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Scummy gross foam after shocking

everytime I add Dazzle Amaze Plus I get a nasty foam with white paste/scum on the bubbles. the problem lessened when I changed filters, but is still there. My wife and I use the tub daily for 20-30 min, and according to my Taylor Test kit (both at work where I work in steam generation and my kit at home) show proper levels of Bromine, the right PH, TA is good and so is Calcium. Even the test strips show all is good, as does the water test at my dealers. So what's up with the gross foam? we both shower before entering the tub, don't wear skin lotions or makeup, or (she) removes it before going in. Help please?????
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) February 25, 2013 16:15
    Good day Rob,

    Thank you for your question. I'm sure we can solve the foam issue with a little work and a little patience.

    From what you have written, it sounds like you and your wife really enjoy your hot tub. You should be proud that you maintain the balance and bromine levels so well.

    One question I do have, how often do you use the Amaze Plus? The reason I ask this is that we often recommend treatment with Amaze Plus weekly, however there are some hot tub owners that need to use it more frequently.

    Foaming after a shock treatment is normally associated with elevated levels of organics in the water. While showering before hot tub use helps to reduce the amount of 'stuff' that is released into the water, there is still a good amount of perspiration and body waste. It is estimated that the average person will perspire 1 pint of sweat in 20-25 minutes of hot tub use. In your case, if the hot tub is being used daily by the two of you, that is around 14 pints of sweat being contributed to the water. This doesn't account for some of the other bather waste that accumulates either.

    When these organics are shocked, they often lead to a foam build-up. This foam is not present in between treatments. What this is, is the shock trying to break down the organic complexes to smaller components and 'gassing' them away.

    How long has it been since you changed the water. If its been a few months, you may want to consider a drain or partial drain of your hot tub so you can get some fresh water into it. This should help reduce the foaming dramatically. You can also bring a sample in to your closest Dazzle retailer for a water analysis. They can also help guide you on the proper correction path.

    I hope this helps Rob. Please let me know if you have any other questions!
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  • Unfortunately the retailer and manufacturer of my tub doesn't have a setup any better than I have, in fact I am pretty sure the kit I have is more accurate than the simple tests they do.
    The tub is brand new, installed in mid January, and other than a couple small tops ups, the water hasn't been changed.
    I use the Amaze Plus weekly, arecommendeded. My retailer advised 60 grams of it each week, yet the bottle suggests more like 30. it is a 1700 Litre tub.
    I tested my water tonight after work and the Bromine was at 11ppm, but should drop by tomorrow. I am of the belief that it is normal for it to spike after a shock, this reading is about 24hrs after the shock.
    Should I turn off the air when I run the jets during the 15 minutes at initial shock? Reading here seems to suggest that. Should I shock more often, or with more product?
    thanks for the fast reply. much appreciated.
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) February 26, 2013 18:17
    Hi again,

    Yes it is perfectly normal for Bromine levels to spike after a shock treatment. For your tub, I'd recommend 3-3.5 capfuls per week with normal hot tub use. Try to reduce the amount you are using and see if the foaming subsides.

    When adding chemistry products to your hot tub, it is recommended to run the pump on high speed, with the air off if possible. When the hot tub is not in use, it is a good idea to turn the air off.

    For now, let's see if a reduced dosage of Amaze Plus eliminates the foaming. If not, a mid-week dose may be necessary.

    Please let me know the outcome in 2 weeks. You can reach me directly at mike.drummond@backyardbrands.com

    Thanks!
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  • just an update midway through this. Did our shock on Sunday night, ran the unit without air 3 times (45 minutes) left the top off for 2hrs. next day checked the water and was about 18ppm 14hrs later. later that night ran it again with no air. checked the next day Bromine had gone down to 8ppm, ran with air and got scummy bubbles. arrrg
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) March 07, 2013 13:28
    Thank you for the update. Is the foaming getting any better? If not, try a mid-week dose for the next 7-10 days.

    Another option that may help get you back on track quicker is a partial drain. If you drain down half or 2/3 of the tub and refill, you may be able to get past the foaming faster.

    Can you tell me how quickly the bromine levels come back down. How were you able to determine the bromine level was 18ppm? What are you using to test the water with?

    If the foaming doesn't begin to subside within the next week or so, I'd strongly encourage you to consider the partial drain option. It is the quickest way to fixing the foaming issue.

    Keep me posted on how things progress.

    Thanks again for your patience Rob.
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  • I use a Taylor test kit, the K 2106 with FAS DPD to test my spa, this is the Bromine version of the 2000 series kits. The foaming was nonexistent this morning, and I'll need to test the water when I get up (night shift) but it felt different types tonight. Harder than normal. I know my PH suddenly dropped this week down to about 7.2 and my calcium was just above minimum, so added some calcium. But didn't touch the PH. Don't want to start chasing it while adnusting other stuff.
    Thanks again for helping out.
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) March 12, 2013 17:42
    Rob, let me know if the foaming issue is getting better with more frequent shocking. Please do not use defoamer as that could actually make the issue worse.

    The test kit you are using is great.

    Water balance will shift through usage and application of products to the water. Once the TA level drops, the pH may bounce around more freely. I would work to keep the water properly balanced throughout the treatment procedure. Sounds like the balance is pretty good as is.

    Does the foaming subside once the bromine level comes back down to normal ranges? Does the tub foam while being used? Or is this only when the water is shocked?
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  • The scummy foam still shows up after shocking once the air is turned on even with low Bromine levels. A couple runs and they finally dissipate.
    Water is back in balance, some sodium bicarbonate fixed that.
    As we will be draining the tub at the end of the month while we holiday, I'm reluctant to do a partial drain now.
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  • I will be shocking the tub Tuesday one week since I refilled it on Tuesday last week. Been having a hard time keeping the Bromine levels up. One day they are good, then the next day nothing or close to nothing.
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) April 23, 2013 14:12
    Rob, are you using bromine tabs, bromine granules or both? We'd recommend the use of both. After fresh fills, adding the dose of bromine granules will establish an immediate bromine level. This will then make maintaining adequate bromine levels easier. Bromine tablets alone are slow dissolving (less than 2% solubility) and can take some time to build up appropriate levels. If the tub is used before sanitizer levels are up, larger sanitizer demands are created. This makes it tough to maintain bromine/chlorine levels. Using bromine granules to get started and for times when a boost is needed will allow you to maintain the bromine levels easier.

    Has the foaming subsided with the fresh fill?

    Hope this helps!
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  • we use tabs as well as granule. we didn't use the tub for one day, and as such didn't add any granule like normal after using it. testing the next day showed me basically no level of bromine in the tub.
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  • Mike Drummond (Dealer Development Manager) April 25, 2013 18:10
    How many tabs do you use at a time? It may be that you need to increase the number of tabs OR allow for more water flow through your dispenser.

    Do you use a built in dispenser or a floating dispenser? What do you have it set at? How many tabs do you but in your dispenser?
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