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Con (Official Rep) September 26, 2012 04:48

The Problems with Melee

a.k.a - Operation: Melee Love



We know there's problems melee its current state. With all the talk that's come out of the ammunition as a resource thread, we thought it was time to take a closer look at how we're working to improve it.

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Problem: Survivors chasing unalerted AI Zombies
Solution: Zombies didn't sense survivors being very close to them without seeing them. So if a survivor was chasing behind, they'd never notice them. They do now.

Problem: Survivors don't react to teammates being attacked
Solution: This was a problem with our melee AI, survivors were more concerned about not straying too far from where you'd sent them. They'll now deal with threats to nearby teammates as needed.

Problem: I can't attack zombies without taking damage
Solution: We've buffed the minimum range for survivors to emulate their anticipation for attack. Bottom line, survivors will nearly always get the first hit in, depending on their weapon's attack speed of course.

We're also looking at hit reactions for the zombies too, other than knockbacks, that will break their attack animations briefly, letting you get more hits in.

Problem: Melee feels slow
Solution: That's because it is! We're looking at increasing the attack speeds of a lot of the melee weapons to make the combat feel snappier. We'll have to bring the damage down to compensate that change slightly.

Problem: The attack animations are repetitive
Solution: They sure are. For both humans and zombies, we're adding more
animation variety. We're also randomizing the animation speed to mix things up a bit as well visually.

Problem: Not all classes are good with melee
Solution: While not all the classes are designed to be good with every weapon type or even good at combat at all, we are looking to balance it out. At the moment, survivors don't level at all in Ranged Combat or Melee Combat if they're not specialists at it. This is going to change.

In addition to this, we're looking at making specific weapon classes good for certain survivor classes. Recons + Medics good with Blades - Scavengers good with blunts etc.

Problem: Not enough weapon variety
Solution: As mentioned in the other thread, there'll be a lot more higher level weapon drops.

Problem: Melee looks and sounds weak
Solution: We're enhancing the look and feel of the melee and the weapon combat as we speak.

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So did we miss anything?

What problems do you have with melee?
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  • i understand the need for the melee update and appreciate all the effort that it required. however, having said that, i am a little confused with the zombie 'kung fu'. Are we to believe that they are all masters (in their previous human life) and retain the knowledge, and motor skills to kick their way into melee. I am led to believe from the history of zombie everywhere, that they lead with their mouths/hands, more grabbing /biting than UFC/krav maga!! is it going to stay this way?
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  • I do not mind the direction this is taking, with ammo becoming a resource. I would however like to see a bit more attention given to balance in terms of melee vs firearms.

    At the given moment, running missions in lv 20 areas such as streets, security firms, and warehouses. I was at one point able to run the areas with 2 firearm laden survivors, so long as I was careful. This being part of the issue, I can understand the desire for change. As of the current update it is nigh impossible for a 2 man firearm team to cover such an area without serious loss of "life" or flat out retreating and never getting to objective areas. So in this case it seems mission accomplished in bringing the tone down on firearms.

    The issue it now seems to me is on the flipside, I was able to, (again with care and consideration.) run the same mission where 2 firearm survivors failed, with 1 survivor and an aluminum bat.

    Just bringing it up for testing and balance reasons. The run was made by a lv 35 scavenger, with a lv 19 bat.

    Best of luck, keep at it!
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  • yup that's realy a PROBLEM becuase sometimes i let me other surviivors take the blood luster then some other time they can't attack the other zombies to kill them
    (i let the other survivor equip glasses while they have melee weapons (LOL) and somtimes it works)
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  • I’m confident
    Would be awesome if fire weapons could be used as melee weapons when out of ammo or when ennemies (Zombs or other survivors) are at close range.

    I suggest it because for now reloads are synonyms to immident death when surrounded by ennemies. When a Zomb push you, it stops the reload. Idem for scavenging.
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  • Of note, Ammunition Mods increase damage of melee weapons.

    https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...
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  • Am i the only one thinking in Melee weapons as a secondary weapon? (maybe occupying the 3rd slot that is currently locked) for example give some cartridges to a weapon per mission, for example, 2 cartridges for a M249, since ammo is scarce or 7 cartridges to a venom-MP, considering they are pistols and ammo is easy to find (This can be showed to players in the Capacity stat with the form of "Capacity of Cartridges" X "Number of Cartridges) also this cartridges cost some ammo from your current stash (ammo cost of the weapon). Meanwhile, on the mission players will be free to choose between using melee weapons to conserve ammo or the actual firearm is things go nasty.
    I think this would be the only way to make melee weapons actually useful in the game, noise is cool but still its pretty simple to finish missions with machine guns and late game weapons. And ammo costs will not be really a problem as long as you can craft and scavenge it.

    Also, to avoid "weapon variety" thing, why not remove the lvl cap of the weapons? i know that there are better weapons than others in real life, but i can't believe how an automatic (or even standard back bored) shotgun gets owned by a marion's trident. removing the lvl cap of weapons will create much much weapon diversity other than the standard M249, M-24 and Ak-74 that most of us use on later lvls.

    Well thats my suggestion, hope you like it
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  • melee weapons are secondary weapons.

    the point of ranged weapons is to do damage from a distance.

    You have a knife? a bullet does more than a knife, and from far farther. high caliber weapons are like shooting swords.
    ================
    they really need to remove the boxing/kicking zombies. its laughable that instead of grabbing and biting, they are now kickboxers.
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  • To be completely honest, I don ́t like melee. Why going for the close kill, putting the survivors at harms way, when they can do the same from a safe distance? But also get the point, ammo doesn't grow on trees. Maybe there could be a weapon with both firepower and melee capabilities. I ́m thinking, why not equipping bayonets to the M-16 and the AK's? That way when zombies are far, survivors can shoot them, and when things get personal, survivors can stab their way out.
    I mean, there's a reason why the modern infantry soldier still carries a bayonet as part of their equipment.
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    • you could just aim for the nose eyesocket or other weak point in the skull and to be honest ANY weapon ever made out side of fiction was designed for the living and many including knives which many bayonets double as are still effective against zombies
    • those targets you mentioned are small targets. which not only makes them hard to hit on a moving target no less, but also makes the knife bigger then the hole in the skull.

      look up the modern bayonets in use today. they are big broad multitool, not the narrow thrusting blades of the past.
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  • melee is already OP
    edit: like it shall be ;)
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  • I’m annoyed
    Why are people forgetting about the stock? It's so easy to use as a melee weapon, and the method is part of standard military training. You maintain your grip on the forend, place your dominant hand on the top of the gun, and swing the stock into the side of the target's head. Or raise the gun above your passive shoulder and ram the butt into the target's face.

    And why is nobody talking about pistol-whipping? Just hold your handgun by the barrel and use the grip like the head of a hammer.
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    • Yeah, come on Billy. Everyone knows zombies are immune to stunning. Its basic make believe biology.
    • Only lifing organisms need to worry about concussions. it is indeed well established, both in the mythos in general and in TLS specifically.
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