Spotify access from the living room (XBMC)
I really enjoy Spotify. Currently I can only access Spotify from my pc at work or at home. But what I really want is to use Spotify in our living room. I would like to see a script/plugin for the new XBMC MediaCenter Atlantis release (it’s now available for Mac, PC, Linux and XBOX). For example - a Mac Mini with XBMC MediaCenter is a very attractive solution (it’s just the Spotify plugin that is missing).
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
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The best points from everyone
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Oscar: Plex is a compilation of plugins and skins ontop of XBMC so dream on.
Of course we want a XBMC plugin!!!
I’m excited
4 people think
this is one of the best points
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xbmc isnt a thing of the past (maybe for mac) but i still use it for windows and on my xbox and there is a huge community of developers and users it would be great to see a spotify plugin for xbmc
5 people think
this is one of the best points
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XBMC is a thing of the past, especially for the Mac.
Instead we have Plex (built partly on old XBMC), which is heads, shoulders and a skyscraper above XBMC.
I'd love to be able to write a Spotify plugin for it, and they say there's a Spotify API coming :)
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?XBMC is a thing of the past, especially for the Mac.
Instead we have Plex (built partly on old XBMC), which is heads, shoulders and a skyscraper above XBMC.
I'd love to be able to write a Spotify plugin for it, and they say there's a Spotify API coming :)
3 people think
this is one of the best points
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So far Plex is just a fork of XBMC for Mac with a few small changes to the code that adds some Mac specific features and functions, no matter what you believe the 99.9999999% (if not more) of Plex code base is the exact same source code as XBMC, and the same goes for Boxee, thus I am sure that if Spotify was available for XBMC then it would not take very long before it was availabe in Plex and Boxee too.
As for XBMC being a thing of the past, well XBMC has over ten times as many end-users and ten times as many developers as Plex, active developers who make ten times as many source code commits to the XBMC SVN, ...and unlike Plex, XBMC does not only run on Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) but on Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger), the Apple TV, the original Xbox, all Linux distributions, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and now even on Windows 7.
This 'fan boy' discussion about XBMC verses Plex does however not belong here. -
Really?
So the Plex media center functionality exists in XBMC?
Looks like you've missed the part where 0.7 is where they really started moving away from XBMC, instead of mainly polishing things in the 0.5 branch.
Maybe you should've read my other posts instead of writing a blatantly false knee-jerk reaction of a post.
Plex is gaining ground on a daily basis, and the Plex team's goals are somewhat different from the XBMC ones. Plex is deliberately focusing on Leopard and later, so it's kind of silly of you to point out XBMC's cross-platform compatibility in a thread where the OP is talking about a Mac Mini.
The codebase differs by quite a bit more than 0.0000001% -- you really should try and quantify any statistics instead of making them up on the spot -- especially when they're completely unrealistic.
Anyone looking at using a Mac as a HTPC should be looking at Plex or Boxee over XBMC for the simple reason that a tailored solution is always better than the generic one-size-fits-all solution.
I'm not a "fan boy" as such.
I'm advocating for better solutions instead of one-size fits all.
Since the OP mentioned a Mac Mini, I advocated Plex (you'll see that if you keep reading the thread instead of cherry picking the posts you reply to, heh), and you'll find that he seems to be pretty happy with my suggestion.
Perhaps you should try Plex out, or failing that, explain why you think XBMC is so much better given the context of this thread
That way, people can read opinions from people who've tried the different options and see which solution fits them the best.
I'd venture a guess saying 90%+ of the people looking at using XBMC or one of the forks on a Mac aren't interested in editing config files. They want things to work in a simple, sane, logical way, and Plex meets that criteria.
Another thing that doesn't belong here is necroposting.
Either way, I'm out of this thread for now. -
Well, I am one the project managers on XBMC and been so since 2002 when we first started with XBMC, I guess that make me bias but it also give the insight to inform you of the hard cold fact is that ~99.9999999% of the lines of code in Plex really is exactly the same as XBMC, I am not kidding and it is not unrealistic.
http://xbmc.org/about/team/
Advantage users do not need to edit any config files in XBMC neither, only people who want to access very advanced features need to do that and that is the same with Plex (see advancedsettings.xml), and the OP wrote "XBMC", not "Plex" in the topic summery. XBMC goals has always been about improving user-friendliness, that is one of the reasons why Plex forked XBMC and not a other media center software to base their software on:
http://xbmc.org/about/vision/
Plex default GUI only looks different that XBMC default GUI because they are using a other skin, a skin which by the way is not made by Plex themselves but by a third-party group who designed it XBMC (and not specifically to Plex):
http://teamrazorfish.co.uk/mediastrea... -
So you, a project leader for XBMC are saying that out of ten million lines of code, Plex has one line (or less) different?
Really, could you be more of an ass?
You're completely disregarding the changes made in the 0.7 branch, and XBMC isn't all XBMC code either (given that the video playback core is basically MPlayer) etc., so I could just say that XBMC is 99.99% the work of others.
My claim is just as exaggerated as yours is.
Do you see how much of an ass that would make ME look?
I'm all for having several options, but the fact of the matter is that a project specializing in a platform is going to be more native like, and with Plex being focused on a Mac OS version (traditionally known for its easy-to-use factor and integrated media platform), it is going to result in a media center easier to use for the average joe.
I don't see a XBMC configuration in the Logitech Harmony database, but there is one for Plex, making it that much simpler for Papa Joe to get started on using his media center.
I don't see XBMC supporting iTunes DRM -- feel free to point out if I'm wrong, a quick google search said it only supports non-DRMed aac.
While it's great that XBMC has been around for years, it's NOT the end all be all you'd like to paint it up to be, and contrary to your rather disheartening stance towards the other players, there IS a market for XBMC derivatives and other media center products.
Everyone acknowledges that XBMC has done many great things for the HTPC audience, but that doesn't mean XBMC is always the best option.
If you want to talk statistics, get some real data. -
Credibility rating by Zaptor: Oscar 0.1% Andreas 99.99% -
@Zaptor: Go ahead and troll as much as you want -- I'm not biting.
Any XBMC developer would likely agree that there's a lot more than a 0.0000001% difference in the Plex/XBMC codebase, but then again, our friend Andreas is a project leader who says himself he couldn't code to save his life (that's fine btw.).
As a project manager (and thusly a representative of Team-XBMC), he should know how to properly back up his statistics with data and know not to make false statements, no matter how good the project he represents is.
Feel free to inject more irrelevant statements though. -
You go count lines of code yourself if you like to prove yourself wrong or right.
The OP is by the way asking for XBMC support, this request is about XBMC.
So YOU are the one that is trolling! -
No, Andreas, I'm not trolling.
I'm discussing things in a rather civil matter and backing up my statements with facts.
That's not trolling.
Now, you still haven't gotten back to the question of Logitech Harmony support, Plex's "Media Server" functionality or being able to play iTunes DRM files, yet you keep spouting that only (at most) one out of ten million lines of code in the Plex project is unique, despite being called out on it.
That's a rather harsh insult towards the Plex team.
Furthermore, it's completely ridiculous, and here's why:
As of February 2008, the XBMC codebase was just over four million lines of code ( http://www.ohloh.net/p/xbmc/analyses/... ).
While the amount of code has definitely gone up since, it hasn't gone up near enough to even be remotely close to ten million lines of code.
This means that even a single line of code that is unique to Plex shatters your statistics, and I can guarantee that there's way more than one line of code unique to the project.
Now, as I've mentioned several times, XBMC is a great product -- nobody's not talking it down here, remember that!
Me? I've simply been extolling the virtues of single-platform focus (portability is great to have, but user friendliness and platform consistency is extremely important).
I was hoping you (being a project leader and all) would be able to have a civil conversation filled with verifiable facts rather than making them up on the spot.
You being a project leader for XBMC is probably a great thing for the XBMC project -- I mean, the project is still relevant, and that's no mean feat for community software.
With that said, your bias and emotional attachment seem to be clouding your judgement when it comes to comparisons and competition, and that's not a great thing.
I'm not sure what your beef with Plex is, but I guess it could be that both Plex and Boxee have been enjoying the limelight for a while. You should keep in mind that not one of the projects is hiding where its roots come from; they do in fact thank the XBMC and the community for putting in so much effort over the past few years.
In other words, it's rather childish of you to claim that the Plex team can't write a single line of code.
Now, before you reply, re-read what I've said, and note that I've quantified my data.
Calm down a bit and realize that I'm not attacking you, your project, your family or your religion -- there's no need for you to be so evasive and defensive.
If you post facts that you can back up, I'm all ears, and would be happy to continue the conversation -- otherwise, I'll try to let this be my final word. -
Inappropriate?xbmc isnt a thing of the past (maybe for mac) but i still use it for windows and on my xbox and there is a huge community of developers and users it would be great to see a spotify plugin for xbmc
5 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Oscar: Plex is a compilation of plugins and skins ontop of XBMC so dream on.
Of course we want a XBMC plugin!!!
I’m excited
4 people think
this is one of the best points
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Inappropriate?Zaptor: shame on you for not doing your research.
Plex is a fork of XBMC, and it was forked quite some time ago, meaning the codebases are quite different at this stage.
Both codebases are licensed under the GPL, meaning they can freely use whatever code they want from each other, but the two products have two somewhat different goals.
I suggest you have a look at http://wiki.plexapp.com/index.php/FAQ....3F
After that, you might want to have a look at the latest info on Plex 0.7.
When you're done with that, you'll see that Plex is clearly not a skin and a collection of plugins on top of XBMC.
Anyway, to get back on topic..
We don't want a XBMC plugin.
That's way too shortsighted.
What we want is an API to work against, so we (i.e., the community) can write plugins for whatever application we want; be it XBMC, Plex, WinAmp, iTunes, SongBird or any other of a multitude of applications supporting plugins.
Spotify have a smaller interest in getting Spotify integrated into other products than those products' communities do.
I'd rather have someone who knows the ins and outs of the respective products write a plugin than have a Spotify developer try and figure out the 34543 different plugin-enabled products out there.
Luckily, they claim an API is on the way, they just don't want to say when :(
2 people think
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Inappropriate?Fork shmork, i still Want the XBMC plugin, i'm using XBMC on the Xbox as my primary Media center, not my Mac, and that's where the plugin should be.
Adding an API to support only OS based XBMC (and deviates) sounds like a bad idea, even worse for a marginalized product like Plex.
1 person thinks
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Inappropriate?Then you've obviously misunderstood the entire thing :P
The API would be cross-platform (not OS specific, if done correctly), meaning Linux developers, Mac developers and Windows developers would be able to write plugins in their language of choice (i.e., Python for XBMC based products, Obj-C for people who want to integrate it more thoroughly with OS X, Perl for the people who want to hack together a quick and dirty scrobbler etc.)
For old Xboxes, XBMC is definitely the superior option.
For Linux, it's probably still MythTV, but could be XBMC depending on the features people need.
For Mac, it's currently Plex, and for Windows users the best bet would be to buy a proper media center solution ;-)
I'd rather have a team of five Spotify developers focus on getting a cross-platform API right than have them write a plugin for XBMC (xbox), XBMC (linux), Plex, WinAmp, iTunes, Windows MediaPlayer, Songbird, last.fm, TrendyNewApplication etc.
In other words, it's not so much that we (and yes, I'm being presumptuous and saying "we", but there's quite a few topics here agreeing with me) don't want plugins (of course we do!) -- we just want to write them ourselves, for the products we use, as quickly as possible.
I can more or less guarantee that the same day there's a fully functional API available, you'll be able to use alpha/beta plugins for XBMC and its derivatives.
2 people think
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Inappropriate?@ Oscar, so essentially you are saying that the Old Xbox will never be able to run Spotify since it doesn't have any support for API only HTTP API?
Does this mean that u will have to have a PC/Mac with Spotify running on it 24/7 for the Xbox to make a connection?
"we"... the proverbial I ;-) -
The Xbox itself will "never" be able to run Spotify itself, this much is true.
Getting any software compiled for the Xbox involves using the Xbox SDK (i.e., the set of tools and libraries used to develop for the Xbox itself).
The Xbox has reached its "End Of Life" status, meaning it's no longer getting assembled, and most likely no new titles published for it, so Spotify wouldn't be able to legally build a "native" application for it.
On the other hand, the Xbox is perfectly capable (though illegally) to run Linux, on which you'd be able to get Spotify running -- but then you wouldn't be running XBMC, as the console is only able to run one native program at a time (linux is for all intents and purposes considered to be one native program here, as it's mainly the bootloader that starts as an Xbox binary).
When you have a computer runing Spotify though, writing a python script acting as a XBMC plugin towards Spotify, you'll be able to control Spotify from within XBMC -- possibly (though improbable) to the point of having the Xbox actually handle the audio content.
The reason I say improbable is that some clever person would just decide that any 30 second tracks are ads and remove them ;)
In other words, while the Xbox with XBMC was awesome as a mediacenter "back in the day", it's just not versatile enough to be considered a proper HTPC today.
Of course, since XBMC has been ported to Linux and the Xbox Linux distributions should have pretty decent drivers now, you could jump through hoops and install Linux on the XBOX, XBMC and WINE in Linux and run Spotify through WINE.
That, however, is a shaky proposition at best, but theoretically possible (hence the "never" above -- if there's a will, there's a way; but it won't be pretty).
It would still require the cross-platform API (or different native platform APIs) to actually integrate it into XBMC running in Linux on the XBOX.
I'd sooner recommend someone buying an AppleTV or a Mac Mini (depending on whether or not you want to play HDTV content) to run XBMC or Plex with Spotify.
Sure, it costs a bit of money, but on the other hand you get a fairly competent and integrated platform, rather than trying to glue something together on a seven year old unsupported platform.
Sad, but true :(
You've inspired me to dig up my old Xbox though so I can play some Fable and Jade Empire :P -
Inappropriate?"In other words, while the Xbox with XBMC was awesome as a mediacenter "back in the day", it's just not versatile enough to be considered a proper HTPC today."
I haven't played games on my Xbox(es) for years, it's only used as a Media Center and is by far a superior solution to the OS based XBMC's.
Sounds like you never used your Xbox with XBMC so you are missing out on some major advantages.
Startup time - Approx. 5sec
Gui speed - faster than ATV
Codecs - All built in
PCM passthrough - Digital sound untouched=CD quality with lossless formats
Network shares - All works "out of the box"
Mplayer - Superior to FFDSHOW
Winamp Vis - Only on Xbox
HardwareUpsampling - SD to HD looks pretty good
About HD, The Xbox has a 700MHz CPU so that won't work ofc, but then again, ATV can't handle Matroska so i don't see any reason to buying one, the XBMC interface is also slow as hell on ATV @ 720p. The Mac mini doesn't have component out so thats a No Deal for me.
And why would Spotify be compiled with XDK? I'm sure someone can make script for it, just like the Youtube or Shoutcast plugins etc. for Xbox. -
Yes, I've run XBMC on my Xbox.
I have a 160GB disk in mine, wherever it is.
I used it for media and for launching games, used it as a web server on occasion.
I miss out on absolutely no advantages.
On the contrary, an OS based solution is better for many reasons; especially Mac based solutions.
My Mac Mini makes *no* audible noise, even when playing back 1080p x.264 content over the network (also, it wakes up from sleep in less than three seconds). Network shares work even better on the Mac because of something called "Bonjour" (Later known as ZeroConf).
I don't care about ffdshow, as I run a Mac (and this should be glaringly obvious by now).
Again, Plex is a fork of XBMC, so anything you can list as a pro, I can too.
I also have the pros of being able to run a browser, IM applications, read my email, play HD content and what not.
All in the space of a box slightly taller than five stacked CD cases, normally drawing less power (and at worst, the same amount) compared to an Xbox running XBMC.
The thing the Xbox really had going for it was the low cost (yes, the Mac Mini costs more than an Xbox did, but it's a worthy tradeoff).
The reason I mentioned the ATV was specifically for SD content, whereas the Mini is more suited for those who want to play HD content.
It *can* handle Matroska just fine, just not with in the default Apple configuration.
If the community could gain access to the h.264 accelerator chip, it would be able to handle at least 720p MKV at high bitrates without a problem.
The Mini has optical out and DVI out (i.e., HDMI without audio), so it handles *my* needs just fine (and yes, that means digital audio and graphics).
As for why Spotify would be compiled against MS' "XDK", it's simple.
Spotify will never (note that there are no quotes around the word this time) give out the encryption key for the files it caches (in other words, you won't be able to write a third-party Spotify player -- you could at most write an interface for it, but a proper version of Spotify needs to reside somewhere).
You're simply not going to be able to query the Spotify P2P network, grab the songs you want and store them unencrypted on disk. -
Oscar you have convinced me even more to buy a Mac Mini. And I will certainly try out the Plex alternative. I guess it's time to let the kids inherit the xbox :-). -
This comment was removed on 12/03/08.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?Laminat: you won't regret it.
The really cool thing is that I have one of the older ones (from when the Intel Mac Mini was unveiled): 1.66GHz, 1GB ram - and it handles even 1080p beautifully.
The base model at 599 USD/5000 SEK is higher specced than mine, so should take it even better.
I'm actually going to try and find some really high-bitrate clips tomorrow (15 - 30Mbps) and see how it handles them (but it had no problems at all with "The Eye" at 10Mbps.
There is one thing to keep in mind though.
The Mini hasn't been updated for almost 500 days.
Current rumors indicate it's either being dropped or seeing big changes late January (MacWorld San Francisco).
If it gets upgraded, it'll probably get a better GPU (being able to offload x.264 decoding to the graphics card), 2GB of ram, possibly getting rid of the DVI port in favor of a Mini DisplayPort and removing FireWire (just like the new MacBooks).
On the upside, if that happens, old units will be available for cheap -- so it's all about weighing the old capabilities against the new ones.
I'm all for making informed decisions, so if you can, you should wait until MacWorld and see what happens :-)
2 people think
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One question Oscar - is it possible to share a common storage between a Mac Mini and a PC? What I understand OS X does not support NTFS formatted discs?
Is a NAS based solution the only affordable alternative to share media files in a OS mixed network? Or do you have any other recommendations? Would be really interesting to hear your opinion regarding the subject. -
Laminat: Leopard is able to read NTFS, but not write to it without third party software.
In a network environment, you could simply use Windows Filesharing to enable read/write access without any third party software, but you'd need a machine running that has all the media on it.
Windows Filesharing (SMB) is filesystem transparent -- meaning the "host" operating system knows about what the format of the disk is, but the clients accessing it don't have to have the slightest clue about NTFS.
In my opinion, the best way to handle the mixed-network approach is simply to use Windows filesharing. NAS devices use it, both Windows and OS X can use it and it's already built in.
My personal setup is a computer with a few external harddrives plugged into it, sharing them with Windows Filesharing.
The disks are formatted HFS+ (Apple's default filesystem), but since they're shared with SMB (among other things), windows machines can access them just fine (and like I said, the reverse holds true just as well. NTFS formatted disks are no problem, so long as the host computer or NAS device understands NTFS.
A quick heads up re: Mac Mini.
It wasn't updated at the MacWorld conference yesterday, and all the rumor sites are confused as to why it wasn't updated.
Most people seem to agree that the timeframe for an updated Mac Mini is now "before the end of January".
Apple were a bit short on time during the keynote, and I'm guessing the update to the Mini is significant enough that they want to hold a small event for it.
Personally, I've got my credit card ready for when it's released, along with iLife 09 which is just looking sweeter than ever. -
Thanks a lot for you detailed explanation.
I'm currently helping my father in investing a suitable mediacenter solution so I will recommend a used Mac Mini in combination with an external disc ( should be good enough). I'll use MacDrive to access the external disc from Windows (that would eliminate the need of setting up a WLAN at his place). -
1 person thinks
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Inappropriate?How about the Popcorn Hour A-100
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Popcorn hour does not run a supported OS, so at best you could use it as a remote for Spotify running elsewhere. -
OK. Does anyone know how to accomplish this? -
You have to wait for the API to be released, and for someone to write software for the popcorn hour (a "User App" in popcorn hour language).
This can take anywhere from an hour to never, depending on how many developers are interested in seeing PCH control Spotify.
For Plex (and thus by more or less all XBMC forks), it will be more or less the first week/days after an API release, but it's all up to the respective comunities. -
Inappropriate?Does anyone know if Spotify works on the Sonos music system?
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Inappropriate?Oscar! you should really learn to listen to other people rather than stating your flawed perception of how you think things should be, but are not.
So thanks Andreas Setterlind for stating the facts (again) and keep up the great work no matter what some people think. -
Zaptor: He's not stating any facts.
He's making things up, when he knows full and well that the Plex team writes some code of their own and changes more than 1/10000000 lines of code.
I'm always willing to listen to people, but not when they make up bullshit facts. -
Inappropriate?An old laptop will do the trick. just connect your music machinery to the phones output. It works fine in our livingroom.....
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This is the way i run Spotify today but my living room is to crammed to house another appliance so I still want my Media Center of preference (XBMC) to run Spotify, besides controlling it with a remote control is preferred. -
This reply was removed on 01/21/09.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?This is good idea. Although, wouldn't a linux client be pre-requisite for this to be possible? I assume a native client is needed, and linux right now means running spotify in wine. Not very nice using an API that way., I can imagine.
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1 person thinks
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Inappropriate?I love my xbmc and think this is a superb idea.
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Inappropriate?Bring us some Spotify support for XBMC/Plex (and other platforms) please!
I’m thrilled
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Inappropriate?Totaly love this Idea!! Spotify and XBMC, the best of 2 worlds!
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Inappropriate?If this were implemented I think it would guarantee a "premium" subscription from me.
I’m excited
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Inappropriate?has everyone forgoten the cheaper alternative of a Nvidia Ion box or an Atom box. the Ion will run HD video Fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv1Q_D...
Ah the joys of posting in the future..... -
Inappropriate?Spotify support is now available inside Plex, we're released a beta plug-in to the Plex App Store. A premium subscription is required.
1 person thinks
this is one of the best points
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