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Charging 20$ for a beta?!
Okay, help me out here -- when did software developers start charging money for unpolished beta versions...?! I admit that EventBox has potential and I have long been waiting for some kind of "social web aggregator" for the Mac...but it lacks a whole bunch of services and it also lacks many features concerning those services...!
So giving users a trial period of 14 days and the having them pay 20$ for beta testing you app is a total dealbreaker...!
I think the app may be going in the right direction and I'm sure you people are putting lots of effort into it, which I certainly appreciate -- but this policy (that has unfortunately become more common lately) is just not right...
So giving users a trial period of 14 days and the having them pay 20$ for beta testing you app is a total dealbreaker...!
I think the app may be going in the right direction and I'm sure you people are putting lots of effort into it, which I certainly appreciate -- but this policy (that has unfortunately become more common lately) is just not right...
I’m pissed
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Inappropriate?Hi Mile,
I can see that you're posting the same comment everywhere there is a discussion about EventBox. The truth is, we're only charging $15 as you have outlined in your comment on theappleblog.com (http://theappleblog.com/2008/11/13/ma...), please do not try to mislead people with the current title.
Let me address the issue at hand. If you buy EventBox, here's what you get:
- Access to the beta (so that you can use it)
- Version 1.0 when it gets released
- All point fixes (1.x)
- Unlimited email support
Essentially, you are getting the full-version of EventBox for $5 less ahead of time. We do not force anyone to buy it. On top, we believe that $15 is good value for EventBox at what it can do at the moment. The Twitter part is 95% full-featured, the Flickr part is also very featured - you can upload single photos, we have a dedicated photo uploader and a photo viewer. Digg / Reddit are using as much features as their APIs allow. As you might have noticed from our Twitter account, we're constantly working on EventBox and releasing new build every few days. We've a HUD window in the works and RSS syncing will be implemented as soon as we can. We're certainly quite engaged with our users (paid or not).
In the end, it really boils down to decide whether it is worth $15 to YOU. I'm not trying to come out with the same old argument but we also have a ton of expenses to cover, not even counting the development costs which have gone into EventBox.
Please contact me via email if you want to pursue this matter further.
Kind regards,
Milen
The Cosmic Machine
1 person says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?I just bought the app *because* of this post. Didn't know about the $5 off if you buy it now. Look, the app is already great, and I was 99% sure I was going to buy it when it's out of beta. I find it useful enough right now to use it full time, they've already listened to my feedback and addressed stuff I specifically asked for, and I don't see a problem with supporting a young project and encouraging them to continue.
1 person says
this answers the question
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Inappropriate?Hey Milen!
I can see that you're posting the same comment everywhere there is a discussion about EventBox.
That's right -- and I am not doing it to offend you, but because I think this is an important issue that needs to be discussed...! And probably also because I am a bit disappointed by that kind of business conduct...
(I would have changed the title of this thread if that were possible, but as I was writing the initial post the price tag was $ 20 -- so it wasn't my intention to mislead anyone...! And you shouldn't accuse me of doing so either...)
Essentially, what I am byuing is a pig in a poke...! I would be pre-financing your development by purchasing an app that is far from being usable on a daily basis and about which I don't know enough to expect it to be finished any time soon...!
Don't get me wrong, I would gladly pay $ 15-20 for this once it is completed, but I wouldn't have my car dealer convince me to pay for the new car now and have the wheels delivered some time in the future...! ;)
Right now I have no idea when the final version is going to be released and whether it will actually be as useful/usable as I hope it might be...but you honestly expect me to pay up in advance...?! Uhm, sorry, not going to happen...
(And no, I don't think that $ 15 would be an acceptable price tag if you sold the app as it is right now...but that's just my own personal and subjective opinion)
As I said before - as long as it is a beta, it should be free...! Once you have a final version (whenever that may be), then you can/should charge money for it...!
Again, I am not saying any of this to insult or offend you and I do appreciate all the effort you are putting into an app that does have potential...! So I will keep an eye on EventBox and see where it goes -- and once you have a final version I will certainly consider buying a full license...! But as of now I'm back to Twitterific and Safari...
Wishing you all the best for the future,
- MILE
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Inappropriate?
but you honestly expect me to pay up in advance...?!
As I have said before, we do not expect anyone to pay for something they do not consider good value - that is your personal decision to make. If EventBox does not satisfy your needs, don't buy it - end of the story.
Don't get me wrong, I would gladly pay $ 15-20 for this once it is completed...
Once we release EventBox 1.0, you will probably hear about it from some source. Check it out then and decide for yourself.
And no, I don't think that $ 15 would be an acceptable price tag if you sold the app as it is right now...but that's just my own personal and subjective opinion
I think this is the source of our disagreement. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we should respect each others' standpoint, even if we do not agree with it. You should also bare in mind that simply deciding whether to release a software product (finished or not) for free is not just a matter of putting a registration window - there are many internal factors which you might not be aware of. -
Inappropriate?
Once we release EventBox 1.0, you will probably hear about it from some source. Check it out then and decide for yourself.
I most definitely will do that, as I already said...
I think this is the source of our disagreement.
While it maybe one of the points we disagree on, it is not the only one. ;)
Generally I just think that this kind of business conduct is simply wrong -- plain and simple...
I also have the feeling that you're taking my criticism a bit personal, although it isn't meant to be...
You should also bare in mind that simply deciding whether to release a software product (finished or not) for free is not just a matter of putting a registration window - there are many internal factors which you might not be aware of.
Trust me, I sure know that...! I have been associated with the software business and software development since 1990 -- back in the good old Amiga days...! ;)
And while I am not a developer myself I have actually been in Sales & Marketing in the IT business ever since, so i do know what it takes to publish a software product and I am quite aware of the internal (and external) factors...
Anyway, I guess we can agree on one thing -- that we disagree...! ;)
So keep up the (undoubtedly) good work and I hope to talk to you soon, once you have a full version of EventBox ready for purchase...! :)
- MILE
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Inappropriate?
Generally I just think that this kind of business conduct is simply wrong -- plain and simple...
It seems that we (and our customers) also disagree on this. Which I believe is perfectly fine (to disagree) as I have stated before.
Before releasing EventBox, we made the decision to charge a reduced price for it during the beta since it is good value. We believe it was the right thing to do and we stand behind that choice. -
Inappropriate?...that is far from being usable on a daily basis...
Different strokes for different folks but I am finding this beta very usable, very stable and very worth the money. It has already replaced SocialThing for my 'appregation' needs.
I’m not wearing an onion on my belt and asking for five bees for a quarter
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Inappropriate?
Different strokes for different folks but I am finding this beta very usable, very stable and very worth the money. It has already replaced SocialThing for my 'appregation' needs.
I honestly don't see how EventBox in its current state could replace Socialthing when the only social service it actually supports seems to be Twitter -- and even that is far from what other (mostly free) Twitter applications offer...!?!
Again, I don't mean to bash the app -- but seriously...?!
As for Facebook, it only shows you status updates...you can't do more with Digg news than browse through them and as for an RSS reader, there's plenty of those out there...! (Actually I find it odd to be included in the first place, but anyway...)
Never mind, I guess I'm just expecting more of an app than what EventBox has to offer right now...!? My bad, I guess...
And since I don't want my criticism being mistaken for unrightful trolling, I'll just shut up and leave this thread for now...
- MILE -
Inappropriate?SocialThing is kinda ugly and doesn't have half the features EventBox does, or will have. The HUD will make it be Twitteriffic + SocialThing minus the crap.
I paid for it because it was good when I bought it and I wanted to support the developers and give them a reason to continue on developing. If you don't like the app: don't buy it. If you have a problem with the word "Beta" then that's your own issue.
As for stability: It has never crashed for me. I use it all day long and I love it.
Final Summary: Don't like it? Don't pay for it.
I’m angry
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Inappropriate?Essentially, what I am byuing is a pig in a poke...! I would be pre-financing your development by purchasing an app that is far from being usable on a daily basis and about which I don't know enough to expect it to be finished any time soon...!
I have used Eventbox for the last seven days and it has been running without any problems so far. Yes, I have had trouble updating once but that issue was fixed within seconds.
Eventbox does what I need, the developers listen to me and not only do they listen, they reply too.
Don't get me wrong, I would gladly pay $ 15-20 for this once it is completed, but I wouldn't have my car dealer convince me to pay for the new car now and have the wheels delivered some time in the future...! ;)
Seeing how the wheels are the second most important part of the car, I do not see how you can make such a comparision. Eventbox drives very well and has, so far, exposed me to more information than 6 gallons of gas in my car could if I were to take it out for a drive.
Like others said, if you do not agree with the price, voice your concerns and then move on. Those that bought it obviously see value in it and are fine with the idae of paying and supporting the developers.
Eventbox is developed in a different way than say Microsoft Office where the product has to be ready by the time it ships. Office does not see continous improvements only bugfixes (until a new major version comes out), Eventbox sees new improvements every day.
I’m providing even more insight.
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Inappropriate?I agree with MILE here. It is all about the terminology being used; I think the community may not be familiar with what beta means in software development. The idea of purchasing comes with a final product.
That being said, it doesn't mean eventbox needs to follow that model. However, it is a little confusing to someone who is.
Keep up the good work and community effort, it looks as though the product is keeping many people happy!
BTW, have you considered any other authentication mechanisms? The requirement of entering all my passwords for other sites is against my own policy. Giving the nature of hacks today, I want to do it but can't bring myself to do so. Have you considered using keychains on the mac instead?
I’m cheery
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Inappropriate?EventBox is using the keychain to securely store it's password. There is no way for EventBox to access the web services without having access to your password - the services require it (those that support logging in).
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Inappropriate?I agree with the other posts. Requiring users to purchase your very imcomplete beta to continue testing for you is just rude. Only 14 days? MAYBE, for something like $5, I can see it, but for $15? I'm saving a whole $5 on an incomplete app. So what? For that type of minimal saves you should be giving away a lifetime of upgrades if someone is willing to take the risk.
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This answers the question
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Not your app, go use the competitors if you don't like it. It's not buggy at all for me. -
@ZicklePop Please go back and read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about it being buggy. I said it was incomplete. (well, imcomplete. mistyped it) When I could run it, Eventbox was very stable for me. I like what I think they are trying to create. What I disagree with it telling your users they have to pay $15 to test it. I know they are poor college students, but this is asking too much.
There are lots of Twitter software that does what eventbox does for free. Flickr integration doesn't support comments. The rest you can do a RSS reader because all Eventbox does right now is forward you to the web page.
They made a mistake picking some services that had poor APIs. I want a tool where I can do all the things I do on a daily basis inside the application and Eventbox has a long way to go there. I hope they reach it though. -
We do not believe EventBox is so incomplete to not warrant the price tag. Yes, we do have some missing features but they will be added in the future. If $15 is too much of a risk for you, you can just follow the development on Twitter or check back every 1-2 months.
Also, your remark about Flickr integration is inaccurate - commenting on Flickr photos is supported. You just select the photo and the bottom bar changes to a text box. -
A quick web search and the only company I can find charging for betas is MS. And they only charged $1.50 to test office and people still threw a fit over that. They are doing a favor helping you test and design it, for free. You throw that back in your face.
You have no release notes on your site. The Flickr changes are new since I had downloaded. I'm glad to see you are adding some new features. I'd love to test it again and give you feedback on your beta, but you don't allow people to test without them paying $15 for the privilege. -
@Milen "check back every 1-2 months" does this mean that the trial period is resetted with every new beta build?
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"Flickr integration doesn't support comments." Flickr's API doesn't hook into comments.
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@Glark, yes it does. http://www.flickr.com/services/api/fl...
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EventBox supports Flickr commenting.
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Sorry, I was talking about new comment notifications on your own photos. That's not supported, right? For example, can you use the API to have Eventbox tell me that I have a new comment on a 6-month old photo?
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Yes, we do fetch new comments every time we do a refresh (we just don't send a notification that a new comment has been posted).
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Really? Neat. I find that what keeps me going back to Flickr.com is that I need to check what people are saying about my photos. Any chance you could work that into EV as a sub-folder under Flickr?
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Inappropriate?@paxton Not automatically. When we release a build with major new features (e.g. Google Reader, HUD) we will reset the trials. We can also issue temporary re-evaluation licenses by contacting us via email.
