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The Dropped Tap Has Returned *nooooooo*
This last week dropped taps have really sprouted up in many extreme taps, and i mean badly.
Rock and Roll Renegade I can't even get over maybe 150 streak it drops them so much!!!!
There are many others, tapulous can you look into this?
iTouch 2G 3.1.2
Thanks
BPP
Rock and Roll Renegade I can't even get over maybe 150 streak it drops them so much!!!!
There are many others, tapulous can you look into this?
iTouch 2G 3.1.2
Thanks
BPP
I’m p1$$3d off
4
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I have this problem, too!
Tell me when someone solves it.
The more people who report this problem, the more it gets noticed.
The more people who report this problem, the more it gets noticed.
The best solution from everyone
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![[TTWP]krohn7master](http://2.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0333/1177/artwork_small.png)
Human error.
4 people say
this solves the problem
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![[TTWP]krohn7master](http://2.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0333/1177/artwork_medium.png)
Inappropriate?Human error.
4 people say
this solves the problem
7 Comments Add a comment
This solves the problem
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I believe on 2 player its not.... Few diff people tried it on my iPhone same resault -
krohn is right
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No, believe me, I can get you a video if you would like it is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT HUMAN ERROR.
I PROMISE -
@danielth if ur playin two player one person could be pickin up their finger at the same time as the other is tapping so it seems like a dropped tap
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Why is the first assumption human error? I also have the same problems with several songs and dropped taps. Some of the dropped taps I have experienced are so obvious.... The problem exists, deal with it!
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Something came in to mind... On single play I have seen no dropped taps on dubble quite a lot... But I just remembered someone saying that the multiple touch is a 5 Finger system so if u use 6 fingers ( tripple tap on dubble) it will allways drop that because of the multiple touch....half solved but that does not explain why they drop on single notes... Maby my iPhone was just out of memory ( and also my friends I touch... We were playing ttr for ages so maby memory
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I'm not familiar with that particular song, but in general, the dropped taps stuff is a real issue. It gets worse over the course of about a week for me at which point I do a Backup & Restore. After that, I suddenly find myself FCing songs & making leaderboards. Definitely NOT a coincidence. Definitely bugs.
Most of the time you'll find it happens when there are simultaneous tappers or strings of them alternating in adjacent lanes. It seems most likely related to the overlapping tap target issue or whatever you want to call it where taps in one lane register in the adjacent lane.
There also seems to be some sort of issue related to the time you contact the screen. I suspect the handling touch events (something to do with a touch being released, i.e., finger removed) & background tasks are involved.
I also bet that jailbroken phones experience both these issues far less often than non-jailbroken. -
![[TTWP]Maverick05](http://1.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0272/8932/Kopie_von_pgicon_v1.3__modified__medium.png)
Inappropriate?Why are you guys on your iTouches and 3GSes complaining so much?
Dropped tappers are very rare on an iTouch2G/3G iPhone 3GS. They appear more oftwn when you don't have enough memory left, you played like 20 games without restarting the game or everything else that affects the performance. So: simply just restart your ipod, sometimes it's possible that it lags and drops because of auto fetch turned on or just because of impprtant background processes.
EVEN on my jailbreaked 3.1 iphone 3G (THE non-plus-ultra in bad performance) it'a drops rarely. Just the gameplay still isn't as smooth as on newer iPods (that'll never happen), which causes less accuracy.
Online play is something different. Lags and drops more often1 Comment Add a comment
This solves the problem
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I have gone for fcs of spin me round by bmd which isn't that hard and i get 1 or 2 dropped taps even after restarting and that being the first song I play. I'm also on an ipod touch 2g btw. 3.1.2
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![[TTWP]Biblekid2](http://0.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0301/9361/meforgetsatisfaction_medium.jpg)
Inappropriate?On spin me round I have the same problem online sometimes... there's a certain part in the song that a certain tapper seems to drop in the same area. (And I'm well aware that it could possibly be a human error as Trevor a.k.a. Krohn7master suggested). :P
Just sayin' I only have that problem on that song as well.... but only recently, and there are a few times when it seems to be working correctly. :-) -
Inappropriate?Guys I promise it is not not not human error. If you really need it I will video tape it.... It is really 100% sure it isn't. I ahev played for almost a year I knwo what is human error -
Inappropriate?Actuallyz The middle taps are likely to miss for me just sayin' maybe Its human error but then again.. -
![[TTWP]DisDude1](http://2.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0289/8938/DISer_black_and_green_medium.jpg)
Inappropriate?Like krohn said, human error. If you want to know what dropped taps are like, try TTR 1...LOL. -
Inappropriate?You guys don't seem to realize that Spin Me Round is a FAST song. You guys must be THINKING you're hitting the stuff, when you really aren't.
I have BEGGED for people to make videos of them getting dropped taps (more than one in a game) and I still have yet to see one that has no explanation.
Every video of mine where I've lost my streak, I can tell you exactly what happened. Even my Through the Fire and Flames Bridge I + Freakouts video, which has the most stupid miss ever, can be explained easily. It was my fault. I tapped the case of my iPod which sticks out a little on the left and my thumb didn't reach the screen.5 Comments Add a comment
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Only on Phantom II on tap tap dance, it wasn't really your fault.
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yeah, but you can get around it easily. The notes that drop are the same ones everytime, and if you tap them early, you'll get it/
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Sure, the dropped taps have an explanation. SOFTWARE BUGS!
Every video of mine where I've lost my streak, I can tell you exactly what happened. Sometimes it was my fault & I missed. Other times taps are recognized or are recognized in the adjacent lane resulting in a miss in the lane I actually tapped in.
Tapping early, restarting, rebooting, or restoring shouldn't be acceptable solutions! -
Tap Tap Dance is an old game and hasn't been updated in many months.
Let me see some of those videos. -
Videos are pretty time-consuming to make. Why don't you try playing on a non-jailbroken 3GS enough to go from say whatever level it starts you out at to about level 30 or so. During that time, you must also download a new song here & there. I guarantee there are file/memory related issues causing dropped taps & you WILL realize it if you do this.
If not, explain why simply freeing memory, not the amount of memory that is actually free, improves performance? Also, why does disabling Auto Brightness improve performance? I have consistently been able to "revive" a poorly performing device by Restoring from Backup. Explanation? Regarding jailbreaking. Are you aware that Cydia messes with the file system organization? This means that simply installing Cydia could have benefits.
All these things improve performance by decreasing the latency to touch events being time-stamped. There are a number of reasons for this, but I strongly suspect memory management & file system issues would be near the top of the list. So the real question is not "if", but how large is that latency. I doubt Apple publishes specifications on OS latencies, but I do know that ANYTHING that reduces usage of these systems (RAM and/or FLASH) will increase performance & reduces dropped taps. -
Inappropriate?Dropped Taps are either human error, or confusion in the Apple OS. I have confirmed it. Here is what happens:
1. You accidently tap off the screen and don't realize it. This usually occurs when you have a case on the iPod which sticks out a little.
2. You're using OS3.0
3. You're using an iPod Touch 1G, or iPhone 3G or iPhone 1.
4. You tapped too fast/too slow
5. You slid your finger from tap zone to another without realizing it, then tapped a target right next to the zone you slid your finger into. The OS registers your finger slid, across the screen, and then the tap you make while doing that will not be triggered.24 Comments Add a comment
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But krohn, what's that when the app just misses ALL green taps for about 20 seconds? I'm not a bad player..
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That's an error in the OS which occurs dude to low memory. That is, however, rare
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"Dropped Taps are either human error, or confusion in the Apple OS. I have confirmed it."
What about taps in one lane registering in an adjacent lane? -
What do you mean by that? You tap in one lane, but it says you tapped in the next? That's because the tap targets expand into eachother. This is by design so that if you miss the tap zone slightly, it won't say you missed
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Yes, that's exactly what I mean & you've acknowledge this was by design in the past. I suspect this single (bad) design choice is responsible for a large percentage of the "dropped taps" reports.
The real question is why do this at all? I have no problem with a tap dropping if I miss the tap zone slightly but I do have a problem with a tap registering in a lane I did not touch! I'm willing to be the majority of players would agree with me on this issue.
I'm pretty certain this could be made a user-selectable option pretty easily if someone at Tapulous thinks it's an important feature to have. No idea on Earth why someone would want this behavior though. -
Everything we do has a reason.
We tested both ways extensively (With/without overlapping target areas) and the difference is EXTREMELY big. Especially on extreme songs. There were too many times where I would tap a lane, but I didn't tap far enough or something, and therefore no note would register. -
Ahhh... so it's all about you? The rest of us suffer because you can't tap accurately? :)
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even if there are overlapping tap zones, the software should still be able to recognize which lane you are intending to tap if there's no double. it doesn't always analyze it correctly. so yes there seems to be some optimization that can be done to the code to make the logic better. but i also agree with krohn that getting rid of the overlap altogether is not the best solution either. i still want to play like a human being, not a robot focusing on hitting dead center in every lane while taps come down at a lightning pace.
there should be a happy medium -
Until you've tried playing without overlapping tap zones, how will you ever know? Maybe that is exactly the "happy medium" you seek.
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No, it's not all about me. I was just one of them. All beta testers, and employees tried it. Everyone agreed it was worse.
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Worse how? My guess would be the testers got better scores with the zones overlapping. Maybe everyone would be better served by learning to tap more accurately & just accepting that the insanely hard/fast songs are just not going to be possible for everyone to FC or do well at?
Again, this sort of thing should be totally trivial to have as a user-selectable option. It would simply change the numbers when comparing the touch event bounds with the tap zone bounds. Totally trivial & would have zero effect on performance otherwise.
Any chance I could get a version with the non-overlapping tap targets? I doubt it. I suppose someone out there could jailbreak & take a hex editor to the code. Those bounds should just be a constant somewhere in the executable. Might be tricky to find though. -
what? if we make it more difficult to get the taps correctly, you'll have 100 more threads like this complaining about dropped taps
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Define "correctly." How is it correct to tap in one lane & have it register in another? If you can't tap in the lane where the tapper is, that's obviously a dropped tap. Heck, why not have one giant lane?
I suppose it's more "fun" to get higher scores, but I'd rather earn them with accurate timing AND accurate tap position. Overlapping tap targets rewards inaccurate tappers! -
you're not tapping in one lane and having it register in another. you're tapping in an area which covers two lanes and the game tries to figure out which lane u intended to tap. i said before that this logic is still not done correctly for all cases which results in the illusion of a dropped tap (i.e. tapper in the middle is coming down slightly before tapper on the left. you're late on the middle tap and you tap somewhere between left and middle. the game then registers the tap in the left lane early, instead of the middle lane late. what should happen is the game registers the middle tap because you haven't quite missed it yet, and you still have a window of time to tap it).
if you were tapping 100% accurately in terms of both timing and position, this situation would not apply to you at all, since you won't be in an overlapping region, so you can still get your high scores with the most accurate taps. -
mashgotcash, re-read what you just wrote - out loud. It's nonsense, especially the first 2 sentences! :) You are also assuming the software can make the "correct" decision when the only truly correct decision is to accept the tap for when & where it is!
Your last sentence is so wrong! What about the case where the valid tap TIME overlaps as well? Overlapping target areas simply will NEVER work properly as long as overlapping valid tap time windows are also allowed!
krohn7master, did the version with non-overlapping targets compare the geometric centers of the tap target to the geometric center of the area passed in the touch event data structure? I bet not. This is would be the best way to do this in my opinion. It would have the additional benefit of being LESS CPU intensive than the current scheme. I do work as a consultant if Tapulous needs some help. -
"you're tapping in an area which covers two lanes and the game tries to figure out which lane u intended to tap"
i believe it was ceegers who first gave evidence that this does in fact happen. all i'm saying is that there's an area between two lanes that can register either lane, (let's say left and middle). if the only tapper that comes down is a middle tap, it will register the middle tap. if the only tapper that comes down is a left tap, it will register that left tap. but if you have an alternating middle and left, that's where it gets confused. and i didn't make any assumptions about the software making the correct decision, in fact i was saying that it is not correct in all cases.
my last sentence refers to tapping dead center where there is no confusion as to which lane you tapped. i'm not sure what you're referring to when you reference the valid tap time. -
Understanding the valid tap time/window is absolutely KEY to this issue! Guarantee you know what it is but you just haven't given the entire issue enough thought.
As I'm sure you're aware, if you tap a little early or a little late yet, it will still register (not miss). Define the valid tap time window as any point in TIME where you can tap without a miss. With a little thought, you'll see that this presents a problem for the case of side-by-side or alternating tappers.
I provided video evidence of the issue in Ceegers thread regarding the "Doubles Issue." At the time, I wasn't even convinced this problem existed & actually thought I captured a simple dropped tap. Ceegers had a keen eye & noticed that the video indeed proved the tap target areas overlap. After that, I examined more video & saw that this was the reason for most of the dropped taps I experienced when my device was otherwise functioning normally (not too long after a Backup & Restore)
Define "tapping dead center!" Anyone with fairly normal size fingers/thumbs can tap "dead center" in a lane & still contact a portion of the evil "overlap" zone!
The key point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the software to correctly determine which tap was "correct" when the tap time windows overlap AND tap areas overlap (and you contact the overlap area)! It seems to default "left." Think about it more & you'll understand. -
oh, we just weren't on the same page there. i think you're referring to what i guess is being referred to as the "legato bug". from what i've seen, that bug still exists in the game. however, the song in question for this post does not have any instance of those closely alternating taps with overlapping "time" windows if my memory serves me correctly.
ok well if i had to define tapping dead center loosely (i mean very loosely), it would be right in the middle of the circle ;-). yeah, i understand your finger can be wide enough to still contact a portion of an adjacent zone. however i don't know well enough how touches are processed... if a request is made by software to return the coordinates of a "touch", is it an area or a point? (i'm not an iphone developer so bear with me if i'm completely off, i'm assuming there's some sort of on_touch event similar to how visual studio can handle on_click events) i don't know, do you? (if you do please share cause i'd be interested to know). if it's a point then we're done, if it's an area then the software has more processing to do... so now i'm stuck at a point where i just don't know what is going on behind the scenes...
or each tap zone could be its own object with its own on_touch routine, and then its still kinda iffy what happens at that point... lol -
Another thing... maybe watch that video clip in the "Doubles Issue" thread & ask yourself "why would the software choose incorrectly?" in that case. The answer is because the valid tap time window overlaps AND the valid tap target areas overlap.
Given that Apple probably doesn't provide enough details (latency specifications) or the proper tools to analyze the timing to the degree truly necessary, the only way to fix the issue for once & all is to eliminate overlapping tap time windows & probably overlapping tap targets too.
Each touch event has an associated data structure with a field defining the area touched. It would be the apps responsibility to define a point or anything else it wants to from that information. I think the evidence clearly shows they are not using the center of the touch area. I have no idea exactly what they do use though.
The super simple solution I proposed is guaranteed to work all the time, every single time, regardless of whether or not tap areas or time windows overlap! It's so simple that I suspect there is more to the story (because I don't think the engineers at Tapulous are idiots).
I sincerely hope the only reason for overlapping target areas is to make game play easier! -
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The key point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the software to correctly determine which tap was "correct" when the tap time windows overlap AND tap areas overlap (and you contact the overlap area)! It seems to default "left."
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still not sure why it can't default to the tap furthest down the screen? does that conflict with a situation i haven't thought of yet? or are you saying that's dumbing down the game too much to the point where it could be exploited (say by double tapping between the lanes or something like that) -
It could, & maybe it does, but if the tap areas overlap on side-by-side or alternating tappers, the "guess" could be wrong! Think about it. Two tappers in the left lane, 2 in the right. You tap twice in each lane. If any of the taps in the center lane register in the left, you've lost your streak!
The bottom line is that the software shouldn't assume a tap occurs anywhere other than exactly where it is! What's wrong with that? Just having to ask that question makes me feel like I'm living in some kind of alternate universe or something. WTF? -
Oops, that example was supposed to read "2 tappers in the left lane, 2 in the center," not 2 in the right.
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hmm, you mean that OS3.0 causes dropped taps? never really considered the version difference, i better go update xp
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Apple OS does provide just a single point (x, y coordinate) as the location of the touch. However, it is NOT simply the center of the contact patch. The Apple firmware decides (i.e., GUESSES) where you "intended" to touch. Since a "touch" is not a stationary thing (your finger is ALWAYS moving & the contact patch size is ALWAYS changing), Apple has to filter this movement to come up with a single point.
I'm not familiar with touch screen displays (& associated hardware/controller/firmware, etc.). Perhaps the hardware and/or Apple tracks velocity and/or direction to come up with that point. I believe they also take device orientation into account (in real time too?), so they're probably messing with the accelerometers too.
So the bottom line is that Tapulous probably has little control over the definition of a "tap" & felt they needed larger (big enough such that they overlap) tap targets to allow more people to play the more difficult songs.
Regardless, it should be TRIVIAL to allow the user to set the size of the tap targets or, at the very least, have an "overlap ON/OFF" option.
PS. Maybe a future version of iPhone OS will have better support for gaming applications by giving the applications more control over touch events. For example, disabling Apple touch filtering entirely, not tracking movement, etc. -
Inappropriate?there are dropped taps, but they often occur in online games only which is kinda weird :)
offline works fine for me (i am low !)5 Comments Add a comment
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They occur in online mode because of performance issues. That's the only exception.
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fine =)
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Define "performance issues" & explain why those issues would only apply to online play & only online play. Good luck.
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Performance issues include lagging, latency, or tap response delay. I can't give a completely good reason WHY it would happen online, but you need to remember that Online multiplayer will always have lag and such. Haven't you ever played like, Super Smash Bros Online? or any FPS online? You always experience games where players inside have poor connections or such, resulting in game lag.
Same thing happens with Tap Tap. -
I don't disagree that it would happen more online due to latency issues in the WIFI system - whether that be the player's internet hardware, device, or Tapulous servers.
I'm not familiar with other games or how they work with online play, but I've been around this business (real-time software) long enough to know that the same issues really don't apply to a game like TTR. At least they don't have to.
The device/server interaction is not critical to gameplay with TTR. In other words, a delay in a "message" delivery communicated between the 2 has (shouldn't have) no bearing on the next tap, the next not, the song play, etc.
However, these communications do more heavily use the Apple OS networking system & memory (protocol stacks, buffers, etc.) & also increase error handling tasks. These things will increase the latencies I've talked about elsewhere, which will cause more instances of dropped taps & other performance issues (graphics lagging, for example).
There are lots of ways networking taxes the app, OS, & hardware. None of them are good for performance. WIFI especially sucks with respect to power draw on an already heavily taxed device playing TTR.
frbbl, try playing on 3G with WIFI turned off to see if that helps. That's if you're lucky enough to have 3G service where you are playing! Not me! -
Inappropriate?focus on tapping each note slightly sooner and the "drops" should go away. also tap quicker, leaving ur finger on the screen for the least amount of time possible.
try a different grip, play around with a 3 fingered grip and see if it helps also.3 Comments Add a comment
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These are all good suggestions that do help reduce how often you'll miss taps, but really don't address the root cause. Try doing a Backup & then restore your device from that Backup in iTunes. I bet that helps FAR more!
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I have it does nothing
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is your response to me or to bufulo
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Inappropriate?There are some games were it's not human error. Like korn. And it's always the same taps.1 Comment Add a comment
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hmmm same taps everytime...?
i don't have any korn songs in the game so i can't confirm this is the problem - but there have been instances of hidden taps behind real taps (so u would have to tap twice to clear it) in previous versions of the game. if that's the case then its tapulous' fault, but someone else has to confirm the glitch -
Inappropriate?To Krohn:
I amw illing to believe it is a problem witht he OS, but if it si then it is STILL a "Dropped Tap".
I am going to play my next 25 or so songs this week sometime with a video camera recording, I will then take parts of it and show you what I mean (I may upload to photobucket if that is do-able since don't want my bad crap on youtube xD)
I would love someone to tell em that it is human error but I doubt it is cus when i go tap it perfectly as a green tap another and then it comes up and says the last tap was a miss that is a DROPPED TAP.
I will do my best to try to video it, it ma be hard though (I HATE my video camera lol.... really hard to work with) so I will do my best.... give me a few days to capture it.
P.S. It is possible -but unlikely- when i capture it I will see it is my error if it is then I will change my sides and support what krohn has said but I want to prove it one way or another. Fair enough?
BPP6 Comments Add a comment
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yes fair enough =D
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Fair enough. Be sure to play songs which drop the most taps.
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I've done this in the past. You'll probably find that the overlapping tap target issue is causing most of your drops (it is for me) when your device is working well otherwise. There are still times where taps are just outright not recognized (on even the slowest, super easy songs where it's totally obvious).
I'll probably take some more video when I have more time & patience. My stupid digicam only takes 30 seconds at a time at a frame-rate fast enough to see the issue. It also takes a fair amount of time to get the light right (dark room seems best) & transfer/edit the video clips. It's also not as easy playing with a stupid camera in front of you & trying not to move out of the video frame area. Not really worth the time for me anymore since I've done it enough to know what the problems are. -
BUFOLO: what do you use to edit your vids? I don't have anything it seems (I have a mac)
@Krohn Ok good :D, like I said I will work on it as soon as I can (most likely later this week). And I will :D -
P.S. I just realized how bad my typing was there.... lol I gatta watch my spelling xD
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My camera uses AVI format & I use Roxio VideoWave for basic editing on a PC. Sorry, I don't have a Mac. I thought those came with everything you need to do that sort of thing?
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Inappropriate?After reading Krohns posts, seeing zones overap, playing a bit, and FCing more tracks, I conclude that Krohn is right: Human error, but wrong humans at fault. Devs made the poor decision to try to dumb down play and as a result taps get registered to lanes they aren't made in, which explains why it always happens when tappers in two lanes are nearly simultaneous when one drops. The tap for one gets assigned to the other, while the 'later' tap is still in it's own lane. The second tap breaks streak moments before the first tapper drops. Willing to bet vids will reflect that. Until this gets fixed Ive just adjusted to it by playing wider, away from the lines. Oh, and 'Krohning it' by tapping on the line to hit adjacent tappers.
I’m better now.
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What he said! :)
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Inappropriate?Haha taps maybe droppin for you, but yo moms pants be droppin for me!!!! :) hehehe jk jk jk -
Inappropriate?So.....
I would like to bring your attewntion to this 20 second video on Youtube showing dropped taps.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqz-2x...
Shows 2 of them.... First is ahrd to see seconds is VERY VERY obvious
Now try and tell me how the heck that is Human Error PLEASE.... If it is I want to improve but I tapped both and both didn't register, I can get mroe of these but I don't really want to.... so tell me....
BPP3 Comments Add a comment
This solves the problem
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I agree with you BPP, it definately drops them. It's happened to me in songs where they are close like that. I would also like to point out that it is NOT just a problem with TTR3, It is across ALL Tap Tap APPS! Somebody made a lousy programming error.
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Additionally, what staff have to relise is that however they program it, they will adjust how they tap to make sure they dont drop when they are testing. That's because they know how they have programmed it to register tap zones. same with beta testers I would suspect.
The average joe public don't know any of the technical shite that goes into it. They just pick it up and play!!! And when it drops taps, when they know it shouldn't have they post on here.
Then we get krohn & the like telling us its human error when its not!!!!!!! it's a fob off for programming problems. -
Exactly as I said it was. You tap too close to the line, still within the timeframe for the tapper to count, but because the green tapper has technically already crossed the tap line the programming assumes that the tap was intended for the next note before the tap line, which was a red tapper in the first drop and blue in the second. The next tap you make breaks streak as the first tapper drops.
For the record, 'i'm a believer' is a royal pain to FC with the overlapping tap zones. I've done it, once, but I need to retake top spot which is just not possible without several taps I tap early purposefully to avoid the drops being tapped on time...and it's still hard to do it due to those damned dropped taps. It really needs to be fixed. That would be super special awesome. -
![[TTWP]DXChain](http://0.static.getsatisfaction.com/uploaded_images/0322/4228/avatar2m_medium.png)
Inappropriate?People cry too much over nothing around here.
While the tap timing is exactly the same in order to receive a "green" quality tap in the faster Extreme songs that use the default TTR3 theme, it visually confuses most low skilled players because in Hard mode and most premium themes, the notes visually have to go well beyond or right at the tap target line. -
Inappropriate?So the final answer is that it is just because of a not so great tap zone? WTF?!? then why doesn't it get fixed lol.....
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Inappropriate?I highly doubt a 1-pixel tap zone will fix the fact that people lack rhythm, speed, and timing.1 Comment Add a comment
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A "1-pixel" tap zone is a ridiculous exaggeration - even more ridiculous than overlapping tap zones! Hmmm... maybe not. I think I'd actually prefer a 1 pixel tap zone instead of overlap.
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Inappropriate?Ok this is a little rediculous IMO, I would love to see krohn back here for a bit, would love a response....
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Inappropriate?OK, dropped taps sucks... but get over it everybody! Shit happens, no point complaining about something for over 4 days on something they can't fix. Just STFU and go play
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Inappropriate?You all are crazy. Dropped taps ARE HUMAN ERROR.
BPP's video proved absolutely nothing. It almost seems like you TRIED to let some of those taps drop. So lets analyze the video here.
The first miss is very hard to see at first, but after close examination, you can see that your left thumb kind of, hesitates, a little when it goes from center/right lane doubles to center/left lane doubles, therefore falling behind the beat (look at the tap accuracy bar). Because he gradually taps later and later (not keeping up) He eventually misses.
Second miss: at 0:14, you all of a sudden start to play with one damn thumb. Because you're not very fast, you fall behind the beat (proof is the tap accuracy meter at the top). Once you stupidly try to tap the double note with one thumb, you tap the left side first really late (Again, look at tap accuracy bar) and then you were too slow tapping the center lane, therefore, you legitimately missed.
One observation: You tap VERY close to the border separating the screen and the case. I suggest if you want to play with thumbs that you change your grip to how I hold it and tap extra high on the tap targets. Not to mention you have to really really tap the screen when there are ~8 notes onscreen. Not press it. This game is, afterall, called Tap Tap. If you've ever learned how to tap well in Guitar Hero, you'll know you really have to tap the buttons or they won't register. Learn how to tap the intro of Through the Fire and Flames on expert and you'll know exactly what I mean.
Also, this goes to everyone claiming there are dropped taps: Don't give me the crap that you're good and you know for sure you tapped. BS. If you're so good, where are your scores on the leaderboards? Obviously you're doing something wrong if players like Maverick and Brian_t91 can own the leaderboards on iPod Touch 1G's and iPhone 3G's. I suggest you guys need to step up your game and get over the fact that you just need to improve your agility in your fingers/thumbs or simply improve your hand-eye coordination. I'm sorry, but the game doesn't just decide to randomly drop tappers. It just doesn't happen. There's always something you did that made it happen.4 Comments Add a comment
This solves the problem
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I agree completely that BPP's video proves nothing. Video proof is not easy to get. To really do it right, you need high frame rates & more than one video (multiple angles). You need to capture the actual finger contact with the screen (not easy). It should be easy enough to capture the REALLY obvious drops that occur though - those on much slower songs.
However, I'm also not crazy, am on a few leaderboards, & do know a dropped tap when it happens. It absolutely DOES happen & is mostly random except for the ones due to the overlapping targets issue.
I STRONGLY suspect that most reports of dropped taps are due to the overlapping targets issue & are legitimate complaints even if they don't meet your definition of drops. -
Dropped taps occur when your game lags, or when the device is very low on memory, and when it happens, it usually completely turns off one of the lanes for about 3 seconds. If that doesn't happen, you will then get the White Block glitch thing.
The overlapping tap target thing IS indeed one of the factors that leads to one possible scenario of when taps do drop. This, however, is very easy to get around, and very preventable. All you do is just be careful with hold notes and keep your fingers still and let go of the hold as soon as you let go of tapping the tap you just made.
The issue is, making the targets not overlap will bring up other problems. For example, if you've played Beat Rider or Rock Band, it is VERY easy to accidentally tap the wrong target, and usually when you do, it's by like, 2 pixels.
Tap Tap Revenge 3 and 2 have code programmed to make the overlapping targets work.
^^That is the beta theme, but the tap targets are the same, except the weapon and tap target areas DO NOT overlap right now.
Lets say there is a tap in the right lane. You go to tap it, but shit. You tapped a little too much into the center lane, but you did tap in the overlapping part of the center/right lanes. So, the code works where it will register the tap in the lane where the closest beat is (if the beat is inside of the tap zone).
If the overlapping thing didn't exist, there would be more people complaining that they keep hitting the wrong lanes, than the amount of people who complain about errors with this code. Trust me, I know where you're coming from, and I was strongly with you, but when myself and many others tested the non overlapping targets, we concluded the overlapping targets are better to have. -
The problem is that those "shit" moments you describe are obviously 100% user error. That's a LOT easier to defend than incorrect software "guesses!"
I also still think that if the valid tap time window were truly honored, the complaints wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are with overlap. This is because tappers that are close together in alternating lanes, for example, could be hit out-of-order as long as the tap time window was not violated. Maybe this is a little harder to code, but I truly believe no overlap can be made to work even with the apparent current OS limitations.
Regardless, it would be SO EASY to add an option to reduce the target size. The current "guessing" algorithm could remain in place. Then, when people complain about dropped taps due to overlap, you could just tell them to turn off the overlap (which effectively eliminates the guessing). If that doesn't help, they either need to practice more or take their complaint to Apple!
I just don't believe EVERYONE would prefer overlap. I don't believe Apple OS is that bad at finding the "center" of a touch. Maybe I'm wrong. I do trust your testing, but knowing the variability of play (finger sizes, contact angles, etc.) & given how easy it would be to add the option, I think it's a no-brainer to add the "no overlap" or variable overlap option.
PS. Thanks for the graphic. That's quite the BUTTLOAD of overlap! -
The next tapper can approach the tap line within the grace period given to the previous tappers when playing in extreme games. If this happens and you've tapped in an overlap, guess what happens? The tap is assigned incorrectly, and the previous tap drops. Verdict: programming error.
Thanks for vindicating me Krohn. And thanks for the image, though I had already eliminated dropped taps by playing wider...though the sliver of the green non overlap zone does frighten me.
