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Accommodating Stumblers with Disabilities
Certain aspects of the new interface are not "disability friendly" -- for example, the fonts and avatars are smaller so are difficult to see, some of the drop downs and the many checkboxes are difficult for people with tremors or arthritis. Shut-ins are more likely to be power users on SU so an investment in their experience is worth the time. Not to mention, just being right.
Some things can be scripted by the extensibility devs, and will be, but some things cannot.
I know it won't happen in this release, but I would like to see SU look at usability from the point of persons with disabilities. Isn't the average SU user in their 40s? Their eyesight should begin to fail any time now.
It could be implemented as a free set of features, much like sponsor features are now.
I bet I could get a grant for this. No, that is not an offer to write it.
Some things can be scripted by the extensibility devs, and will be, but some things cannot.
I know it won't happen in this release, but I would like to see SU look at usability from the point of persons with disabilities. Isn't the average SU user in their 40s? Their eyesight should begin to fail any time now.
It could be implemented as a free set of features, much like sponsor features are now.
I bet I could get a grant for this. No, that is not an offer to write it.
I’m hoping this won't get tabled.
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I'm glad Xineann revived this thread. This was one of the earlier suggestions on getsatisfaction and this idea generated a lot of support and useful comments. Many people who were not aware of this suggestion are now aware and are able to contribute more suggestions.
Now that V4 is standard, it would be a good idea to acknowledge that usability for disadvantaged stumblers will be considered in future enhancements. Some of the most active contributors to the community have expressed support for this and I'm sure they would like to hear some initial thoughts on this idea on how to make stumbleupon more relevant to people with disabilities.
I’m (Merry Xmas!)
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I agree. SU should provide extra consideration for their disabled users.
The send all button should be provided for Betsy since she does have a tremor, and she needs this. Please show a little compassion.
I’m hopeful
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Agreed here too, of course. Though I like the new interface a lot, I havent been able to figure out yet why this release is so click friendly. Not only the fonts and the avatars are small but also:
- Why so many more clicks are necessary in Recent Activity page? Why not an optional grid view? If we stay gone for hours or maybe days, the amount of clicks necessary to catch up is unbelievably discouraging. I wonder what can be the difficulty of implementing optional grid view on that page, just like it is already implemented in all other pages?
- Whatever happened to blog pagination? We now cant see if the blog we're visiting is a 6 or 600 pages blog, making it difficult to plan our visit vs other stumbling activities, such as posting and such. We need to calculate how many posts on a page and guess how many pages the blog might have and try to find the beginning of the blog through trial and error through the address bar.
- The fonts / avatar thing is a joke in my opinion. It is difficult not only for the older stumblers and those with disabilities, but also for those of us who spend many hours online or come back from work or school tired and so on. Very poor choice of font size indeed.
All about being inclusive is wonderful, of course, and I totally support that.
I’m happy always. Quit asking.
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I would like to see these issues addressed to make SU user friendly for all users.
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This is an important suggestion and I want to add my encouragement to it. I'd also like to point out that many times, especially with genuinely creative design, the accommodation for "disability" actually enhances the experience of all. Classic example: curb cuts on sidewalks. These were designed and implemented to support folks who use wheelchairs, but the design improvement benefited just as well folks pushing strollers, or shopping carts, or handtrucks, or even more mundane matters like skateboards. All to the good of everyone but originating in support of fellow citizens with a disability.
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Thank you Annie. Hopefully they will add the ALL button back to mass shares. It isn't used for spamming and they could make it a sponsor benefit.
I’m thankful
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Agreed, I'm in a universal design class right now and I think it'd be impressive if StumbleUpon could become the first inclusive social bookmarking website since we share so many links. They could even get hints from this site that does so already: http://www.handisam.se/Tpl/StartPage_...
I’m happy you posted this!
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Inappropriate?Agreed, I'm in a universal design class right now and I think it'd be impressive if StumbleUpon could become the first inclusive social bookmarking website since we share so many links. They could even get hints from this site that does so already: http://www.handisam.se/Tpl/StartPage_...
I’m happy you posted this!
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Inappropriate?Thank you Annie. Hopefully they will add the ALL button back to mass shares. It isn't used for spamming and they could make it a sponsor benefit.
I’m thankful
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If the "all" comes back I insist, yes I insist it is a sponsor benefit. Not that my insisting ever gets me anywhere but still. That is a fantastic idea and I'll call it the #1 way to keep spammers from hitting the all button! -
I'm sorry, but we must differ on this. There has to be a proportionality of effort, so that quality is not lost. The focus on SU is on what you receive, rather than what you send, and although it won't be marketting material, the dilution of judgement involved in a 'send to all' just has to lower the quality to the average recipient.
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Inappropriate?This is a fantastic idea. We should all do as much as we possibly can to help those with disabilities of all types. We do so little and the little we've accomplished as a nation and a world and a StumbleWorld seems to be being chipped away at rather than strengthened. Go for it! I will do anything I can to help.
Quizzler
I’m thankful and hopeful
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Inappropriate?This is an important suggestion and I want to add my encouragement to it. I'd also like to point out that many times, especially with genuinely creative design, the accommodation for "disability" actually enhances the experience of all. Classic example: curb cuts on sidewalks. These were designed and implemented to support folks who use wheelchairs, but the design improvement benefited just as well folks pushing strollers, or shopping carts, or handtrucks, or even more mundane matters like skateboards. All to the good of everyone but originating in support of fellow citizens with a disability.
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Inappropriate?I am like you that I need sponsorship.
I have a master's cart. -
Inappropriate?I'd like to add my voice to those supporting a design that keeps SU users with disabilities in mind
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Inappropriate?I would like to see these issues addressed to make SU user friendly for all users.
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Inappropriate?Agreed here too, of course. Though I like the new interface a lot, I havent been able to figure out yet why this release is so click friendly. Not only the fonts and the avatars are small but also:
- Why so many more clicks are necessary in Recent Activity page? Why not an optional grid view? If we stay gone for hours or maybe days, the amount of clicks necessary to catch up is unbelievably discouraging. I wonder what can be the difficulty of implementing optional grid view on that page, just like it is already implemented in all other pages?
- Whatever happened to blog pagination? We now cant see if the blog we're visiting is a 6 or 600 pages blog, making it difficult to plan our visit vs other stumbling activities, such as posting and such. We need to calculate how many posts on a page and guess how many pages the blog might have and try to find the beginning of the blog through trial and error through the address bar.
- The fonts / avatar thing is a joke in my opinion. It is difficult not only for the older stumblers and those with disabilities, but also for those of us who spend many hours online or come back from work or school tired and so on. Very poor choice of font size indeed.
All about being inclusive is wonderful, of course, and I totally support that.
I’m happy always. Quit asking.
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This reply was removed on 10/21/09.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?Thank You XineAnn~~~
I strongly AGREE!!!!!!
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Inappropriate?as usual things are made for the normals with total lack of concern for those of us that aren't, due to genetics that we could not control. so lets bring it to the attention of the "normals" that they are just one dna strand away from being like me or someone else. come-on people put your thinking caps back on, get out of your cubicle and try to help us out.
thanks
I’m irratated
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Inappropriate?I certainly agree-- I have problems with hand -eye coordination, and find the new interface so difficult and far from user friendly---- Maybe for much younger eyes and fingers-- I am getting discouraged------
I’m frustrated
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Inappropriate?I have to agree with these suggestions, also
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Inappropriate?I do agree with all that has been written on this topic so far. There are many stumblers with mild to severe physical difficulties that have not complained much about the current version due to it's ease of use and functionality. V4 however leaves many of these out. With so many of us maintaining a personal blog here at SU, not just stumbling and reviewing sites, we feel we're entitled to the functions we need for ease of use. I feel they should be made available to all, not just Sponsers, of which I have been one for 4 years.
Thank you....
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?I agree , I've always had trouble with the fonts on SU , they seem to be worse now , or my eyes are worse , or both. :)
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Inappropriate?I agree
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Inappropriate?Wholeheartedly agree with XineAnn and the others who support this idea.
The devs must take this into consideration and rework things.
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This reply was removed on 01/27/10.
see the change log -
This reply was removed on 01/27/10.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?i've got to totally agree..the disabled must always be considered when developing new ideas~
I’m hoopeful
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Inappropriate?I agree. SU should provide extra consideration for their disabled users.
The send all button should be provided for Betsy since she does have a tremor, and she needs this. Please show a little compassion.
I’m hopeful
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Inappropriate?I support XineAnn's idea.
After providing several cogent comments, she caps it off by saying, “Not to mention, just being right.”
Of course it is only common sense to allow everyone to use to use all the features with equal ease.
It's only right.
I’m hopeful
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Inappropriate?Definitely agree -
Inappropriate?It is important that noone is discrimated in the new SU, really it would it be such a big deal to make people images a little bigger as soon people are not blessed with perfect vision. Please take this into consideration.
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Inappropriate?Needs to be fixed. Rhe key is always the ability to override - so presumably a scalable font /avatar dedicated style sheet could be added that had special tweeks.
[I mean I'm assuming a style sheet is used in formatting]
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Inappropriate?I agree. Everyone should be considered here. Otherwise what is SU' purpose?
I’m anxious
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Inappropriate?I agree. Everyone should be considered here.Equalty must be the keyword in this.
So i support XineAnn's idea. and the send all button should be provided for Betsy and others .SU designers should look into this .
Great idea
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?Xineann, you are a prudent person ... and, as far as I know you, concerned about human matter. I think it's a great idea to bring up that important topic ...
As a trained remedial teacher and artist I was working with people in need of special care (I do not like the word "disabled" at all ... as if you look closer, our whole Western un-civilazation is more or less heavyily autistic ...).
cit.: "Often enough, when we think of those whom we would call disabled, we are confronted by individualities whose intensity of life, willpower and social sense may greatly astonish us. They show us that the human being is not his body, but has a body which he has to deal with and which he can to a greater or lesser extent make his own. We may compare it to some extent to a musician and the instrument he plays. The circumstances surrounding our lives are therefore not a passive absolute that we have to take as given, but appear rather as the point of departure for the biographical tasks we have been challenged to face."
All mass media do not respect the human nature ... being blinded, I hope you know by what, they do not know the true human being (and seem to not want to know it), so, how could one expect SU's V4 being more sociable ... as the operators talk us into believing their "beliefs" ... cit.: "We have completely updated the interface, geared to be more simple, searchable and social." ... this is purest cynicism ... "searchable" means just only more traffic for them ...
If SU would be a real social platform it would go for the individual need much more than for the need of the company. Ok, they are providing us the platform (and I'm very thankful for it) but don't they imply on us how we should behave ...?!!!
It wouldn't be a great deal to make SU more user friendly - for the individual human being ... thank you Xineann for bringing this up!
p.s.: ... actually, it's a call to wake up - Good Morning!
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Inappropriate?Xineann has presented a valid point, I trust that it will be strongly considered as well as implemented.
I’m well above 40 yrs old
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Inappropriate?This is an excellent suggestion. This really boils down to usability in general, but the problem for those with disabilities is magnified.
I agree with this.
I’m hopeful too
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Inappropriate?On specifics, I'm still open-minded about the 'send-to-all' function. We don't know why it was withdrawn. If it was because of widespread abuse by spammers (nobody here) thats one thing. If it wasn't, thats another. I'd need to know why it had been withdrawn before I decided if it was a good idea to re-introduce it. If it were to be re-introduced I'd personally like to see any 'shares to all' clearly marked as such and/or an opt out for those who didn't want them.
But generally I think the case for making Su as accomodating as possible for people with disabilities is unarguable. They couldn't possibly cover every circumstance or person but they could move further in that direction. Once V4 is implemented and relatively bug free, looking at being more 'disability-friendly' would be be an excellent thing to do and maybe this thread could be a good place to flag up some practical ideas for that time ?
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Inappropriate?Any idea that well help people with disabilities has got to be good! -
Inappropriate?Even though you feel the problem won't be corrected with this release it should. Considerations as well as equal facilities for people with disabilities should always come first, be it through transportation, dining options, etc or the internet. Perhaps an internet attorney will know if the Americans With Disabilities Act is in violation.
Stumbleupon should stop in their tracks, put everything on hold and make sure the site is either compliant or becomes compliant BEFORE the new release. What's the big hurry - why not do the right thing the first time?
HarriettsPlace -
This reply was removed on 10/22/09.
see the change log -
Inappropriate?We are both disabled abd can not find some one to help us. I was med-retired USMC, and now both or SSDI. ANY IDEA?
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Inappropriate?I'm just old :)
...anything to make SU easier to navigate would benefit all of us with aging eyes, poor hand-eye coordination and the like. My feelings and thoughts have already been posted by those before me; so just count me in as agreeing :)
And...NO WHITE BACKGROUNDS for my INBOX or other pages!! That hurts my eyes.
♫Cat♫
aka JadeMarie
I’m ok! You're ok!
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If you're using Firefox, you can change the colors of any website you want using a simple extension called Stylish available from https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fire.... :)
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Inappropriate?My computer has an ease of access center that helps the computer easier to see (high contrast color scheme), not mention a narrator option that reads aloud text. More of this technology is available on countless sites, Microsoft and my favorite Expressivo (available in some different languages) has wonderful software. People with disabilities need to find assistance through existing technologies for help. Things are not likely to improve with age. I am way past forty and learned to take matters at hand and find help. The responsibility is yours, because waiting for a rescue could prove futile.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?
You would think that SU would want to be as user friendly as possible for all users. With a lot of the users being older, that small fonts and avatars would be harder for them to see especially with the higher resolution monitors. Also the smaller fonts and avatars would make it very hard to be able to click on for persons with tremors or arthritis. Maybe SU will understand the problem and try to resolve it. Making things smaller and more compact is not always better, same as bigger is not always better... I will have to agree some what with Len that we at times need to take matters into our own hands and responsibility is ours to some extent which is the reason I think that this post is here, someone is trying take matters in hand for others and not just for themselves.
If you are wanting to get people to use your product it makes sense to listen to people that will use it and try and keep the ones you have. Plus there is a movement going on now to get people to interact with one another face to face and get out and see the world without using the computer. Not sure if that will work with the new generation but I kinda hope it does. So it could be a good thing to make it to where we oldsters and people with disabilities can use it a little easier...... :- )
I’m excited
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Inappropriate?I would like this consideration. I have M.S. and there are times this would help! -
Inappropriate?Any sign of life from SU on this? Even a "we read it"? -
Inappropriate?We read everything posted here, XineAnn, as you know, but don't necessarily respond to each and every post.
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Inappropriate?I'm glad Xineann revived this thread. This was one of the earlier suggestions on getsatisfaction and this idea generated a lot of support and useful comments. Many people who were not aware of this suggestion are now aware and are able to contribute more suggestions.
Now that V4 is standard, it would be a good idea to acknowledge that usability for disadvantaged stumblers will be considered in future enhancements. Some of the most active contributors to the community have expressed support for this and I'm sure they would like to hear some initial thoughts on this idea on how to make stumbleupon more relevant to people with disabilities.
I’m (Merry Xmas!)
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Inappropriate?100% Ok.
We've made the request for a better visibility many times.
Is SU not concerned by this?
I’m sad
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Inappropriate?Web browsers already do a pretty good job of making websites accessible to folks with disabilities. I don't know about the other browsers, but Firefox will let you zoom the entire page making text and graphics bigger or if you want, you can just zoom the text, . Also, I believe that the narrator built into Windows is compatible with Firefox so anything on your screen can be read to you. :) -
Inappropriate?Oh come on. Which new SU developer are you? Please read the messages before you come in here with apologetics on how the browsers handle it already.
Visual difficulty is not the problem as defined. You really are going to have to read the thread.
This was a thread started after people posted on their pages and in the forums (fora) that they were having problems. Not just visual problems, but problems with number of clicks and other such. It's not a manufactured problem.
And you just sail in here and say there's no problem and the browsers handle it.
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Geeknik never said "there is no problem", he only provided an alternative solution. I zoom in my browser windows all the time, because most websites tend to have small fonts (including Gmail) and even eye doctors or office ergonomics websites recommend zooming in webpages.
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I don't work for StumbleUpon nor do I do any kind of development for StumbleUpon, which is obvious since I don't see a "staff" tag or graphic in or around my profile. But thanks for asking.
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For an alternative solution to be proposed, the problem must be identified. The problem as identified (and I request that Monica read the thread as well) include manual dexterity problem and includes a wide circle of issues beyond visual. Monica, your personal dislikes are showing.
I guess I won't be getting a T-shirt next year either. Oh well. -
Inappropriate?StumbleUpon.com is not a public entity, so they are NOT required under the ADA to provide any of these things to their users. However, by being good Internet citizens, they can apply the following to their site:
• Provide alternative text for any graphics on your site.
• Provide alternative text for any multimedia content.
• Any information conveyed by color must have a text explanation.
• Pages should be readable without style sheets.
• Provide text links for any image maps.
• Make tables accessible by labeling them clearly.
• Avoid using frames.
• Eliminate flickering or flashing graphics.
• Provide a text-only parallel website.
• Eliminate pop-up windows, rollovers, etc.
• If your site requires a plug-in, provide a link to access the software.
• Make forms accessible by using a simple design format.
• Include a “skip navigation” link for sites that use a standard toolbar of links.
• Allow users plenty of time to navigate your site.
These were taken from the Library website guidelines posted on http://ada.gov/ and should be a good starting point for StumbleUpon to make their site more user friendly. :)
I’m amused
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No.
SU being "not a public entity" SU needs to take no account of internet citizenry but SU being an organisation that invites Membership it needs to take account of its Members specific needs.
Not one of geeknik's list items address the issue of this thread. -
Inappropriate?No, they are not required. Hence, "a feature request". That means I'm requesting an enhancement. Other people who liked the idea of this enhancement are also requesting enhancements.
Perhaps your neatly bulleted lecture could find a more appropriate home in another venue, one that addresses what does and does not comprise usability and where you can find a more fitting soapbox to indoctrinate a more captive audience.
Or you can continue to hi-jack this thread for your tangential manifesto.
It's unlikely to affect SU's behavior either way. -
This reply was removed on 01/22/10.
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Inappropriate?No decision has been made regarding this feature request, therefore all the brainstorming is welcome - as long as it's done with respect to other members. This is my second and last reminder.
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Inappropriate?How nice to see a reply from Community support.
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Even if it was negative.
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Inappropriate?The font is much too small for my eyes to see. This isn't a solution but I use a Firefox extension called No Squint. You can set font size globally and for individual sites. My SU page is set at 140% and most of the rest of the net is at 120%. I think that gives an indication of just how small the font is.
I know I've commented on the font size in another GS thread. So I would say that it hasn't been deemed worthy of consideration.
I’m tired of complaining
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Inappropriate?Ya know... I have fantastic vision, I normally sit with my face about 3 feet from my monitor and I can still read font on size 1 but I will admit I have noticed a bit of eye strain lately at my pc and since I spend at least 70% of my online time playing on SU I have to attribute it to that. Like I said, my sight is great so I have no personal interest in this matter but I thought I'd toss my opinion in here anyway.
The click, click, click, click, click to accomplish a simple task is *#@&ing annoying though and I *know* it srsly hinders a couple of my close friends who have limited dexterity.
I don't think this is a matter of SU being "raciest" as suggested above, here is what I think happened. They implemented several changes in an effort to improve things and in many ways succeeded but some things were overlooked or simply were not realized at implementation, fixing these things is a lot of work and I doubt they want to go to the trouble.
If there is one thing I have learned with this latest upgrade to SU it is that when we speak in numbers they listen. If you truly care about this issue you need to get active about it, you must send this thread to all the people you know who have this problem, you must talk about it and you must create a buzz. Unless you speak out SU cannot hear you and if they don't hear the unified voice of us speaking as one they will not consider this important enough to change.
90 people like this idea, but how many people even know about this GS thread? Spread the word if you want to see change.
List specific things you are having trouble with etc.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?@Serina
Some things are so important that they transcend numbers and management by metrics. They're important because they show our values. That's why the whole world is helping that pesky low-GNP Haiti. There's no return on investment, no metrics, and they don't produce much. There aren't that many of them and they're certainly not rich. But given an earthquake where we live, it could just as easily be us.
Any of us could wake up with a condition that makes SU difficult to use.
I started this thread three months ago. There's been a "we read it" from CH, "second and final" reprimands from Monica, and at best a cavalier attitude toward the entire subject from SU who are policing the exchange here but not addressing the topic itself. As if playing "nice-nice" is the highest good and the topic of this thread is secondary. Well, I guess that just might be the case.
Maybe that's harsh and they do take the subject seriously and just aren't talking (as in "To the Developers, Need Dialog") but after *months*, there's no indication that this issue matters. No money in it? Not even an acknowledgment that "We hear you and we're going to address this in an upcoming release".
You can't use metrics with disabilities because people don't self-report honestly. There's a stigma attached, as unfair as that it. "Oh you have special needs, we'll get to you when we can..."
It should not be necessary to organize a numbers campaign and then gush appreciatively when a fix is made and it especially shouldn't be necessary on *this* topic.
The topic should be:
1. Acknowledged as important by SU
2. An assurance made that the usability issues will be addressed with an eye to making the service more friendly to users with disabilities
3. Is much more than just about visual impairment
4. A policy statement that stumblers who need help are important and not disposable because they require "upkeep" and there is no return on investment or popularity advantage in improving their experience
But if numbers count, I can do a web-wide campaign to link Stumbleupon to the search phrase "friendly to users with disabilities" in the context of "companies that are not friendly to users with disabilities". Would that work? I'll make the time for it, if that what's needed. I bet I can place it in the top 10 on Google within 6 weeks.
P.S. I 100% agree with you that we should focus on the specifics. We should not expect the developers to be mindreaders (although there are usability studies and industry standards -- see one of the early posts for the link). Much of this thread has focused on "why we should" accommodate stumblers with disabilities and it needs more "things we should address" to accommodate stumblers with disabilities.
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I see your point of view (honestly I do) but there is a difference between "how it should be" and "what actually gets results", I outlined what I have personally seen work in the past.
SU HAS changed a few things, slowly but they ARE. For instance you can view your recent shares from your inbox again (that saves several clicks).
Unless this thread gets a great deal more support I don't think you should hope for anything more than the moderation of user exchange. You are right, many disabled users don't/won't self report, but they are FAR more likely to do so if this msg finds them than if it never does.
The whole reason SU seems to be leaning toward GS is because to them, numbers DO count. -
@xineann: We do what we can. Believe it or not, we've had usability enhancement tickets for avatar size and font size since V4 was in Beta. I cannot escalate a ticket every day, but I will try again this week and see if I get any updates.
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WOW I didn't know we could get to our recent shares via the Inbox. Thanx Serina. Good Druid
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@Serina We have had a different experience. I do not think SU is driven by numbers in terms of user requests. One example is the photoblogging thread and so many people are following that. Another is the new long url, rather than the old xineann. stumbleupon. com format -- that's because in marketing terms, it benefits SU rankings on its various topics to have all rankings go to their home domain: www. stumbleupon. com rather than to its user subdomains. Even though it is more difficult to remember. This tells you, if a look at top stumblers does not, of the value SU places on in-links and ranking. But SU is a young company, there are strong personalities and a lot of internal politics are evident even from without, a lot of change of direction and stress. Hence, those who are "dev close" flout it and others pretend relationships they don't have. But ultimately, I think the power to change or influence SU comes from without.
@Monica: Thank you. I do believe you do what you can and I know that you and CH do not call the shots on development priorities. I also know that SU is a business and can't give away developer resources. But this is important enough of an issue (not just to me) that just a "commitment" to move in that direction would dial the passion back some. It's difficult when everything is an emergency to set priorities that target a minority of users, even if all users will benefit.
It's more than avatar size and font size, though. The dropdowns are difficult for people with arthritis, accomplishing tasks takes more clicks and often clicks on the other side of the screen. -
Inappropriate?My problem is with the font size. I can't believe this makes SU more Socialand friendly. KUDOS to you two for your persistence. I will be forwarding this to everyone I know. It used to be easy, but now I have to click my 200 subscribers one at a time but I will.:)
I’m frustrated
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To Everyone I sent this to -send it to everyone you know :)
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Inappropriate?Rather than having one thread encompassing a variety of different potential changes and issues, it might be helpful to start a separate thread for each specific change that would help those with disabilities. That would make it possible to track specific requests and see what is being implemented.
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I love that idea but 50bucks says any new threads get merged into this one. If I am wrong on that though, I'd love for staff to come say so.
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Inappropriate?@Xineann, Numbers have made all the difference in the threads I have followed closely, like the tag cloud. That was going to stay a drop down until massive amounts of people said they wanted the cloud back. Several other threads for bugs and feature requests were also implemented as a direct result of strong user numbers backing up the needs and wants.
Monica has already stated some of these things have been ticketed I wouldn't expect them to get done any quicker than they already will but they could be "pushed up the list" by users supporting them. Of course large support on some of the threads is pointless such as the "I hate the new interface bring back v3" and other threads that as you stated SU has its own reasons for not accommodating.
This issue has hope however because it has been acknowledged and ticketed. If you care about this topic as much as you seem to I don't know why you are so against my effort to encourage people to "spread the word". Its not like the msg getting out is going to hurt the cause.
Who exactly is dev close anyway? I hate that term. I've spoken to devs, engineers and support, several times but that doesn't make me "dev close", you talk to them too, what does that mean? What defines "dev close" anyway. That term irritates me, it implies people have sway with "them" and that just isn't the case. From time to time I offer feedback but my suggestions don't carry extra weight, do yours? The very term implies they do and *shrug* it just sort of offends me, I don't know why you say it, I can't count all the times you have been accused of being "dev close", why you would cast that same stone outward baffles me.
This topic is an important one, one I would like to see get some support, I note 11 more people have liked this idea since I quoted it at 90 earlier today. That matters (at least from *my* humble point of view).
Like you, I push this issue, not for myself but for the friends I have with disabilities who have voiced their concern to me about all the clicking and all the hard to see things.
We can both support this matter in our own way, okay? ♥
I’m confident.
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1. Re. persuasion by numbers. I am opposed to a numbers campaign for the reasons I've stated before: It doesn't work, and it isn't a populist issue. It's a matter of what is right. This is a qualitative issue. Like Captain Picard says, "I refuse to allow numbers to determine such decisions."
2. Re: Issue already ticketed. The issue *hasn't* been ticketed, only aspects of it and not even every aspect of it mentioned here. Monica says "we've had usability enhancement tickets for avatar size and font size ". Okay, so far so good. But those two do not define the issue. There are significantly more clicks now to accomplish tasks, and wider mouse movements. The dropdowns require more than a little eye-hand coordination. Even I wind up "missing" and assigning incorrect tags sometimes.
I'm happy to have font size and avatar size addressed, but the long-term solution requires a usability study, more understanding of the difficulties that some people face (and have faced, since there were some problems before v4 was rolled out).
3. Re: Hope. Hope springs eternal. I have not seen anything encouraging in this thread that would indicate that SU management takes this issue seriously. The most encouraging thing I've seen is that Monica appears to take the issue seriously enough to bring up two aspects of it for which there are already tickets. She did not say that the overall issue of making SU user-friendly for people with disabilities had even been discussed. It is a bug-report-fix-or-not methodology and this is not a bug. This is a "situation" that requires a bigger "fix".
3. Re: "Dev Close". I first heard that term from you. I didn't accuse you of it and I certainly don't listen to gossip about you or anyone else. Are you feeling guilty about something? No stones cast by me.
4. Re: importance of topic: So "they've hung a ticket and that's all they can do" isn't working for me. The importance of the issue stands on its own. It doesn't or shouldn't need a number campaign.
5. Re: who this is for. Actually, I'm not doing this for friends. I'm doing this for the friends and the enemies, for people who get pushed aside as "progress" steamrolls ahead and whose needs are marginalized, as if they are somehow guilty for not fitting in and therefore their difficulty is "deserved". It's not.
6. Re: own way. Yes, but.... I am in Joan of Arc mode. I started out doing this in a tentative "if it wouldn't be too much trouble, can we please try to do what's right" way and it has not even been acknowledged that this is something worth doing. That was three months ago. So don't take it personally if I don't buy into the "they're doing the best they can" thing. They can, and have, done a whole lot better than this when the subject has served their interests.
All it would take to make me shut up, at least in the short-term, is an acknowledgment that this is an important issue, that it is more than about font and avatar size, that they're going to take it up and address it in an upcoming release, and that they invite suggestions from people who are having difficulty using the new interface. It could even be a lie. I'm gullible.
The topic needs to be professionally addressed, with a real usability study, research on what advocacy organizations recommend, and real beta testing. -
I don't use the term "Dev Close" so you are mistaken, you didn't hear it from me, Nor do I have anything in the world to feel guilty for, let alone something on SU, I have no idea what you are getting at. :)
"The topic needs to be professionally addressed, with a real usability study, research on what advocacy organizations recommend, and real beta testing." I think your hopes are too high, good luck with that.
My guess is any fixes on this will just occur, most likely without even telling us, like the inbox recent shares link that just appeared on day *shrug* -
Oh I think SU can address something in a professional manner.
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Inappropriate?This is not about the ADA. I have an addon that makes all my print larger.
Fine motor skills aren't being addressed at SU. I have a script that makes using tag lists easy but sending mass shares is so difficult. If you don't like receiving mass shares untick your box. That will take care of spammers. I used to send out 2 to 3 mass shares a day but it's impossible now. All of my friends like my mass shares, but 4 people don't like receiving mass shares from anyone so I don't send them. That's why they're my friends.
Please bring it back or make it for sponsors only. Also the white background glare is too much for my eyes.
I’m confident that the staff will help.
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I am one of those 4 ppl that don't like mass shares and even I support it as a sponsor feature for the very reason Waschabad wants it.
I second the white bg thing too but that almost goes without saying (from me anyway, since I think *everyone* knows I can't stand the white, lol). -
Betsy, you should talk to ForestHippy. There's a workaround for the mass shares.
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On Mass Shares, Oh rly? I didn't know that!
On White, lol I know you do but for every white lover there is a dark lover who hates the white (and its hard on the eyes) :P -
I like Betsy's (waschabad) mass shares but not necessarily anybody else's. I have a choice. What we accept is up to us as individuals.
The point is that sharing and the whole SU experience must be made easy for everybody (make your own list of so-called disability).
White is wonderful - so long as any kind of not white is an available choice, -
Inappropriate?He made a groups add-on and you can share with groups. It's not as easy as a mass share, but it works. I don't know if there's a limit to how many you can have in a group. But I have groups: cats, poetry, science, weird stuff and I can send to the whole group. You can have a person in more than one group. I don't think you can stumble to your groups, but you can send them shares.
Please, don't everybody message me asking to be added to my cats group.2 Comments Add a comment
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Oh I have that, I didn't realize you could send stumbles to your groups with it though, guess I wasn't paying attention when I installed it, I thought it was just for grouping "friends" and stuff up. I'll have to check into that.
I better already be in the cat group. :P -
I'm not that organized. Maybe I eat too much fiber. Anyways, you gave me a great idea.
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This reply was removed on 01/23/10.
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Just Stumbling is what I did in 2003 before I was this me and before I grabbed the wholeness of SU.
Just Stumble if you wish. Just Stumbling is just fine. It's a choice - your choice (but not mine). Horses choose courses. -
Inappropriate?if there is room for improvement for others to benefit then let it be so . we dont want to make things difficult for stumblers do we . i am confident that that the issue will be dealt with .
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?The technology exists.
It isn't rocket science.
A number of "old" Stumblers (pre 2 million) are still here struggling on and quite a few of them have what might be called a "disability". Perhaps their loyalty and staying power should be repaid with a little consideration. Perhaps new Stumblers need not be put off by anti-usability. Some need plain and simple interface, some need bigger type face, some need easy mousing etc etc etc.
"Switch to easy-view" really cannot be so difficult (if the main interface can't be made "all" user-friendly - of course it can if a will exists)
This thread began three months ago.
Did a ticket get written?
If not - why not?
grrrrr
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