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Con (Official Rep) October 08, 2012 23:41

Understanding the DPS changes.

Thought I'd give a quick run down of the changes we've made to DPS.

Base Stats
Here's our example weapon:


This is the weapon stats in the inventory. It's base stats.

Equipped Weapon Stats
Let's have a look at how equipping a weapon to a survivor effects it's stats.


As you can see - weapons are affected quite a bit by the survivors they're assigned to. For the medic, you can see that the ammo mod he has on is increasing his base damage but his accuracy is very low.

The Recon on the other hand is a higher level than the medic, he's also specialized with this weapon type, adding 10% to his damage and accuracy.

Survivor Skills
The skills of survivors equipping weapons affect weapon DPS dramatically. In the case above, the ranged combat skill of the Recon is almost double that of the Medic. In these extreme cases, the result is obvious.

Skill with a weapon type only affects accuracy.

The Old Formula
In the old DPS formula, we ignored things like bursts, reload times and capacity of weapons. The formula went something like this:

DPS = Average Damage * Attacks Per Second * Accuracy

The New Formula
The new formula takes into account burst fire and capacity as well as reload times. This provides a better average DPS and gives more precise DPS for weapons with high fire rates and low capacity:

DPS = (Capacity * Average Damage * Accuracy) / ((Capacity * (Attacks Per Second + Burst Delay Per Shot)) + Reload Time)

Hope this clears things up for you guys. Any questions feel free to ask.
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  • Dps is clear to inderstood , since now u calculate correctly . Can explain why nerfed the bloodluster????
    • view 3 more comments
    • Even with the nerf, BBB is still quite powerful enough. An engineer with it can still clear any map alone without worrying about health.
    • BBB is still king of melee... Before the nerf it was just ridiculous! If you get around on the forums a bit you will even see that the nerf was announced by officials because the previous buff to that weapon was to big!
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  • This reply was removed on 2012-10-08.
    see the change log
  • https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...

    could you please have a look at this? it's really confusing :/ (and somehow someone seems to have changed the name o.ô very strange)
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  • I’m amused
    Love the update, don't love the illegitimate complaints about it however. Other than the DPS recalculation, bruisers, improved melee, etc. there is nothing different about the game. Hell, going all guns in missions is still viable if you can handle a bit of micro with your survivors (Until the ammo update of course).
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  • We know about the class specialization bonuses, but are there now class penalties for using non-specialized weapons?
    The HC by itself already had 99% accuracy (1st image), but when the medic has it equipped, accuracy drops way down to less than 60%. And neither character has an accuracy gear mod equipped.

    If there are penalties for using the wrong weapon type, its the first I ever heard of it . . .

    Also, since people are just crying about the supposed nerf of DPS, can you all post a before and after pic of an identical item. I.e., Lvl18 M24 pre- and post-update. (I know you all have a backup of v1.08 lurking in your computers there, somewhere.)
    Just so people can see that the DPS CALCULATION changed, and not the weapon stats themselves.

    Just to shut the damn whiners up.
    (I understand the changes, but some of the more mentally-challenged players just don't get it.)
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  • The modifier to Attacks Per Second seems to be screwed up. Short version of what I posted this morning, after looking at a few weapons - https://getsatisfaction.com/deadzone/...

    - The UMP-45 (and AK-74) and the pick hammer get much less than the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.
    - Most melee weapons and the M24 are within the margin of rounding to the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.
    - The M1911 (and Tauron) get much more than the indicated bonus from APS modifiers.
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  • i don't like the new DPS calculation at all....

    Also i don't like the fact that now the attack speed has been replaced by attacks per second...it is very confusing....we all were used with the old display and now all is changed .

    Also the fractionar range like 12.34 is very annoying as well...i liked more how it was with integer numbers.

    Also the dps seems way to low , maybe it is correct , but compared to what it was before now it all seems strange...

    i probably need 1 - 2 weeks to adjust myself to the new system but i don't know if i'll stay on this game for that long....since all that dot something something is making us dizzy.

    this should be fun , we should not stay all the time with a calculator near us to see which weapon is better...there is no clarity or simplicity.

    And by the way i am a programmer (html, vb, actionscript etc) and i still dont like all this .
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    • xanghel;
      i don't like the new DPS calculation at all.... (I love them thank you Con, now noobs can know the best weapons to equip with ease, advantage gone! )

      Also i don't like the fact that now the attack speed has been replaced by attacks per second...it is very confusing....we all were used with the old display and now all is changed. (Attacks per Second actually make more sense – never understood what attack speed meant or how it worked except for guessing faster or slows with 0 time comparison!

      Also the fractionar range like 12.34 is very annoying as well...i liked more how it was with integer numbers. (I too would like the rounded up version so we can fire longer ranges! [I.e. 12.34 = 13])

      Also the dps seems way to low , maybe it is correct , but compared to what it was before now it all seems strange... (Before it was exactly the same - use the same weapon on the same PvE raid (Not the balanced ones) and it will work EXATLY the same way! Same damage per the 5min will be done! Except now we can tell without a calculator which weapons do more damage per 5min PvE raid!)

      i probably need 1 - 2 weeks to adjust myself to the new system but i don't know if i'll stay on this game for that long....since all that dot something something is making us dizzy. (I’m staying, I’m not dizzy, makes way more sense to me now thank you Con!)

      this should be fun , we should not stay all the time with a calculator near us to see which weapon is better...there is no clarity or simplicity. (Exactly what the new DPS calculation are for you don’t need a calculator anymore!!! Now everyone has the same advantage in knowing which weapon is higher in DPS!)

      And by the way i am a programmer (html, vb, actionscript etc) and i still dont like all this . (Uhm, don’t really know what that has to do with anything but I’m Rocket Scientist and I love it!)
    • I cannot understand why somebody would complain "I don't like the new calculation" and "it seems very low". The explanation is quite clear, and it's obvious that the previous numbers were grossly inflated, and not by a flat percentage, but differently for various weapons. What's not to like about seeing the REAL numbers? What's to like about numbers that were just plain wrong?

      And I like the precise numbers more. No more complaints about "how come that it says I get the bonus, but the value is the same"
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  • hello con, i am all for this new DPS calculation even the up coming update but i must admit, i was a lil disappointed about the bloodluster nerf.

    wat i dont understand is this, i was talking to my friend last night and he was upset about how his supressed weapons which he crafted with fuel has disappeared after the update.

    after he pointed it out, i looked into my inventory and i also discovered that my blue surpresssed AK74 and surpressed M4A1 are also missing.

    so my question is, wat happened to our guns? will we ever get them back? or should we just consider this as unforunate and isolated rollback incident...?
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  • with blood luster its not fair. you kill people too easy on pvp........
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  • Im still not 100% sure how reload time factors into DPS. Is it timed based like how many rounds you can fire off in a set amount of time? Or is it based on how much damage you do after so many rounds?

    Otherwise I honestly cant see a reason to factor in reload time.
    • Steve (Official Rep) October 09, 2012 02:58
      DPS is the average damage the weapon will inflict within a second. All values included in the calculation are averaged, and anything that affects the ability to output damage needs to be factored in.

      This includes: weapon capacity, accuracy, average damage output, fire rate, average burst time and reload time.

      The longer the reload time, the more amount of time is spend NOT doing damage. Therefore, taking longer to inflict damage over any given period of time.
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  • Why was there a need for this change? Didn't seem necessary in my opinion.
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  • I’m undecided
    Take 7 the the second power times it by three figure out what square root is and hope there's pie left. Equals too hard for so little fun. Rule one (K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid. Shoot till they die end of drill.
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  • Thanks Con, it's way more clear for me now. :)
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  • I’m neutral
    Just a note — you sneaky (maybe more-so insidious) guys said in your earlier preview to the patch/change that you wouldn't change the DPS of weapons/guns, but you actually did! (not that I have a problem with that alone — in fact weapon balance is an important thing)
    particularly you substantially nerfed the M1911 for some crazy reason. You guys don't even mention the specific weapons you've changed, or by how much — that seems a bit disingenuous/uncaring.
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  • I’m thankful
    The skills of survivors equipping weapons affect weapon DPS dramatically. . . the ranged combat skill of the Recon is almost double that of the Medic.

    Well, that solved my question as to why my Leader had higher damage with the new Survival Axe he's holding.

    It doesn't look like much of an increase to me at first, but seeing enough of posts about the zombie hordes at higher levels, I guess that extra damage is going to help in cleaning up the stronger enemies off my compound.

    Glad you didn't forget about the lvl 20+ survivors. Thanks.

    P.S. Also another good reason to increase my Leader's fighting skill too. I was already thinking of dumping some of it into the medic skill.
    Heal fast, get back into battle faster. :P
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  • There's something that I find being confusing and counterintuitive : why should the damage range vary according to the survivor who uses the weapon ?

    In your example the basic rifle damage range is 27-38.
    If used by a medic it turns to 29-40 (with a +5,8% bonus from the ammo).
    When used by a recon it moves to 32-45 (without any ammo bonus).

    How a bullet coming from the same rifle could cause more damage when the survivor is more skilled ?

    Let's take an example. Imagine DZ is a car racing game. Each character has is own racing skill and can drive various cars. How could a Ferrari with an engine factory limited to 160 mph could be driven up to 190 mph by a talented pilot, despite its 160 mph absolute limit ?

    To me, the only characteristics which should vary upon survivor’s skill are accuracy and range (which makes sense I think). If you want to add an impact on damage as well then let’s say that a skilled survivor chance of making a critical hit is higher than an unskilled one.

    Another nice addition would be an effect on reload speed. I guess when you are specialized with a weapon you’are able to reload it slightly quicker than a user who isn’t familiar with this weapon.
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    • Well, I play now just like the ammo was already limited, to get ready for the forthcoming update. I mean I don't use guns as I used to. I'm experimenting different combinations and so far I found that a 100% melee team is better than a mixed one (gun + melee).

      I haven't lost sleep either :-)
    • Agreed on this. Regularly putting rounds downrange should increase ranged-weapon accuracy (both base accuracy and chance of a critical hit) and reload speed, but it shouldn't increase damage.

      However, on the melee side, regular practice should also increase damage. As one trains with a melee weapon, one gets the strength and skill to cause more damage per hit.
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  • hey guys.. I get the damage modifiers.. and the trying to get more melee weapons into the game play.. when the zombies hit you know theirs not goign to be an ammo truck on every corner.. the problem I have is with the cr553 this is supposed to be an assault weapon(like an M-16-ak47) but it has a range of 10?? thats a submachine gun range.. I'm not sure if thats a glitch or what.. but its annoying..
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  • Con, how will we find out what the burst of the weapons are? Is it calculated within the Attacks Per Second or will we have to fiddle around with the Formula untill we get the correct number for it?
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  • I just tried out the formula on a Basic M16A2 (Although not knowing the burst delay, i got a rather awkward result)

    30 Capacity
    47.5 Accuracy
    17.5 Avg DMG
    6.32 APS
    2.5 Second Reload Time
    (30*17.5*0.475)/((30*(6.32+0didnt know burst))+2.5) Gives me 1.25 DPS :S
    Which is weird because im sure it does more, even if i knew burst delay, it would just get lower...

    Am i doing something wrong?
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  • Your formula is wrong.

    It's (30*17.5*0.475)/(30/6.32+2.5) = 249.375 / 7.24 = 34.4

    In other words, total damage from the clip gets divided by total time needed to empty the clip and reload. And the time to empty the clip is Capacity DIVIDED by Attacks-per-second
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  • This reply was removed on 2012-10-10.
    see the change log
  • This reply was removed on 2012-10-10.
    see the change log
  • This is a pretty good update. The weapons if anything are better in many ways. Even though damage is lower, the changes rate of fire and accuracy make up for it.
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  • what do you mean by 'skill with a weapon type'?
    you mean the weapon specialization?
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  • Has anyone else noted that none of the weapons match the formula? Even if we use the reciprocal of attacks/sec as Bryan correctly notes, The numbers come out different from the listed DPS. I am using a zero burst delay, but since the final answer comes out low in dps, there is no burst delay number that could make it work.

    Hell, even the melee weapons, which do not have nearly as many variables, come out wrong.
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