Allow Mac-style tabs

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  • Updated 3 years ago
  • Planned
Although I'm a Chrome lover I really don't like the tabs at all. Would be nice to make it an option at least!
Other than that I cannot complain! I'd definitely pay money for this! Good work!
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Edward

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  • pleased

Posted 6 years ago

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vmacintyre

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The Chrome-style tabs are in use because they are functional and the base code was there in the open-source Chrome code. Apple has not opened the code for Safari-style tabs. Although if enough people ask...
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JAH

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What about a Firefox-style? New Firefox 4 tabs (on top) are pretty cool... and opened I guess... but still in beta test.
Althrough the Terminal tabs (part of OSX) would be the best option for me !
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Seys Ryan

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Definitely like the drag tab out to make a separate window feature. If that can't be incorporated with a different visual style, I don't think it should be thrown away (at least keep it as an option).
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jcniemeyer

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chrome tabs are okay for me,especially because they're on top. safari-style tabs would be great if they'd look like the «tabs on top» featured in safari 4 beta.
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Fabio Romeo

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Plus, close should be on the left! I already said something to that effect elsewhere, but stil...
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@Tim Sullivan: in reality, in osx, there are no tabs! however, in osx, there already ARE proxy icons on the left. these are defined in apple's UI guidelines for developers. but, if you have a link regarding tabs in the osx developer guidelines, i am curious. i can't find one myself, however. i think your argument is flawed in you are comparing safari, a single piece of software solely for browsing web-pages, to the finder - which is focused on file management. similar, but still different UI needs.

(get satisfaction needs a better confirm post process - i promise NOT to hit the send button again when the browser gets stuck this time!)
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Derek Dunagan

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Safari and Terminal are "in OSX" and both put the close on the left, firmly re-establishing that the close-button-on-the-left design pattern should carry into tabbed applications. Most Mac software developers and development shops have carried this pattern on (e.g. TextMate, Transmit, Pathfinder). We're not just talking about Safari. There's Opera too who "gets it." Their Windows browser puts the close button on the right. Their Mac browser puts it on the left. Apps that start off on Windows/Linux are in the habit of ignoring OSX conventions (e.g. Firefox, Adobe Creative Suite, and yes: Chrome).
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Derek Dunagan

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Safari and Terminal are "in OSX" and both put the close on the left, firmly re-establishing that the close-button-on-the-left design pattern should carry into tabbed applications. Most Mac software developers and development shops have carried this pattern on (e.g. TextMate, Transmit, Pathfinder). We're not just talking about Safari. There's Opera too who "gets it." Their Windows browser puts the close button on the right. Their Mac browser puts it on the left. Apps that start off on Windows/Linux are in the habit of ignoring OSX conventions (e.g. Firefox, Adobe Creative Suite, and yes: Chrome).
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all the apps you site as examples do not use proxy icons. i believe actually, apple did not think things through, themselves, regarding their own implementation of tabs (which have no guidelines, i believe) and the close button. i suspect if/when tabs become a standard osx ui element, they might end up changing their mind.

but, in their own current developer guides, it is clearly stated that proxy icons go on the left wherever they are used. so, which is better? to follow the existing official documentation? or follow some examples where most everyone (not all) just do what the next guy did because there is no official rule? firefox followed osx guidelines (since they use a proxy icon).
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Derek Dunagan

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As I've mentioned before. The Glims for Safari design pattern marries both conventions in a usable, elegant way. When choosing whether to put the close button on the left or the right, it is better to look to what is already in OS X, than to what Windows app ports are doing that do not even use Mac frameworks.
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Daniel

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Don't like the red close button either...
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Mark Jarrell

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I would prefer a grey close button to the red one, but I don't agree that the close button should be on the left. It should be on the right. That's the standard convention for closing browser tabs.
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Tim Sullivan

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It's standard on Windows, sure, but in Apple products, close is on the left, not the right. Safari does it that way, so it's not a standard convention. See: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009...
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Mark Jarrell

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I'm talking about tabs, not application windows. It's on the right in Firefox tabs as well.
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Fabio Romeo

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Directly from Gruber himself: "And 'Firefox does it too' [close on the right] is not a ringing endorsement for good Mac UI design. Firefox is a poster child for crummy fake-Mac-UI cross-platform ports."

In other words, there's no excuse. Close is on the left, everything else is weird.
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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I don't have a strong opinion about this, but I have one practical note.

Right now tab contains 3 elements:
- icon
- label
- close button

How would you arrange them with close button on the left?
Close button and icon next to each other look silly (try it!).

Safari sacrifices icon to put close button on the left.
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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I see the usability problem people is pointing out, but while I love the "close on mouseover" behavior of Glims and Adium, there's a variety or reasons why this isn't suitable for the finder: there are many little features related to the icon in the window title, like right-clicking for the path, or holding to drag (copy, create alias) the folder (this last one is currently disabled in TF)...
though, we could try an alternative tab setup like ( [x]–Title–[ICON] )
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i think x on the right is just fine, and keep the small icons as is. however, i would like to say, lots of x's ads a touch the the visual clutter. i think they should only be visible on mouse over. and, stylistically, copying the x in safari is much better then the bright red x in the current version - that's too strong. awesome product btw. can't wait to pay you for it!!
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phx404

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I like the way Tim was putting it. Not sure, how Adium looks like on their tabs, but having the icon as a close button would suit everyone's cause, I guess. It would be on the left and would not look silly.
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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phx404, there's a serious usability problem with the combined icon/close button, please read my comment above :)
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phx404

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Lorenzo, I indeed oversaw your comment. Sorry.

However, I did not mean to force anyone to do something. I simply liked Tim's idea.

Your solution was also occurring to me and is also a nice one. And even one, which does not make things difficult for the icon features of the Finder. I would go for it as well.
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Fabio Romeo

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The Adium/Glims behaviour could be an answer, as Tim Sullivan said. I have two other suggestions, from left to right:

1. Close, icon-label centered. (icon right next to the label)
2. Close, label, icon(basically a reversed layout)

Honestly, I'm partial to #1.
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Fabio Romeo

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Also, the tab sides could be less angular to allow more room. But I don't know how feasible is this.
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stasiulo

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I would also prefer the close button on the left side. But it's great already how it is now!
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Martin Schürrer

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I'd like to point out that Google did extensive usability research when designing the Chrome Tabs. I'd really hate it if TotalFinder would go ahead and develop yet another way how tabs behave.

If the way tabs behave really has to change please a) make it a preference that I can toggle back to the Chrome way and b) thoroughly consider if it's worth the time when there are many other feature requests waiting.
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S Ray Constantine

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I, for one, like the way the tabs are laid out. Most of the GUI on modern computer is arranged to provide the closest analogy to real life. I like to see my tabs the way they appear in my file drawer, facing up, not down. The option-drag to create a new window is very cool. Please don't consider discarding this feature.
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vmacintyre

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I'm still all about the icon switching to the 'close' button on mouseover. Finder tabs are the only thing on my whole computer that close on the right. I don't mind them facing UP at all, I would *LOVE* if Safari went back to the beta 4 look. But anyway...
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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while I love the "close on mouseover" behavior of Glims and Adium, there's a variety or reasons why this isn't suitable for the finder: there are many little features related to the icon in the window title, like right-clicking for the path, or holding to drag (copy, create alias) the folder (this last one is currently disabled in TF)
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S Ray Constantine

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@vmacintyre. Agreed. Mouse over icon like Glims, and "up tabs," similar to Safari beta 4. Can we get a vote on this?
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mpmchugh

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Another vote for hiding the close being the favicon on the left. It should not be on the right. Google got this wrong in their Mac implementation.

I personally liked the Safari tabs on top too, though I do like the fact that Chrome leaves a little grab bar at the top whereas Safari did not.

I just don't like the look of Chrome's tabs. Safari's tabs on top looked better and more Mac-like. If anything the Finder should look more Mac-like than Chrome-like.

I would not be surprised if we see the Mac OS X tabs on top return, albeit improved in 10.7
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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while I love the "close on mouseover" behavior of Glims and Adium, there's a variety or reasons why this isn't suitable for the finder: there are many little features related to the icon in the window title, like right-clicking for the path, or holding to drag (copy, create alias) the folder (this last one is currently disabled in TF)
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lucian.branescu

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Chrome has to have close on the right because it's a cross-platform app. Someone like me who ends up using it on all three platforms almost every day truly appreciates the nice, uniform UI.
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Benjamin Lupton

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It makes sense having it on the right, the right is where you expect the new tab to appear, hence where you look. They got this RIGHT.
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Simon Cranwell

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I think TotalFinder is a brilliant idea, so great work to the dev!

Although I must admit, with my experience in UI design, that I immediately thought of the Safari 4 beta 'top' tabs when I first installed this.

The implementation is solid, though the visual style breaks away too much from the overall Mac integration. If the design were to match Safari 4 Beta's tabs as closely as possible, then I could almost imagine I were running Mac OS X 10.7... who knows, maybe Apple will add this in one day.
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Gary Ruuska

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I vote for the way Glims does it, with the icon changing to an X on mouse-over. The suggestion to allow the user to choose between left and right placement on the tab is a good one.
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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while I love the "close on mouseover" behavior of Glims and Adium, there's a variety or reasons why this isn't suitable for the finder: there are many little features related to the icon in the window title, like right-clicking for the path, or holding to drag (copy, create alias) the folder (this last one is currently disabled in TF)...
though, this could be an option in the settings for people who don't use these features.
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Derek Dunagan

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Right-clicking/dragging the name of the folder would serve the same purpose with a more intuitive clickable region
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Simon Cranwell

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Since it was totally bugging me, I decided to dig inside the SIMBL resources and see what I could change. Unfortunately the NIB files to modify the tabs themselves are compiled, however I was able to change the close and add tab buttons which were PDF files. See images below:

You can download the resources I created (and if you know where to put them) at: http://files.me.com/scran/z7eb5x

I'm hoping this will encourage the Dev to implement in the final release - yes, I am willing to pay! Also I feel that the icon and folder name should be centred and the close button on the left - like Safari. Even having the folder names in bold would be nice too.

Cheers

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Ticci

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Actually, there's a way to edit compiled .nib files: http://www.macstories.net/tutorials/h...
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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Nice job, Simon. I can provide source xib files, they would not be of any help I guess.

The look of the tabs is rendered from the code:
http://github.com/darwin/chromium-src...

I will need to rewrite this method eventually to render Safari-style tabs. Also icon positions are manipulated from the code, so the nib placement is just initial.

If someone rewrites chrome tab rendering to support safari look&feel both Chrome and TotalFinder may profit :-)

I will probably do it in some version after 1.0 release.
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Shawn Van Ittersum

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Is the tab UI defined in the github code or in the xib files?

It would be easy to move the close button to the left in Interface Builder. I don't yet know how to center the icon and title together on the tab, but given that the window system does it everywhere, perhaps there's an easy way to do it that does not rely on developer-level code to re-position the icon when the title changes.
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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Unfortunately tab rendering and icon positioning is driven by the code.

Although Google's devs depend only on XIB in http://github.com/darwin/chromium-src..., I had to change the code and position it programmatically to support dual-tab rendering.
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oh, and pertaining to the original post, i don't think safari style tabs will work well in the finder. personally, i don't think they work well in safari, either. having a doubled up title (1 in the tab, 1 in the window title) is too much and cluttered looking. i think this is why with the safari 4 beta, they actually switched to chrome style tabs. but, their implementation of them was kinda off, so rather than finesse the chrome tabs in safari, they switched back to the previous ones.
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Martin Yarcheeck

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Hmm, I have no problem with chrome skin, maybe becouse of i use chrome instead of Safary.
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jmlile

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Chromium with close tab button on left

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/iss...

Comment 116 by drew.ramos, May 11 (41 hours ago)
Thanks for the comments! Here are some download links: http://www.filesavr.com/chromium43024 (build of
revision 43024, this is the one I use since it looks like the current Chrome for Mac beta, omnibox-wise) and
http://www.filesavr.com/chromium46672 (build of revision 46672, fairly close to the latest dev build).
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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Thanks for this link, jmlile. People can see at least that this is not easy task.

I would rather follow Google UI guys, because I don't have resources to tinker with this and fight religious wars over my solution.

Btw. Alcor is the original creator of Visor and QuickSilver. The world is so small :-)
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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You may want to look at Opera's tabs in 10.6 alpha.
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/...

I think this may be good inspiration for alternative TotalFinder tabs interface. What do you think?
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Shawn Van Ittersum

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I'd prefer the Safari look, with Google Chrome is my second choice. I'm not really upset with how tabs look in TotalFinder, but it changed, it should be more towards Apple's designs. Since you're making an extension to the existing Finder, it makes sense to preserve as much of the Apple look as possible.
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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Yes, I would also prefer to keep Finder's look as possible :-) But you know the history. The only serious open-source tabs implementation available was Chrome's and I don't have resources to work on my own tabs solution. If TotalFinder earns something in sales, I will spend some time on features like this.
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Lorenzo Orlandi, Champion

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I personally can't stand new Opera tabs, since I find them to be –idk how to better explain my feeling– HEAVY... I find the design to be heavy and bold, quite physical, which I dislike compared to the "lightness" of Firefox, Safari and Chrome tabs. I also agree with Shawn on his point.
Dunno if that could be of any use, but here you can find the latest publicly available beta of Safari4 with tabs on top: it won't launch on 10.6 but you can find the tabs resources into the app package ;)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1279469/Safar...
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Brian

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I hope that we get Safari-style tabs too (complete with the close button on the left side of the tab). It would just be more "Mac-like"!
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Antonin Hildebrand, Developer

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Just FYI, Firefox 4 will have tabs very similar to Chrome:
http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2010/...

There is a video summarizing the reasons for it.