alias

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  • Idea
  • Updated 1 week ago
  • Under Consideration
Please merge the discographies of a performer with multiple aliases. For example, Bonnie "Prince" Billy lists Will Oldham as one of his aliases but each alias has a different discography.
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rootsmusic

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Posted 8 years ago

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Zac, Official Rep

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This also gets tricky because somebody like Will Oldham may release an album under his name which has a very different feel than his Bonnie "Prince" Willie albums.

We try to honor the artist's wishes if they choose to record as aliases and not tie their discographies together.

Please note, this rule does not apply to Prince or P.Diddy/Puff Daddy/Diddy/Sean Combs/Diddy Dirty Money or Garth Brooks/Chris Gaines for some reason.
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rootsmusic

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Zac, the exceptions to your "rule" points out its flaw! The purpose of your database is to catalog ALL albums produced by an artist. Whether an artist chose to be billed as John Fogerty a.k.a. The Blue Ridge Rangers shouldn't affect his discography. What about artists who don't change their name (e.g. Neil Young) despite being musical chameleons and recording albums that differ completely in feel and genre? Why split the discography for Bonnie "Prince" Billy but not for the single-named Prince (and his aliases)?
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Zac, Official Rep

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We're working on it. Thanks for your persistence.
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rootsmusic

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Zac, please update the status of my idea topic then.
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rootsmusic

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Zac, sorry to report that I've confused your improved algorithm.  I typed "Palace", and the last artist result in type-ahead search isn't an exact match.  I know that it's matching an alias, but aliases are less relevant than exact matches.  There are more than three exact matches with discographies that should be most relevant.

But to me, your improved algorithm is confused by aliases that should have been merged.  Tom Erlewine also disagrees with you in writing: "After his stints performing as Palace, Palace Songs, Palace Brothers, and under his own name throughout the '90s, by the end of the decade Will Oldham seemed to finally settle on the Bonnie 'Prince' Billy moniker as the main outlet for his work.  Regardless of the name he used to release his music or the musicians supporting him, Oldham's style remained largely the same".
(Edited)
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Zac, Official Rep

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Hey Rootsmusic,
We spent a good deal of time trying to balance bands/artists that have aliases vs. exact matches.  In this instance, it is behaving as we hoped it would.

Although you are correct, that there are two bands named Palace that have released albums, neither of them were as popular or well-known as Palace alias Will Oldham.  As a user, I might be looking for the individual known as Dollar Brand OR Abdullah Ibrahim, by Miley Cyrus OR Hannah Montana, or Palace OR Will Oldham, but I may not be exactly sure which moniker the artist was using at any given time.

Since Will Oldham is tied to Palace and has enough editorial factors like popularity, artistic value and historical importance, enough factual information like albums in his discography, and enough user input including users who are "Following" this artist, He nudges his way into the list at #3.

Ultimately our goal with search is to give users what we're predicting that they are looking for, and usually that is the exact string, but due to the oddball nature of musicians changing their names and performing under aliases, we take some intuitive steps to try to offer a "Did you mean...?" result as one of the options.

You'll notice that if you click through to the full search results, the other Palace bands appear as artists 5 and 6 in the list, which indicates to me that these lesser-known bands are still readily available in the search results and that our intention to pepper appropriate aliases into the lists is working as designed.

No matter what, it is functioning better than the current live search (which was our initial goal):



and I honestly have no idea what is going on with the old search here:



Am I assuming that you would expect to see exact matches come back above popular aliases? 
(Edited)
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rootsmusic

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Yes Zac, exact matches with discographies should be most relevant.  The problem is caused by artists who aren't merged with their aliases.  Given this data problem, I understand that your search algorithm is trying to balance both.
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Zac, Official Rep

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It may or may not sway your opinion, but the pages for other bands named Palace (who have a discography) have a combined fewer than 10 page views from users over the past 6 months, whereas Will Oldham shows over 4,400 page views for his page.

It could be argued that since we are not showing these other Palace-named bands in the typeahead dropdown, nobody is visiting them, but this kind of data is what helps us determine whether an alias has the value to be boosted up by x-number of points over the next competitor.

In this case (to get into the data) Will Oldham ("also performed as Palace") has a search score of 2896 thanks to 36 bonus points for popularity and other data elements and the 1990s band Palace has a score of 2864 (with only 4 bonus-boosting points).

This was our logic based on the data we had at hand, and we're still tweaking it.
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Ome Hans

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Why are there separate entries for dollar brand and abdullah ibrahim when they ar ethe same person?

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
dollar brand - abdullah ibrahim.
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Dawn G.

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Hi Ome,

Because this artist performs under two names, we have kept those two names distinct. However, we added Abdullah Ibrahim as the primary name for Dollar Brand so the Dollar Brand discography should also appear in the Abdullah Ibrahim discography. The site may take a few days to update. Thanks for stopping by.
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rootsmusic

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Dawn, I don't see albums like "Duke Ellington Presents the Dollar Brand Trio" under the discography of Abdullah Ibrahim.
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Dawn G.

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I sent this to a senior editor. Thanks for the head's-up. :)
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M. Berry

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It would be helpful if all albums by Frank Black, Frank Black And The Catholics & Black Francis were on one page as they used to be. It's all the same guy. Thanks.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Frank Black / Black Francis.
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Dawn G.

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Hi M.,

Although they are the same guy, they are different names. At this time, we cannot combine them. Thanks for stopping by!
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M. Berry

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Terrible answer. That's like saying you can't turn on the tv because you can't find the remote. You CANNOT combine them? Really? You had them combined before, so why not now. I used to love this site but given the navigational issues created by the new format, I don't enjoy using this resource anymore. My main purpose for visiting in the past was to find out more about an artist I like. If somebody was new to Frank Black they'd never know about most of his solo albums. Yeah, it's mentioned in the overview but it's not really that clear that the albums would be listed seperately. Furthermore, this seperation isn't very well done. For example, under Frank Black, the mini album Svn Fngrs is listed but it's actually credited to Black Francis. I wouldn't even bother with this second post except that I have found may other similar complaints regarding other artists. I'm another long time user that will be back less and less. n
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Zac, Official Rep

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Hi there,
I agree that we should be showing the Black Francis albums under Frank Black's discography. This is something that we are working with our data delivery folks to enable.

To get very into the details, here is our request:


Issue:
If an album is attributed to Duke Ellington Orchestra, it does *not* appear under the discography for Duke Ellington.

Resolution:
If two names are connected with the Primary Name association, any album attributed to the one should also show up under the discography of the other.

Example (from the Association table):

AssociationID: MX0039848680
ID_1: MN0001795656 (nameid for Duke Ellington Orchestra)
ID_2: MN0000120323 (nameid for Duke Ellington)
AssociationType: MA0000000320 (Primary Name association

The data above should cause any album attributed to ID_1 (Duke Ellington Orchestra) to also appear under the discography for ID_2.


Unfortunately our data delivery engineering group is a small team working on dozens of projects at once (many of them not related to AllMusic) and we don't get as much of their development time as we would like. If I were king of the world, I would change their priorities, but nobody's elected me yet. ;-)

I would love to say this open issue is easily resolved, but some of the elements are out of our immediate control. That said, I am constantly pushing on this issue to get it resolved for you.

Thanks for your patience.
Zac
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rootsmusic

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Zac, your improved algorithm does first list the only exact match with a discography when I type in "Frank Black".  Then it lists other exact matches without discographies before listing Frank Black & the Catholics, which does have a discography.  Black Francis, which is an alias match, also has a discography.

I believe that most users search for discographies and few are searching for credits (without discographies).  So I'd expect credits to be listed behind Frank Black & the Catholics as well as Black Francis. What's the status of your open request to resolve this data problem?
(Edited)
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Zac, Official Rep

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We'll take a look to see if we can boost Frank Black's more popular aliases above the exact match artists that have lesser popularity. This should be acting just like the Palace example above.

Thanks.
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Camille Farah

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When searching about discography of a certain jazz artist, who have had credits as (solo) and as (with his multiple outfit) ex: Trio / Quartet / Quintet etc., why you don't show all his discography all-together, as long as he is the same artist, whether it's solo or a quintet or whatsoever? ex: Horace Silver Finger Poppin' and Horace Silver Blowin' The Blues Away should be in the same row in the Main Discography, while you separate them, it needs two searches to find them! and if me or any other person don't know initially that both albums are for Horace Silver as a leader and they are two albums of his complete Main Discography, me or any other person could easily go on with the knowledge that Main Horace Silver Discography is as you have showed it (without one of those album or without both of them) that's because I didn't search for Horace Silver Quintet, then I didn't search for Horace Silver Trio, then I didn't search for Horace Silver Chicken Soup or Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck etc. etc. I want to search one time for Horace Silver Main Discography and I pretend (it's my right) to find all his Main Discography as a leader or co-leader all-together, in the same page, because initially I don't know nothing, I count on you to inform me, while you are disinforming me, you are tricking me, yes that's the truth! It's right to indicate Quintet / Sextet / Trio etc. but in the same page as he is always the same, the leader! I can understand when separating Beatles from Paul McCartney but not Paul McCartney from Wings, Mahavishnu Orchestra from John McLaughlin, Jessica Lurie from Jessica Lurie Ensemble etc. etc. It should be a Logo (visible Logo) down the page or up the page or right or left saying: See Also John McLaughlin / See Also Wings / See Also Horace Silver Quintet etc. while in the Jazz scene, for me, it's not necessarily to say See Also Quintet or Quartet or Ensemble etc. as in jazz there are infinite variations from album to album (quartet then returning solo then returning trio then returning quartet etc.) while in rock scene there are a period of many years of Manfred Mann and then many other years of -continued- Manfred Mann's Earth Band... You can separate anything you like (even if I'm not convinced and I don't like!) but at least at least at least say See Also ... (Ensemble / Liberation Music Orchestra / New Power Generation / Quartet / Octet etc. etc.) as long as the performer is the same Leader and the same Primary Artist and to him belong "Main Credits"... How can I bear in mind that I should make other Searches to find all Main Discography and above all Why Should I? Why Should Wasting Time? I may accept wasting time, but I cannot accept Being Disinformed! especially in the Jazz Scene (does Keith Jarrett and Keith Jarrett Trio are "Different Artists" if the concept is Keith Jarrett? Please, do me a favor, please!) but I repeat: If it's for you so, then say See Also ... (Keith Jarrett Trio) at least... I have other issues but this one is the more "Paralyzing" because it's about "Disinforming instead of Informing".
I find, alternatively, similar problems in All Movie Guide (Rovi version) as prior to this Rovi version I used to do my Searches with, significantly, lesser time. Now it's nearer to a "Quiz Game" rather to a "Search For Informations" I have to know many things before doing my "Searchings" with you, while it is supposed to know from "You" those many things because initially I don't know nothing, otherwise Why Searching if I Already Know!!!

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
All Main Albums Of A Certain Act Not Always Shown In Main Discography Of That Certain Act.
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rootsmusic

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Not only fast, I'm impressed by the efficacy of how you've updated the primary name for Lady A with only a single "also know as" credit!  Next are The Chicks, who didn't change their name when their lead singer changed.
(Edited)