Mixing not smooth at all

i really feel the difference, when I do the "P" down + play, the tracks aren't beat matched anymore as they were before the upgrade, i'm sure something has changed and when I beat match manually, it drift very quicly
Surely it can't just be mine

think they've always drifted, just don't know why theycan't get it locked down

i don't know what's happening but before the last upgrade my mixing was as smooth as anything and now i'm really struglling.

old age and athritis kicking in ;-)

funny you say that, my knees ae well hurting today.

my fingers started clicking proper bad about 2 months ago, recon i'm getting rsi using the pacemaker, wonder if i can sue them for that

I Blame the bad wheater.

yep I have the same problem tooo it was good , now drifting as much as it's become bad mixing :(

Guys, can I just try and get something clear here. Everyone is talking about tracks drifting, as though the PM is speeding up and slowing down tracks. In my experience IT IS NOT.

There are 2 things fundamentally wrong...

1) The beatgrid / BMP calculation is PME is wrong. We all know the algorithm is broken. The PME constantly tries to work out the BPM on a track, even when there is no beat, and it does a really bad job. So, although the BPM of the track is constant, the beatgrid is all over the place, drifting up and down whenever there is no beat.
2) The beatmatch feature on the PMD is “approximate”. It does a very poor job of matching the current BPM of both track and it does this based on the beatgrid, and we already know the beatgrid is bad from point 1)...

All that is required to pull off perfect mixes with the PMD are some good old fashioned DJ skills. Simply beatmatch the tracks which will get the BPM’s close, and then manually adjust the pitch up and down by small amounts by holding P-UP and nudging the pitch. If the track on headphone monitor is drifting to the right, then drop the pitch left by a few tenths of a percentage. Then bring the beats back in line with a quick swipe and listen. Do the opposite if it is drifing to the left. Once you get the two tracks matched they do not drift at all. I have had 2 tracks playing side by side without a drift for 7 minutes easy....

Do not try and use the beatgrid display if there is no beat on either track. The display will drift but the tempo of each track is remaining constant. Just use your ears until the beat comes back.

This is how I have had to mix for the last 20+ years, whether it has been on good old 1200’s or CDJ’s. The PMD is no different.

Tonium really must fix the beatgrid calculation, but until that happens, and with a little bit of effort you can still mix perfectly. You just need to learn not to trust the beatgrid...

Hope that helps... Correct me if I am wrong.

^^^^^ I agree still being able to mix already a DJ but why not to get usefull of this function in doing something else adding effect whatever ......

At last I'm getting a bit of life to that thread.
I agree that mixing with your hears is the key with the PMD but because the BPM algorithm fluctuate so much, I find myself spending most of my time adjusting the beats mid mix instead of being able to use the FX.
it looks like that by repairing the time strech issue, they made the BPM fluctuation worse.
I think this issue should now be a priority for Tonium.
They are trying to appeal to the mass market with the beat graph thing but it take months/years to learn to manually beat match and DJ beginers will not be able to do that with the PMD as it is and it will not be as easy to do with or without the beat graph as Toniun advertise.
I personlly would like to think that I can beat match with my hears only but i'm strugling since the last upgrade.

turn up the hearing aid :-)

LOL

God bless my "hears" ;-) lol

@regis - I had not made the connection with the time stretch function and the BPM fluctuation... I wonder? The reason I would question whether they are linked is that the BPM / Beatgrid calculation is undertaken 100% in the Editor – It is completed and “set in stone” when the track is analysed in the PME. It can never change on the device. And because the algorithm is broken, the beatgrid / BPM calculation is crap.
The time stretch is calculated in real time on the Device. That algorithm was improved with the last release (at least it is much better most of the time for me). Before then, many tracks sounded as though the vocals were under water! Now they are much better.
I cannot see any correlation between the time stretch and BPM drifting. I.e. It does not get any better / worse with time stretch switched on or off, nor does it differ with big / small pitch shifts.
I totally accept that Tonium probably changed the BPM / Beatgrid calculation in the last update and made it worse, but I really don’t think it is in any way related to the correction of the time stretch feature...
Let me know what you think.

I'm not technical so it was just an assumption but i thought it was bit of a coincidence.
I tried to take the "timestrech" option off but you're right it doesn't make any differences, plus I need the timestretch because I mix in key.
Mixing in key is possible without timestretch/Mastertempo but it involves calculations and I don't want to that.
The vibriting vocal has definitely been sorted out but an other problem has beeing created or apeared now.
Let's hope they can sort it out.

BE QUICK TONIUM AND RELEASE AN UPDATE FOR THIS PROBLEM ....., Pacemaker IS A DJying Device so Beatmatching Issue IS Essential Thing TO be Fixed ///// GIVE IT A HIGH PERIORTY/////////

well thanks for replaying mats but really The beat matching Issue is one of the most important Issues regarding to pace maker ... I tried many tracks they drift and also where there is no breaks, and It drift even with Beatmatched Tracks Manually so I think a Beat Lock also should be Added not to make Tracks drift like this...... PS: TRY TO Figure out how to correct the beat Analyzer/Beat Matching even If it required a help from Outside Tonuim (I hope you know what I mean :P) .....

well there's you're answer add a beat lock feature like tracktor

Hi Mats, you say that you didn't do anything to the beat grid but before the last upgrade it was definitely not as bad as it is now.
Before, when tracks drifted, the P buton + play kept the beats matched longer than it does now.
I usually do and upload 2 mixes a week and they're usualy quite smooth but if you have a quick listen to my last two, they sound like beginers mixes.
I've been mixing with the PMD since day 1 at least 1 hour a day and I thought i mastered the mixing until the last upgrade.
It has nothing to do with any of the track as it happens all the time now, included tracks that I mixed ok before.
As Migzy mentioned, "there's you're answer, add a beat lock feature like tracktor "
And please don't tell me that it is "PATENTED" like the Sink button is and that why you can't do it
You guys have to find a way to sort this because the "Mass market" Tonium is trying to target with the easy beat match tool it's just not working today.
And for more advanced DJ the constent beat adjusting is a right pain.
thanks

Has this forum gone crazy?
threads that haven't any movement for days, are coming back to the top
What's that about?

Hi Mats

You say in your last post "zoom in on the part where the track drift and see if the beat grid is completely out of place."

My question is,can we or are we going to be able to Manually adjust the beat grid to bring it in line with the beat or will that just cause more problems.

Cheers

Any Comming updates with solution for this probleM ^-*

Yes Please, BPM lock for the next uprade would be nice

+1 - Essential please!

Not sure if this helps but i've been doing some mixing with mix save off and everything has been nice and smooth. I then tried with mix save on and mixing became more erratic and drifted more.

no difference for sure.... even without trying because i always MIX save OFF .lol

I think BPM lock is a must for the future

BPM Lock would improve things but I must say I haven't had any huge problems. Yes, the BPM does drift a tiny bit but nothing that is really noticable. just my view..

Pete

at last a positive "sort of" answer

yes the BPM of my trance tracks on the editor software is COMPLETELY OFF. Some 140 BPM tracks are "analyzed" as having 70 BPM ?? Please fix the BPM algorithm + add BPM lock, but #1 is to fix the BPM mis-calculation! After all, my old Pioneer DJM-300 mixer never failed at this!!!! Both in "real BPM" and "Ave BPM" PLEASE!!!!!!

I purchased my pmd for PORTABLE DJING between gigs, and with the state of the bpm all i seem to have is a compact pair of ipods...
It must be corrected.

i'm thinking about getting one of these right, but it sounds like everyone here has some complaints. how bad is this problem? like, if it sounds like the track is drifting, why can you just nudge it back in place and then change the pitch accordingly? what did you guys all do before "beatgrids" or even knowing the BPM of your tracks?

Well, just got my Pacemaker few weeks ago and experiencing the same problem... First I have to say that when I got my Pacemaker I didn't have access to internet so I used it a few days before making the update. I really felt the difference... the bpm match is nonsense and useless now...
It feels like having a ferrari and not being able to put the side windows down... it goes but can't enjoy the fresh air...
Now since it seems that this topic started 6 month ago and I can read "We are aware" of this, I'm getting a bit confused... is it a sign that Tonium is not supporting its product... A few of my friends who are thinking about buying it ask me what I think about it since it doesn't come cheap... well I have some doubt...

hopefully, this will be sorted on the next upgrade or there will be a riot

please release an upgrade with BPM lock asap!

upgrade please

While I don't mind the drift so much (As I learned how to beat match prior to getting anything digital) it's a little inconvenient but I think it's mostly a laziness thing. I think I am going to just get rid of the Beatmatch bar (And the BPM..if I can?) as those things have made me lazy. The only time I have found seeing the BPM to be a useful function is when I am quick mixing a BUNCH of tracks with which I am not familiar. I would love to see an upgrade BUT I won't mind doing this the old fashioned way.