Add official support for Posthumous Ribbons

  • Idea
  • Updated 3 years ago
  • Under Consideration
Allow approved users to give awards to photos on the site based on certain criteria. These awards should be displayed on the photo pages, user's profile, and in some sort of award browser.
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langdon, Official Rep

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Posted 3 years ago

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Joseph Salmi

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This is a good idea but in my mind the awards should be placed on the right side of the screen and kept away from actual DPC awards... Which reminds me of another idea I had...
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NiallOTuama

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Good idea. And a browsable feature too whereby you can browse, for example, all posthumous blues, or silver sturgeouns etc.
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Oliver Hoffmann

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Let him make his own Site instead. i don't see a necessary for other than dpc ribbons
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Steve M

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There is room for more than one genre of photography at DPC.
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Oliver Hoffmann

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Just have a look at the frontpage at any given date. There is lots more than one genre at DPC.
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Manic

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I don't think that these should be treated in the same way as the official DPC awards, and should definitely be classed as a minor thing (if added at all).

That being said, perhaps a section for 'community awards' could be added lower down the page, and there be a (small) number of pre-approved/community-nominated judges giving awards out?
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Ben Spurgeon

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Limiting to a small number of people is counterproductive, but I Iike the idea of a community award section.
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Bear_Music

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I'm all for some way to promote community-sponsored Bling, for sure...
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Ben Spurgeon

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I am as well, as it spurs discussion, etc. I'm not certain yet, but I wonder what effect going mainstream would have. I know that I would prefer it not be displayed like a DPC ribbon. It needs to be separate, and supportive, of the official ribbons. Thinking out loud..
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Don Zirilli

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I think you could put it at the bottom right somewhere and it would be clearly distinguished from the DPC ribbons.
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Steve M

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Great idea. I think every user should be able to display whichever set of ribbons they feel best represents their style of photography.
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Sieg Mann

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I think the two most important things are to make the icons easier to add it to our profile, and to see a compilation of the award winners - a front page of sorts, but in a thread, or indeed, in the community awards section. Perhaps converting the PH Awards thread into a permanent section.
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Crowis

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I think that if the site is going to sanction a few unofficial awards, then it needs to be a FEW that really do come from non-community standard angles. Posthumous is excellent because it highlights photography that is not eye candy in the standard perspective. But, if we are not careful, pretty soon every user is going to have a ribbon they award, and then why even vote? I was thrilled to earn a Posthumous. . .I am also thrilled to see other users awarding secondaries. . .but, I fear that soon there will be a thousand people sporting secondary awards that do not have an ANGLE, and are thus simply validations from other users. . .and do we really need ribbons for that?
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Oliver Hoffmann

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What else but "a simple validation from another user" is a posthumous award? Is his opinion worth more than any other user's? And who defines what is a "non-community standard angle"? The community consists of thousands of users and each and every one has an opinion that is not exactly following a standard; it's just the average of votes that makes it look like there was something like a standard. The posthumous thread works the same way, only with the difference that the average of it's participants preferences is a blurry black and white image of poor quality with a pseudo-meaningful title.
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james_so

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I take offence at that last remark TBH :\
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Oliver Hoffmann

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Why? You're a part building said average but I don't know your personal preferences; you could as well be one of those guys with a good taste.
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james_so

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You have deleted your post so my reply is now out of context.

I take offence because I have participated in the posthumous ribbons threads as both a giver and receiver.
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Oliver Hoffmann

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I haven't deleted my post, you have to click on the "view x more comments" bar below your own post.

Still don't see an offense; you might want to read my post again, especially regarding the "average" part.
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james_so

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I wondered where it went :)

I take offence to this part specifically.
" it's participants preferences is a blurry black and white image of poor quality with a pseudo-meaningful title."

The implication is that the images mentioned there are of poor quality and do not deserve any accolades, just because you cannot see their qualities does not mean that others can't. Your opinion in this instance borders on an insult.

This is not the place for such discussions however, we each have our opinions, how about we leave it at that and move on.

ETA: saying average still implies that half of the photos represented in the thread are of poor quality...
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Oliver Hoffmann

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Nice of you that you clipped the essential part of that sentence. The ETA doesn't really make that better.

I do not think ALL images in the PH thread don't deserve any accolades; actually SOME are of a quality I will probably never reach; however, I do not think DPC should officially feature the selections of a small group of self-proclaimed photographic art experts (or any other group seeking recognition while not being willing to accept the majority vote).
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james_so

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I clipped it as I read it in the hope that you would be able to understand my point and ETAd it afterwards to clear up any possible misconception that I had read it incorrectly. I am sorry if that bothers you but I am still offended regardless of whether you said average or not, the implication is still the same.
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Crowis

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Oliver. I am disturbed by what I view a a mis-interpretation of what I call the "community standard". Mayhaps that was a poor term. Let me qualify. Firstly, I think most regular users of DPC understand what the collective community standard angle on photography is. . .they may use different terms to describe it though commonly the words "commercial or eye-candy" is used.

I'm not saying any one person has the right to determine this either, and while DPC has several thousand members let's not get away with ourselves. Really the number of hard-core long term users is probably under a thousand (at best) and likely under five hundred if you were harsh in your definition. But, you also proved my point about community standards by attacking posthumous awards as you did in your original reply to me. I think many of the PH winners have phenomenal photos, the just don't gel with the community as a whole. . .

Your responses to James show an artistic closed mindendness which is one of the forward reasons that PH awards (and other secondaries) are so appreciated by the community. Just because a photog chooses not to shoot in the style of the site does not make him/her a bad photographer.
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Ben Spurgeon

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The poor quality Oliver is referencing is a comment on his preference for the technically perfect. A dull argument against the PH thread. I take no offense to this comment as he is, in part, correct. These imperfections do not diminish the impact an image may have on a viewer other than Oliver. A sterile stock image is the equivalent to the images he has proclaimed as poor quality.
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Oliver Hoffmann

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Crowis and Ben, I think i am entitled to my opinion about the images in the PH thread as much as you are. That's not artistic closed-mindedness, actually it has nothing to do with art, but, as you stated, Ben, with skills or the absence of those.
You may carry on with the PH thread ad infinitum, I don't care. BUT I don#t want it as a site feature beyond that; if we compare a dpc challenge to a 110m hurdles run, it might be creative to run against, below or around the hurdles, but you cannot expect to stand on the podium after the finish.
I often asked myself, why PH and /or the likes don't make up their own site, like for example Ursula did.... if there was a certain amount of people that shared his taste it should be easy and won't interfere with the main goal of DPC, which IMO is striving for success in challenges by learning from the advanced.

BTW, Ben, you are right, minor imperfections don't take away from a good image, even someone with an MA in Applied Art can see that. And if you were informed better, you'd know that my DPC entries (of the last 2-3 years) don't sell well on stock sites.
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Crowis

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I feel like we are having a semantical issue here. My point on your close mindedness is in regards to you viewing an image which may have NO imperfections as it was shot in its format on purpose as if it were not shot purposefully that way. This is one of the issues with people who shoot non standard style. They may be viewed as shooting with a lack of perfection, but in reality, many of the "imperfections" on their shots are purposeful. Now, if they weren't going for that. . .then, yes, might be an issue. But many of the shots that win PH awards were shot in "imperfect" styles on purpose. . .thus are just as perfect as other shots.
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Steve M

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Oliver, I'm sure langdon is thrilled with your suggestion of having DPC subscibers leave DPC to start their own site. I also doubt he needs your help defining DPC goals.
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Don Zirilli

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I think you should make the process for granting awards a bit complicated, with several steps involved and consistency required. That will filter out the loonies (no disrespect, Steve M).
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Steve M

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Yes! Filter out the loonies! No soup for you!
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Steve M

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If I were King I would make Bear_Music the face of DPC and have him choose which ribbon(s) are represented. Then I would give each user the option (in their preferences) of which, if any, alternative ribbons they choose to have displayed on their profile page. Then, I would sit back and drink margaritas, made with Cointreau and real limes...
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james_so

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I'm with you on the margaritas Steve, but how about having which awards to display as being the choice of the viewer rather than the participant? That way no one will have to see PH awards unless they specifically choose to do so.
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Steve M

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sure... everything is negotiable... except for the Cointreau and Mexican limes.
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Gyaban

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Standard ribbons reflect the opinion of the majority of the voters, they are community based awards. While this have limitations, this is how DPC works, and I don't think this should be changed. Other websites work another way, with curators selecting photos they like (1X.com for example) and as far as I understood, many persons also dislike such approach, due to its subjectivity.

Posthumous ribbons (or similar ones) reflect the opinion of just one person. The mechanism to allow a person express his love for a photo is already implemented in DPC: it's called a favorite. I don't see why there should be any specific mechanism to support the fact some persons like to add little icons or pictures to show their own favorites.
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Crowis

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Christophe, you are a phenomenal photographer. I have much respect for your work and I've read a few of the interviews that you have given and find a lot of helpful tips in them. That said, you are the number 1 (or close to it) ribbon winner on DPC, so of course you don't feel the need to add any other recognition system. LOL.
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Gyaban

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Thank you! I truly understand your point, and also the fact that a whole category of photos do not get much recognition on DPC despite their own merits. However, this is to be expected on a community website, where opinions come from many different persons, with many different views and expectations. Under such conditions, very specialized and targeted photos will have a hard time emerging from the crowd. It's not totally impossible, but much harder than, let's say, a well done colorful flower cliché photo.

That being said, giving much importance to the opinion of just one (or a couple of) person would entirely change the philosophy of this website. DPC is not a curated art gallery, where its owners would be able to pick work suiting their own taste. It may be interesting, but this is not what DPC is about IMHO.
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Garry

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I have two thoughts:

1. While I, and many, appreciate the PH ribbons greatly and for what they do, I don't think you can just add official support for his. What about the Ben's Silver Sturgeon? What about Vlado's MUAIMOs? Or Ubique's Order of the Thumb? etc etc. Why one and not all?

2. I think making the PH ribbons "official" in my mind actually goes counter to what PH ribbons are about? PH ribbons are an informal, unofficial visual discussion of photo's that fall outside of the DPC box, that are unconventional, risque etc. I see the PH ribbons, and all the others, as an underground movement that looks to promote the off-center but does not seek, nor desire the limelight. Guess I equate the PH ribbon "scene" to the grunge scene of the 90's.
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Don Zirilli

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Grunge, you're right. I wanted to be Punk but ended up being Grunge. I wouldn't want it to be only my ribbons, Garry.
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Sieg Mann

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I actually agree with Gary's 2nd point, and Christophe make a good point about an award that is chosen by one person (any of the PH awards) vs. the mainstream images chosen by the collective. I do like the idea of having the PH award images appear anywhere the regular ribbons do - on the profile page under the regular ribbons, or on the right side of the profile page, and on the photo page itself. THAT I could get behind. Would also free up a lot of space on the profile page!
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Deb Fort

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The Ribbon People can keep all the ribbons - I'd just like a way to sort and find the alternate bling if possible. Say I want to find Ubique's order of the thumbs. Can we figure a way to make that possible? Owners of bling can decide if they wish to post on their profile pages as they do now.
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Don Zirilli

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I agree that this is the most important feature to me as well.
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Mark Y

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just a thought about giving recognition to the underappreciated photos.

what about having a way to vote a photo "underappreciated" after the challenge is over? maybe after a few days the shot with the most votes gets some kind of underappreciated ribbon for that particular challenge. it wouldn't have to be displayed on the front page but if you go into the challenge results, there could be clickable link to view the top underappreciated shots for that challenge.

i donno, just a thought.
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blindjustice

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If the presumption is that "the open vote" is the "way of the site" - well, than I say we take an open vote and list who we feel should be the "jury" of a sort.

I agree that somehow this extra stuff needs to be limited-or controlled, or somehow "separated", but all these extra "awards" make the site worthwhile in a far deeper way.

And frankly, its art. its all subjective anyway. Popular is not always better. If what was in museums,such as MOMA, was left to a vote, Thomas Kinkade would be in their, on every wall.
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brennanob

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How can one officially sanction an award which is intended to supplement the official awards by recognising an unpopular aethetic? If the idea is to grant " visibility to other works not aligned with the mainstream taste" hasn't an official sanction always been the death toll of the alternative?
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Steve M

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The death knell tolls only when the 'alternative' takes itself seriously. I doubt many posthumous-thread-award-winners would describe themselves as 'photographers'.
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blindjustice

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I agree, official sanction is death knell, but a way to track others appreciation of photos might work.

(as a side note, Alternative of what? Not photographers?This is outrageously insulting. remember-(The number two guy on the "useless in your opinion" posthumous awards thread just got a ribbon)

A photographer who was an artist might embrace change, rather than stay beholden to a fickle, popularity contest often dominated by wedding photographers and graphic designers-just a thought.
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Deb Fort

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I kinda consider myself a photographer. An amateur, to be sure, but a pretty dedicated (or insane) amateur photographer.
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aldo.tanca

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This comes as an afterthought, as works are on their way and everybody already expressed their opinion.
Personally, I don't care much about making official what for me is just a good way to talk photography and dig out good images I might have otherwise missed.

But I realize that what I would really like is the ability to see all images pubblished in a thread as a slideshow or sequence, with filtering per time range and post number range, perhaps with the ability to comment on the fly.
That would allow everybody to use more easily DPC for pursuing their own specific interests.

And perhaps an icon for any thumbnail and image to append the image ID to a temporary list, and an icon for dumping the tagged temporary list in a forum post, so to eliminate quite a few clicks and copy and paste.