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I’m frustrated

No RAW html editng?!

Removing the ability to edit the raw html is unacceptable. At the very least if you are in no way going to negotiate this you could have an premium service option that would reimburse the loss of your ad space on the comic and would allow us to edit the html as we wish.

MANY users are expressing dissatisfaction this thread

As a user that has prouded myself with making DD my main host since 2006 I am sad to say that without html support for my web comic the site will become simply a mirror if I even continue updating here.

My latest quote from the linked thread "I am however pretty upset at the hidden changes. If I put my comic on another FREE webhost it is because I don't know for sure if I like where Wowio is going. I'm trying to keep an open mind and even negotiate. But if I can't keep my web design updated on my main site and on DD the same with all it's interactive features for my readers then I'm still debating if I'll want to continue uploading here at all in the future.

I'm not trying to sound harsh or negative. I don't hate Wowio and I understand many of their decisions. I've just grown to require a bit more to give to my readers. I enjoy offering a fun presentation for my medium and at this point (for a web comic) to me that seems nearly as important as the comic itself.

I was almost excited when you mentioned that the current lay out will be transferred. Then I remembered I have a dropdown to display each issue I wouldn't be able to update and an interactive map that shows the locations of the story as it is advancing while I hide easter eggs I'd never be able to update. Not to mention the fact that I may someday come up with an even BETTER web design that I may wish to implement at the time."

Please allow SOME kind of way for us to edit the html
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  • This reply was removed on 2011-04-17.
    see the change log
  • I’m upset.
    From another angle...
    I have custom HTML that someone else made for me. However, I do make slight changes to my comic's HTML on occasion to update what is going on. HTML editing is by no means a feature I use a lot, but it is also a feature I would like to keep. I like to see the layouts of people that work harder and know more than me.
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  • I support this, it is fun to personalize and to add special features to your comic.
    For example I used to have a small div that showed the two most recent pages of my comic. Also, I used to write a brief summary of the ongoing chapter for new readers. Most of the popular webcomics on the web have creative ways of dealing with the "new reader" issue by adding fresh features to them, which only editing html templates can do. It is true that it was one of drunkduck's strongest features for a comic creator.
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  • I’m unsure
    Customization options give individual comics their identities. Readers don't like to be reminded that they are viewing a "hosted" comic. Somehow it cheapens things for them and it gives comics a black mark. So custom graphics are important and having layout options is a good idea too (better to be able to write your own, but if not possible--please give us options on placement of elements, font types and sizes, etc.).

    I'm not sure why customizable html is a problem. Most other places keep it without hassle and police it fine. Can't they just disallow whatever it is they are afraid of in it?

    But if they insist on re-inventing the wheel by nixing html for the sake of whatever new customization thing they are using, this is my wish list of "essentials" that I deem necessary for an actual webcomic site rather than a generic image gallery:

    ~ Link exchanges. -- These are how I (and I assume others) actually get hits/readers. Without them, DD would be a self contained little ball and eventually implode. If we cannot connect our comics to readers, our comics suffer and DD traffic suffers too.
    ~ My own buttons, backgrounds, and other site graphics. We are "artists" after all.
    ~ Extra content pages -- for story background, character bios, etc. If you have to limit the number of these, put ads on them, and have a special non-html editor for them, so be it. (It sucks to have to start from scratch just because the site was remodeled, but if that has to happen, I guess it has to happen. :P )
    ~ Our comic forums. I don't use them but some do. Any way to connect to readers is helpful.
    ~ Be able to link to other outside pages (like facebook and deviantart accounts and reviews or other points of interest for our comics)
    ~ Webcounters/trackers. I have become rather spoiled by knowing where my readers are coming from -- geographically and on the web. DD has only page stats, which do not track this. Many of us use outside services.

    So... To sum up. I'd like the ability to
    ~ Get readers/promote my site.
    ~ Keep readers.
    ~ Interact with readers.
    ~ And have stats on my readers to better able me to do those other things.

    Oh, and transferring over existing customization is nice, but if we can't update it... it's pretty terrible. One of my essential custom pages is an extended plot summary. This is necessary for my 900 page comic. I update it after finishing long arcs, and my readers appreciate having the refresher. Without it, it becomes very difficult to have any new readers. I have been working on my comic for a long time and plan to continue to do so. Webcomics are not static, so their presentation and features cannot be either.
    • This, this, this.

      I've been lurking/reading comics on Drunk Duck for a few years now. Up until recently I was 100% sure that when I launched my own webcomic, Drunk Duck would be the main host. A lot of what I've seen and read about "The Duck" is making SmackJeeves look more and more appealing, sadly.
    • Usedbooks has basically summed it up for me as well. I am a graphic designer by trade and while I haven't used the custom html for anything except for a custom title, page buttons, and "top 100 list links" I still want to have the option for adding or changing links, banners, buttons etc. in the future.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Even if there is no raw html editing there needs to be more customization and most importantly we MUST be able to place user ads, this generates hits for all concerned. Removing this only hurts DD and will result in less revnue for wowio not more.. I never make much off advertising on my comics but enough to pay for my own advertising elsewhere and that does bring in significantly more traffic. Banner swaps, link exhanges and such are vital to webcomic promotion, without it users will go elsewhere to free sites that they can do it at.

    Also, premium usage is a no no, if we are to pay for that we may as well host it all ourselves or go to another site that does it all for free, something many are already doing.
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  • Just to clarify I wasn't saying I _wanted_ premium service. I would prefer free for sure. I already pay for my own web space.

    BUT, I have always been really loyal to the DD and the readers and members there. I would rather pay a small fee so I can stay there than have to move to another free host.

    Not speaking for everyone. I'm just trying to make a satisfactory compromise cause I have invested so much in DD and hate to see everything I have done there be put in the trash when this update goes live.
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  • I’m undecided
    Being someone who never took full advantage of the HTML coding except to a very limited degree, I suppose I personally feel a little indifferent. However, I fully understand everyone's need to wanting to personalize their comics and removing the ability to edit HTML will severely hamper their ability to do so.

    DD users should retain an ability to customize their comics, if not via HTML then by some user friendly editing feature that you should be advertising, in order to calm down people.
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  • I’m frustrated
    jeeze this is the 8th time ive tried to post this. but unless the duck is willing to provide us with some actual costomizable skins which hasnt happened since the dawn of time, allowing html is the only way to have a comic have a dynamic background to stand out. ive held off on customizing mine because of the upgrades and crashes, but its not fair for us to be expected to have our pages all look identical. thats not art at all
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  • I also agree that full customization needs to be an option. I was in the middle of working on a custom layout when DrunkDuck went down at the beginning of the month. I put further work on hold with the advent of the new layout, and now I'm not sure if I want to work on it at all.

    I think it's fair to say that most users at least want the ability to upload their own header and navigation buttons. Links to other comics and/or a specific part of the Drunk Duck Store (unless that's going away) are also a must. Extras/Cast/About pages are also a frequent item that really need to be included in the customization options. And character pages shouldn't be limited to just a few characters either - if they're not rawhtml coded.
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  • From what I've heard and read, THIS is probably THE deal-breaker. I've heard from other members about how much they want to keep this access, but they are so frustrated with the new site at this point I can't convince them to make their own posts on this feedback.

    However many responses this gets, it's only a small fraction of those who want to be able to customize the html.
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  • While I only make limited use of raw html, I have to agree with general sentiment among the users here at DD. The inability to use raw html will drive a lot of both existing and potential users away. And quite frankly, while I can sort of understand their decision from both a security and business point-of-view, not being able to use it will ultimately hurt Wowio in the long term, both reputation wise and financially.
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  • I’m sad, anxious, confused, frustrated
    1
    so with no stats, no file uploads and no html raw we won't be able to, for example, check our reader numbers at all?
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  • I’m confused and frustrated
    I find it curious that there are boxes for uploading our own title banners and buttons but it's not accepting the images. I wonder if this is part of this problem. Why even have those boxes on the preview then?
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  • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 00:44
    Sorry for the delay in response... listen everyone, we are working to give you guys ALL the functionality you are looking for. This site is a public PREVIEW. It's not a finished product. We're still in the middle of implementing several of the features you guys are commenting on as missing.

    As for the RAW HTML upload capabilities, we are trying to give the community all of the capability without any of the insecurity of allowing full html content pages to be uploaded. We have had several instances of comic readers being infected by malware and spyware by folks. (Either intentionally or accidentally.) We WANT you to be able to customize your comics. That's not the issue. We have every intention of giving you guys that ability. The issue is how we go about it. We'll be rolling out the new features and functionality and see if it address the need.

    As far as missing/broken image uploaders... that is a bug, (which we are aware of and are addressing.).
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    • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 20:38
      You're right. We're working to get up a "check list" page that lists the features we have working and what is still coming.
    • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 20:39
      Hope to have that page up by tomorrow.
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  • I’m sad
    I cannot post project wonderful ads on my comic without html, and the same is true for several other linking services, banner exchanges etc.
    The idea of trying to host comics without html is just not realistic.
    I feel like the decision has already been made on this, and its too late for us to change it, but if you take away html editing you are going to drive out all the people who take their comics seriously and basically just leave the very casual authors.
    Hark
    • Yeah the lack of html editing is only partially a matter of customiszation. what is in place would be pretty good if it worked but probably insufficiant for many people. Like has been said the biggest part of it is the lack of user advertisments banner exhabges etc. Things like project wonderful, comic rank stuff, we have to have those. If that isn't changed most users will leave.
    • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 20:27
      Alex and Hark... I'm in the middle of discussions with our Ad agency about allowing Project Wonderful ads on the comic pages. We are in the middle of fixing / improving the customization tools that are currently in place on the PREVIEW site. Once we get those in and working 100%, I hope you'll feel better about it.
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  • I’m unsure
    I don't think my site would work at all without html support. I would be willing to replace my banners with the wowio banners but I don't want to lose the interactive things I have on my site like the map at the top that will change as characters move around the world and the dropdown list of comics.

    I know it looks like I haven't updated for a while. But this is very important to me as I am preparing to get rolling out updates again. Right now I'm finalizing scripts, thumbnails, and web site designs.

    Edit: I am not meaning to be snark btw if I am coming off as such. This and the name change of DD are being told to us that they are "non negotiable". I don't really mind the name. But in a community I don't like the term non negotiable. Especially when it is affecting something like this feature.

    Thank you for commenting Lawrence
    • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 19:25
      You got it Keith. I've spent all morning going over the site with a FINE-TOOTH comb with the Admins. (Ozone and Skool) You don't sound snarky at all. I appreciate the feedback. Listen, I don't want to lose any comic creators. I'm trying to accomodate you guys as best I can. I'm just trying to do it in a manner that keeps EVERYONE who visits the site safe.
    • Heh, I was going back over it and noticed I messed up reimplementing my map :P Had been recoding it.

      Most of the basic features of my site could probably be reproduced easily. I just worry most about my random images, dropdown menu, and the interactive map. Not sure how those things could be implemented with by easy to use features. Unless you mad something specifically for these just for me... XD But that'd be silly as these are not high demand features.

      I guess you could allow admins to edit html for members. As long as said members could provide the working code already so admins could see that it is acceptable. Perhaps using a bit of a credibility/seniority/admin discretion basis. Though the admins have so much work to do already.

      Thank you again :)
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  • I definitely understand not allowing the uploading of .html files, but I hope we can keep the built in html editor for out comics. Some of us just need basic things, but others like to have interactive features like image maps and scripts.

    In terms of the extra content some people use to supplement comics (and currently have uploaded pages), I know many already simply link to external sites for that, and that is probably sufficient. I do use DD to host those html files myself, but as long as I can link to it, I wouldn't mind using an external source. It is nice to keep my whole webcomic and all content self-contained on DD, so if possible, maybe there can be a built-in html editor for those additional content kinds of pages. (Sorry, I don't really understand the nature of internet security, but I gather that uploading .html and other file types is the security risk moreso than using built-in editors.)

    I would rather have some html supported (using tags in a raw editor) than having special tags (please not BB tags) or some kind of drag and drop or step by step WYSIWYG editor. I think the non-html savvy users are content with templates, and I know the more code-experienced people get aggravated by those restrictive and grade-school kinds of editors.
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  • Jacob (Official Rep) April 19, 2011 20:35
    The trick is finding a balance between a layout engine for less code-intensive types and functionality that appeases the hardcore code junkies. It's that balance that we are striving to achieve. I don't know that we will be able to do it but I think it's worth trying to do.
    • Actually, the "less code-intensive" are usually happy with templates. They typically don't care about the customization engines, and we have always had good forums, communication, and tutorials to help those with simple extra needs like adding a banner. It works well that way on DD, so I'd venture to say focus that design toward the code-savvy types. Don't dumb it down. Just cut out whatever poses a security risk, but let it allow for other advanced coding. Honestly, when I don't know how something works, someone who does offers cut-and-paste. The DD community does very well at this.
    • Jacob (Official Rep) April 20, 2011 01:53
      Agreed.
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  • I know very little about coding so I can't comment on the technical aspect but for me as long as we can place ads and banner exchanges and customise the layout well then I'm going to be fairly happy.
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  • I’m confused
    I'm rather in the same boat with both TOHS and Plague having customized designs on the website. I looked at what you have to offer and I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up boning something away, because it WAS designed for me. While I can fudge with HTML and am getting better at it. The dissection of the code I have isn't going to be simple enough for me to pull apart and put in the windows currently provided.

    Will it allow for home pages and such as well?
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  • I’m concerned
    I think so too! Being able to edit the html is important. I made several additions to my comic layouts myself and it would be more than inconvenient for me to lose them. You can learn the essentials in a couple of afternoons, so don't tell me it doesn't fit into the user-friendly concept. Most of us aren't stupid, are we? Besides it is one of the things that distinguishes our good old Duck from the rest.
    If they can't include it, they could at least keep open the option for extra buttons with links of your choice, like character sheets, maps, the widespread TWC-button, PayPal, the creator's homepage and what have you - below the custom navigation button form or something. But it'd still be better to allow html editing; every user is different, after all. Also, the result will look a lot better in most cases.
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  • I’m the 1337 master
    Having the ability to choose basic template or in depth design is kinda something needed and I know, you know.
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  • I’m feeling more optimistic. Still worried about other PW users, but I can live without it.
    After listening to the quackcast I figured anyone following this would like an update.

    Wowio will be implementing some kind of site customization tool that is said to be VERY extensive. Everything NEEDED for a web comic will be allowed. And the tools will continue to be improved even after it goes live.

    Wowio techs said they looked at several custom sites to see what more advanced web sites add into their templates and are trying to give us all these options. I know they looked at my comic so maybe we will all get random image links, interactive maps, and dropdown chapters :P (wishful thinking I know but I guess it isn't impossible)

    Technically the drop down chapters would be a really good option to give all authors anyway just to throw that out there ;)

    Voting links and banner exchanges will be allowed as well. The only snag thus far is the Project Wonderful ads. The advertisers have a right to refuse them because they would compete with their own ads. Wowio techs are trying to allow them. (Some of us need an ad to be a part of a group, like I need one to be a member of Palace in the Sky which helped promote me into the top 10 on DD. These ads were not discussed)

    It sounds like The Duck will have a much BETTER template/customization system that will benefit webcomic authors.

    I figure 99% of the current DD comics will transfer over just fine and be easily tweaked in the new system with little issue.

    If this customization tool is as awe inspiring as the techs seem to think of course XD

    For those of us that feel we HAVE to have certain things they did mention a premium service. They did NOT mention what features it would give. I would assume removing the ads from your site would be one. Which should allow for any other ads /theory

    Before the masses get upset with the idea of a premium service, most users will not even need it. Aside from some html things which still may or may not be implemented into the tool the Wowio techs are giving DD users MORE tools for free. And yes easier customization on their web pages for people not as apt in html. Which are a LOT more than those of us that are fearing the html change XD

    With so much feedback now being given we can see that this issue isn't COMPLETELY non negotiable. So I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and hope that one way or another I can have my full site on The Duck and keep making it my main host while everything else is the mirror.
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  • I’m curious about this
    With regards to the new system, (which if it works the way I understand you guys intend to make it will be great) what's happening to the home page feature?
    90% of the time when it's used, it sucks. However, I was using the home page in an appropriate way.
    I have two comics, one of which no longer updates and kinda sucks, the other does. The old one still gets some traffic coming from various external websites. I had it so that when someone loads my old comic they'd be presented with two buttons, one linking to my new comic, the other to the first page of my old comic. Is this going to be possible with the new site?
    • I also need to have my home page.
      Having a plot driven (and at times somewhat strange) comic,
      if new readers are taken straight to the newest page of my comic, they:
      #1) Might have certain plotlines ruined for them with spoilers
      and
      #2)could be completely turned off and confused by my latest artsy page or off-the-wall comic relief page
      On top of that, the content on my homepage, like my blog, shoutbox, PW ad, links, etc. belongs on the the homepage, not cluttering up my comic page. That's for, well, the page and its comments.
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  • I’m not overy happy
    2
    having the ability to create our own HTML for the content we provide enables us to maintain some emote of control as the the look and feel of the comics we make for you. Yes we do like to ad things like Project wonderful, that helps us pay for electricity, and generate more readers to come to the Drunk Duck (which increases your revenue as well) as most of the people who use PW also use the money they earn from it to advertise in other places. Help us support you. Let us have full control over the look and feel of the sites we provide for you. This way you will gain more readers, more revenue and more loyalty in both content creators and content consumers. Without those 2 important facets, the is no need for extra advertisers.
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  • So the existing custom html is NOT being ported over as promised and we won't be able to do it after.... is that about right? So what else aren't you going to follow through with?
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  • Jacob (Official Rep) June 30, 2011 18:23
    Alexander... did you read the *entire* launch email? It mentions that you have the ability to recreate your custom layout. I also acknowledged that I HAD promised it but that we were unable to deliver that functionality at this time. It's not a matter of NOT following through. We WILL deliver on Custom HTML Controls as I promised just not in time for the initial launch.
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  • I did, it says you can recreate the design with the tool set but doesn't mention the html aspect. The difference coming down to inserting things like user ads like project wonderful stuff. The delay in the controls doesn't worry me as yes we were forewarned. I just want to be clear on this as it's one thing that is guaranteed to cause a shitstorm.
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  • That's fairly unsettling, I only work in HTML for the site I hate using template anything except with "Blogger" I just went through and cleaned up my code nice and shiny for the relaunch too. Slightly bummed I will not be able to tinker with my page, I just hope it's not something that is said to eventually happen and never does. I've been burned before on future implementations that never happen.
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  • As I understand it that tinkering will all be lost anyway. The plus side is that there are some basic tools for customisation, just not many at first.
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  • I’m out
    The more I think about this the more I think that it's just not worth it to hang around. I'll still read the comics on, whatever the site's called now, but I feel that by axing custom HTML, you've pretty much nailed the coffin closed on this site. Unless you implement a system that would allow the users move modules around, then most of the comics are going to feel cookie cutter. It's like companies that use a default template for their website, it feels generic, bland, uninteresting, and that's death to any comic. Implementing a drag and drop interface for customizing layouts would be much more difficult than just allowing people to upload their own layouts and check them for malicious scripts.

    So yes, ally was right, this is the deal breaker for me. I'll still be around the forums until most of the people leave, but I won't be uploading any comics to the Duck, or whatever the name is.
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  • I’m angry
    yeah I agree, I think my drunk duck hunting comic will show the mallard getting hit, it will be very amusing. And the last one on the duck
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  • EMPLOYEE
    I’m confident
    Jacob (Official Rep) July 09, 2011 20:12
    Hey Salsa & A.L....

    First, apologies as I am coming off of about 3 hours of sleep so if I mess up a word or two please don't hold it against me. ;-)

    As I stated in this post, (http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/..., when I announced the relaunch plan, we DO plan to give you guys the ability to customize your comic by simply moving modules around on the screen. (With a LIVE preview even.) We were just not able to deliver on that promise I made with Phase One of the relaunch.

    Listen, this relaunch/move is not an ego-trip. I really don't want to lose ANY long-time or new Duck users OR creators. I really don't. Having said that, it would be foolish to think that we wouldn't lose anyone in a move at a scale such as this one is. I'm sure we will. However, taking the chance of improving the site for everyone at the expense perhaps of losing some of the long-term creators was a chance we were willing to take. Again, I don't want to lose ANY users or creators but this was a chance to make the site better for the entire community and not just for a select few. Please remember this is only Phase One.

    Initially, there will be functionality that is missing or doesn't work the way you are used/expecting to be working. We acknowledge that in some areas we initially may be taking a few steps backward. However, when we release subsequent versions of the site, (weeks after Phase One on Monday.), we will be adding features and functionality in a rapid manner that far exceeds the capabilities you have had up to this point. We plan on doing more comic creator spotlights across all of our sites:
    WOWIO.com (http://www.wowio.com),
    PopGalaxy (http://www.popgalaxy.com)

    Additionally we will be offering self-publishing tools and introducing tools for you guys to start monetizing your comics more then you ever have been previously. Also, we will be bringing the store back so you can sell your artwork. All of this however starts with this Phase One relaunch. None of this is possible without it.

    I think you would agree with me that the alternative of continuing to "hack and patch" the Duck combined with a flawed database architecture that would crash causing massive losses of data every couple of months is not a sustainable nor a very pleasant scenario. Well, that is exactly what our future looked like if we didn't' do this and do it now.

    I expect we will lose some folks. In fact, I don't doubt that we will. However, The Duck is not going to go down in a ball of flames. We will not be losing folks in mass. We are being more responsive to the concerns and comments of the community than has ever occurred previously. We will get some things wrong at first for sure but we WILL continue to work to make the site better.

    I REALLY appreciate your guys' honesty and bluntness. Like I said already, I really don't want you, (Or anyone for that matter), to go but I understand completely if you feel compelled to. Do me a favor though... come back in a couple of months to check things out and tell me what you think. ;-)

    Thanks,

    L.
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    • Jacob (Official Rep) July 10, 2011 22:37
      Hey Salsa,

      I don't really have the time or desire to prove you wrong or right honestly. That's not the point. I'm committed to trying to help the community at large. While I appreciate your feedback, the over-the-top hyperbole that you've inserted into your previous message really makes it difficult to have a calm discussion around this issue. You really get worked up and start throwing in things that simply are not there. For example, I, nor WOWIO have EVER "spit" in the face of this or ANY other community. (Knowingly or otherwise.) That is just so ridiculous and offensive. So let me just try once again to address the three issues that you state we have "ignored" (to use your words):

      1. The Name Change
      2. Color Scheme
      3. Custom HTML

      1. The Duck Name Change
      I have addressed this issue over-and-over again, in two, two-hour podcasts that I did with site admins. We were finding it hard to get good advertisers. Like it or not, these are the folks that subsidize the site allowing us to keep The Duck FREE. We discussed it internally, then with the community and then made a decision. Just because you don't agree with our decision or how we went about that deliberations on the topic does not mean we ignored the community. We were not. We just disagreed on how the name change could have been done. Most of the feedback I have received has been that they don't really care what the site is called as long as it stops crashing every couple of months.

      2. Color Scheme
      I don't understand this one at all. We have addressed the color scheme. We listened to the feedback of several folks in the community, for example there were these posts:
      http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/...
      http://getsatisfaction.com/drunkduck/...

      These are just two examples of where folks took the time to spell out what *exactly* wasn't working for them. We took those comments and made the appropriate adjustments. (Not in every case but in most cases.) Now, the messages where people just called us names and said we were "blind" and "not designers", you are 100% correct in saying that we ignored those folks. Because there isn't any action item(s) for those types of comments.

      Again, we may not have agreed upon and implemented everything that was suggested/asked but to say that we flat-out ignored the community is simply not true.

      3. Custom HTML
      SO much of mine and my development team's time has been spent focused on this issue. I'm not sure you realize this but we DO allow for pasted in custom HTML content for sub-pages. We are modeling our toolset after systems like SquareSpace. Again, this is only Phase One and in the next couple of weeks as additional versions of the site come out, you will see that we may have had to take a couple of steps backwards initially but the site will be better for it.

      I hope that I am wrong here but I suspect this will have little effect on your view / characterization of WOWIO and /or it's intensions. I am staying focused on making the Duck better.

      Look, I am not an artist. However, I have such TREMENDOUS respect for the ridiculously talented artists I have seen throughout the Duck community that I want to build the tools needed to *really* showcase that talent. It's just really, really hard to do.

      I have to get back to finishing the site for launch tomorrow. I hope this message doesn't come across as arrogant, angry or that I am "ignoring" you or certain of the points you were trying to make. I just took serious issue with your comments surrounding WOWIO's intensions and the way you characterized us. You could not have been more wrong.

      L.
    • With the custom html you won't convince people until they see the full toolset, perhaps even then. As for colour scheme, perhaps you shouldn't have ignored those more offensive messages as it still looks bad. The forums are especially bad.
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  • I’m frustrated
    I just really don't understand that if the site is improving or going in a more professional manner why HTML editing won't be included. That's essential heck I doubt I'll be able to make an image map or anything else outside of what blogger does and I am very dissatisfied with blogger layouts.
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  • I will admit I was kinda bummed by the fact that we will not be able to use custom HTML for our comics...and the one swf comic I have on my site will be "Broken" Yeah it sucks. But I am not going to dismiss the Duck or Drunk Duck or whatever it will be called just on that. Yeah I am going to have to learn this new system with its Comicpress style modular system (I use comic press on my main site now that I moved it away from Comic Genesis) and Project Wonderfull does help pay for my comic and that will be missing for the first wee while. I am not saying that Wowio know what they are doing, because I dont know. But I am going to give them the chance to prove themselves. Platinum pretty much ignored us so seeing Wowio take some form of interest in us is a nice thing. So I suggest rather than going all "OMG no HTML editing Ima gonna take mah bat and ball and screw you guys Ima going home" We see how this new system works, keep holding them to account for promised features and if they are unable to keep their promices within a reasonable amount of time then look at other options.
    I like a few others have over 500 pages invested on the Duck so moving to another site is a scary prospect. All that uploading via a HTML interface....GAH!
    But if I deem it necessarily for the benefit of my comic I will. BUT Wowio gets their chance first.
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  • I’m cautiously optimistic
    2
    To LeachyPeachy:
    I think the consensus seems to be (once you get through all the drama) that we're saying that a lot of us are really hoping you get the custom html part of phase two up and running as soon as ya'll can. I also think a lot of us webcomikers are used to things being promised and never delivered by sites (including drunkduck under past management), and it makes us all a bit cynical and slow to trust promises of future functionality.^^;

    It's really gone a long way to set my mind at ease to see that you are striving to stay positive and respond calmly to our panicked rants and ramblings while also working to make sure the code is watertight before launching, and trying keep us all in the loop as to what's happening as it happens on top of it all. Thanks for all that, by the way. =) It makes me, at least, willing to believe that we will eventually see the features we've been promised, when they are ready. (though I do hope they are ready quickly ^^;)

    Just keep up the good work, and try to bear with us temperamental artists; remember, if "the duck formerly known as drunk" was an art gallery undergoing renovation, you'd have us all whining about some clumsy construction worker dropping a painting and complaining about how dark it is with the lights not being installed yet, and how much better the gallery was the old way (never mind the leaky roof and termite infestation). XD

    Just so long as the metaphorical lights eventually do get turned on, and my stuff survives the move more or less intact, I'll be happy.
    • Jacob (Official Rep) July 10, 2011 21:28
      Thanks for this Scorpion451. With the exception of this singular issue, we have been able to address every concern and / or bug that has been brought to our attention. I have no doubt that we will eventually be able to address and allay the concerns surrounding this one as well. I've said this multiple times already, (QuackCast, Blog Posts, etc...), that we are modeling our controls based on what we have seen in the likes of other sites who provide similar functionality. Particularly, SquareSpace. In the case of SquareSpace, they actually are able to allow for free-form custom HTML while maintaining security. We want to do this as well. However, SquareSpace and other more-funded sites have the luxury of resources and time that unfortunately we just don't have. I'm not meaning to sound like I am making excuses, that is just the simple fact.

      So again, I REALLY appreciate your support and understand your "cautious optimism". ;-) We'll get the site where you guys want/need it to be as quickly as we can.

      Thanks again,

      L.
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  • I’m thankful
    I support and am glad for all the changes going on. I always found the raw HTML editing format a nuisance. I'll probably find it limiting until they implement some kind of template and CSS editor, or something like that, but until then it's not a big deal.

    I am just glad that the site is going for a more mature and professional brand and look. I avoided this site for a long time because I thought the name was juvenile, and every page I went to looked cluttered and poorly designed. I only joined a couple years ago because so many of my friends suggested it to me. Now The Duck makes up almost 20% of my readership, and I'm glad that I joined.

    I'm really eager to see how the changes pan out.
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  • I’m feeling hot in 88 degree weather
    I didnt actually mean to say that I will not stick around long enough to see if there is any improvements, I'll be treading water, I might return and reupload, especially if you have an archive builder somewhere (hint hint) but you should at least include restricted custom html areas/widgets so that people can add banners and stuff. Supporting the site, site meters, heck even voting portals to drive more traffic to the comics will be gone. Personally I prefer to use my own site monitoring tools than the (pardon) laughable page viewer tracker you had before. That is just not accurate enough to show the user who stays, who just skims, and where the reader came from. For example: did Visitor A stumble upon the site or did they follow an ad, or did they follow a forum signature? Those kinds of statistics are what tells me where my readers and visitors clicked on to visit my comic and I can advertise accordingly. You can't have that with an modular layout that doesnt have any form of html editing. Even restricted (like some html, no forwarding of course) would make us happy. (And of course css sheets as well)

    Now, if the duck is much faster and more stable I might consider keeping a copy of Insanity of Xade on the site but right now I have my wings---errr tails twisted to fly away (as in Tails the fox style since my avatar is very loosely based on Miles "Tails" Prowler)

    the duck gets a chance though, don't worry
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  • Already I find the new template set confusing, and unusable for the most part. It's probably just because it's the first few days however. But looking at it... it won't meet my needs as far as customization goes. But heck no one even listened to any of my posted concern's last time so heck if I'll learn anything this week.
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  • I have found a few problems that I have detailed that should have been found beforehand. but it is early days so I am reserving judgement for now... the customisation thing is pretty basic at this stage... mayhaps widgets would be a better way to go..,..some that allow text and html. I do like how comic press does it and it lets me have a good secure system and have some customised html
    • I was/am just really attached to my layout. I do change it often but I liked what I have/had. It's not that I couldn't recreate it in a wink even with the new ad's floating around. It's not like I don't own my own website either,I do but I always wanted to host a comic here it's been a bit of a dream of mine and now I don't find myself enthusiastically looking at trying to cobble together a unique looking site with the current format.
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  • Where's the new layout thing meant to be? All I can see that might possibly be what I'm after is 'links'.

    And the site just 502'd on me so I can't even see what 'links' does...
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  • when it stops being a bad gateway.... when you are logged into your account. and go to the comic itself that you own there are little buttons saying things like "Edit page" "Edit navication" and "edit background"

    thats when it desides to be a good gateway
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  • Soo whats the deal with being able to design my page the way I want it to look? Will we get Raw HTML or am I stuck with this boring layout with slapped on images and little to no design?
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  • 1
    @Kash Mitaukano: I remember Leachy mentioning in another thread that once they get some of the bigger bugs fixed right after the launch, they're going to work on creating some sort of advanced editing options, so hopefully it'll be more than just the basic "activate layout" options they have now. I just hope they deliver on it in a timely manner.
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    • I really do dislike those two now...

      stop going on a site you said you don't use.
    • I think they are right on the money with this.
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  • I’m like a cookie from a box of cookies
    personally, after much consideration I decided to give the duck one last chance. but I am simply uploading either textless or (if there is not enough text) blurred or rippled version of the comic as a teaser and leaving a forward link in the notes to my site. That does not seem to mess with anyone, and it IS a comic that I am uploading just mutilated to drive the readers forward. However, I was doing that once one of the admins caught on that I was auto forwarding people to my site after 10 weeks. I took it down immediately after he sent me a quack about it.

    I might consider going back and uploading them all properly once I can fully customize it but right now my comic on the duck looks like one house in a row of prefab condos with a purple lawn chair in front of it to distinguish itself from the the rest. There is nothing unique about IoX on the duck besides the banner. I am not like other people, as such, my comic's layout needs to stand out as much as I do. You have ruined my first comic home, but despite having my car packed to leave because of the sameness of the neighborhood, I still have a bed and fridge in my little condo so I can wait to see what the manager of the neighborhood (wowio) is going to let me do with the place to entice me to stay.

    ~~Xade

    PS can someone tell me how Amelius of Charby the Vampirate (http://www.drunkduck.com/Charby_the_V...) changed her layout colors and stuff? That would satisfy me for a while :)
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