Help get this topic noticed by sharing it on Twitter, Facebook, or email.
I’m violated

FORCE: I invested $1,500 to sponsor a Lemon device production?!?

Lucky Force first adopters guys. Please get vocal, say metoo. AKAI requested feedback from us to move forward!

AKAI guys, please listen/

I admit, it's my fault it took me more than return-to-store time to figure out that my unit does not work even at (limited) designed functionality. Audio recording into a track from external synth or guitar does not work for me. I can hear sound right, record on midi track, record audio on sampler, but not audio track. Multi-sampled recording does not work for my unit neither. Force makes ground hiss when touching encoders (connected to a properly grounded, dedicated power line thru $200 Furman). First I was (obviously) thinking I am so dumb cannot comprehend how it works (normal). But after lotsa RTFM research and all the YouTube watching (and not enough Akai tutorials) I conclude it's my unit fault. Probably a "testing device" that I was excited to buy on a first day it showed up in Guitar Center.

I feel _way down_ that have to send my $1.5K device that NEVER worked to FIX (meaning it will be thrown and bitten up thru shipment and someone will open and solder it?!?!?!). I hope Akai will send me a new, fully functional unit I paid for. I was precocious enough to get GC protection plan, so can hammer down the Force and give it back to store, but I want Akai do the right thing. (of course I expected new thing to break when i use it heavily. It a new product so paid extra protection, but did not expect it not-to-work and not being developed over 3 months).

Lets face it, by the time you realize that Force has no Song mode, No export, No computer mode, etc you may also find your unit not even working properly. Only vague promises for an Ableton Live Mode, which we do not even know _how_ will be implemented and more over _WHEN_? 3 month out and only (useless) Splice "update", that FORCEs you to spend more money? Not even own MPC software provided for free to make your own sound pack. You should pick wav one by one to import and export your work with 20 seconds clips? Far from "Music Production/DJ Performance System".

"Redefine your expectations" - I did.

I set the topic as PRAISE, because can only applaud Akai taking advantage of us, Indie musicians (paying money that most of us cannot afford), featuring under-developed hardware (we all received "testing units"), never-developed software (zero provided) and over-promoted, no-roadmap features, we only hoped to get.

I am not mad. I am furious! I do love the lights Force makes in my studio at night. Just want little more than that sooner. Wish the promised features get real and hardware to work as advertised.

AKAI, please turn our WORST experience into something more matching to bright advertisement of the product. I don't want to be forced to complain to Better Business Bureau. We just want to make music. We can tolerate and wait, but being violated ☮️

Still yours,
Sam.

P.S. I am new to AKAI world but not new to this forum. I was happy crawling thru FORCE until finally found my device is not working. My 3 other posts for past months:

1. On my "testing unit" MIDI over USB worked initially. That got "fixed" in 3.02. Eliza of Akai said it never meant to work, but it's a great feature to have. Don't you think? http://gsfn.us/t/557nw

2. The current issue I have with Audio recording. Which means it will take weeks of wait for uncertain results. Day passed, I did not even received email with return label. Hope for the reply and quick turn around. http://gsfn.us/t/558t0

3. No Software or Extensions included? http://gsfn.us/t/556ki

Nick of Akai WANTS OUR FEEDBACK there - please provide you say, guys!
This topic is no longer open for comments or replies.
  • Well said! In this NAMM video that showed the Force working with Ableton Andy Mac said that it will be coming in March, it’s now May and there is still no sogn of it or any word from Akai telling is when to expect it either!

    https://youtu.be/Kz0jcf0fy5s
    • All million and one YT vids from NAMM .... boy, they fed our imagination good! We all like, - Hallelujah! It's happening, standalone! :) And we started dreaming of all the possibilities and features ..... WORKING ---- not even close!

      They got us good! It it was $300 fundraising I would keep imagining, but for $1.5K?!?!?!

      I vividly remember "we want to make best tool of it all" said one employee .... I believed. As you said, I also remember in one vid they said March ... in other vid I heard April..... But regardless what they said (lied) reality its not in May and even worse - may never.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Word good bro I feel the Same i just want to make dope dubstep and have a fully functional unit like they said or advertised it to be. I'm coming from the the world of only using Native Instruments using the maschine studio and the Tracktor S8 to finish up My projects . i wanted akai to take that place from start to finish . no lap top or computer or sounded good but its looks like they dont care or there dragging there feet on something that was guaranteed and promised . it kinda feels like a Ponzi scheme
    • Gave back my Maschine MK3, because too much hip-hop oriented and too much on their own when it comes to run under Ableton. Was hoping Ableton would make Push 3, so got Push 2 finally after years of deciding on my main controller. Push 2 went back to store once i got exciting leaks about upcoming Force.... it's about a year now I torture myself and thinking of how much cool tracks i was missing not sticking to Maschine or Push. At least those are solid working :)
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • lol
    Before you buy try ... ;)
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • 1
    The Try Buy thing here is BS.

    As a dev of 20+ years, this is BS. You advertised things that do not exist and we are beta testers.

    I was so excited to get this and then my developer mind started going through all the non implementations, bugs, missing features upon first use.

    Yes, I was freaking beta testing while following along with the docs.

    Not having the DAW with a standalone, are you serious! You are shoving Splice and Ableton down our throats and you won't even give us stuff to make our own FREE packs and setup Patterns.

    Yes, Patterns, wow that would be great to setup in the DAW but, nope, more money grabs on the beta testers.

    I held this post but now that it's May and I bought this in Jan, I am a dev, either you totally planned this out or you are not being transparent enough to say you are having unforeseen problems.

    Peace,
    Mike
    • This is what I am thinking Mike, its likely "planned operation" one smart big wig came out with. I am also dev (too few decades to mention lol).

      I just this fat dude running around companies with "smart strategies", collecting stock and such. He figures, let throw out couple thousand units. We save on PV, those poor music dudes with figure out all the issue and carefully file it. We just "prioritize" the list of bugs and most demanded features at our time and expense .....

      But here is the mid finger to the Akai big-wig decided on filthy advertisement strategy - he will NOT get his stock paying off. The earning from Force are as good as dinosaur sht! All first users found its a lemon early enough returned to store. Few stuck with it, punished for "trust" AKAI does not deserve. New users? Force boxes collecting dust on my local store already, just saw yesterday.

      Exactly as you said Mike. In case of "unforeseen" difficulties AKAI would do anything to keep customer tolerating meanwhile instead of watching great idea dies before gets off the ground.

      How much exactly would it cost them to give their DAW for the purpose of making own pack while you cannot do nothing else? What's the big deal NOT giving bulk of packs - "they will be happy with 4"? (but wait, I know the reason. Same dude decided with putting 16Gb of memory into 2019 device?!?!?! my refrigerator has more memory)

      Sounds like all well planned strategy. Minimize on anything starting from hardware and its testing with 16Gb memory (providing an extra HDD hole that you cannot stream from). From that you get 8 synths per track limitation, always popping up "no-memory" and excuse to 34 min of audio per project (no counting space eaten by undo, your fault, play guitar better on one shot!) and 20 sec clip export ..... 20 sec?!?!?! I can last longer in my age you know Akai :P LMAO

      ..... solidarity with AKAI developers who gotta eat (so as NI, Arturia, IK all whos management does that shit), always calms me down a bit. They should not work their ass off for their talent distributed thru Torrentz. While fat marketeer grazing on cherries from the pie. I play my music only on software I bought, but I make my money as hard.
    • Damn, I try to be a little professional but man you just said what is on my mind.

      That fing advertisement got me hardcore and that it will never again. I fell for the Fat Man bait, hope your vacations go swimmingly as all these 1500$ you got months ago have already been emptied out of the drink glasses.

      Right but, 1500$ for a lie (wait, have patience you say, bullshit), we should just take sitting down right?

      4 months, 1 Firmware update for Splice, we are not idiots! We are more adults that have 1500$ to BURN.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • 1
    Akai clearly doesn’t give a sh!?. They’re probably thinking about how they will do the same thing to FL Studio users... I bought the Force the day it came out- sold my OT MKii to get it; BIG mistake!
    NOW, we’re gonna get some cleverly thought out response from Akai to this thread- (starting to think they hired a politician to write them)
    It’s easy for them to say “be patient “; the didn’t spend their own money for this POS. I’m not gonna get into what I do for a living, but let’s just say I’m in a position to lead a lot of people to make buying decisions on electronic music production gear. I can no longer in good conscious include Akai, and for years they were typically the first is recommend.
    Way to go Akai
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • Akai has been riding on the success of the original MPCs for way too long. Seems like every year now they run a bunch of advert campaigns for their new machines (w/ prototypes at NAMM that all the creators hype up as well). Then they take people's money with a promise to deliver a currently unfinished product in the future. Once they have people's money, there isn't as much incentive to finish the product so that it actually functions properly. Similar to how Big Baller Brand charged people 500 dollars up front for "top of the line" shoes, then took 6 months to deliver a K-Mart quality product.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • 2
    I will never purchase AKAI hardware again if this doesn't get resolved and I will use every chance I get to socialize this thread and my asshole statements.

    I have worked/developed with Bitwig Ableton Push and on NI Maschine stuff, I get this world, but AKAI, you can only do this so long in the internet world.

    This anger today could have been avoided but AKAI that million dollar company is insulated and refuses to tell us investors what the heck is going on with our invested money.

    Yeah, "The Customer is Always Right". yup
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • 1
    For what it's worth, believing that Akai would have delivered at least on the Ableton Integration, means I kept my unit too long to return.

    So I am the non youtube dumbass that kept it too long.

    You see all the other youtubers said it sucks, Akai is money grabbing, it doesn't work, it doesn't have simple MIDI implementation, or you have a USB 3 cord that you cannot use for MIDI!

    But, you can use that WIFI card to gobble up bandwidth and hit our partners that basically have automated sound design and puke outs for this massive kits they sell.

    You see Akai, I know you are reading this, the people that actually trusted you are here saying you are liars. How much more rope do you think you have?
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • Mines been in the box for a month... shouldn’t returned when I had the chance
    • you probably meant "should've". Me too. I did not expected it that bad honestly. Was thinking if I start whining and return my thing, AKAI will "count" as Force is not popular and halt any development on it. With that I did not want betray my fellow mind-alike musicians .... but well this happened anyways.

      This is no whining at point. We did due diligence from our side, paid/waited/tolerated and got a finger in return.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • I actually kept mine because I love it if it worked as ADVERTISED.

    I am in the process of making an app that basically does the same things, so I thought wow this is great, I love clip launchers, it's the way I work.

    I play guitar, so I was like right on, easy mixing and loop recording, I had many use cases, this was not fan boy lust.

    ... Which makes it even more depressing.
    • view 1 more comment
    • In fact, this is the first Akai purchase I have ever made in my life.

      Usually a Roland / Korg guy in the past.
    • Mine too .... Moog and Korg..... Wait I got last year Akai LPD8 Wireless from Sweetwater for $38 :D Not using it much. Same confusion again, it is too big to what looked at the picture. 4X size and volume of OP-Z, so i play that one. And how good device can fall 1/4 of original price? same over-advertisement? .... but wait again, I still have M-Box two, just realized AKAI Corp owns it all with numark, alesis, denon .... Probably same fat-dude making acquisition decisions as well, when his glass becomes empty, and collects on stock plays LMAO
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • Akai, I vented, but Sam sums it up here with plain English.

    "This is no whining at point. We did due diligence from our side, paid/waited/tolerated and got a finger in return. "

    >>> paid -> waited -> tolerated -> and got a finger in return

    Remember this when you want to paint us customers as numbers, and the cliche,

    Stand in our shoes right now, right here. How many people in this thread 10? 15,000$, 5? 7,500$.

    This is real money when the voices add up, we were the nice polite ones.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • Hey Sam,

    Thanks for posting!

    I'm sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your Force. From your description, it seems like a few of the issues you are experiencing are hardware related. Warranty and non-warranty claims are not handled here on the forum but I've emailed you directly with further instructions regarding this.

    There is a lot of anticipation for forthcoming feature updates for the Force. I can relate to many of the points you have raised and always relay the community's feedback directly to our development team for consideration. We appreciate the passion you all have for the product and want to implement your requests as much as possible. Think about the MPC X/Live and how they are very different machines today then when first released. Those updates were built on the community's feedback. So your input goes a long way, we just all need to exercise a little patience.

    I've forwarded these comments to the Akai team but feel free to submit them as well:

    MPC - Submit a Feature Request

    Thanks for your feedback!
    • view 1 more comment
    • Still have unstable midi clock outputting from the MPXC and Live and also Still no multi-timbral midi input into the MPC line. Lots of neat features like VST and ducking, but its all pointless if you want to send more than one midi track into the device.. Please don't assure folks with Force's that its all rainbows in MPC land. Still waiting for solid time clock. I connect midi from MPCX to Behringer DeepMind 12 and in the ARP menu I can watch the tempo received fluctuate. This creates havoc when recording tracks into Studio One and nothing fits into the beats and bars properly. may2019
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • I’m anry
    Even if you take this device AS IT IS without taking in account all advertised features which are not implemented yet. I even don't care that much about sampling external sources and doing much with samples except for some background stuff. Even the whole PC integration thing is not that important to me:

    All I wanted is a solid clip-based MIDI sequencer as the heart of my hardware setup. I just want to record and fire MIDI clips, use the arp and the encoders and having some very basic sample playback functionality.

    But not even THAT is functional. There are bugs and usability fuckups everywhere in the workflow.

    Overall, this whole thing feels so VERY beta. I pre-ordered the Force a few days after it was possible. I'd never buy this stuff after even 15 minutes of testing in the store.

    At the moment I can't imagine that any of your users is happy. The whole device feels like it's made of absolute beginners without a clue of music making who are happy with using the pre-loaded samples or the demo projects. But for that target audience, the price must drop at least 1k$.
    • Again, more eloquent than I.

      I used the Albeton integration as an example but what you said is exactly what I wanted, a central MIDI controller connected to a DAW.

      But the UX workflow is horrid. To be had I won't post anymore but last night I was working on something and then all the sudden it reset the whole friggin rack.

      Just like a new project command or something, man if you were playing live, hahaha! Akai would love having their logo on that concert right!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Absolutely agree with all said here

    The lacks, bugs and broken promises are settimg the reputation of Akai under the sea....

    The splice update seems a bad joke.... I dont care a sht splice!

    Not even ableton integration.... I dont have that software

    Unless we have an important update, it will reach the titanic....

    Come on Akai, wake up!

    Sorty for Eliza and Mike, trying to face this disaster
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • 1
    “MAY THE FORTH BE WITH YOU”

    Here is my wrap-up on behalf of all the community here (pun intended hehe).

    Seriously, by the May 04th, 2019 we would like to hear from AKAI EXECS on the roadmap delivery and answer to the below must-haves. I hear you Eliza, you are doing your best communicating our feedback to “development team”. This time we like our feedback escalated and to be heard by Management and Executive teams. We don’t want more stress on software developers who will be forced to make more bugs and rush updates. We want AKAI as a Corporate to give a sound answer on Force future and accepting it is DOA at this point.

    1. Song Mode. At least to be able to play project thru all the rows. Fancy/more control on song construct is good too. Run thru all the project without looping is needed ASAP.

    2. Project Export for Audio/Midi. At least exporting whole project into one Wav. Piece-mill for individual WAV/MIDI stems and Live project is good. At least a single file rendering (so we mute tracks) is needed ASAP with next update.

    3. Ableton integration, including WHEN (tangible timeframe, not “soon/future”) and HOW. Assuming we trust the advertisement that Live flow will be covered, but how? Bring the light on two basic features: 1. matching functionality to Push2 WRT control surface 2. Will we get a display of an Ableton Device on Force screen like on Push2 (or it’s gonna be a dummy midi controller like $100 toy?)

    4. What non-Ableton users will get in Computer mode? Will Force serve as a decent midi controller for other DAWs? Is yes, can it assign midi to pads and Force encoders?

    5. In computer mode will Force operate as a classic USB Audio Interface for 2 available slots? Will AKAI provide ASIO driver? Can Force be competitive with market comparables WRT latency (Maschine, Focusrite, Arturia)?

    6. Class Complain, meaning integration with iPad for example. Will I be able to connect Force -> USB -> Lightening -> iPad. So can run AKAI’s iMPC mobile app with AKAI Force midi (again one USB cable, no extra audio/midi interface in between)

    7. MIDI USB connection. Same way as currently Force supports 5-din Input/Output A allow MIDI to go in/out thru USB. (I know it is possible because it was working GREATLY on my unit. I connected Force and Moog Subsequent 37CV over one USB cable. I have private vid it worked, but it was “fixed” with 3.02 update)

    8. Audio track length limitation. 34 minutes does not make sense when you seriously use it to play guitar, synth or maybe record DJ mix in. At least for the projects hosted on internal add-on HDD/SSD.

    9. Disk audio streaming and MIDI pattern import/export. Solid sequencer flow with file exchange.

    10. User Pack builder. MPC Live/X user got free MPC2 software. Why Force was excluded from give away? It is in the same price range (not cheaper MPC controller). I know you probably say the DAW is 4x4 pads oriented, will be confusing/incomplete with Force. But we do need the pack Expansion Builder piece of it. Force users have better confusions to deal with. Free software to ramp up with Force meanwhile will be a huge help.

    11. Force comes with 4 extensions included, more and free will be cool. Bigger question that Force is targeting the wider range of musicians and (even paid) extension should cover genres outside AKAI traditional Hip-Hop family (that applies to the expanding scale modes, etc). Including other EDM/Electronic and Song-Writing/Acoustic applications. My wife asked if I can play her favorite Schubert tune on “that expensive thingy”? Nope, cannot find decent piano sound even on the paid packs :)

    To wrap up, we want Executive Roadmap and at least some of the Management/Marketing team answers. Not to every fine feature request we might have, but on the crucial must-haves (song mode, audio/midi export/import, software/packs, ableton/computer mode). On the main features that AKAI made impression to deliver, matching to the bigger scale impact that Force meant to make.

    Eliza, Nick D. please note I skip the nice-to-have requests and overall instability issues. The whole Force project is at major risk due to over-advertisement and no roadmap.

    Do you think I want to get rid of the sucker? :) I just want it to work and make my happy music with it!

    ☮️ Peace very much! ☮️
    • view 1 more comment
    • @klaustrophil alright, I will rephrase on behalf who joins the demand and still wants the device to work, exactly as you said - few things, but solid. THIS IS the minimum set of must fix issues. Without which the device is good as dead.

      If you as a user did not read the above as must-have list, than I phrased/scooped it wrong. I can adjust and remove more wish-to-have like items (like USB midi, midi import/export), but having a simple song mode (play thru) and ability to export a single wav file as a result of your work, I think you agree as a must.

      Lacking of supporting software and Zero computer mode is not right at this point. I would say Ableton/midi integration can wait (until developed and tested by AKAI), but if you cannot make any user pack and get into device efficiently you stuck with 4 packs OR HAVE TO BUY more sht, before device even works to the spec. Do you agree this is not a good time for us jumping buying MPC extensions and entertain that Splice nonsense (on a device that can barely fit anything).

      I am open to downsize the must-haves of course, but the point is - the product is nowhere with too many bugs, only promised features and no roadmap or bigger scale picture when it turns to "device which does a few things very well".
    • ... p.s. I found I cannot edit the above comment that has a reply on it already. Feel free to list your must-haves or say what's not important to you. Whatever we feel or say, we should not keep it silent, keeping anger. AKAI does want the feedback. Main feedback - stop bullshit with bright future, give decent ones that work solid. We don't want AKAI to think all is warm and fuzzy, just few bugs here and there..... and than they will halt all the production/development because product brings no money. They should know why now.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • I'll tell you what, Akai got what they wanted.

    I paid 1500$ for their PR Hype, I am a dev myself and feel like an idiot for not seeing it.

    The thing that is different is I learn, I just learned Akai is not a company I trust with my money.

    So what I am good at in life, cut my losses and move on. I watched email after email fly through my email client bitching about the Force for the last 2-3 months. (3.0.2 bricked)

    Akai, you won, you got my money and in May I wave the white flag, I spent one day bitching, that is it.

    If anybody ever asks me about Akai, :) They get the truth.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • I still can't get over the fact this box doesn't come with a Song Mode already built-in! Which now makes me think, the Product Managers behind Force probably didn't have its roadmap figured out properly and we are now royally screwed. The fact that their community managers are encouraging us to "speak up" means internally they already tried and didn't get through the thick skulls of these product managers.

    This will be my last time buying Akai - now that there are so many options available out there. I have an Octatrack MKii, Maschine Studio and Toraiz SP16 - and I thought of simplifying my setup with Force. So glad I haven't gotten rid of them yet.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • For those that want to return but are beyond the time limit provided by your retailer:
    Ask for a manager. Make sure to let them know the Akai has acted fraudulently by advertising and promising features and workflow that do not exist. They should extend the return window based on this. Worked for me
    J
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • lol that’s for sure not the peaceful way lol

    What I like guys is that Sam was coming a bit calm and was putting his critics a bit clear together.
    Thanks for that ;)
    The general problem is that the main functionality to using Abelton Live is not done, that’s for sure.
    Some parts may could be done in a bit indirect way like export of the sequence for example.
    Clear is that mostly all music tools are buggy in the beginning and yes you are a bit an beta tester.
    But it is a good project and not comparable with other music tools outside. And yes it needs updates that’s for sure but we are not all stupid customers. We have the possibility not to buy a product which is not working for me ... on the end with or without peace, you need to face your responsibility for your action to buy.
    I am also an owner of the MPC hardware and it took time to get it better. I will never by equipment what I haven’t tested that’s for sure ...
    The power is with you lol

    Cheers
    Michael
    • view 1 more comment
    • Well I decided to go that way with a risk. I am also a owner of a lot of hardware and software gear which is not perfect. But I don’t like and need to laugh about people that their life is based on stupid consuming without any responsibility. I think it’s important to find solutions as to create some childish shit-storm.
      As I pointed out before constructive criticism is the way to make changes happen but sorry to tell all of us you have spent $1500.- and you need lots of time to find out that simple bugs I am sorry that’s funny lol
      If I buy something I am aware of bugs in the first place that’s a simple point everywhere ... lol
      Face the reality lol
      I have up to 4weeks to bring that equipment back to the retailer ...
      But the AKAI support of the MPC is good and roughly every 3-4 month a update is coming lol
      Have fun in reality and luck in the future ... if you buy equipment read news groups etc
    • Good laugh is only thing we got LMAO I agree Mikel, we just have to keep pushing, reminding AKAI, we are still there and not everyone returned their units. Hoping for the best idea behind the Force and want for it indeed to work. We all know it's very ambitious, not easy to iron, unless the process goes on and on. I knew by the 45th day (when was able to return it to Guitar Center), my must-fix issues fixes are not coming soon. Still did not return it, understanding if everyone does that - AKAI just halts the baby project. (I still have lots to do with Force as it is and love the fckr! but don't tell AKAI I said that :P LOL).

      Everyone with experience knows you either take the burden of beta testing or wait couple years. I was waiting with Push for too many years (while being hardcore Ableton). After a while I realized just missing my good music could have made better. So finally got mint and fully-debugged Push 2 last Xmas. But as soon the leak picture of Force came out, returned it and pulled the trigger on the Unknown Force. Knowing it's not gonna be easy, also purchased protection plan from Guitar Center too, hehe :D I am happy that some of us are full of enthusiasm still as well not just sitting on their angers or worse, keep the tongues deep in butts. Instead SHARE what's important, so AKAI can prioritize and deliver.

      Having said all that lack of song-mode, and at least simple export is too annoying. Turns many users off, before they develop a taste for device. Also full brick mode in Computer Mode does not help. Just providing free MPC software would be huge help, let build own pack and start using Force somehow. Hope AKAI makes these few low efforts thing ASAP. Cheers!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • 1
    MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!

    (this is my list as of May 4th, in shorter readable format, prioritized (submitted to AKAI feature request as well). If you guys have more/better suggestions, don't keep silence - express, to help pushing Force to better state. We do keep it and want to be best Interstellar looking and functioning device of the future! The lamps are so nice :) ).

    Showstopper / Must-have:
    1. Song mode (play thru all project rows, loop one, loop all)
    2. Full track and stem export (render song to WAV file onto drive/SD card)

    Low hanging fruit / Positive user experience:
    3. Supply MPC software free or deep discounted (like to MPC X/Live users)
    4. Free User extension pack Builder (few more packs for Force owners)

    Critical to bridge with Mac/PC
    5. Computer mode (Ableton and/or midi controller mode to use with DAW)
    6. Force to act as an audio interface when connected to Mac/PC

    Shortened top features wish-list:
    7. Avoid 34 min project audio length limitation, fix low memory with Undo
    8. Midi pattern import/export file exchange
    9. Enable Midi over USB (like 5-din ports for external hardware)
    10. Class Complaint (connect to iPad thru Force USB hub for Midi in/out)

    ☮️ TNX! ☮️
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • personally number 3 or 4 is not a priority for me, I’d rather see disk streaming and the ability to send multiple streams of audio & midi over USB
    • view 2 more comments
    • I sample my own sounds, and construct own kits for drums only. The point I don’t want to build same kit for every project picking wav files one by one every time. Maybe I could reuse project kits and save kits you did on Force, but having same nice looking kits (extensions) as came with Force, but with your very own samples will be great.
    • Yes I don the same I walk around with my Tascam recoder or I'll go crates digging at the local Record shop Looking for the 100 year old records
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Hi Sam and Akai

    I add some Critical needs to the Sam`s List

    _Posibility to copy-paste-move archives and folders between internal storage, hdd ssd SD etc.... Today, you cannot do that standalone, and you cannot backup files in the internal storage
    _drum tracks or instrument tracks dont have MIDI output, which would be nice to control other devices MEANWHILE the internal one. not only midi tracks
    _posibility to move tracks in different possitions. Organize yourself. Today, if you like to have drums on the left, and you forgot making one drum track, you have to create on the right
    _when you are in Step seq mode, and you shift-stepseq, you cannot change the playable area, i mean, A01, A02, A03.... but you can only in NOTE mode. it should be also that option in STEPSEQ mode

    ABSOLUTELY-FUNDAMENTAL-I-DONT-UNDERSTAND-WHY-ARE-NOT-AVAILABLE-NOW-WHAT-WERE-YOU-THINKING-AKAI
    _Free included software
    _organize files
    _row duration, as in modstep ipad app, as in korg gadget....
    _Stem export
    _Midi.usb

    By the way, i dont need Splice not even Ableton....
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • I have a entire list if complaints. Im not here to bash Akai but rather find ways to work towards solution as I have 3k invested din these boxes right now. I have 2 of them.
    My biggest concern right now isnt song mode or export or anything that doesn't already exist in the box.

    The unit was advertised as a live performance machine that does Audio clip time warping. I produce All of my tracks in Ableton and I export stems and then rebuild a "live" version on the Force. This ultimately works as expected until I change tempo. My usual tempo is between 118-123. The time stretching algo in this unit is does a poor job which makes this unit unusable as a live device. If I import 120BPM loops (These are straight drum loops, no kick, no swing) . And I increase tempo by 3 BPM, the timing starts to fall apart. At 5 BPM is really noticeable.
    I'm invested so I need a solution

    Things to point out.
    Im not analyzing using the akai. I manually enter the exact tempo on each clip.

    Processing power:
    We have I pad apps now that can do this without problem so this isnt a issue of resource as Akai has already limited what you can do with the box. (8 audio track)
    I'm not using any internal synths. At any given time Im at most running 8- 8 bar audio loops. Usually in drum groups. Which brings me to my next point.

    Is the algo coded poorly? I use all my drum loops in drum group with warp. Is the time stretch algo in drum groups the same as audio tracks or is defaulting to a lower quality one? Is this fixable?

    If the algo is what it is and cant be made better..
    Is it possible to add a pitch mode where when we change tempo and it just pitches the audio up or down to keep it in time? Id rather deal with key changes than bad timing.

    Im not even commenting on the quality, Im commenting on timing alone. at 5 bpm increments the timing is completely loose. Lets not even bring up the flanging..

    Anyone else having similar experience?
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • > Im not here to bash Akai but rather find ways to work towards solution

    Well you might want to take note, that in the last thread about the Force Akai has said through their community moderator that they will not release any information on this forum to it's users that have paid 1500$ for a lemon device.

    Yes, my unit sucks with crashing, glitches, resetting, bpm flanging,

    The Force is a Lemon device due to software and hardware implementation and current frozen firm ware. It's a lemon because Akai has our money and now have told us to STFU and wait.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • Lol I know right?! They watch this forum enough to know when to say they won’t say anything here lmfao
    Cray cray!!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • If your not going to say anything; DONT say anything
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited

  • I do know that I know nothing.

    What I do know is that Akai should have said 1500$ to "invest" in features that might work in 6 months.

    There are real developers here that know just because you make a video of software doesn't mean the actual software works.

    I could make plenty of videos of my apps that show them "Working!", but I strategically through that video only showed things that didn't crash. I would also edit out all the crashes from the alpha software.

    I want this to work and use it in my projects. I don't understand why people use so many LOLs when we are talking about real money with a lot of musicians.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • lol
    Why you are buying something if you not knowing if it works?
    You would buy a car like that?
    lol
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • I'm new to this forum but have ventured on a few others. I'm frustrated as many others are. I sent Akai customer service a kind message: Akai, you suck. I then sold my Akai Force on Reverb. It would be great to buy one again in a couple of years when all promised content is valid..........it should only take two years......right?
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • @J-Fly you should not be selling Force on Reverb. You should have requested a full money back, even after 30 or 45 days. The features announced for Force are simply NOT THERE. Not process of fixing, completing anything anytime soon.

    None of the seller will refuse to accept it and send back to Akai. I asked mine already and I have this option open.

    Just giving AKAI a chance to deliver on promised functionality as many others here, who can tolerate meanwhile.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Now I tried giving it back I bought my force with American Musical Suppply they not taking it back well I'm going try akia maybe they will take it back what you guys think
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned sad, anxious, confused, frustrated kidding, amused, unsure, silly

  • $1500 a music gear that can't export no midi no stems no wav nor ALS options .. no MPC Software for DAW integration, no Ableton Midi Control, no Song mode......

    Are you serious !!!!!

    For a box advertised as a production platform, that can't let you Arrange / mix / master to finish your tracks on a PC/MAC, it's a joke !!!

    I call this an "experimental box" or a "prototype product".... collecting dust on my desk. In no mean a production device for pros.

    The main issue is that it cost +$1500.... hard earned money !

    I'm really upset, cause I can see that the first priority Firmware update was to activate splice.com on Force.... to monazite further....

    Everyone understood that's a very bad strategy for AKAI, especially as they are not communicating on the issue officially. Negating that there is an issue...

    Believe me it's a huge commercial mistake !

    So what's next ?

    Option 1 : Many quick FW fixes, and additions, free packs as a sign of gratitude for the early adopters, for the pain... You'll be forgiven, everyone can understand mistakes ....

    Option 2 : No communication, continuous arrogant attitude, throwing one small update in July and "bye ! see you next time, in 4 months... " aka "slap on the face, faithful customers".

    In this case, prepare for the bad buzz that goes beyond the Force or MPC line, (may costs you money and reputation), that will be really deserved.

    Hope we'lll end up on Option 1, for you, for us, the music producers.

    A very pissed off customer !!!!!
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • I don't work for Akai or Akai's parent company InMusic (the many- headed Hydra of pro audio companies) and I don't really have any expertise in anything. Though I'd like to suggest that it's probably no coincidence that Denon DJ (also a member of the InMusic family) customers are having eerily similar gripes and problems with recent Denon DJ gear (eg. Prime ecosystem stuff like the sc-5000, Prime 4, etc) .


    Over on the Denondj forum, it's been a roller coaster ride of waiting for firmware updates to fix some random but important basic features (and/or make good on various stated and implied promises for features and workflow) then when a single update arrives ridiculously 'late', it barely addressed half of the major issues/gripes...and was followed a day or two later by a 'huge' announcement that Denon DJ is working out streaming deals with Beatport and SoundCloud etc.


    From personal experience and ancedotal reports, it seems like the actual working employees at Denon DJ are working beyond the amount they should be, forced to wear multiple hats outside their job descriptions, all while working collectively under an ominous cloud of potential termination (as a group, Ive been told by two different though unverifiable sources). Shockingly I suspect directives from on high are more interested in the usual corporate stuff rather than creating totally dope/fantastic/sick/amazing gear.


    And sure capitalism is capitalism. But check out InSound (are they a force for good or evil? Heh 'force') and if you actually know something about business and product management and/or upper management nefariousness , share what you find. The freemarket giveth, and the invisible hand taketh away (or the Illuminati, which ever) ...


    I've had nothing but excellent interactions with Akai Pro and Denon DJ employees. But if I ran into an InSound middle management dude at 3am in a dark alleyway, I would - with a song in my heart - thoughtfully and respectfully begin offering my helpful critiques at length and ad nauseum (and with so many run on sentences) to the point that he'd wish I would have just mugged him.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • We asked for option 1 a lot.. crickets. It appears option 2 is the more likely path. Matt_positive makes some useful anecdotal input about Denon that rings true for Akai.

    The thing that gets me thinking is the ‘why’ question. In business, the reasons I can think of why you would not switch to option 1 based on all the repetitional and longer term profitability is if:
    I) there is a problem with key personnel. They can’t recruit more Force developers because there is a skills shortage. I would guess improbable, but we do know that Force and MPC development is done by the same individuals.
    II) there is a legal issue - eg Ableton decided to sue Akai for intellectual property violations. If this scenario were true, it would absolutely explain the silence while legal issues go through arbitration or action.
    III) The parent company is so low on cash that it can’t afford the additional cost of smaller releases/more bug fixes. With the large number of product releases, I would imagine this is the most likely, & that Akai is lacking cash after an expensive launch and marketing cycle.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. happy, confident, thankful, excited indifferent, undecided, unconcerned kidding, amused, unsure, silly sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Updated my unit to 3.0.2 and now no audio recording beyond 2 bars. I love the device but the software development has been seriously lacking....
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • 1
    Honestly, any lawyers here or legal firms willing to take this up for a class-action - I'd put my signature to it. It's astounding for a company like Akai to be so egregious and cavalier in its handling of this product and its rollout. I don't have a problem if they decided to abandon this product - just give me my full refund back on recall.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated indifferent, undecided, unconcerned

  • This reply was removed on 2019-06-10.
    see the change log
    • In the UK I’d day you have enough material to put it through a small claims court to return your devices and get your money back - I’d say even to the retailer without going through a court as certain capabilities are still pending to be delivered- and this outside of the returns period as false promise claim - also vote with your wallet - we got retailers that offer 180days return and warranty extensions for a very small fee I tend to use those for new products
  • This reply was removed on 2019-06-10.
    see the change log