New puzzle progression

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  • (Edited)
UPDATE: Now that the site is now live, please continue discussion at the new feedback topic so we can make sure to keep things clean and tidy.

Hi all,

To ramp up to Eterna-medicine, we're building a puzzle progression to take players from zero to switches.  So when players finish a puzzle, the next puzzle will be a new challenge that builds on what they already know and teaches them something new.  Think Portal, if you have experience with that.   I'll be drawing from the Nova tutorials and the many wonderful player guides and tutorials.  I could really use player help and feedback.

First:  I've tried to collect the things that players should know to tackle the Eterna-medicine switches here.  If you have things to add, please comment in the document or reply here in the forums and I will add them.  The idea here is to give players the foundational tools they need to be successful switch puzzle solvers.

Second: I've been working from Eli's tutorial puzzle guide to find tutorial puzzles that players have designed.  If you have puzzles that demonstrated a particular strategy or concept well, please send them my way.  You can either reply in this thread or PM me here.

Once we put a progression together, we will need to beta-test, both with veteran and with novice players.  I'll update this thread as the project proceeds.

If you have any other thoughts or suggestions, please get in touch.  So many of you have already been a huge help by making tutorial puzzles and strategy guides.

Thanks!

-Ben
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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  • excited!

Posted 4 years ago

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LFP6, Player Developer

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While on the topic of a 'progression', I'd like to bring something up (which I'll probably bring up at the dev chat Friday too): We need to do something about the challenge puzzles. There's a few reasons I say this.

1) Most of the points will come from challenge puzzles when starting out as a new player (it's the most efficient), and the game encourages you to play those before anything else, so this is where new players will spend the majority of the time up front (and it takes quite a while to get through the challenges, even to the point where a player may very well get bored/frustrated and leave without ever doing anything else).
2) The point was to help learn, but not only will we have the progression now, but after you play enough (or read a generic puzzle solving guide) all of them can be solved ALMOST THE EXACT SAME WAY. This is an issue because...
3) The solution data from challenge puzzles are not used.

Soooo, players will spend most of their time on puzzles that are meaningless (in both result and helpfulness for the player). This is, personally, an extremely broken model that encourages players to never get to the 'real stuff'.


Also, I am open to helping with building the tutorials in the tutorial creator once I finish up with the stuff I'm currently working on in the forums (I actually started to make one tutorial for the various parts of an RNA, but that got put off to the side).
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MoabUtah

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Excellent essay, LFP6. I think your comments present the core issue with Eterna. I have reached the stage where I can plug in a pattern that works and slog through the puzzles. I have no idea how to advance to the lab. The instructions etc. on the lab are, to me, confusing, not very helpful, or simply non-existent. I really like this game/idea/process and would love to continue, but I am stuck. If some of the talented folks who participate in the lab could make a series of tutorials that explained the basics of the lab, I think you would have a lot more participants. As of now, the game promises a lot more than it delivers.  You don't learn much about RNA design, only how to solve an abstract puzzle with four colored dots and some fairly simple guidelines. Eterna is a great idea, but until a better gateway to the lab is designed, it will attract far fewer participants than this excellent concept deserves.
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nando, Player Developer

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@MoabUtah: please do not take anything I'm going to say personally, I'm only trying to address some points you made, because they seem to be quite common misconceptions (probably something the dev team needs to work on in terms of communication and PR)

As of now, the game promises a lot more than it delivers
To the contrary, the "game" delivers exactly what it promises. I'm not exactly sure where the misunderstanding comes from. Possibly, it has to do with the fact that most, if not all other citizen science projects are initiated by scientists asking for help from the public. In all these cases, the scientific community needs resources that are difficult to acquire, like huge amounts of CPU time, or data acquisition around the globe, or the classification of the millions of pictures of galaxies collected by some telescopes, etc.

Eterna players are not just better random sequence generators than computers are though. And the Das Lab and Greenleaf Lab are not asking for our "help" in the lab area of the game. They have invited us players to be the scientists. And being a scientist is not a matter of education or diplomas, neither does it consist only in applying a method (even though that's important), it's a state of mind, a philosophy. 

You don't learn much about RNA design
We, players, are not asked to learn it. Learning it would mean that someone else already knows the topic well enough to teach it. We are cordially invited to discover it and/or to invent it.

It already happened in the past with efforts centered around single states design, which culminated with the construction of the EternaBot and a scientific publication in the PNAS journal. We did it! 

And we're working now on even tougher problems centered around riboswitches, an ambitious objective with very far reaching potentials (like designing medically relevant molecules)

If some of the talented folks who participate in the lab could make a series of tutorials that explained the basics of the lab,

Let me ask you: how do you think the "talented" folks got where they are? Don't you see the flurry of contributions from players like Eli Fisker in this forum? Have you cared to check his Eterna profile and the gigantic number of references he has meticulously classified? ever visited his Youtube channel full of introductory material about nucleic acids and science in general? Did you check the wiki? (old joke: yes, we have one). Ever bothered to check my own wiki blog? or any of the recorded online sessions I did in the past? Did you, just like Brourd, Eli, jandersonlee, Omei, etc (sorry for the many I forgot to list here) look yourself for information online? I've read easily 100+ scientific papers about RNA since I joined Eterna. I'm not saying everyone should do the same, but there is no excuses for finding no information, it's out there, within Eterna and outside of it.



And if you now tell me "this is just nuts", I'll say "yes!!!". This challenge is among the hardest there are, and in my opinion, this is exactly why this is so fascinating, so exhilarating and so unique. Where else do you, as a non-scientist, get indirect access to a wet lab and get the opportunity to do all of the science (hypothesis, experiment, analysis, peer review, publication)? Eterna is not "citizen science", or at least, not in the usual sense, It is much more than a simple appeal to the public to do something good because it is the "duty" of decent and generous members of society (I suppose that this is what the "citizen" bit refers to). The dream of the founders of Eterna is, and has always been the crowdsourcing of science. Not just data acquisition or classification, all of it. The whole scientific process done by the whole crowd, scientists and the public together.



Finally, if for some reason you cannot or don't want to contribute in the fashion described above, it's absolutely fine, really, there are still plenty (plenty!) other things that can be done for Eterna. In essence, I did put aside my own scientific interests, at least a little, for the good of the project and the community. Someone had to help with coding in the Flash applet, so I did. If anyone has programming skills, they can contact Omei, jnicol and me, we have plenty of tasks waiting to be coded: scripted tools and boosters, data visualization, etc. If you are talented with video-editing, please get in touch with Ben. If you simply have time, give Ben some feedback on the new puzzle tutorials when he will request it. Good at solving puzzles and writing? Make tutorials, guides, walkthroughs, etc. and get in touch with LFP6 who's been admirable in his dedication to reorganizing all sorts of materials here on GetSat and wants to tackle the wiki as well. Knowledgeable about game design and/or gamification? Contact Ben and Rhiju. Etc, etc. There is just no way to get bored here.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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@MoabUtah: We could really use help in testing the puzzle progression.  If you're interested, please contact me and we can set up a time.  I'm not sure what level you're at, but it would be great to have some more experienced players check that the puzzles are useful, that the messages and images convey the right concepts, etc. The most important part of improving the learning progression (or ramp to the lab, or however you want to think about it) is to get people to test it and tell us where things are going wrong.  So please, get in touch - I'd love to talk to you (and anyone else who is interested) about it!

With a project like this one, there is always going to be a frontier.  In some cases players ask for how to best design X thing, and in many cases the answer is simply: we don't know (yet).  So we're kind of all in this adventure together.  A lot depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.

That being said, I think there are vast improvements to be made in teaching everyone what we do know.  Getting someone who knows nothing about physics, microbiology, or RNA (AKA: me) to participate meaningfully in the current labs is a huge, huge challenge.  But we are trying our best to improve this process, especially over the next few months.
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MoabUtah

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Nando,
Thanks for taking the time and effort to post such a detailed reply. 
I will contact bekeep and see if there is something I could add to his development of the puzzle progression.

MoabUtah
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Good points. We should definitely chat about what to do with the challenge puzzles and how to reorganize puzzle activity.

Re: puzzle progression.  It's going to take me a while to get things sorted, but I would welcome your help.  Feel free to drop me a line when you're running out of stuff to do in the forums. : )
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Mr50Freemans

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I really like the direction that you guys are heading with this but I would like to add that as a 16 year old high school student some more explanation than (paraphrasing of course) 'This color likes this color' would be helpful.

To clarify by 'more explanation' I don't mean any less or more simply termed, what I do mean is while with that method of explanation I now understand blue is attracted to red but prefers yellow but I still don't understand why.

I believe that if the why and the how puzzles are solved (how you use steps/strategy to solve it and why you decided to use them then) were explained so that the player had a base set of principles to build off.

This is a huge undertaking and I would love to help with it if I could! I can't help with switches in anyway because I have never been able to solve those sadly but if you guys need testers or anything just time consuming I’m totally up to help, I have tons of time even during the school session so if its ever needed I'm up for it.
-50Freemans
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Not positive what NCEG stands for, but it has to do with the NOVA Labs port.

What are you trying to do with the nucleotides?
(Edited)
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LFP6, Player Developer

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I believe they have been contacted, and I'd assume much of it would be transferred to tutorials
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Happy to have all of your help.  I will post an update this week where I will lay out the next steps.  Just give me a couple days - I've been on vacation this past week or so.
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Mr50Freemans

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@LFP6 I was thinking  that if we could hide nucleotides we might be able to help the player focus on smaller chunks at a time instead of just not letting them change them like some tutorials do currently, I'm sure there would be other uses to but that's just what I first though of.

@bekeep Oh yea absolutely enjoy your vacation while you can! I think I speak for all of us when I say that it's no problem at all to help, glad to be here. In the meantime I think I will start taking some of the dictionary terms and put them into tutorials.
(Edited)
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Highlighting would be what to use for that, nucleotides are not UI elements, there is a list of available elements in the documentation.

I actually started a tutorial for defining the parts of an RNA, but I got busy with the work on GetSat and never got to finish.
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machinelves

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hi I think that Eli and Mat747 submitted a list of tutorials and puzzles that would be good for progression, when this was brought up before. Hope this helps & good luck!

:)
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Thanks!  Yeah, Eli's tutorial/teaching puzzle collection has been invaluable and I've been chatting a bit to Mat747 about the project.  I'll post an update this week!
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syang

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I agree with everyone so far about the need for better game flow and all the suggested tutorials and tips.  Before doing lab switches though, players should probably learn how a switch works and folds to understand aptamers and other switch components.  

For switch tutorials, jnicol's switch tutorials could be implemented at some point in the game flow.  Although they get difficult as you advance in the lessons, the knowledge learned through completing the puzzle can be invaluable in solving harder switches.  Thanks for all your work in the new puzzle progression!  I hope this helps!  :)
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Hi all,

First of all, thanks everyone for their feedback and contributions.  I’ve now grouped learning goals together in this document.  There’s a key at the top.  I divided them into units and have them in a rough order from basic to advanced, while giving the player some variety along the way.  There will also be educational interludes between groups of puzzles that will try to fill in some of the essential knowledge base.  I hope it’s sensible – it’s not perfect.

I’d like to link these learning goals to specific puzzles.  So over the next couple weeks I’ll be regrouping and editing things and adding links to puzzles that address specific goals.  I’d love your feedback with that.  If you have a puzzle that addresses a goal, add it to the document.  If you have other feedback or comments about the progression, please let me know.

Here are some principles I’m working from:

Each puzzle should present something new.  In other words, the player won’t be able to do exactly what she did in the last puzzle to solve the current puzzle.

Blend learning when possible (link RNA knowledge to puzzle tactics to effective use of UI).

Introduce UI elements when they are relevant.  In other words, introduce pair swapping in a puzzle where pair swapping is useful (where, say, swapping the right pair(s) will solve the puzzle); zooming in and out might be introduced in a larger than average puzzle.

Use contrasting cases.  The idea is to use puzzles that look similar, but differ in some critical respect so that players can notice what’s different.  A number of player-created tutorial series already do this to great effect.

Show before telling.  Some amount of text will be inevitable, but if we can demonstrate something elegantly, through a puzzle, that’s the better option.

The use of scaffolding.  The idea here is to enable players to solve puzzles they otherwise wouldn’t by giving a little bit of help.  Players have employed a variety of interesting methods of doing this: locked bases, hints in the description, limits in the number of mutations necessary to solve the problem (see the Fun with John series), starting players off with a bad design that they need to fix, etc.

I hope to have a working puzzle progression by the end of August to early September.  Then we can iterate and beta-test.

Thanks!

-Ben

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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Also - as Nando and Rhiju reminded me - the immediate goal is to teach players everything they need to know to participate in the Eterna medicine challenges.  So if you see material that doesn't do that, please let me know.

Thanks,
Ben
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Hi all,

This is the latest document I'm working from: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hMiQcwQ3isGTzufex4Ir7JrKsrFbYtVZLPC0Pe8ChiU/edit?usp=sharing.  Still very much a work in progress.  The general outline is something like the following:


Basics - bases, bonds, folding, target/native modes, 
GC - closing pairs, direction, structure energy, GC orientation, more loop varieties
AU - bulges, sliding, blocking, AU zipper
GU - using GU in stacks, as closing pairs, in bulges.
Non-canonical - advanced boosting/mismatches, catalyzing, energy profiles
Switches - ligand/aptamer, 2-state, 3-state switches
Labs - Eternabot constraint, FMN/MS2 model, RNA in/out model


I like the idea of moving from the strongest base pairs to the weakest (or, perhaps, least subtle to most subtle), which is how the first half of it goes.  Very interested in hearing your thoughts.

Thanks,
Ben
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your patience while we put together an early version of the puzzle progression.  This is, basically, the first half of what we have planned (only single-state puzzles).  Think of this as an incomplete alpha version.

You can start the walkthrough here:  http://nova.eternadev.org/game/puzzle/3389880/?autoload=0

You can see the puzzles in the progression here (might not be in order): http://nova.eternadev.org/web/progression/

Right now, we have a handful of placeholder puzzles (spacebars currently, should be updated this week) and some empty message screens.  We don't have many of the accompanying graphics yet, so you will also see text like "You unlocked the swap tool!" and "(pic needed)".

We would LOVE feedback from you guys about it.  Technical glitches, puzzle suggestions, phrasing suggestions, concepts that you think should be added, suggestions about "flow", etc.

I am demoing it with a few people who have never played Eterna as well, so we can get add new players' perspectives to the mix.

Thanks, as always, for your help.

Best,
Ben
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LFP6, Player Developer

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I do tend to agree with Brourd here, would be interesting to get the perspective from new users to see what they think of it.

Would doing some pre-loading of the following puzzle be of any use? So at the same time as you're working on the current puzzle, there is a small amount of resources dedicated to pulling some of the basic data for the next puzzle. Also, perhaps the 'puzzle submission' could be done such that the user could continue doing other things while the submission is taking place, with a little indicator that says it's still being submitted, then it has been completed.

I honestly wouldn't know if either of these would actually wind up being beneficial at all, or even be realistic to implement, but figured I'd throw that out there.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Many thanks for the feedback.

Re: the mission accomplished ritual.  It could be the case that after a while, the bubbles, the mission accomplished screen, the loading, etc. would have less impact on the player (after they've seen it a few times), but, as Nando mentioned and I implied, what makes the context different here than with any of the other puzzle solving on the site?  Do you guys want to have the power to turn off fanfare and mission accomplished screens with the puzzles you solve?  You've seen it a lot of times - it's always there.  

Re: length. I still don't quite understand what the issue is here (and perhaps we're talking past each other a bit).  We'd like new players to reach the depth present in the lab in an efficient (and enjoyable) way.  If it takes 2 hours, it takes 2 hours.  If it takes 20 hours, it takes 20 hours.  It may be that in the 20 hour case you would get more attrition, but we would try to make those 20 hours as interesting and efficient as possible.  It would be nice to have the ability to control length of time spent, which we could do if we were building a normal game by simply reducing the complexity of the game or changing how things worked.  But here, the end goal - new players contributing to the labs in a meaningful way - cannot be changed.

Would it change your take on either of these issues if, after getting a badge (~6-14 puzzles or so) you are brought back out into the main website with, for example, a side-quest or video unlocked?
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Oops, of course I misread Brourd's comment, but the puzzle submission thing can occasionally take a while. Not a huge issue though. Sorry about that.

As for the length, what I'm getting from Brourd isn't necessarily that there's an issue with the length, but for the time concentration doing lots of relatively small tasks, repeated 'fanfare' could get a bit old.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Thanks for clarifying.  So if I'm understanding correctly, it's more about proportion of puzzle-solving time to fanfare time? (e.g., if you're doing lots of small tasks it becomes irritating to have delays to those tasks, rather than say, a longer task that you get fanfare for.)
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LFP6, Player Developer

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That's my understanding, but Brourd can confirm. :)
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Just speaking to the game 'flow' perspective, i'm not sure if perhaps having a right banner completion screen like NOVA might be beneficial? The new screen is better, but it might be nice to have that real-estate, and from a design perspective I feel like it might be feel a little less restricted (helping to direct the user more openly).
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Interesting point.  I can't speak to the technical feasibility of doing that, but one thing that has come up in some early play-testing is testers solving the puzzle, but not realizing exactly what they did to solve it (which I've experienced as well).  The side-view could enable players to see messages and the puzzle they just solved and relate the two.
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Ok, I've been thinking and there's a bunch of stuff I'm going to write up and put in a long-overdue forum topic. I've realized the sidebar is just a tiny aspect of what I'm seeing, and is a part of something I see as kind of a bad design. Look out for the new topic *hopefully* later tonight, and ideally all will make sense. :P
(Edited)
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Sounds good. : )
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Here we go: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagam...

Feedback would be much appreciated!
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easykent

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I'm working my way thru the puzzles, and absolutely loved having to bring up the lab score to solve one of them.  I'd like to suggest that the lab score be made a requirement for each puzzle.  If we are afraid of scaring away too many players, we could at least always have the score there to show us where our puzzle-solve would qualify in the lab.  That way, if we're interested in that, we'd have that as information even if it isn't necessarily required to pass the puzzle.
Also, so as not to interrupt the flow of the game, we could have a button called 'find out more' to press if we want to learn more about the subject of the puzzle.  This would direct us to a guide to that, particular aspect of the puzzle.
So far, I love this version of Eterna, and am learning so much more from it.
Please, keep up the excellent work.  It's much appreciated by us!!!!
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Omei Turnbull, Player Developer

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I hadn't been following this thread for awhile, but the recent activity caught my attention and prompted a new thought.

So far, we've been thinking in terms of getting players ready for full participation in EteRNA Medicine means getting them ready to create new lab designs.  This is quite a high bar, as I think we are just beginning to really appreciate.

What if the entry level lab player didn't get to create totally new lab designs?  Instead, their initial capabilities would be limited to making some number of mutations to one or more "model" designs that had either scored relatively well in a prior round or, in the case of the first round for a puzzle, had been constructed by seasoned players based on their best guess of what will work for the new lab. The ability to create completely new designs would come with some combination of experience and/or success in creating design modifications.

I imagine a number of advantages.
  1. It is a much easier task to make small modifications to a switch than to construct one from scratch, raising player participation.
  2. The new player is much, much more likely to get a rewarding score than if they submit a de nova design, raising player satisfaction.
  3. The tutorials could focus on things like interpreting the lab data (i.e. what do the KD values actually mean, and how can a player use that data to guide one's modifications), raising player understanding of the science.
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Brourd

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For points 1 and 2, I don't particularly agree with this line of reasoning, given this would be relegating players to the job of rudimentary algorithms for the purpose of score inflation.

However, considering that the targets for labs are going to slowly become more and more complicated, it will probably be necessary to incorporate this into the game, but I would suggest that players be given more than just designs that have scored "relatively well." They should be given a design from within the pool of synthesized designs and be asked to improve on it given their understanding of the experimental result, with the option to skip designs if it is particularly terrible or not well made.
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Omei Turnbull, Player Developer

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Good point. I hadn't given any thought to what constituted scoring "relatively well", but there's no reason to limit the criteria for selection to the score alone.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Thanks, Omei.  I think that's a very good way of introducing players to the lab and teaching them about good designs.  I definitely plan on incorporating modding in the progression.

Fair points, Brourd.  Would a player have an idea of where to improve on the basis of a score of one design?  Or would they look at some group or pool of scores, get a design from the pool and try to improve it on based on their understanding of the trends in the results?
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LFP6, Player Developer

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I definitely think that focusing both the learning and the gameplay on analysis would be helpful, personally, as it seems to me that without this the player can neither improve well or make use of what others have done.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Hi Everyone!

We're moving forward on the tuberculosis challenge and a piece of that is the new puzzle progression which will help us all prepare to develop molecules for tuberculosis diagnosis.  We're still working on a few things, but we'd really love your feedback on the latest iteration.

You can see the new site here: medicine.eternadev.org 

Let us know:

- What you think of the newer, simplified look
- If there are any hints to puzzles that don't make sense
- If there are puzzles that seem to difficult to solve (I'm particularly interested in the last dozen or so puzzles)
- If there is content that you would like to see on some of the mission accomplished screens
- If there is mission accomplished screen content that doesn't make sense in context
- If there are any technical issues (loading times, broken links, other problems)

Note:

- Some of the earlier puzzles don't have hints but we haven't gotten rid of the hint functionality for those puzzles yet
- Hints for switch puzzles haven't been implemented yet
- The last dozen or so puzzles are awaiting some mission accomplished screen updates
- We'll be crediting individual players for the puzzles and design templates that we use in the progression


A whole lot of credit goes to Caleb and Nando.  If you experience technical problems with the puzzle or with the site you can contact Caleb directly at calebgeniesse [at] gmail [dot] com.  For bug reports, but as specific as possible (browser information and screenshots are helpful). For other issues contact me.


Best,
Ben
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Here's a list of the mission screens with the puzzle id in the corner to use for reference.  Thanks!

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1msi6-Obi8udx_53M_PUYWRt90WsPo2aMAhHFAONeReQ/edit?usp=sharing
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Ok, I've been going through this whole thing with a brand-new account. I have quite a bit of feedback to share, but I'm going to wait until I finish. :) With the day off tomorrow, hopefully I can do that! Thank you all so much for all the hard work you put into this, this is a huge step in the right direction for EteRNA.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Great!  Thanks!
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Rocketdog42

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I've done quite a bit of the new progression and think, in general, it is very helpful.  I also have some comments that I will add after I finish.
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Rocketdog42

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I'm getting hung up on [PUZPROG] [SWITCH2.5][2 STATES] CAU .  It gets to the "submitting design" and just hangs up there.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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It seems like the puzzles are loading normally now.  Can you try clearing your cache and trying again?  Please let us know if it still doesn't work (and if you can let us know what browser you're using), that'd be great.  Thanks!
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Great - thanks for you help!  Hmm.. I'll look into the problem this afternoon.  Appreciate the report.
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Rocketdog42

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Question--Is there an assumption that people have done the Nova tutorials? Thanks.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

  • 98 Posts
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No - there's no assumption that they've done the Nova tutorials.
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Rocketdog42

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OK, I now have a bunch of comments about the tutorials.  Should I post them here?  Also, I only got through #97,  finishing the Liquid Robotics section and then it takes me back to the beginning. How do I get to the rest?
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calebgeniesse, Researcher

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Thanks for bringing this up, Rocketdog42! Are you taken back to your "lab" after earning the Liquid Robotics badge? If so, what badges are being displayed to you? Are you not given the option to continue working on the Super Computer badge, or is it the Super Computer's "Go" button link that takes you to the first puzzle? Sorry for all of the questions, but thanks in advance for helping me track down this issue!
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Fantastic - thanks!  Perhaps it'd be easiest to link them in a Google doc and send me a link through Eterna with a PM.  That way I can respond directly to each comment, and track ones where we are making changes.  If you don't want to do that, just PM me and we can figure something out.  You can always post them here, too.

Caleb: do you have thoughts as to why Rocketdog42 is getting bounced back to the beginning after Liquid Robotics?
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Rocketdog42

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I'm going to PM you because, except for a few, most of my comments are not about a specific lesson.  If you want me to be more specific, I can go through again and give specific comments.
(Edited)
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Rocketdog42

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Also, I tried using Firefox instead of Safari after Liquid Robotics and still get kicked back to the beginning.
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Rocketdog42

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Hey Caleb, Got your email regarding my being stuck.  When I get  to the end of Liquid Robotics, it says "What's Next?".  When I click on that it brings me back to my "medicine" home page, Invent Medicine,  where I have been given all the badges I should have gotten and the info on what games I solved is correct. There is no mention anywhere about the Super Computer puzzles.  Thanks again,
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calebgeniesse, Researcher

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How many points do you have?
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Rocketdog42

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Caleb, I have 40,200 pts and rank 1362.  BUT  All of a sudden when I went to the site, I have the SuperComputer link there, so I can continue.  Weird, it just showed up this time.
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calebgeniesse, Researcher

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Great, thats because I just fixed the issue! Thanks for letting me know--I was just trying to figure out how to test my fix. Basically, we are updating the requirements for "lab access", and you were granted access prematurely. In the current game, it is granted after earning 10,000 points, but with the new progression, users will be required to complete the entire puzzle progression (earn all 10 tools) before being granted lab access. Thanks again for bringing this issue to our attention and helping me resolve it. I apologize for the inconvenience!
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cake

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Oh good. I think there should be some more point-controlled unlocks and perhaps some more switch challenges, and some 3 state challenges.
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Ok, here's my feedback, sorry I delayed so long. Pardon the length, it was a lot of just kinda spit as I had thoughts.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UnsEPDnQNf9KsbN58vVUhsIqxGqroiGEKy7pfPFrNLk/edit

Thanks for taking a look!
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LFP6, Player Developer

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I have commenting on to make any needed clarifications easier.
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bekeep, Learning Researcher

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Sweet - thank you SO MUCH for all of the detailed feedback.  You make some strong points that I hope we can address moving forward.  I'll post some comments in your doc soon.

Best,
Ben
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easykent

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I just took the  10 min survey and was dropped out of my working on the puzzles.  Hope that gets fixed.
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easykent

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I'm really enjoying the new site...Very well done.
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LFP6, Player Developer

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Btw post from Elves with the link to the altest dev chat log, which includes some feedback: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/eterna-medicine-going-live-please-help-find-bugs-d
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whbob

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I've been trying out the new "medicine" beta on the dev server.
When clicking on the PLAY button,(Next Generation SEQUENCER), "Notice: IOError:Could not open csv Error #2032 ioError"trying to access www.medicine.eternadev.org/game/puzzle/3390199/

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