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Con (Official Rep) November 22, 2012 01:07

Making the game harder or more challenging - how would you do it?

Imagine you had the ability to make YOUR version of Dead Zone harder or more challenging, how would you do it?

There's a few rules to this game:

1. You can only work within the existing game rules.
2. You can't add anything.

So how would you modify the game to give yourself a real challenge?
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  • 1. You can only work within the existing game rules.

    make zombies much stronger

    2. You can't add anything.
    remove crafting or make it real rare. even at level 23 you will have no problem with suvivors using standard level 18 ak.

    restarted to play on my level 50 account, after dismantled all buildings, pretty hard to go on even low level missions with low level weapons.

    off topic https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...
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  • have the recycling have random but possible outputs of the recycled item
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  • 1
    not sure if this counts as "within game rule" but maybe nerfing the M24?

    Since, when everyone gets to the point of equipping M24s, all they have to do in order to be always safe from attacks is to equip all their survivors that gun, making your defense 100% sound which is something I dont really find that challenging

    Also, perhaps getting the zombie attacks to also come off when youre offline, just like when you get raided, you will log online and see if your defense wether you were successful or had your survivors turn into zombie happy meal, just like with automated missions though, depending on what you have equipped and how many survivors the outcome will be either "moderate" "high" or "low"
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  • Have the zombie able to do critical hits.

    Small increase on zombie HP as guns in defence are like fly swaters.

    Have melee weapons also have some effect on dogging like for example the Ram could make doging rare even for fighters. were as most blades increase dogging rate.
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  • -increase xp needed to lvl up
    -increase horde's hp's
    -decrease loot significantly(at least so we don't so easily stack up 100s of 1000s of components
    -lower survivor combat stats when low moral
    -security builds degrading, needing maintenance(requiring resources)
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  • 3
    INCREASE THE NUMBER OF ZOMBIES SPAWNING GRADUALLY: the longer you stay in an area the larger the number of zombies will be. reason: atm the most challenging part of doing missions is as in the case of parks that you have to go to one remote area in the north and then go the whole way back, thus you have to encounter a large number of zeds you haven't killed yet which makes it quite tricky to fulfill the mission. if the number increases in general, returning to the green zone would be rally like an escape during the last second instead of a comfortable walk back.

    INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES NEEDED TO REPAIR YOUR DEFENSIVE STRUCTURES. atm my storages are mostly maxed up, so i can rebuild them quite easily which makes repairing a kind of annoyance but not a challenge.In order to assure your setup being safe you will be obliged to run a larger variety of missions instead of continuing to look for better equipment. To make this even more challenging you might as well slightly increase the zeds' pulsion to destroy your buildings.
    Explaination: After the July update, I had my compound raided several times with all of my structures destroyed and half of my survivors wounded, so the horde attack were really a kind of challenge which forced me to do some kind of strategical reflexion on different subjects at the same time (reconstruct my fort, assuring resource supply, making retaliation plans etc.) To make this work

    ZOMBIES ABILITY TO HARM YOU SHOULD BE INCREASED: You will only be worried about your defense structures if they are really needed. Thus the possibility of leaving a team equipped with melee weapons outside should become a suicidal enterprise again.

    REDUCE WATER AND FOOD DROPS AND INCREASE ITS CONSUMPTION AND IMPACT ON MORALE. This would vary the missions you have to do and make the game more realistic as sufficiant supplies with water and food is the main concern in any survival situation.
    If you have to worry more about your basic resources than you ahve to do by now, there will be no need to decrease the drop of high quality items. In this scenario given the player's time will already be consumed by caring about his survivors' basic needs, so the perspective of finding good equipment even less often might have a frustrating impact on average gameplay.

    INCREASE MORALE's IMPACT ON YOUR SKILLS: maybe it's due to me being lvl 50 that i don't see much of this impact, but at least the health bar could affect your skills: as long as it's green your performance will be at max, but reduced as soon as the bar gets red.

    DON'T LET SURVIVORS DIE. Just don't like the idea.

    PS: Sorry for the long text and sorry for using cap locks.
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  • 2
    How about reanimators?

    Some random infected got extra life, rising again(probably after x time) unexpectedly.

    This would increase the number of zeds at an instant, and becomes more threatening to survivors since some are just within close range...
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  • 1) Gradual increase of spawned zombies (maybe noise-related)
    2) Malus when using non proficient weapons (like -50%)
    3) Breakable weapons\gears (maintenance needed with resources)
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  • Zombies
    *Increase spawn rate.
    *Slightly increase likelihood of encountering Bruiser/Armored zombies.

    Resources
    *Increase consumption rate for Food and Water.
    *Slightly decrease overall resource drop rate.

    Survivors
    *Increase Morale's effect on stats.

    Game feels like it's already in the sweet spot for me, though, not too hard, not too easy.
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  • 1
    1) Perhaps you could make the repair times for defensive structures longer. Seems silly to have times at all if its only 5 minutes. :)

    2) Maybe have some kind of penalty for raiding people/not raiding people.

    3) Make other buildings destructible besides defensive structures.

    That's all i've got for now.
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  • 1
    1. Huge reduction in the amount of food/water loot from locations such as security/warehouses,
    - Haven't considered making a "supply" run for food or water since level 7 as i've been maxed on both
    2. increase the consumption rates per day/hour dependent on the amount of survivors.
    3. reduce the amount of overall loot, within 5 missions i can easily have 30+ junk weapons and gears,
    - it doesn't reflect survival if i can overlook a damaged shotgun because i have 50 highly polished well oiled carbines in storage.
    4.Higher spawn rates in open air maps to reflect "horde" area's
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  • 1
    Defending your compound of zombies and raiders must have ammo cost, for real.
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  • 1
    maybe slow survivors when they have low hp, have no more ideas right now, but i want post here.
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  • - As we all know, zombies are most dangerous in hordes, so I suggest doing something with that. Maybe just random attacks during missions, similair as TLS: Union City. So run or stand your ground will be your only option.

    - Dramatically increase the amount of water, food and especially weapons you can find. People should be really glad they find an AK47 for example, even if it is not green, blue or purple one. Makes it more realistic as well, and people will be more motivated to search for them.

    - This one probably won't count, cause it needs to be added, but I'll say it after all ;)

    Add rival gangs controlled by AI. They can attack your compound once a day for example, and also encounter them during missions, as they are looting places as well. Will bring more action and gunfight to the game.
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  • I’m excited
    Zed should have more varity, at present i see Slow|Normal|Fast Speed, Normal|Knockback Attack, Low|Medium|High HP.
    So some zed type should spice up (must need new animation too).

    1.Zed that have ARMOR (police, HERC, etc.) should be nearly the same as in TLS:UC
    1.0 They have armor that mean
    1.1 Pistol & SMG do (nearly) no damage
    1.2 Shotgun make them struck and do damage in the next shot
    1.3 LMG & AR must do some damage to armor before get through
    1.4 Sniper (that can penetrate armor) do (nearly) full damage
    1.5 Sharp Melee do reduced damage while Blunt Melee do (nearly) full damage
    1.6 Attack them from behind increase chance to ignore armor
    1.7 Critical chance may stay the same to all weapon

    2. DOG!
    2.0 They not human so they behave differently
    2.1 They small and fast so when they moving firearm that have long-aim time can 'MISS' easily
    2.2 They jump at you at short distance (4-6 length is fine)
    2.3 When they at melee length they will occationally 'DODGE' your attack
    2.4 If they get hit, they knockback farther than normal zed because they small

    3. FATMAN
    3.0 That big chunk of meat is not just for show
    3.1 If they get hit, they knockback shorter than normal zed because they big
    3.2 They should move slower than runner (currently some are too fast) just slow|normal|semi-fast speed
    3.3 Their Meat chunk cause your attack to do less critical chance
    3.4 On the other hand they have attack with more critical chance than normal zed
    3.5 If they got damage from SHOTGUN|MELEE and they are near your face, you got debris splash at you cause you to lost focus and need to aim weapon or ready stance again

    Just this sample choose make you froze when meet them in mission or defending compound
    • Oh about Food/Water
      Usage rise when someone go out (use more stamina), when someone injured (they loss blood, etc) which make sense.

      All structure in compound can get damaged during PvE and PvP, prevent player from put out any struture that invicible (not realistic) << if this not make game overload with data @-@.

      Suvivor that go scavenging have limited space (15-30 item / survivor or 40-80 item / trip), if exceed limit you have to choose before they can comeback.

      ----------------------------------------------------

      Misc (considered the following is ADD feature ?, but should have)
      Survivor that not rest enough may be exhaust(?) and need to sleep or something, prevent them from go outside but still can defend compound.

      All structure have life cycle and need maintainance/repair
      ex. Construction yard (15 days + use a lot of resource), barricade (7-10 days + use minimum resource)

      Randomly (5-14 days ?) Have Rain/Storm (not nesscesary to put in SFX) to reduce Resouce in Storage that placed outdoor.
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  • I’m excited
    1
    zombies wielding weapons, such as axes, hammers, machetes and maybe some guns (but having poor accuracy). They will present more of a threat to survivors.
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  • 1
    Assuming that harder means "more challenging gameplay", here's my list:

    1) food and water importance. (short summary: long-term stocks should be irrelevant, but short term, daily gameplay, should definitely feature the survival aspect. It shouldn't be possible to get more food/water than you need just by doing 5 missions in weapon locations, which is about the only thing I do last 2 months)

    2) ranged attacks, be it from zed or from NPC raiders. (yea, it's "adding" something, but at least in case of zed, it could be considered a modification. Give HERC, military and police zeds (not all of them) guns.

    3) zed horde strength should be "tuned" to be always slightly stronger than DPS of defenders present. Meaning that you should really NEED at least some traps or very optimized compound layout to never take damage to your defenses.
    (Note that I'm not using traps for two reasons - first I don't need them and second, it's a hassle to rebuild them. Could we get a "repair all" button for defenses, and could traps be not removed, but rather depleted on use?

    4) again not sure if it counts as adding - but injuries in missions should come with more significant penalties by default, possibly mitigated by some effort. (injury system proposal describes it)

    5) Ammo rarer at high levels. (Not sure how it's at low levels, but I just ran missions using 3 FALs, 1 DRS-12, 2 TMP-9s, 3 sportshot .45s and one Marion, and with 4 streets and one suburban street, the net loss was about 150 ammo. Meaning that with just ammo drop-offs, I'm not really forced to worry about ammo.

    6) Varied Zed density in missions. Instead of just "level X infected" in every location within an area, introduce infection levels (number of zed per spawn wave), making some locations significantly tougher (with better/more loot, though). Right now, 2man missions with level 34 survivors in level 23 areas are absolutely a piece of cake, and given how small is the impact of their levels on their skills, I don't think that level 23 survivors would do significantly worse. But I don't want the game to be difficult and tough for everyone.
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  • 1
    The simple answer is, you die easier. They die fairly easy, you should too. You get bit, scraped, you're f'ed. "Welcome to not real life" I know this. Either way if the players had less health that'd make heavy vests more useful (if it can stop a bullet it can stop a bite) and make the game more challenging. PVP wise mostly everything is spot on, you take a round and you go down.

    I think the game plays hard for new players from what I've seen on the chat but since release I haven't had too hard of a time (cept other players executing me..)
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  • I’m confident
    Every container, vehicle, shelf, junk pile, and so on is lootable, BUT there's a catch, Most items like weapons, gear resources, blah, blah, blah are way harder to find. Instead you're more likely to find junk items more often. also reducing amount of resources you get when recycling a item.
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  • 2
    Here is my idea:
    Make the survivors die.
    Survivors has a chance die when be injured.
    And it took a few days after can you have a chance regain a new survivor.
    Player have to train the new survivor start at level 1.
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  • 1
    Could remove dodging while scavenging. Makes 1 and 2 man missions much much harder. Does so without being annoying frustrating or just plain silly.

    Oh wait. You just did that. Right, well carry on then.
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  • have zombie attacks more dfficult and more common and based on the amount of survivors in the compound
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  • 1
    When I had low level (less than 20), missions were quite challenging. Every time I used 3-5 survivors. Now on 47-th I can successfully complete missions with 2 or even 1 survivor. So to make the game harder for 23+ players I propose for high-level locations (22-23) to link zombie strength not to mission level, but player level, like in zombie compound raids.
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  • That would make the game harder in its current unfinished state.
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  • My idea for making the game more difficult would have to be new code, so sorry in advance for breaking with that rule right off the bat. Also, sorry that this has already been stated, but I fleshed out the idea before reading the comments so that I could articulate it better.

    Basically, we're finding and using old, discarded and generally abused weapons and gear. Why not require periodic repairs? Perhaps repairs or cleaning before we can use what we find? The weapons and gear would essentially accumulate damage (until they are guaranteed to break), and after any mission could be found to be unsuitable for further use (random chance) and therefore require immediate maintenance.

    I see the option of having a certain material cost from all three main resources, with the possibility of also needing a "donor" item or recycled parts.
    -Donor items could be from the same item class
    **Healing, footwear, vest, long rifle, etc.
    -The same item type
    **FAL, AK-74, Pocket Knife, Bandolier, etc.
    -Or the exact item type
    **Same exact level and stat modifiers

    The repairs would have a certain efficacy, probably boosted by the use of donor item or parts, and a repaired or refurbished item would have some temporary, slight random stat boosts (a la Crafting bonus) that diminish with time and disappear before the repairs are needed again.

    *Weapons require mainly wood and metal, with some cloth for repair
    *Most gear items requiring mainly cloth, plus some metal and wood
    *Ammo mods require ammunition or ammo crafting parts as well

    With that system, rather than just toss or recycle the non-rare items, we would need to keep some for repairs, continually be on the lookout for even poor-quality items, and maybe have the option to remove negative modifiers. For better effect, this would have to be implemented along with a reduction in weapon and gear drops.

    TL;DR : Items can break, and then be repaired with resources and/or similar items (no fuel cost)
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  • 1
    Zombies should wander into the compound whenever we're online. The wave attacks can still occur with warning, but I'd like to be forced to fight off a wandering few whenever I play. If you ignore them, they'll chip away at your defense and maybe kill a player or two if you're not paying attention. The base should never be safe.
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  • 1
    Base hordes are harder, or have a random difficulty within a range of acceptable parameters so you never know how difficult the horde will be.

    Mini hordes spawn during missions, as in UC. Zombies spawn over one second until cap is hit, all zombies know where you are.

    Accuracy penalty vs dogs.

    Decrease melee dodge rate by 50% or more.

    Zombies with weapons, as seen in previous LS games.
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  • OK So back to the original rules of the question which I completely missed:

    1) Cannot add anything new.
    2)Must stick to the existing framework.

    I see this as a very simple and satisfying solution, make the drops in the building exactly what they advertise. Granted every building should have a chance at fuel and all should contain junk, that's just the nature of the world, there is junk in every room of every building in the world, and a few have some local currency.

    However when you go into a security building and it only advertises weapons:



    Why is it that it gives everything but weapons in mass quantities? And what grocery store has more ammo than a gun store? Seriously, I wouldn't mind shopping there with my wife more often if you could tell me that.




    Make the building actually provide rewards on par with the level of the building being searched. Seriously this is the 4th copy of this print I have found in lvl 22 and 23 areas, and thats not counting the 6 or so I scraped just to make room for more:



    This would add a real degree of challenge to those that do not have the DM2 upgrade, and would make the player have to make the very real decision of trying for better weapons or getting that much needed food. Granted for those of us that purchased the upgrade it would mean we would actually have to visit the hospitals and residences to try and get better gear, but isn't that why you guys put gear in those buildings and not the security ones? I know cops love their donuts but should I really pull 100+ food from a single police station? This is supposed to be a year after the collapse, not even my beloved twinkies will last that long, especially with Hostess going under.
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    • Most of what you're proposing would game the game easier, not harder :) Better schematics, more weapons to pick from? I'd gladly go and fetch the 16 food and water I need per day from the local shops with 5-15 minutes return time :)
    • Actually it would make things more difficult. In the above example I would have found the ammo, fuel, axe, all that junk and one decent schematic, being a lvl 22 building it could have been a lvl 19 weapons schematic, but the rest of the gear, food and water would not have been found.

      Basically it would have worked out that only one of those lockers and boxes would have had anything in it. The desks, backpacks and bodies would have been empty and the water coolers and metal stack would be removed.

      If we started hitting higher level buildings and only found one or two items in any searched area and only a few of those actually resulted in anything we would have to hit more buildings just to find stuff. It would also reduce the a mount of gear we are scrapping thus making it harder to find crafting parts. How many hundreds of buttons, plates, vests and straps have you got stored up from all those scrapped vests, or trigger assemblies and firing pins from all those useless AKs?

      As to your comment about hitting the local shops just to get the food and water you would need for each day, yes that makes perfect sense, which is probably why they should increase the amount of food and water needed per person per day. It takes a lot of calories to run an entire days worth of combat missions, and lots of water to stay hydrated while doing it.

      If we could add something I would suggest food and water costs to run missions, but that isn't in the guidelines of the question asked. 3 food and 5 water per person per 30 minute mission is about right. That is after all the average that we needed to run a RL 6 hour mission. Which is what I am guessing it would really take in this survival situation. Since you would have to spend one run to scout a location, and the travel time to get to it, but con hasn't added the travel to timer since it would kill game play. Think I am kidding about it taking longer in RL, try walking across town in the dark.

      Granted you won't be worried about dodging zombies right now, unless you live in South Central or some other gang filled crime zone. By the time you get to where you are going you will need to eat to get a quick burst of energy before the battle inside, some water to quench your thirst from the long walk and sneaking to get there. Then you will need some dehydrated food to settle your nerves after the battle and a quick drink to wet your whistle before the quick run home. Once you get home you will be starved and dehydrated from carrying all the goodies you just found. But you probably get the point.
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  • I’m confident
    Make ammunition super rare and indroduce Bow tech weapons which are effective but not as effective as guns.
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  • -Possibility of a big mob of zeds appear while mission. Maybe this can be linked to the noise of the weapons carried. The mob, if beaten, will give low exp.

    -Possibility of getting hurt or crippled while mission and compound attacks. Use of a medipack on action to remove this. Any injury removed at camp automatically. The effect can be maximum health cap reduced.

    -Possibility of jam weapons based on attacks per second while mission and compound attacks. Aditional recharge to remove this.

    -Gradual wearing out of the weapons used, repaired at compound with crafting and proper tools/resources. Add a bonus of not wearing to some gear.

    -Do content "special hard" with decent reward.

    -Not all zeds killed for sure. They can be reanimated later at random.

    -Make the compound need maintenance with resources.

    -Very small possibility of get friendly fire, but hey, its there...

    -Increase time of healing and scavenging, particularly healing.

    -Increase the time of aim for most weapons. Not the same a pistol than a assault rifle. Basically, more range equal to more aim time.
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  • what about faties whit kevlar you know militar faties zombies, ucpd fates zombies whit kevlar to, i see to much american fatie police and militar even in mexico theres fatie police and i from there so why not? fatie zombies whit kevlar riot shel(optional only for police), fatie zombies whit melee weapons like in union city, so what do you think?
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  • I’m Sanguinary
    I think that the four changes that I would implement would be having the attack speed of melee weapons decrease throughout a level after hits, as the melee fighter's arms got tired, I would create a durability rating on items giving them a small chance to break and become unusable every mission, I would add a single zombie in every mission that appears with two minutes left with fifteen times the health and damage of a normal zombie (pity that he or she can't wear the clown costume from previous episodes of the game), and I would add "sicknesses" as events in-base that could adversely affect individual traits of a character's stats for a few days and spread to other characters if they go on missions together (since mice and vermin are not under control, they can't clean their clothes well and the survivors are forced to move a large number of dead bodies and sometimes eat rotten food). You could have Dysentery increase water consumption for a character and decrease their health for a few days, Trench Foot slow down the character and lower their morale for a few days, Rabies, Sepsis, Nervous Breakdowns, PTSD, a veritable "Oregan Trail" of maladies and misfortunes! I always enjoyed in the "rebuild" series how characters could lose their eyes and limbs permanently and it altered their appearance. Hundreds of potential health problems would be epic!
    • Potential additions to build from the sicknesses include a new "medicine cabinet" structure for the base (as are present in the hospital) to speed up recovery of characters, hospital missions centered around finding a specific type of medicine to prevent a character from going "critical" (totally unusable for a week) with alternate opportunities to trade fuel with the store for the cure, findable diagnostic "blueprints" which are manuals for curing certain serious and persistent diseases with the proper equipment and medicine (once again both tradeable for fuel in the store), and raiding parties able to steal copies of medical diagnostics from searching the medical cabinets of their neighbors.
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  • In all fairness, suggestions from level 30+ player on how to make lvl 23- missions more interesting miss the point. These missions will be easy for us, and should be.

    Increasing horde attack difficulty across levels seems like a good idea, and one players of any level are 'qualified' to comment on. Making horde level = 1.5 * player level should be simple enough. And would make that aspect of game play interesting again.

    Increasing water/food consumption not just by survivor number but also by buildings would help keep food and water relevant as player level increases. IE, water usage increases with level of washing station. That way obtaining water can remain difficult but achievable at low levels, but remains important at higher levels.
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  • 2
    -make some containers locked, needing engineers to unlock them before they can be searched
    -make guns jam
    -
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  • I’m happy
    From a beginner point of view, less but more useful loot / items, and more choices so that our compounds do not all look the same (ex : no limit of 5 spike barriers ... let us build 10 of 20 barriers if we like, or more floodlight, with more battery arrays ... and so on)

    And a longer delay before being allowed to go back to places we already explored (like the starting position, which allows for many automated 5 minutes missions, to grab plenty of things to feed the recycler). Not one day, but several at least. This way we'll be obliged to take risk, exploring farther away. In more dangerous areas. Or even to raid other compounds, instead of safely exploring the same areas every day.

    Generally, it seems the city is too safe, and when you're hurt you heal really fast, without the need of a medic (why did they built hospitals before the zombie apocalypse if we can auto heal ...). And there is too much ammunitions too.
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  • To make the game more challenging, you need only to look at your previous title, Union City.

    Bring back the riot shield and weapon zombies.

    Unattached survivors: That house or store you decide to scavenge might just be home to around five or six cutthroats with AK's.

    Expanding on the previous: Ambushes by said survivors. You're raiding a street, and all of a sudden, an M24 and several M4's pop out of a window and start shooting.
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  • 1
    browsing through all those suggestions I'm thinking of adding some price to go looting for melee survivors.
    Possibly paying in resources as the melee weapons degrade or simply have a higher consuption of food and water cost for travelling all over the city
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  • - The less survivors you send on a mission, the more XP you gain
    - Less food and water, more impact on moral, more impact on survivors stats
    - Improve PvP (finding schematics -> will have use consume fuel)
    - Zombies hordes lvl in every zone may be equal to our lvl (+/- 20 %)
    I am lvl 38, I only go in lvl 18-23 zones
    - "Naked in the streets" achievement: no gear, only kitchen knifes
    - Harder to kill zombies + Aztek Tzk "INCREASE THE NUMBER OF ZOMBIES SPAWNING GRADUALLY"
    - limit scavenger's bag capacity
    - & Naked girls of course
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  • 1
    hardder u ask ?

    -if loot needed repairs now and then
    -if gear needed reapirs now and then
    -if players got sick with the zombie desise when hurt and thay need More time to recover
    -hord attacks ( random) in building and you got to get out becuse its never ending O.o
    -if you do a misson at the same time and place with another player u may fight ?
    -being able to loot dead players for loot ( this would make more pvp )
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  • in-mission achievements. (with ongoing notice effect in mission)

    time limited safe zone touch down achievement.
    - give some usage to our boots

    empty the magazine achievement
    - reach the required amount of bullet firing.
    - encourage the users to use lower dmg & higher attack speed machine guns / bandoleer / mags / ammunition pouch etc.

    time limited empty the bin achievement
    -scavenge everything in time
    - boots or glove

    marksmanship achievement
    - if you finish the mission with no bullet missing the targets
    - reason to use weapon clearing kits

    obstacles in mission
    - give us a reason why we must bring at least one melee weapon.

    debris thrower female or kid zombie
    - let the zombies throw debris of junk or debris of destroyed obstacle
    - give us a reason why we must bring at least one ranged weapon.

    or aboves as survivor requested task. (hey leader we need to practice this)
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