Spotify access from the living room (XBMC)

So far Plex is just a fork of XBMC for Mac with a few small changes to the code that adds some Mac specific features and functions, no matter what you believe the 99.9999999% (if not more) of Plex code base is the exact same source code as XBMC, and the same goes for Boxee, thus I am sure that if Spotify was available for XBMC then it would not take very long before it was availabe in Plex and Boxee too.

As for XBMC being a thing of the past, well XBMC has over ten times as many end-users and ten times as many developers as Plex, active developers who make ten times as many source code commits to the XBMC SVN, ...and unlike Plex, XBMC does not only run on Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) but on Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger), the Apple TV, the original Xbox, all Linux distributions, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and now even on Windows 7.

This 'fan boy' discussion about XBMC verses Plex does however not belong here. ( Delete or Edit)

Really?
So the Plex media center functionality exists in XBMC?
Looks like you've missed the part where 0.7 is where they really started moving away from XBMC, instead of mainly polishing things in the 0.5 branch.

Maybe you should've read my other posts instead of writing a blatantly false knee-jerk reaction of a post.

Plex is gaining ground on a daily basis, and the Plex team's goals are somewhat different from the XBMC ones. Plex is deliberately focusing on Leopard and later, so it's kind of silly of you to point out XBMC's cross-platform compatibility in a thread where the OP is talking about a Mac Mini.

The codebase differs by quite a bit more than 0.0000001% -- you really should try and quantify any statistics instead of making them up on the spot -- especially when they're completely unrealistic.

Anyone looking at using a Mac as a HTPC should be looking at Plex or Boxee over XBMC for the simple reason that a tailored solution is always better than the generic one-size-fits-all solution.

I'm not a "fan boy" as such.
I'm advocating for better solutions instead of one-size fits all.

Since the OP mentioned a Mac Mini, I advocated Plex (you'll see that if you keep reading the thread instead of cherry picking the posts you reply to, heh), and you'll find that he seems to be pretty happy with my suggestion.

Perhaps you should try Plex out, or failing that, explain why you think XBMC is so much better given the context of this thread
That way, people can read opinions from people who've tried the different options and see which solution fits them the best.

I'd venture a guess saying 90%+ of the people looking at using XBMC or one of the forks on a Mac aren't interested in editing config files. They want things to work in a simple, sane, logical way, and Plex meets that criteria.

Another thing that doesn't belong here is necroposting.
Either way, I'm out of this thread for now. ( Delete or Edit)

Well, I am one the project managers on XBMC and been so since 2002 when we first started with XBMC, I guess that make me bias but it also give the insight to inform you of the hard cold fact is that ~99.9999999% of the lines of code in Plex really is exactly the same as XBMC, I am not kidding and it is not unrealistic.
http://xbmc.org/about/team/

Advantage users do not need to edit any config files in XBMC neither, only people who want to access very advanced features need to do that and that is the same with Plex (see advancedsettings.xml), and the OP wrote "XBMC", not "Plex" in the topic summery. XBMC goals has always been about improving user-friendliness, that is one of the reasons why Plex forked XBMC and not a other media center software to base their software on:
http://xbmc.org/about/vision/

Plex default GUI only looks different that XBMC default GUI because they are using a other skin, a skin which by the way is not made by Plex themselves but by a third-party group who designed it XBMC (and not specifically to Plex):
http://teamrazorfish.co.uk/mediastrea... ( Delete or Edit)

So you, a project leader for XBMC are saying that out of ten million lines of code, Plex has one line (or less) different?
Really, could you be more of an ass?

You're completely disregarding the changes made in the 0.7 branch, and XBMC isn't all XBMC code either (given that the video playback core is basically MPlayer) etc., so I could just say that XBMC is 99.99% the work of others.
My claim is just as exaggerated as yours is.

Do you see how much of an ass that would make ME look?

I'm all for having several options, but the fact of the matter is that a project specializing in a platform is going to be more native like, and with Plex being focused on a Mac OS version (traditionally known for its easy-to-use factor and integrated media platform), it is going to result in a media center easier to use for the average joe.

I don't see a XBMC configuration in the Logitech Harmony database, but there is one for Plex, making it that much simpler for Papa Joe to get started on using his media center.

I don't see XBMC supporting iTunes DRM -- feel free to point out if I'm wrong, a quick google search said it only supports non-DRMed aac.

While it's great that XBMC has been around for years, it's NOT the end all be all you'd like to paint it up to be, and contrary to your rather disheartening stance towards the other players, there IS a market for XBMC derivatives and other media center products.

Everyone acknowledges that XBMC has done many great things for the HTPC audience, but that doesn't mean XBMC is always the best option.

If you want to talk statistics, get some real data. ( Delete or Edit)

Credibility rating by Zaptor: Oscar 0.1% Andreas 99.99% ( Delete or Edit)

@Zaptor: Go ahead and troll as much as you want -- I'm not biting.
Any XBMC developer would likely agree that there's a lot more than a 0.0000001% difference in the Plex/XBMC codebase, but then again, our friend Andreas is a project leader who says himself he couldn't code to save his life (that's fine btw.).

As a project manager (and thusly a representative of Team-XBMC), he should know how to properly back up his statistics with data and know not to make false statements, no matter how good the project he represents is.

Feel free to inject more irrelevant statements though. ( Delete or Edit)

You go count lines of code yourself if you like to prove yourself wrong or right.

The OP is by the way asking for XBMC support, this request is about XBMC.

So YOU are the one that is trolling! ( Delete or Edit)

No, Andreas, I'm not trolling.
I'm discussing things in a rather civil matter and backing up my statements with facts.
That's not trolling.

Now, you still haven't gotten back to the question of Logitech Harmony support, Plex's "Media Server" functionality or being able to play iTunes DRM files, yet you keep spouting that only (at most) one out of ten million lines of code in the Plex project is unique, despite being called out on it.
That's a rather harsh insult towards the Plex team.

Furthermore, it's completely ridiculous, and here's why:
As of February 2008, the XBMC codebase was just over four million lines of code ( http://www.ohloh.net/p/xbmc/analyses/... ).
While the amount of code has definitely gone up since, it hasn't gone up near enough to even be remotely close to ten million lines of code.
This means that even a single line of code that is unique to Plex shatters your statistics, and I can guarantee that there's way more than one line of code unique to the project.

Now, as I've mentioned several times, XBMC is a great product -- nobody's not talking it down here, remember that!

Me? I've simply been extolling the virtues of single-platform focus (portability is great to have, but user friendliness and platform consistency is extremely important).

I was hoping you (being a project leader and all) would be able to have a civil conversation filled with verifiable facts rather than making them up on the spot.

You being a project leader for XBMC is probably a great thing for the XBMC project -- I mean, the project is still relevant, and that's no mean feat for community software.
With that said, your bias and emotional attachment seem to be clouding your judgement when it comes to comparisons and competition, and that's not a great thing.

I'm not sure what your beef with Plex is, but I guess it could be that both Plex and Boxee have been enjoying the limelight for a while. You should keep in mind that not one of the projects is hiding where its roots come from; they do in fact thank the XBMC and the community for putting in so much effort over the past few years.

In other words, it's rather childish of you to claim that the Plex team can't write a single line of code.

Now, before you reply, re-read what I've said, and note that I've quantified my data.
Calm down a bit and realize that I'm not attacking you, your project, your family or your religion -- there's no need for you to be so evasive and defensive.

If you post facts that you can back up, I'm all ears, and would be happy to continue the conversation -- otherwise, I'll try to let this be my final word. ( Delete or Edit)

The Xbox itself will "never" be able to run Spotify itself, this much is true.
Getting any software compiled for the Xbox involves using the Xbox SDK (i.e., the set of tools and libraries used to develop for the Xbox itself).
The Xbox has reached its "End Of Life" status, meaning it's no longer getting assembled, and most likely no new titles published for it, so Spotify wouldn't be able to legally build a "native" application for it.

On the other hand, the Xbox is perfectly capable (though illegally) to run Linux, on which you'd be able to get Spotify running -- but then you wouldn't be running XBMC, as the console is only able to run one native program at a time (linux is for all intents and purposes considered to be one native program here, as it's mainly the bootloader that starts as an Xbox binary).

When you have a computer runing Spotify though, writing a python script acting as a XBMC plugin towards Spotify, you'll be able to control Spotify from within XBMC -- possibly (though improbable) to the point of having the Xbox actually handle the audio content.
The reason I say improbable is that some clever person would just decide that any 30 second tracks are ads and remove them ;)

In other words, while the Xbox with XBMC was awesome as a mediacenter "back in the day", it's just not versatile enough to be considered a proper HTPC today.

Of course, since XBMC has been ported to Linux and the Xbox Linux distributions should have pretty decent drivers now, you could jump through hoops and install Linux on the XBOX, XBMC and WINE in Linux and run Spotify through WINE.

That, however, is a shaky proposition at best, but theoretically possible (hence the "never" above -- if there's a will, there's a way; but it won't be pretty).
It would still require the cross-platform API (or different native platform APIs) to actually integrate it into XBMC running in Linux on the XBOX.

I'd sooner recommend someone buying an AppleTV or a Mac Mini (depending on whether or not you want to play HDTV content) to run XBMC or Plex with Spotify.

Sure, it costs a bit of money, but on the other hand you get a fairly competent and integrated platform, rather than trying to glue something together on a seven year old unsupported platform.

Sad, but true :(
You've inspired me to dig up my old Xbox though so I can play some Fable and Jade Empire :P ( Delete or Edit)

Yes, I've run XBMC on my Xbox.
I have a 160GB disk in mine, wherever it is.
I used it for media and for launching games, used it as a web server on occasion.

I miss out on absolutely no advantages.
On the contrary, an OS based solution is better for many reasons; especially Mac based solutions.
My Mac Mini makes *no* audible noise, even when playing back 1080p x.264 content over the network (also, it wakes up from sleep in less than three seconds). Network shares work even better on the Mac because of something called "Bonjour" (Later known as ZeroConf).
I don't care about ffdshow, as I run a Mac (and this should be glaringly obvious by now).

Again, Plex is a fork of XBMC, so anything you can list as a pro, I can too.
I also have the pros of being able to run a browser, IM applications, read my email, play HD content and what not.

All in the space of a box slightly taller than five stacked CD cases, normally drawing less power (and at worst, the same amount) compared to an Xbox running XBMC.

The thing the Xbox really had going for it was the low cost (yes, the Mac Mini costs more than an Xbox did, but it's a worthy tradeoff).

The reason I mentioned the ATV was specifically for SD content, whereas the Mini is more suited for those who want to play HD content.
It *can* handle Matroska just fine, just not with in the default Apple configuration.
If the community could gain access to the h.264 accelerator chip, it would be able to handle at least 720p MKV at high bitrates without a problem.

The Mini has optical out and DVI out (i.e., HDMI without audio), so it handles *my* needs just fine (and yes, that means digital audio and graphics).

As for why Spotify would be compiled against MS' "XDK", it's simple.
Spotify will never (note that there are no quotes around the word this time) give out the encryption key for the files it caches (in other words, you won't be able to write a third-party Spotify player -- you could at most write an interface for it, but a proper version of Spotify needs to reside somewhere).
You're simply not going to be able to query the Spotify P2P network, grab the songs you want and store them unencrypted on disk. ( Delete or Edit)

Oscar you have convinced me even more to buy a Mac Mini. And I will certainly try out the Plex alternative. I guess it's time to let the kids inherit the xbox :-). ( Delete or Edit)

One question Oscar - is it possible to share a common storage between a Mac Mini and a PC? What I understand OS X does not support NTFS formatted discs?

Is a NAS based solution the only affordable alternative to share media files in a OS mixed network? Or do you have any other recommendations? Would be really interesting to hear your opinion regarding the subject. ( Delete or Edit)

Laminat: Leopard is able to read NTFS, but not write to it without third party software.
In a network environment, you could simply use Windows Filesharing to enable read/write access without any third party software, but you'd need a machine running that has all the media on it.

Windows Filesharing (SMB) is filesystem transparent -- meaning the "host" operating system knows about what the format of the disk is, but the clients accessing it don't have to have the slightest clue about NTFS.

In my opinion, the best way to handle the mixed-network approach is simply to use Windows filesharing. NAS devices use it, both Windows and OS X can use it and it's already built in.

My personal setup is a computer with a few external harddrives plugged into it, sharing them with Windows Filesharing.
The disks are formatted HFS+ (Apple's default filesystem), but since they're shared with SMB (among other things), windows machines can access them just fine (and like I said, the reverse holds true just as well. NTFS formatted disks are no problem, so long as the host computer or NAS device understands NTFS.

A quick heads up re: Mac Mini.
It wasn't updated at the MacWorld conference yesterday, and all the rumor sites are confused as to why it wasn't updated.
Most people seem to agree that the timeframe for an updated Mac Mini is now "before the end of January".
Apple were a bit short on time during the keynote, and I'm guessing the update to the Mini is significant enough that they want to hold a small event for it.
Personally, I've got my credit card ready for when it's released, along with iLife 09 which is just looking sweeter than ever. ( Delete or Edit)

Thanks a lot for you detailed explanation.

I'm currently helping my father in investing a suitable mediacenter solution so I will recommend a used Mac Mini in combination with an external disc ( should be good enough). I'll use MacDrive to access the external disc from Windows (that would eliminate the need of setting up a WLAN at his place). ( Delete or Edit)

Popcorn hour does not run a supported OS, so at best you could use it as a remote for Spotify running elsewhere. ( Delete or Edit)

OK. Does anyone know how to accomplish this? ( Delete or Edit)

You have to wait for the API to be released, and for someone to write software for the popcorn hour (a "User App" in popcorn hour language).
This can take anywhere from an hour to never, depending on how many developers are interested in seeing PCH control Spotify.

For Plex (and thus by more or less all XBMC forks), it will be more or less the first week/days after an API release, but it's all up to the respective comunities. ( Delete or Edit)

Zaptor: He's not stating any facts.
He's making things up, when he knows full and well that the Plex team writes some code of their own and changes more than 1/10000000 lines of code.

I'm always willing to listen to people, but not when they make up bullshit facts. ( Delete or Edit)

This is the way i run Spotify today but my living room is to crammed to house another appliance so I still want my Media Center of preference (XBMC) to run Spotify, besides controlling it with a remote control is preferred. ( Delete or Edit)