Ammo as a Resource

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  • Updated 2 years ago


Let's talk about ammunition.

We're currently working on an ammunition system that introduces ammunition to the game as a consumable resource.

Compound Basics
- Ammunition is a dropped item, like wood, metal, cloth, food and water
- It has it's own storage which can be upgraded
- It has it's own drop-off which can be upgraded
- Ammunition is a general resource that is used for all firearms

Mission Basics
- Ammunition is UNLIMITED during missions
- Ammunition is NOT dropped as specific calibers but as general "ammo"
- Each weapon has an ammo cost
- The ammo cost for each weapon is deducted each time it is used on a mission
- Ammunition does not apply when defending your compound
- Ammunition storage can be raided
- Ammunition gear items are now called Ammunition Mods
- We might allow crafting of ammo resource from Ammuniton Mod parts

How does it relate to weapons?
Each weapon has an "ammo cost" - this cost is determined by the rate of fire, the capacity of the weapon and the value of it's ammunition. It's not a formula so it's individually balanced based on the weapon type and it's general effectiveness.

The ammo cost is deducted from your ammo resource for every mission you run with that weapon. It is a set amount and does not vary.

For example - .22 caliber rounds are far more common and less valuable than 7.62×51mm rifle rounds. As a result, using a Manning has an ammo cost of around 15, whereas the M-24 is much more expensive at about 75.

But melee sucks.
We hear you. Along with this update we're looking at doing a lot of things to make melee more exciting and effective.

Discussion thread about melee here: https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...

- More melee weapons at higher levels
- New animations
- New effects
- Critical hit animations
- Custom critical kill animations (axe stuck in head, leverage out with foot etc)
- AI improvements
- Grab / Breakout situations

Why are you doing this?
We realized that the game had lost a large chunk of it's survival by not restricting ammunition at all. We want to bring back the terror and the challenge of being forced into difficult situations, it's what the zombie genre is about for us. We want to bring back hard choices.

It's also a tool for us to re-balance some of the weapons in the game. There are a handful of go to weapons for a lot of players. The reality is the highest powered and largest capacity weapons possible will carry a high ammo value. We're hoping that this broadens the weapon choices of users and makes PvE and raiding a lot more interesting.

Melee is ignored by nearly everyone at the moment and we want to bring it back to the limelight. It can be brutal and fun - we're looking at games like Dawn of War for inspiration and wanting to bring that level of impact to the combat.

Overall, we just want to make the game a struggle again a real fight for survival.

Let us know what you think!
We're open to ideas here. Let us know what you think of the change and if we've missed any scenarios where you think it might not work.

We know it's a huge shift in the game, we hope that most of you will be happy with it.

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Con, Official Rep

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Posted 3 years ago

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Phdo

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I like it. Having unlimited ammo is boring!
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Mark Santos

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Happy here!
Instead of an ammo drop-off point, you can call it a reloading station or reloading machine (multiple sources on the internet) and call the storage an Ammo Locker or something tactical like that.
I am currently a little dissatisfied with the way the guns work because, like mentioned above, there are 'go-to guns' that are almost exclusively used, especially at the higher levels.
Also melee weapons should NOT have a level cap (don't know if they currently do or don't), at least not the current max cap on the high-level weapons. Who knows what a level 20 pocket knife can do? :-D
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Kai Jie Teo

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I agree but then again, you will be making a loss in resources as you spend more ammunition to obtain few resources. If both the storage and the reloading station cost little to upgrade and build, I would gladly accept the change.
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jak

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Yeah i think youre right and its a great idea because the game did lost the survival feeling when you can lose food and water to 0 and noting happen or you can have unlimited ammo you dont feel like its a survival game you just made 1 more step to get this game to be a real survival game again great job.
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Afro

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Will it be like a Vacation type thing? That during this time, they only take half of Water/Food, and that you basically double your Water/Food when you activate Rationing?

Sorry for the questions! I love this game to death, i recommend it to my friends almost everyday, and even just got my girlfriend into it. :D I just don't want a game i give so much praise for to become something unfun.

The Ammo limitation i can get use too.

Would like it a bit better if there was a counter during the mission that counted the shots, and that get subtracted instead of a flat rate, or actually pick how many magazines your survivors take on missions; That way when you go into an area, you're there to loot and kill zombies till you're outta ammo, and then leave. Or save ammo and only use what you need too.
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Con, Official Rep

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Yeah kinda a vacation thing, Afro. Thinking we might offer a vacation pack that has protection in it as well.

Choosing ammunition amounts for each of your 5 man team for each mission you go on depending on how much ammo you've got at the time is way too much micromanagement for the end result. If the missions were longer, sure.
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Afro

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Well.. Maybe not choose the amount of ammunition then, but if Ammo will be as Abundant as it sounds, and if you maybe make the Storage Capacity kinda high.. The Ammo Counter would make a bit more sense.

Thank you for the replies. :D
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Rodrigo Maués Vasconcelos

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Well the survival feeling about food and water could be put in new ways, like not recovering injuries, or at last, they lasting longer to heal( really longer); survivors refusing to do the work in the compound and fleeing from you if the problem continues, the possibilities can go on.
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Zayez

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Hey Con, as to the water and food issue, there should be a health penalty also. I know one raider that has no storage of any kind, all he does is raid. He dismantled all his storage buildings because he bit off more then he could chew, now you can't retaliate against his supplies because he has none,so a stiff health penalty (50%) would force him to atleast keep a days worth of food, maybe it will keep him and any others in check. Great ideas though, Im sure you know how the morale penalty will affect people like that. Great thinking with the ammo, definitely feels like paradise with unlimited ammo, now were getting back to the horror of it all, lol
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Derek Parker

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what about automated missions? is it cost ammo too?
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Con, Official Rep

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Yes, they will also cost ammunition.
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Derek Parker

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with a random amount?can it be raided?
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jak

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no it will cost as much as the gun you put on cost and if its melee it wont cost ammo if i got it right
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Con, Official Rep

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No, it's a set amount. The ammo cost for each weapon is a set amount. It is deducted when you start the mission.

During the mission, ammo is unlimited - you can fire and reload as much as you want.
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Afro

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If Melee gets critical hit Animations, can we get head shot animations for guns? I have found it kinda silly that my survivors can't head shot a zombie and instead go for all body shots.

I don't really like this.. I feel like it's going to limit what i can do in game now. (Seeing how i bought fuel, and crafted a couple M24's and M249's, cause it's my preference in weapons has nothing to do with being OP, i just like Snipers and LMG's.)

How big will the storage capacity be? 3000? Like the others? And how rare is ammo going to be? Only found in Security's, Streets, Police Stations? That's only 3 places and then are locked for 24 hours.. /:

Wah. I really love this game, i just hope this doesn't kill it for me.
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Afro

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Melee isn't my kind a fun.. At least none of the Melee Weapons have interested me so far. The Blooduster isn't all that great to me. I only take it out when i'm going to go destroy every Barricade in someone's base for attacking me.

I mean the places with the most abundance of Ammo. I know houses will have some, (Especially if we're in Texas. Lol. *Is from Texas*)

Like. I get most Wood from Warehouses, and not really much Cloth or Metal. Most Cloth and Metal from Hardware Stores, and not really any Wood. Not sure if it's just my game or what, but that's what i kinda meant. :P
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Valid concerns Afro,

Critical Anims - We're looking at a dismemberment system as well to work for criticals, we'll see what happens.

Texas - we're not in Texas.

Ammo finds - it'll be fairly widespread. Dead survivor backpacks, obviously firearm locations and a few others.

Storage capacity is undecided at this point.
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Afro

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Kk. Least you replied. Meh.
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David Jones

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Storage capacity for ammo should be unlimited...
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Kai Jie Teo

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David Jones: Agreed
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Keylan75

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"clickclickclick"

Leader: What da fu...?
Fighter: We need ammo yet, boss
Leader: What? Damn, havn`t read the patchnotes. And what now?
Fighter: Take this!
Leader: Äh... what is that?
Fighter: Its a Mace.
Leader: Okay... a Mace... where is the trigger?
Fighter: Boss, stop scoping the Mace! Just swing it!
Leader: Are you kidding me? This... äh... Mace is really heavy!
Fighter: It was YOUR decision to be a scavenger. Did we get a training centre now?
Leader: I want to build a cinema. We dont have the ressources for a training centre
Fighter: But...
Leader: Shut up... just go and bring me ammo, or you can sleep at the outhouses!

I dont like the idea of ammo!
But it would not be the first time that you convince me, Con!

However... if ammo sucks i can use the amazing, brandnew, jojimbo melee style :)

win/win update, hm? :)
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Con, Official Rep

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More time reading, less time telling stories hey Keylan :)
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Keylan75

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Rebuke accepted. I vow improvement :)
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Just_RC

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omg the story was funny ahahah
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NUGIT

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haha funny story, your leader is a fag can't carry a mace lol
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Kai Jie Teo

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Genius Leader.
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Milo

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Finally, yes! :D unlimited ammo is pretty much cheating haha! it's good to know this idea is underdevelopment!
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Derek Parker

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ithe ammo storage,or storages will hold an infinite ammount of ammo or limited?
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jak

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like any storage do you have infinite ammount of food no right?
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Con, Official Rep

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It will very definitely be finite.
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Kai Jie Teo

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At least make it a large number Con, maybe 5000 will work.
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Doncuneo

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DAWN OF WAR FTW! RESPECT FOR CON LVL UP...

anyways,my only suggestion for now is a craftable form of ammunition, for those extremely desperate players who are out of ammo, down on their luck and raided so much over night, these Craftable ammo or "Dirty rounds" will have to be used alot more when going into missions (as they are not as reliable) in ingame terms It doesnt affect any function, weapons still work the same but when you go on a mission it will cost more to use "Dirty rounds" say 20-30% so a weapon that costs 100 ammo to use will cost 130 "Dirty round" ammo.

This is also a great way to make use of the shell casings, firing pins and gunpowder weve accumulated over playing, I for one know people who have 2000-3000 units of gunpowder from recycling alone.

Also Con, Perhaps eventually (with some polishing) we could use ammo as a currency, in a similar fashion to how the russian game "Metro 2033" does it, I think they got it right, In a dystopian world where society has collapse and people are just going day to day to survive paper isnt all that useful but Bullets are, a thousand times more making it the new currency.

Hence why I suggest "Dirty rounds" as well as normal military grade or "Vintage rounds" as those are an ever more scarce resource.

one last thing, we sorta need a reload button.

hope to here your feedback con..
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Mark Santos

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Good one! Lots of people have bullets recycled for metal cases. Lots of primers and gunpowder just sitting in inventory. For that matter, the explosive traps should be rebuildable with gunpowder OR an explosive charge. (LOL, the size of the explosive charge in-game, if typical to real-world, is enough to destroy the entire warehouse if properly placed.)
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Doncuneo

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which is part of the reason why I like the idea of crafting explosives, IEDs are a terrible problem we have now but are extremely practical, even a simple pipe bomb "which I know is has a varriant that uses gunpowder" for both defense and offense ie: help take town fortified positions at the cost of crafting, perhaps using the 3rd slot?
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Doncuneo

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Damn, I wonder if cons seen this Idea, Its awesome! =( we really need this, for one I think Im one of those people who end up blowing all his ammo after a few missions with LMGs.
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Cid

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+1
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Derek Parker

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i know i'm asking a lot of silly questions so here are last:
+ Will weapons display their ammo cost during mission or we have to guess it by their capacity?
+Melee Crit will cost more precious time,no?(Pull out a stucked axe)
+If a survivor is grabbed,can we do something or they'll break out by themself
+Crafting ammo-related gear will cost ammo?
+I'm out of spaces in my compound,when buildings will be able to place next to walls?
if some of these are not answered well i guess we have to wait :)
great update! the game is become more realistic one step at a time :)
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HanzoRazor

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Please no clicking struggle. It'd make running a mission a nightmare to have to stop scavenging to click a melee battle while everyone else stands around. If survivors did more on there own, ordering the scavenger to go find stuff and scavenge, even if they're not particularly efficient, it'd be one thing. And two clicking battles would pretty much end that as players can't do multiple things at once.
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Emma Knickman

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Con, what about a clicking struggle for laptop players? Not a bad idea at all for those who have a mouse, but the click buttons on laptops can be very easy to push, hard to push, etc.
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Yeah, it's one idea.

The other is just to lock them up and have them rely on another survivor to "rescue" them by interacting with them.
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Wong Yew Weng

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What about having survivors break out automatically after a period of time? It could be tied to their Melee Combat stat, so the player won't have to babysit their front line fighters, but will still need to pay attention to positioning their survivors.
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David Jones

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How about a 360 degree swing after critical kill? Because the zombies will gather up around you after the time with invincibility run out.
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Mark Santos

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Since Con brought up the topic, why can't we have a different type of ammo upgrade: Shotgun shells.
I am assuming that the shotguns in-game are loaded with 00 Buckshot. Why? The beauty of shotguns are that they can have all kinds of good stuff inside the rounds.

Birdshot:
Same damage (meh, maybe slightly less), but ups knockback by a chunk

Solid lead shot:
Massive damage, but increases time between shots (call it recoil)

Dragon's Breath:
Lower knockback (since they're pyrotechnic rounds), negative number on the round corresponds to a positive number bonus/increase to damage.

Breaching (Hatton) rounds:
Don't know . . . maybe increased knockback?

Non-lethal rounds:
Hey, zombie game. Forget about it. Might be useful for PvP, perhaps?

OT: I also want to see the Taurus Judge, a revolver that can fire shotgun shells.

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Chad M Goodwin

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I like the idea of a revolver that fires shotgun ammo.
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Doncuneo

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having severals ammo types will make the game too complicated and It would add even more work for the small team at con artist, I like the way con thinks these things through
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Mark Santos

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Think about it though . . . hollow-point ammo in your shotgun?
I think it was a HUGE gap by not putting in a variety of shotgun ammunition.
Stick a new graphic up for the shotgun shells and use the existing template for the ammo that modifies the weapon stats, but specific to the shotgun shell's effect. Only thing new they add is that the ammo is specific to shotguns only. (And The Judge, if they stick it in. Please stick it in. I want you to stick it in.)
Shoot, they just added a whole bunch of vests and gloves. How hard can it really be?
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We have plans for weapon specific ammunition mods. That is all.
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Mark Santos

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Thank you. Validated. That is all I have to say.
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Keyser Söze

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I like all of these ideas with the exception of the unlimited ammo on a mission. If you're going to make ammo a resource, I'd personally prefer you take it to the point where the actual ammo usage is based on the actual usage of the weapons within a mission.

I understand that you don't want to mess around with different ammo "types" and I concur with that train of thought (I imagine it'd be quite a bit of work to code and it would take a lot of micro managing on the players' side to have all the different types of ammo). I also like that weapons have a usage rate for the ammo "resource" that is based on the scarcity of ammo for that weapon. I just want the ammo cost to also take into consideration what I do in a mission. If I take my big, expensive gun into a mission, but keep it in reserve, I don't want to be penalized. That just ruins my suspension of belief. If I do end up using it, then it should cost way more ammo (resource) than a pistol but relative to how much I use it.

To me this is more suspenseful because I'm actively making the decision to use or not use my ammo resource the whole time I'm on a mission, not just before I start a mission. Otherwise once I commit to taking my expensive guns on a mission (and pay that ammo resource cost upfront), I can just spray out the bullets all over the place with no care or worry. I understand that this comes with some additional considerations that need to be decided (game mechanics-wise) such as, how do you handle a player using more of the ammo resource in a mission if the cost is added up at the end? You can probably come up with a better solution than me but off the top of my head I'd say that you allow ammo usage to go into a negative during a mission but that a player can't run more missions with guns until they rebuild their ammo supply (they'd be forced to run missions with melee weapons if they needed resources to create the ammo).

I'm not sure how much more difficult that would be to implement, but if I had a magic game coding wand, I'd use it to implement that. :-D

(A bit tired here so hopefully that all makes sense)
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Keyser Söze

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Yeah I get that but I still don't see it adding the level of suspense you are talking about unless you are going to make ammo so scarce that we are forced to conserve ammo (which I guess, you might be). Either way I think this is a step in the right direct and can't wait to see how it gets implemented. :)
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Con, Official Rep

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It creates pressure in the missions by not letting you use the top tier weapons all the time. Try running a mission with 3 or 4 sub-optimal weapons and tell me how you go :)
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Keyser Söze

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Thanks, Con; I'm curious though what will keep it from letting me use my top tier weapons all the time? Is ammo going to be that scarce? I suspect you are talking about level appropriate missions (of which there are none for us higher level players [I'm not bitching lol I know you've got plans for them]) so my experiences probably aren't a great indicator of level balance at the moment.

Still, right now I run mostly one survivor per automated missions to get all the supplies I need so unless you're planning on either 1) severely limiting ammo and/or 2) tweaking the survivability of automated missions I don't see this having a big impact on my play style (though you've proved me wrong before so the proofs in the pudding, as they say).

As a side note (for other's who may read this), I am only running the automated missions because I'm trying to avoid gaining XP until the higher level missions are released; I'm already lvl 33 and I'm pretty sure the higher lvls that Con has talked about top out at lvl 30 or 35 so I don't want to be overpowered for them, too. :)
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Con, Official Rep

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It's a resource that will be in flux due to raiding, running missions etc. The idea will be that it forces you into mixing up your weapon choices once every few missions.
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Keyser Söze

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Well it sounds interesting; can't wait to see it. :)
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Jon

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So is this https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...
discussing still relevant to this?
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Mark Santos

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I think that thread is what got Con rolling . . . lots of ideas and pros and cons from that thread have brought Con to this juncture . . .
A lot of people should be asking the question "Will this change make the game better" instead of "Will this change make the game EASIER FOR ME?"
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Con, Official Rep

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The points I made there are still relevant, yeah. It's how we came to this version of the system.
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Cann Kerbos

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I like this, Con some of u MUST have played Fallout 1 or 2, those killing animations were totally awesome



btw i've already try inserting the right click code on some random and shitty apps i made on flash, works pretty good, except one time i got some weird delay

asdasdasdasdasdlink

PS: forgot to say, it looks like the screen become transparent or something, dunno how explain it, and of course i couldn't make it work properly with menus
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Nicol Djaghilev

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Ahhh, the memories... Sweet sweet Fallout one.
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David Sanchez

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Yes this game does lack a challenge i just tried the 10 M24s strategy that is really popular and yes it is pretty easy.I would also like to see in the game more melee variety.

Like a weapon that boost defense, another that is load and attracts attention(chainsaw). a weapon that swings fast. ect you get the idea. but this feels like a fair update to the game and i look real forward seeing it implemented.
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John Zalesski

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I hate this idea! :(
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Con, Official Rep

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Tell us why John, we want to hear it!
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Mark Santos

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From an earlier post: "A lot of people should be asking the question "Will this change make the game better" instead of "Will this change make the game EASIER FOR ME?" "
I like this for the realism (such as it is, LOL I remember 'Mace from a watchtower') and it reflects the scarcity of resources in the Dead Zone.
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John Zalesski

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Well Con I feel this is just an Energy Bar system a gimmic for $$ for Bullets and a limit to how and when I would like to play. I would really like to play this awesome game all day long (i.e. 0 return time) and no bullet cost! Could you just please sell this game on Steam already for a one time purchase and then you can get rid of all this energy bar FUEL and Bullet crap!
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Chad M Goodwin

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I think that would make raiding & looting seemlingly harder but what is realism worth? A lot for successful games.

Still a great idea, I vaguely remember it being an issue in the prior versions of The Last Stand, you collected money and purchased it at one of the few gun stores or were fortunate enough to find a stash of it while looting. Being able to switch in game from firearm to melee made the difference, now you could make it so that with a command button only the Leader or Recon or Engineers can make the switch, that would limit it and not complicate it too much for software.

I have yet to find a bloodluster but when I do I'll get ride of a lot of short range automatic weapons and just have a stash of long range rifles and a few manning rifles. I've already started phasing out the SAW (good for raiding) its pretty effective until you have to reload while getting pummeled by zeds I lost 3 survivors because of that, mag fed is better for looting.

When you do implement this make it so only a leader can raid the Ammo magazine, and possibly only once in 24-48hrs so they can't just keep coming back with 2 or 3 survivors and raiding until its completely gone. Or else people will do without the ammo and demo the storage facility. Making the game boring and driving people away, especially the ones that pay to play using fuel. Like tribal wars, where you could constantly raid your opponent and force them quit or restart, I don't know of a restart button here unless you dump your email acct and get a new one... that's a hassle.
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Mark Santos

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Bloodluster is crafted, you won't be able to find it. Upgrade your Weapons Bench. :-)
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RobinT

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oooh. This also eliminates raiders who keep nothing in their compounds.
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Vostro

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I like it... that's it.
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Chris Vildhjarta Vidal

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I'd like this idea Con but I think you should be able to carry firearm / melee weapon (like a machete and nothing super huge) if you are going to do this route because what if you happen to run out of ammo during a mission?

It would be nice to see them switch to a melee weapon when they run out or to be able to switch back and forth if that's possible in FLASH. I just don't want to see a nice idea ruined since we can't have both.
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Con, Official Rep

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Ammo is unlimited during missions.
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removed

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Totally offtopic, but seems to be a big gamebreaker.
some players have dismantled all their buildings but still they manage to attack other players and take down all suvivors and break down all barricades/barriers.

https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...
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Con, Official Rep

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Won't be as possible without ammo storage :)

Also the morale hits from not having security, food, water and comfort will be a lot higher. His survivors won't be nearly as effective as they were.
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removed

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ok. hoping that will do :)
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Vostro

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and increased morale penalty for food and water shortage as stated above should lessen this tacit as well...

Con (Official Rep) 1 hour ago

o your point about Food and Water resources, we're actually addressing that in the next update as well - the morale penalty for running out of food and water will be much much greater.
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Kraetzik

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Generally not against it, but saw this really good idea you mentioned a while ago about adding minimum range too the long rifle weapons which
a) reduce their effectiveness and make other weapons more interesting
b) actual seems also realistic to me
And it would accomplish most of the points you are trying to achieve here

The other problem at the moment, I actually love my engineer with the bloodluster and think he can actually kill more zombies per time then any lmg/m16a2 and especially m24 (which is terrible at killing zombies, don't understand people obsession with it...)
BUT he only reacts to every 2nd zombie. Actually the micromanaging of the melee is what is stopping me from using it more often. From what I see from your posts you are trying to avoid exactly too much mircomanaging. Thus I was wondering before adding the depletable ammo, maybe check out the routines for when a melee guy runs to the closes zombie? Cause I really only see him react in about 60% of situations....

Also one big think about ammo, don't think it should be stealable, otherwise in PvP you can just empty ones ammo by raiding and the other has no chance of retaliation. Cause face it, in PvP only M24 counts which needs ammo.....
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Vostro

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Cool. I've also noticed the behavior Kraetzik mentions, and think I've seen 'similar' things with ranged fighters. It seems to me to be an an awareness issue. I've found that tabbing through my survivors seems to keep them on their toes more... but that could just be a placebo effect. :)
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Kraetzik

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For melee issue:

1. (smaller) he sometimes stutter after I manually told him to attack a zombie, cause the zombie doesn't notice him and is walking away from him
2. (bigger) so normally survivors auto-attack when a zombie notices that any survivor is around if the zombie is within range. Sometimes the melee guy does smt similar with storming to the zombie to attack (which is good), the range seems to be smt like 10? However sometimes he doesn't, which is frustating especially if there is a recon with rifle right next to him, which is slowly dieing while the engineer just stands next to him. It generally seems to me that the auto-attack on detection of survivors does not work 100%, actually it only works about ~80% of time (estimate..). I am not sure why, but if you want, I can make you some screenshots
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Kraetzik

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And yeah about the minimum range, the reduction of accuracy is genius actually saw an older post by you about this idea earlier today (https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...). Not sure why you never implemented it.... This would really balance out the weapons and make it more realistic, bascially I think that would be the greatest idea, so do it first ;)
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HanzoRazor

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It won't make it more realistic. It's easier to hit a closer target than a further one, unless I suppose you're actually in melee, in which case yes, I can see trying to aim being rather difficult.

I don't have a problem with it as a game mechanic, it's a useful one for limiting ranged weaponry.
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Robert Black

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I have also found my attempts to use melee weapons hindered by the "I don't see this zed next to me but I will run over there to that one" issue. Almost had a guy taken out because he tried to run past several targets, they swarmed him, and instead of fighting them he was struggling to get through them to a different target.

It is almost like the player melee commands are using the same logic as the zed melee. I have seen them target a player and if you move them the zed will run past several shooters to follow.
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Derek Parker

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obviously if the game harder you'll spend more time and focus into the game (more fun) rather than sit and staring at the screen waiting for shit to happen!
stop complaining people this update will change the game forever!
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Afro

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Funny.. I didn't see anywhere in here that said you wouldn't have to sit and wait for Survivors to come back from missions.. Please show me where you saw that at?
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Derek Parker

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from my brother...
funny is the guy was like sitting and staring at the screen like a statue then burst out all his patient and all most throw the chair at the screen when i told him to try this game... but my point is if the game was so easy... there's no fun in that!
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Grumpy Guayabo

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Indeed, Derek.

I totally liked it.
Back when I played TLS: UC for he very first time, I found myself -incredibly- without ammo. It just scared the sh*t out of me (I had melee, yes, but I thought shootin' and runnin' while playing Survival Mode would be fun).

Hoping to see it very soon - no pressure for you, guys. You've done great!

Also, crafting ammo should be avaliable. Will be?

And... Con mentioned Ammo does not apply when defending. The same for attacking?
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Vostro

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Yes. Crafting ammo - please. (looks over at pile of 2200 in gunpowder). Please!
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Grumpy Guayabo

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Higher levels are gonna be such Badasses-Ammo-Crafters
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HanzoRazor

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I'm thinking not for attacking, as attacking is pretty much the same as running a mission.
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RealFolkBlues207

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You know what? Bring it on. This could really make the game a real challenge. What are we without challenge? Stagnant. Fighting mindless zombie after mindless zombie without ever having to worry about wasting ammo? That's a walk in the park. Making ammo a collectible resource just adds more depth to this already deep zombie game. Do I really want to use the M249 SAW on this mission, even though it's going to cost me a lot of ammo or could I still succeed in the mission with an economical approach to ammo with an AK-74? Good on you ConArtist. Always making this game fresh with each update and keeping every survivor camp on their toes.
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Michael Yau

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Think melee would be a more viable choice during missions if you didn't get hit before you land the first strike on a zombie.

That and perhaps adding some sort of damage reduction or block/dodge chance vs zombies.

As it is right now using melee weapons on a survivor at higher levels just forces you to pair that survivor with a medic/leader.
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Con, Official Rep

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Melee users already get a bonus to damage / dodging - have for a long time.

The survivor class you choose to equip with a melee weapon is the biggest choice. Engineers and Fighters, yes. Everyone else, not so much.

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