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Long time average of ALL-TIME usage?
Hi folks,
as you may or may not be capable of reproducing/following, the uptime graph of an avergae wuala user will roughly follow a y=1/(x+1)+10 shaped graph with asymptote at 100. so all those very dedicated sharers of storage can never range up to the 99.9% uptime they achieve since there is 1 month of presumed 10% online time. This does not really seam very fair in my eyes. aditionally, if someone has build up one year of 99% uptime and then goes on a vacation, he will 1. take an incredible amount of time to restore his 99% and 2. if he permanently has to take his server offline (for whatever reason), he will continue to get huge amounts of space while not sharing for very long. (significantly longer than a year).
I think it would be smarter to make the long-time average of maybe 2-4 month so that the online-time is only relatively temporarily influenced and users which stop sharing din't get humongous amounts of storage for such an extended period of time.
Comments, opinions etc please!
as you may or may not be capable of reproducing/following, the uptime graph of an avergae wuala user will roughly follow a y=1/(x+1)+10 shaped graph with asymptote at 100. so all those very dedicated sharers of storage can never range up to the 99.9% uptime they achieve since there is 1 month of presumed 10% online time. This does not really seam very fair in my eyes. aditionally, if someone has build up one year of 99% uptime and then goes on a vacation, he will 1. take an incredible amount of time to restore his 99% and 2. if he permanently has to take his server offline (for whatever reason), he will continue to get huge amounts of space while not sharing for very long. (significantly longer than a year).
I think it would be smarter to make the long-time average of maybe 2-4 month so that the online-time is only relatively temporarily influenced and users which stop sharing din't get humongous amounts of storage for such an extended period of time.
Comments, opinions etc please!
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10% is only the starting value, so there is no first month of presumed 10% online time. Every day, we update your onlinetime x to x' as follows:
x' = (x * 31 + xday)/32
where xday is the measured uptime of that day. So in the beginning, when xday is 100%, you can gain almost 3% (that's 100% / 32) per day. I think this is pretty fair. Someone going on vacation for two weeks per year shouldn't be able to get an uptime higher than 96% at average (two weeks is about 4% of the year). However, we could improve the system by notifying Wuala when someone uninstalls it and then setting the uptime of this computer to 0% immediately.
btw: you shouldn't be that worried whether you have 90% or 99% uptime. By increasing your uptime from 30% to 40%, you increase your earned storage by 33%, but by increasing your uptime from 90% to 99%, you only increase it by 10%. So while its certainly cool to have an uptime in the 90% range, it doesn't really make that much of a difference whether you have 95% or 99%.
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Inappropriate?But then if I go on vacations for a couple of weeks I would also loose space much more faster and I might loose my files.
But I like this topic. I would like to see further discussion about this matter. -
Inappropriate?10% is only the starting value, so there is no first month of presumed 10% online time. Every day, we update your onlinetime x to x' as follows:
x' = (x * 31 + xday)/32
where xday is the measured uptime of that day. So in the beginning, when xday is 100%, you can gain almost 3% (that's 100% / 32) per day. I think this is pretty fair. Someone going on vacation for two weeks per year shouldn't be able to get an uptime higher than 96% at average (two weeks is about 4% of the year). However, we could improve the system by notifying Wuala when someone uninstalls it and then setting the uptime of this computer to 0% immediately.
btw: you shouldn't be that worried whether you have 90% or 99% uptime. By increasing your uptime from 30% to 40%, you increase your earned storage by 33%, but by increasing your uptime from 90% to 99%, you only increase it by 10%. So while its certainly cool to have an uptime in the 90% range, it doesn't really make that much of a difference whether you have 95% or 99%.
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This is one of the best points
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Based on your formula, the current value of x has a weight of 31/32 and xday has a weight of 1/32 when calculating the new average.
Now lets assume that I'm trying to calculate my average online time for the past month and 1 day (or 32 days based on a 31 day month). If my average online time for the first 31 days was 10% and my online time for the 32nd day was 100% then the first 31 days would have a weight of 31/32 and the last day would have a weight of 1/32 so my new average would be:
x' = 10 * 31/32 + 100*1/32 = (10*31 + 100)/32 = 12.8 %
Notice how this is the same formula that is being used.
So what I proved is that by using 10% as the starting value this implies that there is 1 month of presumed 10% online time.
Even though I'm enjoying a degree in math, this only requires high school math to see the logic.
The rate at which my online % is changing is kind of depressing (especially for a new user) so I think that the formula should be changed so that it displays your true online time:
x' = (x * N + xday)/(N+1) where N is the # of days that have passed
You could put a cap on N so that it doesn't exceed a set limit (such as 31) so that it doesn't converge too slowly after many days.
As for the 17% requirement, you could replace that with the following:
To be able to trade storage, these 2 requirements must be met:
-minimum 72 hours of online time (it currently takes about 3 days to reach the required 17% using the provided formula)
-25% online requirement
Let me know if we should be discussing this someplace else.
Determinant -
Determinant: This formula ssems good as well, but I fear online time would decrease too slowly when you stop sharing (if you don't put the 31 day limit there). Also your online time would skyrocket from the beginning compared to now, maybe not a veery good thing, since this could easily lead to abuse scenarios (I get ~1/2 GB/day so it would be easy to get 100% online time, leave the computer online for 20 days and then change/delete your machine.dat so you can get another 100GB for your account that converges quite slowly If you uploaded enough you could even stop this alltogether since your data is not "in danger"...)
I think they should just set the starting point at 15% so you can start sharing after 1 day (so you have time to get to know the program and don't get confused by popups like "You can now trade storage!" etc.) but you won't have to wait that long if you're not online 24/7. more storage nodes are a good thing and it would help if people would be able to get more storage space more easily + faster, since buying storage is quite heavy, money wise. -
Inappropriate?I think that the application can help to the users to be more pattient, if the numbers are more transparent. i.e. If the application show how calculates the increase or decrease of that avg online time of the previous day (showing the value for each variable of that equation in some part of the application).
My two cents...
I’m undecided
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This is one of the best points
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Yeah, that formula needs to be at least in the FAQ + a direct link to that formula needs to be in the client somewhere - the question "Why do I get 3%/day in the beginning but only 1%/day if I'm online for a longer period of time and proved myselt trustworthy" comes up far too often!
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Inappropriate?I think it is much better for the user interface to leave away the percent label!
I created a mockup of how the interface should look like (just an idea, maybe you like it)
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/53...
NOTE: this is not the correct formula as mentioned by Luzius because I wanted to focus on the user interface which I think still needs a lot of work.3 Comments Add a comment
This is one of the best points
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I tried looking at the image but it says that it's unavailable
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It's available now... Good Idea, but maybe it would be better to display "hours online in the last 31 days"? This way you can easily see what the formula will do...
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I see, I will change that in my next mockup
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Inappropriate?Initially, I thought this was a bug because I was thinking that surely I was online for more than 10% of the time.
Then I was thinking that peer guardian was blocking some connections and that's why my online time was low so I disabled peer guardian. I now know better.
Wuala should clearly explain that you start with 1 month of presumed 10% online time and to be patient as your online percentage will take about 3 days of 100% online time to reach the required 17%.
This had me frusturated as I quept checking my online percentage every several hours.
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This is one of the best points
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Don't disable PG, just right-click on the blocked IP (I think it's named "ETH...") and then click on "allow permanently"
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As Wuala is hosted on the ETH-Zurich Servers (nothing "evil" about that, which is why I have uninstalled PeerGuardian a long time ago...) this might be a possible cause... BUT it is already quite well explained in the FAQ - just take a look in there!
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What I was trying to say was that since my online time showed 10%, I was thinking that there was something wrong with my connection. I only found out later that you start with one month of 10% presumed online time.
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