
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?Hey people !
The windows media player 11 has the best layout , with you will make now playing do a clone of it (on songbird way) .
The now playing must be of the same of the addon "now playing"
I THINK YOU COULD DO A CLONE FROM WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER 11 WITH THE SAME I DID
I’m excited
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PS: I am not a good design... :P
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Inappropriate?Sorry Eric, I also could not understand what you wanted to say.
If you say it in german or spanish, i could translate.
I’m hoopy woopy doopy foopy koopy
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Inappropriate?@Erik Ch
What you are talking about is probably best done in a separate feathers add-on. I'm not opposed to it, but it's not really one of my priorities now. Currently I'm concentrating on rewriting it from the ground up to work with Songbird 1.1. It should be a whole lot better by then.1 Comment Add a comment
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Only copy all windows media player 11 design. The best layout for player ever...
@qways (SORRY, I MY LANGUAGE IS NOT GERMAN AND IS NOT SPANISH TOO :( ) -
Inappropriate?Hi moshy,
that sounds great. But I would maybe revise following points:
1) The tracks are displayed in the order they are going to play in
I'm not sure if this is a good idea. In fact no players I know do it this way. I would rather make it as an option. Personally I prefer to have the tracks sorted and in shuffle mode skip through the list up and down.
2) Change sort on the now playing list
Please make it work. One of the sorting parameters might be playback order in shuffle mode.
3) Switching between "Now playing" and "Custom playlist"
When will the Custom playlist switch back to "Now playing" and start synchronizing with main window? It might be useful to make a preference to disable it and add a button to switch it manually.
Please consider these changes. -
Inappropriate?@JeCh
1) "Personally I prefer to have the tracks sorted and in shuffle mode skip through the list up and down."
-- Well this is exactly what happens in the main window anyway. The reason why I do it like this is because lots of people like to use the now playing list as a queue, which requires the it to show the songs in the order they are queued up. If I did what you described, I would have to resort back to having 'modes' which didn't work. This way the transition from 'now playing' to 'queue' is seamless and doesn't require switching modes.
If you and others have strong objections I'll see if I can make a hidden preference or something, but I would rather get it working as it is first though.
2)
I've thought about making a column with the queue position as a number like Winamp, this is significantly more difficult than it looks due to the fact that a single playlist can contain the same track multiple times.
3)
Yeah, I hope to get a beta out soon so people can test it and see if there are better ways of doing this. Basically whenever the user starts playing a new playlist, the now playing list synchronises to it.
Thanks for your comments! -
Inappropriate?Thanks a lot for your reply. I'll try to describe my habits when using a media player to better describe how and why I would like Now Plying List work. What I describe works perfectly in Winamp, foobar2000 or Amarok (both 1 and 2), unfortunately not in Songbird yet.
1) I walk through my music collection, use different filters and searches and add the music I want to now plying list (called simply playlist in other players).
2) Now I usually end up with a selection in the order I created it. But usually this is not the order I want to play it. I prefer a shuffle mode which randomly selects tracks from the list I created.
3) Sometimes during listening I decide I want to hear a certain track as the next one. So I find the track and pres "Q" (queue). The track will be played next. I can add more tracks to the queue.
4) Foobar2000 has a very nice feature which allows to simply select a track (highlight it with cursor) and it will be played next. -
Inappropriate?How about adding another playlist like the "queue" playlist in Banshee? If the queue playlist is empty, the now playing list plays like it normally does. But if the queue is not empty, songs will be played from it until it is empty again before the now playing list resumes (of course when you add a song to the queue, it won't play until the current song has finished)
Btw. great work on the add-on. This is a really essential part of any music player, and should definitly be incorporated into the core at some point!
I’m excited
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Inappropriate?OK there's a new version uploaded, except you'll have to wait for Songbird 1.1 Beta 2 to use it (unless you download the nightlies).1 Comment Add a comment
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woot woot! :0)
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Inappropriate?Hi moshy,
thanks a lot for the new version. This a must have component for me. I see you released a new beta version. So I guess I'll let you know my thoughts and experiences after some time I'm trying it out.
Let's start with a media library. In the Now Playing List (NPL) I can see Title and Rating columns. Drag&Drop from library works correctly as expected.
Now comes the first problem. I filter out a certain artist or album, double click on a song and strange thing happens. NPL gets filled with the songs. But completely different names are displayed - the first songs from my library. If in the filter results were 10 songs, then the first 10 songs appear and after that the 1st song repeats many times. Also NPL doesn't show Title and Rating anymore, the columns get synchronized with main list.
After selecting a different filter, already correct files are displayed in NPL. But still the same columns as in main list.
No options are show for Now Playing List. But this probably isn't implemented yet, right?
If I try to Drag&Drop whole artist or album to NPL, nothing happens. Although the cursor is changed to the "+" sign, like if you add tracks.
The switching between the two modes is a little confusing, as I was afraid. A button with the current mode shown would be very useful. If I'm in the synchronization mode, I have to delete a track to leave it. It is a working workaround bot not an ideal solution IMO.
Also, if possible, as I already requested many times, please, please add the option to override double click action on track, genre, artist or album. I would like to have the double clicked items added to the end of NPL instead of start playing it.
Also the option to have the tracks in NPL sorted while in shuffle mode would be a plus for me. But this isn't a high priority thing. -
Inappropriate?Wow thats a lot, thanks for the early feedback.
1. NPL repeats the first song many times
OK, I didn't spot this first time round (that's why I need testers)
2. I am aware the columns jump around heaps, I thought I'd tackle it later since its not as important
3. I got rid of all the preferences because they didn't really apply anymore, I'll put them back in where they make sense
4. DnD from filters is supposed to work .. wierd
5. Switching modes is difficult is because now there isn't really a distinction between then two, they both just display what is now playing. I know you could say synchronised/unsynchronised are modes but its more an internal implementation detail. Can you tell me your reasons for wanting to do this?
(Also you can just click the x button and it will empty the list and go to 'unsynchronised', or at least it should)
6. Overriding double clicking: I'm more concerned about fixing glitchy behaviour at this point, but I definitely haven't forgotton.
7. Believe it or not, this seemingly simple idea might actually be the most difficult thing to do, with the code the way it is, and will be the last thing I look at .. sorry -
Inappropriate?I would like to see a new feature, or add-on that will add 2 editable play lists, and crosfadding options for that jukebox feel! That would be awsome!
I’m Darkman738
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This comment was removed on 02/21/09.
see the change log -
Maybe this is a nice idea, but you `re five steps ahead!
If you want to also help to improve moshy`s work by testing his odd-on to find the clitches that are still there. having "two" crosstalking now playng lists is probably best thought about when "one" is up and running smoothly.
Also I think crosstalkin playlists for a party would be best done with "regular" playlists (e.g. party left &party right) i don`t see the advantage of having this included in the "now playing" add-on. nevertheless, if you have reasons to believe it should I would be very interested. -
Inappropriate?qways:
I'd be more than happy to test products, but I do disagree that 2 lists are the answer... Personaly I like the the single list, 2 player approach, as it allows me to load a single list, and walk away. Where can I go to talk with Moshy?
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Hi frank, I think i dont got it quite right with what you meant the the first time .
But to interact with moshy you can post your betatester report here, since he participates in this thread or you can post your report directly at the addons site:
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/96
I`m also testing his add-on with the new nightly and think he made a huge leap forward. -
Inappropriate?I think it would also be cool if the now playing list had album artwork next to the tracks so you could visually see what tracks are in the list. It could look almost identical to this: http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/... (the lastfmSidebar addon). Tracks would take up more room, but I never have too many tracks queued up in the list anyway, so I think it would work fine.
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Inappropriate?The Now Playing add on is nice, but needs to be more robust. Songbird as a company needs to embrace it and fix it, and not just refer to it, otherwise this core basic feature of a media player (queue song, play next) reflects on Songbird application as a whole, as half-baked.
I’m hopeful.
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I'll second that.
But just to clarify, this has nothing to do with all the excellent work Moshy has put in and donated, it has to do with the Songbird team's unwillingness to address certain flaws in their product. Instead they tout the lack of certain de facto media player features as a sort of FEATURE of it's own...Someone needs to step up in the next SB team meeting and address this before it reaches the tipping point. -
Inappropriate?Yes, nothing to take away from the nice work that Moshy has done, and volunteered his personal time to make a nice plugin. Its a core feature of a media player.
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Inappropriate?This is most certainly a core feature of a media player.
The lack of this as part of a default songbird install is one of the applications greatest weaknesses. When non technical people don't immediately realize where to find it, they are unlikely to look for an extension. They are more likely to simply assume it doesn't exist and use another media player.
This should not be marked as "implemented".
I’m irritated that this thread is marked as implemented.
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Hey, that gives me an idea. Is the now-playing add-on in the suggested add-ons list that you see upon first-run?
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That would be a good idea. I think more people would discover it if they are looking for that feature after switching from other media players that have it, and maybe it would get more official support from the Songbird team.
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But the Now-playing add-on still has some issues to iron out before it's rolled out to everyone. It is brilliant, I agree, and definitely worth having - but it does tend to crash with large numbers of tracks. Would it be better to develop it a bit more first?
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Inappropriate?I'm excited to see this "issue" is thoroughly discussed. Don't know if it is suggested yet but I would like to see some kind of functionality as to adding albums (from the filter pane). Besides that I didn't really find (sorry it is a long discussion) a conclusive answer about why the "now playing" functionality is not incorporated into the core.
I like to thank moshy for all his efforts to build an add on to our needs but I can't escape the feeling he has to abandon some of his ideas and ignore some wanted suggestions because it is just an add on. I am sure the company and moshy are working tightly together but I would like to advice you to survey the wishes of many. And use that to find the best solution. Even if this means building from scratch. Because there is nothing worse than trying to fix a bad design.
As for the lay out. This is a completely different topic but some added flexibility would be nice. @JeCh: I really like your design especially moving the album art to the top left and integrate it into the play bar.
Keep on rocking!
I’m just adding to the mayhem
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Inappropriate?Please give us this playlist as a core feature! As long as it is only available as an add-on, Winamp will be superior...
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?My main problem with a lack of a Now Playing feature is that I don't have any way to separate what I'm playing from the Media Library. If I start to listen to an album, I want to be able to browse the Media Library at the same time without Songbird starting to play what I'm currently looking at once the current song has finished.
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Inappropriate?Hi, I'd just like to add something. I've been using Winamp for a number of years now, but it's lack of significant development lately has encouraged me to try other music players. Songbird is at the top of my list. However, I plan on uninstalling Songbird within a few minutes and waiting for it to mature due mainly to this problem (that, and the poor interface). The "Now Playing" add-on is nice, and is definitely a step in the right direction, however, it is far from ideal.
When I double-click on a song, it should be added to my "Now Playing" list, and ONLY that song should be added. I simply cannot stand that when I tell Songbird to play it song, it automatically queues my entire library. I'm sorry, but I find this behavior completely unusable.
This is one thing that Winamp does PERFECTLY. Please check out Winamp and look into how playlists and the media library are implemented. Just because iTunes doesn't disassociate the two concepts doesn't make it right.
Also, as stated, the main program should have this implemented by default. In fact, the program as a whole should be modeled around this system, rather than the afterthought add-on that is available.
Songbird is a great piece of software. It just needs a lot of work before I can find it to be a feasible alternative.
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Great feedback, thanks!
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**Sorry, issues adding multiple comments and deleting**
Hitchhiker427: Agreed.
Laura Thomas: I'd rather see no comment rather than a "Great feedback, Thanks!" All that says to me is 'Whatever, I'm busy trying to fill some quota and have better things to work on.'
How about some real 'Official Rep' words. Like we're working on it, or we're talking about it, or we don't feel like it... After all, it's been quite some time now and if all you come to the plate with is 'Great feedback' then it may just be time for me to give up all hope...argh
Pardon my obvious frustration guys. -
The whole point of GetSat is feedback - so this is hardly the platform from which to condemn it. If we were Devs then we could hangout over at bugzilla and achieve something, but I for one am not sadly, so I patiently await developments and participate in discussions over here. Yes, it can be frustrating waiting for critical features which we'd all like to see implemented and I'll be the first to admit that there are plenty of things which sb currently lacks - but the community surrounding the 'bird is why I think that eventually she will mature in to the potential she clearly has. Until then, let's try and be as helpful as possible.
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Double clicking on a song plays your library like normal. Whe can't you just click and drag your songs into the queue?
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@Dustin: The part I'm concerned with is your definition of "like normal". In my opinion, just because iTunes does it hardly makes it normal.
If I double click on a song, it should play that song. That's simple logic. Songbird currently does it, as it should.
However, when that song is complete, it should not play another song until I tell it to. The fact that it *assumes* that I want to immediately hear the next song in my library is annoying, and makes Songbird unusable for me.
There are plenty of new things in Songbird that I can get used to, however, this improper handling on the Library/Current Playlist is something that I cannot. -
Dustin> Just because double click is much more comfortable then drag&drop. If you are building a playlist with many songs, then even small things like this can annoy you.
But the worst thing is, if your accidental double click erases the whole playlist you created so far.
As I and many other people already suggested many times - do it like Winamp. Double click in Winamp has 2 modes, which can be switched in preferences:
1) Copy actual filter results to playlist and start playing it.
2) Enqueue the double clicked song (or artis, genre, album etc.) to the actual playlist
Most people use the mode "2". Winamp also offers the possibility to add some songs from the playlist to queue (see the screenshot I posted some time ago). Also if I select shuffle mode, the displayed song order shouldn't change, but instead of it, the cursor should jump up and down. This would also allow to use the "playback follows cursor" mode, known from foobar2000. Unfortunately moshy already said that this would be very difficult to implement. -
When I said normal, I only meant that it plays the way it does currently in Songbird. And who's to say that that way is "improper?" We've established that thereare two ways to handle playback.one shouldn't be more wrong than the other, except in personal opinion. So you can't come in here and say "this way is wrong, change it to this way." The best way to go about this is, like jech said, implement both modes with an option to switch.
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...alll about the options, man. We're an accomodating bunch! <3
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@Dustin: You're absolutely right, and I apologize. The way I described is what I feel is the best, and I sometimes forget that others may disagree. What I really want is the choice. I'll be reading through change logs for all future versions, anxiously awaiting this feature. Thanks to the Songbird devs for your consideration.
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Inappropriate?This thread continues to be active because we the (USERS)all see how important it is. But my feeling is the devs don't like it, so we're peeing in the wind. They don't care, don't want to care. As the Off. Rep inputs here show.
You know with all the talk about the rollout of Linux for more "ordinary" users (like me) the inability to find one single music player that will do what the Users want, is beginning to seem insurmountable.
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?Of course the devs care, after all they're designing a product and if nobody likes it then nobody will use it and they will go out of business. It's in thier best interest to build the best player possible. There are lots of things which I'd ike to see included ranging from the particularly simple (eg fade out instead of stop) to the somewhat improbable (eg make me a grilled cheese sandwhich with the album art of the current track lightly taosted on to the front) but at the end of the day, we can't expect it all to happen at once. Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. It's plain that plenty of notice is taken of the discussions on GetSat, by add-on authors and coders alike. If, like me, you don't fall in to that category, maybe this should serve as motivation to learn how we can do something of use to contribute - test a nightly or help out with simple problems on getsat, spread the word etc before we complain too loudly.
I’m determined to contribute something despite not knowing my C from my VB
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Alright Tim, that does it! I've had my eye on you for awhile and this makes it official. You are our newest (horns please) Songbird Champion! Huzzah! Thanks for your support. If you have any questions please email me at laura@songbirdnest.com
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Rediculously well said.
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Inappropriate?...really, it was nothing :P hehe, thank you kindly, I shall wear my shiny blue badge with pride. I'm glad to be involved!
I’m not humming anything by Queen. Much.
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Inappropriate?Wow. This is <exactly> like a work conversation. Goes like this:
Quarterly meeting: Me: "I've talked to a lot of our customers, what they really need is x".
Product Manager; "I hear what you're saying. But we only have y number of engineers and z resources with feature f to be worked on. So we can't do it right now. Maybe in the next rev or block point roll. Plus I've talked tothe Gartner Analysts and they say they expect to see a 500% increase in <this> segment of the market over the next 2 years".
Me: "Problem P stops them buying (using) our product. In the real world. Now".
Product Manager: "I hear what you're saying.....(repeat)"
Yearly review:
Product Manager prompted for towing company line. Now Senior Product Manager
Me: moved to yet another product and asked to rescue the sales guys on it.
Annual (if lucky) trip to Engineering headquarters:
Get hammered with the R&D engineers, on travel expenses. Tell 'em what customers need. They agree completely once they understand why. They often try to fix it without all the arguing/resources/time., in the background.
From certain points of view, i.e management, frank discussion of problems is seen as detrimental. Or my favourites "not in the team spirit" or "you're too Irish".
Point missed:
Me and all the others here are discussing and talking about this because we're still involved. We think implementing this is far more important that the "uh-huh" comments from the few songbird Reps here display.
</this></exactly>
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Inappropriate?Maybe you should get down to SF and go drinking with the boys! Hell if it works, I'd happily get a round in :P I'm on the wrong continent though.... Ultimately, I'm one of the 102 people here who agree that these suggested improvements need to be implemented. wish I could do more!
I’m buying the drinks in the name of progress
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Inappropriate?after all the hassle today I also like to add my five cents.......
if you look at the "idea kitchen"
http://wiki.songbirdnest.com/User:Ste...
it is obvious that the priorities of the users of the getsatifaction panel are very
mature and sensible for a media-mp3 player software (still they like the farting).
first priority: "sound" (this is the!!!!! basic function")
second priority: library sorting (this is a i-tunes feature....that comes along with downloading and buying music on the net and not paying attention to your file managing. This is very much the "APPLE" way of intuitive and user friendly)
third priority: the way of keeping library and actual playlist separate.
this can be called the "winamp" way.
the next thing people agree upon is to make songbird a bigger success.
and on place number five: is the burning /ripping option that is scheduled for ISAN.
I think that all the people that are collected on this thread (I feel its 500 posts) for one or the other reason have some sentiments for the bird.
And all of them really wish that it will become as successful as firebird.
however judging from the different background people come from (Itunes /Winamp- style) their demands are different (something very understandable).
After following this board for quite some time I have the feeling that the software and developers are more attracted to the apple way of things.....(the ipod add-on always is a high priority).
However the Company has to keep in mind that Apple is trying to sell the whole package and if SOngbird concentrates on winning and keeping Macusers primarily they must be aware that a proprietary company can always lock them out!
This is already apparent when you look at the problems with the "IPOD"touch.
I understand that Laura only means it well when she appreciates the great activity within this thread. And I like it that she expresses it because of her own fascination with songbird and the community.
because from what I see her main job is to really help people that use this forum for the first time trying to get answers how to work the program and to survey for new ideas and channel them to bugzilla.
You do a great JOB!
But I also understand NICBOT and all the others who feel frustrated for they miss some more official answer or statement.
I that if you analyze the survey you did some time ago you can find out what your
your user and potential for growth are.
My feeling is that the songbird could very much profit from the suggeastion to appeal to both haters AND lovers of i-tunes.
http://getsatisfaction.com/songbird/t...
Finally, I think it is fair and good that the developers don`t spend their time on this forum but instead of this really work on the bird.
You did a great job on: stability, file sorting, GSTREAMER, and memory consumption.
You rule! PRAISE!!!!!!!
But concerning the now Playing issue:
pleas either mark it:
the company is workin on this
or
the company is considering this
or (as with the icons)
the company has no plans to do this.
Thanks for reading.
I’m missing it, but loving the bird
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Wow, well on a personal note, thanks quays.
Half the room just came and read today's posts over my shoulder and may be hopping in here soon...my guess is "considering" is the best status as it is not really living anywhere official...i.e. not logged to bugzilla, or on the roadmap etc. but its popularity is undeniable when looking at its ranking in the idea kitchen. Still within this very thread there are 20 different suggestions for how it could/should work. Perhaps the best "next step" is for someone to compile these suggestions into one all inclusive Feature Suggestion on Bugzilla so it can really start to gain some speed. -
Great feedback, thanks!
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Thanks Laura, that's exactly what we wanted to hear - in fact when you posted that message I'd got most the way through composing a long post centring on the lack of (visible) acknowledgement and recognition this thread seemed to have received in terms of a thread status, roadmap entry, and bugzilla entries. It seems today things have come to a head and it's now getting the attention it deserves - huzzah! This sort of discussion and communications with your users is what I like so much about the bird and its community.
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qways> Also you should add the votes for suggestion "Please add an official Playlist Pane!" to this one. This makes it the 2nd most popular feature request.
Laura Thomas> Most of the suggestions here don't separate each other out. I think I agree with more then 90% of what has been requested in this thread. I would say this: Have a look at Winamp, foobar2000 and AmaroK, the three best players out there. Take the best from each of them. -
Inappropriate?So what Donalb is saying is, I am due for a promotion? :-P
Ok, look, I get that you, nicbot and probably even the silent majority here are all frustrated, and even if you don't want me to say I hear you, I actually really do. And that's my job, to hear you and pass your feedback on to the developers.
That being said, Donalb actually made my point for me in spades. We have a handful of developers, (of which I am not, btw) a thousand things on fire, a million things to do, and not enough time to do it all.
Today this sounds like the most important thing on the list, but a month ago it was CD rip/burn and EQ both of which we are currently working on for our next release.
We do listen, we do NOT just say uh huh, yeah right, whatever, but I do not have anything else to report right now. When I do, I assure you I won't hold back.
I’m all yeah, uh huh, I hear ya...
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I'm really stoked about ripping and burning & the EQ app :)
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Inappropriate?I'm reading so many times "_all_ user want this" etc. on this page, that I just wanted to say: I don't want this :)
I'm very happy with songbirds way of handling playing queue, and I prefer it over Winamps play-queue.
I’m happy
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Which is what? As a typical user I have no idea what Songbird's playing queue is. Is this a feature that is lost on me? Or an obscure "Add on", the ones I try don't seem to work for me. ( iTunes PartyShuffle works for me, combination of auto-dj and lets me add songs to top/bottom of queue)
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No add-on, it's just an unusual behavior compared to other players.
It's pretty easy, if you have understand it once:
If you doubleclick a song in any kind of playlist, Songbird starts playing this particular playlist as the "playing queue". It keeps playing this playlist, even if you change the view to another playlist.
To switch back to the playlist, which is currently being played (the playing queue), just click on the "now playing" song-title in the faceplate.
To start playing another playlist, just doubleclick a song in this other playlist.
I like this. -
One of the main problems with this approach is that you can not view both playlist and media library in the same window. Or can you?
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This comment was removed on 04/24/09.
see the change log -
additionally, a normal playlist has no special functionality. For example you can't automatically encue tracks into it by double clicking (as an option) etc.
Therefore it doesn't meet the requirements of a 'now playing list'...your suggestion and grasp of the concept isn't relevant to the discussion here. -
Well, it doesn't seem to meet YOUR requirerments. And that's all I say: many posts here suggest that EVERYBODY dislike the current way of playlist handling, but that isn't true. Different people have different needs. It does meet my requirement and I don't need a change. I even like it better than Winamp-Style, to which so many people are referring to. That's all I say.
PS: If I want to play a custom ordered playlist, where I can add songs to, while I'm playing it, I use a custom playlist and drag&drop the files from the library to it. -
I'm satisfied with the Status Quo! :D
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atreiu, you're missing the point a bit. This thread is all about a Now Playing List which performs functions over and above what a normal play list does. This is the reason such functionality exists in the first place - it isn't merely a play list.
It's great that you're happy with Songbird the way it is, but it's pointless you coming on here and saying that you're happy with the playlist handling. We're not talking about play list handling, that is a separate issue. We're talking about additional functionality here.
Agreed that the posts here reflect inaccurately that everybody wants this functionality - that is generally a way people write to make a point - no need to take it literally. The popularity of this thread, of the add-on page on the website, of winamps media management etc. is testament to the effectiveness of a 'now playing list' function. -
Fishe, I believe you're missing the point a bit. 779Chris asked about Songbird's current way of playing songs, and although it is a slight tangent, atreiu answered his question, rather than yelling at him for not staying on topic.
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granted Dustin. I just wanted to make a clear distinction between play lists and now playing list functionality. The former is not a substitute for the later.
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Agreed.
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Winamp in default configuration behaves just like Songbird. It just has an addition now playing list window (which can be closed). But it has the options to change it. It also has an option to queue songs in the now playing list. That's all I ask for.
I don't want to change current default behavior. I just ask for more option which better fulfill my needs. And apparently also the need of many other users. -
Inappropriate?Am I wrong, but the switching you describe causing a song to stop mid-song and switch to another song immediately. Yes/No? If yes, that is exactly the problem, its ungraceful switching.Have you used iTunes party shuffle? I consider that really nice. "Play next in Party Shuffle" , "Add to Party Shuffle".1 Comment Add a comment
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No, switching to another view doesn't interfere with playback or the playing queue in any way, as long as you don't start playing another song (by doubleclick it or something)
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Inappropriate?Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I would add here that all lists in Songbird lack the ability to drag'n'drop.
To better illustrate my point, the feature I speak of is standard in Media Monkey. The user may re-arrange the tracks in their library view or playlist via dragging. Furthermore, the user may drag a track from their library view onto their playlist.
Having "Play Next" and "Play Last" available from a right click menu can be streamlined by the ability to drag and drop within a list and/or to another list (i.e. from Library view to Now Playing List). My main concern is to be able to re-arrange a playlist to my preferance.
My 2 cents.
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Also, dragging a track from songbird to "outside" songbird does not work (e.g. I'd often like to be able to drag a song from songbird to skype/thunderbird/pidgin/etc.)
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Wait, Kaze, what? I drag songs from my library to my playlists all the time.
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@Dustin Paluch,I have just tested it again now. It does appear to work via the Library to Now Playing, however it did not with my smart playlist. That is to say drag'n'drop and drag to re-arrange.
My apologies I should have performed more testing. I would like the ability to be added to smart playlists though. -
I think drag and dropping should replace everything, logical controls FTW none of this right click "need to know whats there" crap with media players
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kazemizuhi> It's not possible to allow reorganization of songs in a dynamic playlist IMO. Dynamic playlists are generated again after each change to your library. This simply can not work together.
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@JeCh. I understand a dynamic playlist cannot hold my prefered order forever as it is constantly changing. That said, there should be no technical reason why the user may not re-arrange their lists. Let us assume I have a list consisting of 4(max) tracks:
1.A .... 2.B .... 3.C .... 4.D
I then re-arrange them to my preferance:
1.C .... 2.D .... 3.B .... 4.A
According to the rules set for this smart playlist, the track titled 'B' is now superceded by a track titled 'X' from my library. Track 'B' is thus removed and track 'X' is added to the end of my list thereby maintaining my order (sans 'B'):
1.C .... 2.D .... 3.A .... 4.X
I therefore only need to periodically alter the order. -
I understand that such a method may not work for all smart playlists, but for small (50 tracks) lists where the criterion is primarily rating and/or playcount (which I use myself) I can see this working well. The only way to accomplish what is detailed above right now, would be to copy all the tracks from a smart playlist into a standard playlist every time the smart playlist changed it's selection of tracks.
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Something like this might work, but I can imagine that implementing it might be quite difficult. Would it be a big problem to copy all the files from a dynamic playlist to a common playlist a rearrange that one?
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No, it's not too much effort to copy the contents of a dynamic playlist to a common playlist. However it is like the difference between having to 'right-click' a track and selecting 'play now' and just double clicking it. Which is to say if it would not be too difficult to implement, then the feature may as well be implemented.
I know little of the coding behind drag'n'drop, but it is a feature implemented in other areas of the application. I would have then assumed it would be a very simple feature to transfer over to another area of the application. It's not the most critical of features on the road-map, but it would be nice to have. -
Inappropriate?I didn't see this mentioned yet, but maybe a solution to the problem of some people wanting a song to play on double click and some wanting it to enqueue could be that the user has to hold down a key such as alt while double clicking for the track to enqueue, otherwise it will just play. In fact, maybe it could just be alt and single click so people don't have to worry about resetting the list they were making if they accidentally just double click because they aren't pressing alt hard enough. I used to use Winamp back in the day and I think it could do something similar.
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Inappropriate?I don't think that keys would be necessary. They'd make the program handling more difficult. A good program can be controlled entirely by mouse. Users should have the option to choose the default click behavior in some options menu.
But the best way in my opinion is to have play on doubleclick and enqueue by right-click menu.
Good thing is, all these ideas could exist in parallel.2 Comments Add a comment
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No, the best way is to have everything customizable as killersquirell suggest.
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I agree.
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Inappropriate?Why not let the user decide what happens on double click?
- Songbird should incorporate several playlist options (such as "play", "enqueue next", "enqueue last" etc) in a "mouse control" menu and give the user the possibility to choose from several actions (such as click on a song/album/link, double click, click+key combination) and thus make the controls completely customizable.
Concerning the problem of losing your current playlist by accidentally double-clicking etc:
- Songbird should provide an option to undo changes to your playlist, e.g. in the playlist's context menu (MediaMonkey has this) or as playlist control buttons.
- Furthermore, drag+drop for as many parts of the application as possible should be available, as it's the most intuitive way of using a program.
I’m hopeful
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If the dev's are to implement something, I believe we should all come to a consensus on what it is we want. I believekillersquirrel's post above, summarises the best ideas put forth here. Yes?
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Inappropriate?Would be cool to have the total duration of the whole nowplaying list... it's far more useful that the number of items (but keep it too)...
I’m surely right, yep?
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Inappropriate?I think you should start thinking ahead with the now playing list.
Curently, editing playlist isn't an easy experience compared to other players such as amarok, real and wmp. Making playlist editing easyer should be a priority since it is the basis of automatic mp3 sync and will be the basis of cd burning among other things.
- playlist properties should detail total size and total play length
I’m patient
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Inappropriate?I can't figure out why this functionality is missing in songbird. you would expect that this is a basic function of a player. Maybe because an add-on is available, that is has no high priority to implement. I'm waiting on the implementation, and in maintime i'll "(ab)use" the add-on
I’m anxious and frustrated
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Inappropriate?Firstly,
I love the way this thread has taken a life of it's own!
Secondly,
I've released a new version, which addresses most people's concerns. The three big improvements are filtering/searching is independent of the list, shuffling is integrated (no more disabled shuffled buttons, and extra randomise buttons) and column sorting works.
Unfortunately I couldn't get the feature where double clicking on a track queues it up, instead of replacing the now playing list. I was soo close, but there's a weird bug in Songbird itself preventing me from doing the final step. I shouldn't be telling you this but go to about:nowplayinglist for a taste of what I was gonna do. That page won't do anything though, it's just there to look pretty for the moment.
Cheers!
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Thank you moshy! I'm so glad that the update fixes this problem.
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You Rock moshy! Thanks!
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w00t w00t! So awesome!
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This makes my life complete!! Thank you so much!!
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This is AWESOME!
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This is great! A couple of requests:
- Can you add an option in about:nowplayinglist to *only* populate the list with what I double-click on? For example, if I click on a song in my library, only that song should populate the list. If I double click on an album or an artist, only that album or artist would populate the list.
- Additionally, can you add the functionality so that the now playing list doesn't clear itself out when I close Songbird?
Thanks, this is great. -
Inappropriate?Hi moshy,
Thanks for the big improvement. It's great that now I can sort the Now Playing List.
I'm wondering if this could be implemented:
Currently if I enable shuffle, then the list randomizes itself. I would prefer the behavior of most other players (Winamp, foobar2000, AmaroK). In these players if I select random (shuffle) mode, the list order doesn't change. But random songs are selected. Could this be implemented?
Also this would allow (I believe) additional features known from foobar2000 such as "Playback follows cursor", which means that a highlighted (selected) song starts playing after the current one finishes.
Also I believe that a queue system as known from Winamp, foobar2000 or AmaroK can be implemented then. The queue should be a next level of playback order management. Currently in Songbird are only 2 levels: Library -> Now Playing List. But i would like to se it go like this: Library -> Now Playing List -> Queue.
The queue should work just like in other players. I will select a song and by pressing "Q" (or other keyboard shortcut) the song will be added to queue, which is marked by a number of queue position. After the queue finishes the playback continues from the now playing list. Have a look at my screenshot of Winamp which shows the queue system.
Do you think this is possible without too much effort? -
Inappropriate?Why not make the Now Playing list the Queue itself?
The added songs would be played in order. When the playback closes to the end of the list, if the user hasn't added some new songs, Songbird would do this automatically, choosing n random songs from one or more playlists, smart playlists, a custom criteria, or from the whole database.
The already played songs may also be removed from the playlist after a while, so you don't end up with a very long list.
For example, you could set songbird to keep the last 3 songs played, and always populate the list with 10 songs which will follow. You would have a continuous flow of songs.
When you want to enqueue a song, you select it from Songbird's main view, and you may choose Play Now, Play Next (after the current song) or Play Last (the last song from the list).
You may also choose to remove songs which have been automatically enqueued by Songbird, if you don't feel like listening to them.
I think that such a functionality would provide Songbird with a listening experience that would be much above the othe media players out there.
I’m excited
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I agree that the Now Playing list should be the queue list. Winamp does have a playlist and separate queue list (within the jump-to-file dialog I believe), but I think that is because so many people use the playlist window in Winamp to display all of their music library, rather than using the playlist window as a now playing list. In Songbird, I think the Now Playing list is the queue list, and I think having a separate level be the queue would be really confusing.
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I agree 100% with Murphy.
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This comment was removed on 05/11/09.
see the change log -
Actually, Murphy, as a long time user of Winamp, that's not really how it works. If anything, Winamp uses the Playlist editor as the Now Playing and the Queue. Your direction to incorporate both is almost identical to Winamp's behavior (which I like). The jump-to-file feature is simply a method to search within the Now Playing, just in case you add a large number of songs. BTW, adding a search feature to the Now Playing would be kinda cool. It is useful in Winamp, and would also be useful in Songbird.
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I think I should describe how I use a music player to make it clear why I want 3 playback management levels (library, playlist (now playing list) and queue). Very often I make a mix of different songs from my library and listen to it randomly. Then after hearing a certain song I decide I want to listen to more songs of the same style or artist so I insert 2 or 3 tracks into queue. After the queue finishes the playback of my playlist continues just like before.
I do believe this is not very unusual behavior because I've seen my friends using their media players (usually Winamp) just like this.
Currently I can do this in Songbird by rearranging the now playing list but it's not very comfortable. I believe the solution for all my requests is to have two separated track lists: the displayed tracks and the real (but invisible by default) order in which they will play. -
Inappropriate?So how come the NPL still loads up everything in the media window on double click/play?
Was this not a bug identified ages ago? Seems highly unusual behaviour. So if you just start up songbird, double click any file, it loads the entire library in. Point?
I’m frustrated
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i like it that way enqueue works nicely with drag `n drop and when I start doubleklickling e.g track three of an ist adds all the following songs of that album.
of course you have to select it in the media view.
But i like that aproach very much.
since drag and drop work and rightclick queue next/last works
imho this approach gives you the optimal freedom.
IT ́s not a bug its a feature -
i like it that way.
enqueue works nicely with drag `n drop and when I start SB by doubleklickling e.g track three of an album it adds also all the following songs of that album.
of course you have to select it in the three panel media view.
But i like that approach very much.
since drag and drop works and also rightclick queue next/last works
imho this approach gives you the optimal freedom.
IT ́s not a bug its a feature -
of course the "q" button and "right-click" in the album or artist filter pane would be nice
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Moshy already wrote that he tried to assign add to NPL to doubleclick. But he run into some problems. See Moshy's post from 6th May.
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