We need the classic browser back around until the new browser is actually capable of allowing us to perform the same tasks as before, when we design and do analysis.
The classic browser is stress tested during many years. Nando and Jnicol have fixed its biggest problems so it is now supporting our work in an easy manner. This is not yet the case for the new browser.
While the new browser has cool new options, many of the most basic functions are still missing.
We need to be able to see the design structure - else we can’t make good use of the results from the earlier round to improve designing from this round.
We need to be able to view design description and
copying out sequence to modify designs and be able to experiment on
them. All these are things that are crucial for designing and analysis. This not being possible, gets in the way of us making good use of the lab results we have gotten back.
This is a problem!
Please come with your input. What options do you miss? What things would you like to see? Lets help Omei work out the wrinkles.
Posted 4 years ago
Wish number 1 - seeing the design structure
For many of the latest archived labs, it is not possible to see the 2D designs structure. We depend on them for analysis. Without the design structure, we can’t learn from past results to improve on current round.
This is already a problem as I now see even fewer of the new lab designers use past results for designing. We get a lot of from scratch design - which is good - but without being able to see and learn from the earlier results, designing is blind and we are not benefiting as we should from our precious lab results.
2D design structure as seen in the classic browser
(Edited)
Stability - columns and headlines
A known and recurring problem is that column headers slide in relation to the columns. This makes reading out results far more tedious than it has to be.
The new browser is not yet stable when it comes to displaying the results.
A known and recurring problem is that column headers slide in relation to the columns. This makes reading out results far more tedious than it has to be.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
Eli, can you tell me how to reproduce this particular bug?
It happens regularly, typically when I have been setting something in the left panel. I will try to look out for when exactly it happens.
I just replicated the sliding error. All I did was open this lab:
http://www.eternagame.org/web/labs/data-browser/?puzzle_id=6296745
I'm using firefox.
http://www.eternagame.org/web/labs/data-browser/?puzzle_id=6296745
I'm using firefox.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
Thanks Eli, I can reproduce it now. It looks like it is specific to Firefox and having the Sequence column displayed. (Headers align correctly if I hide the Sequence field.) If you come across any other example that doesn't have both these elements present, please post again.
I'm not sure how long it will before I get it fixed. :-(
I'm not sure how long it will before I get it fixed. :-(
Copy out sequences
When I design for lab, I regular modify or do experiments to a design from the earlier round. To do this I need to be able to copy the sequence out from the archived data. The new browser have no sequence copy function.
LFP6, Player Developer
This does still exist, it is only available via the in-game browser (accessed via the hamburger menu while in the puzzle). Ideally this should be available via the web browser, I agree.
My problem is that the Lab archive that I go to as usual, via the hamburger menu, for a lot of the past labs now sends me directly into the new browser and not the classic browser where the option is available.
(Edited)
LFP6, Player Developer
For all the ones I tried, this worked:
Thx LFP for finding a backdoor that doesn't take url editing.
Usually we can get to the designs directly by taking the Sequence button, without having do do things backwards.
Usually we can get to the designs directly by taking the Sequence button, without having do do things backwards.
LFP6, Player Developer
Actually, when you hit sequences before, it still wasn't the same one! If you remember from quite a while back, there only used to be the Flash browser, then they introduced one in HTML5. The Flash one stuck around within the game, and the HTML5 one was accessible via the sequences button. This one has been replaced, but not the one in-game.
I've been doing the same thing as Champion.
Copy out link
When I refer to a design I modify, I typically leave a link back to the original design in my design description.
Leaving a link to the design I get inspired from is both a courtesy to the original designer, but also a help for analysis when we get the data back. Then I can easier see if what I intended really did work compared to what I started from.
Idea: If copying out sequence and referencing URL, and original score could be done in one go - in other words supported by the interface, that would be even better. We still need to be able to get either of these individually.
(Edited)
LFP6, Player Developer
From what I understand, design ancestors is now tracked for more recent puzzles (ie when you copy a design, it should record what you copied it from via the in-game browser) but this information is not displayed in the interface itself. I could probably script up a viewer that displays the entire ancestry as a tree kind of thing if I get the chance. Of course this would ideally be integrated more into the interface, both for displaying the history and navigating to the data for any of the related designs.
LFP6, Player Developer
Actually I take that back. It doesn't appear that the data is available via the API at this point. Hopefully it will be available soon.
Hi LFP!
Just wanted to say thanks for giving it a go.
Just wanted to say thanks for giving it a go.
LFP6, Player Developer
At least the information is being tracked (at least as long as it's being stored, I do know that t's being sent), so it is there to be used.
LFP6, Player Developer
And again, the link copying feature is still there in the in-game browser.
Omei and the developers in general are doing a great job. While they continue the Reorg. of the browser, I've used a work around to access past labs.
LABS, Project ID’s, puzzle ID’s Design(solution) ID’s.
LABS, Project ID’s, puzzle ID’s Design(solution) ID’s.
Example LAB: Next Generation Riboswitches On Chip, (R1).
Project ID# 5851792.
Sublabs:
Exclusion NG 1 Puzzle ID# 5851774.
Exclusion NG 2 Puzzle ID# 5851780.
Exclusion NG 3 Puzzle ID# 5851784.
Same State NG 1 Puzzle ID# 5851785.
Same State NG 2 Puzzle ID# 5851787.
Same State BG 3 Puzzle ID# 5851791.
The Project ID# is the alternate description of the Lab Name.
This lab contains 6 sub-labs.
The puzzle ID# is the alternate description of the sub-lab name.
The sub-lab has a list of Design iD’s for that sub-lab.
The Design id’s are the individual lab shape designs for the sub-lab.
Summary:
Project ID#, Puzzle ID#, Design ID# is the hierarchy.
Original (old) URL format:
www.eternagame.org/game/browse/Project ID#/.
Goes to the Lab description page which should include the subl-lab icons.
www.eternagame.org/game/browse/puzzle ID#/.
Goes to a list of the design ID#’s in the puzzle ID sub-lab.
The “/“ symbol must be at the end of the URL for a successful search.
It would be helpful if there was a spreadsheet to reference past labs to ID numbers :)
Neat Whbob!
I did notice that you were one of the few who did manage to get to and use the past lab results. :)
I did notice that you were one of the few who did manage to get to and use the past lab results. :)
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
I have gotten tired of having to ticking off lots of boxes each time I want to see data for a different lab - something which happens a lot - so I'm thinking that it would be really helpful if the browser could just remember my global preferences. Just as the classic browser remembers which columns I wish to have shown globally. It is usually the same data columns I wish to see no matter the lab.
Ok, really this solution is probably less good than just having all the favored columns remembered by default.
Ok, really this solution is probably less good than just having all the favored columns remembered by default.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
Less data viewable in the web browser compared to the flash browser
While the classic browser has way too much space in its data columns, I can still see far more both of the data columns and the sequences per lab. Which I like.
Flash, 40 sequences, sequence list fills 2/3
In the web browser, the sequences fills more and I can see fewer off them. This leaves me with less data columns on the side.
Web, 30 or really 29 sequences, sequence list fills 3/4
What is the greatest promise of the web browser is if one could view the sequence list alongside a design structure drawing and still have room for one or two data columns. The sequences filling too much leaves very little room for this. All extra space would be helpful for making the structure drawing bigger.
Some of the versions of the Data Browser have held the 40 sequence view. And I really liked it.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
The main difference between your first two screenshots is the zoom level, and you have full control over that with the Control +/- keys. (At least that is what they are for Chrome; I think it is pretty standard across browsers.)
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
I have zoom set to 100% in the browser for both images.
This happens in both firefox and chrome, but I can only shoot this image including zoom level within firefox.
This happens in both firefox and chrome, but I can only shoot this image including zoom level within firefox.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
My point was not that everything is the same in both browsers at the same zoom level, but that the player has control of the zoom level. There's an obvious trade-off between how much you can get on the screen and how well you can see it because of reduced size. That choice is a personal one, based on screen size and resolution, one's vision, what other windows one also wants to see, etc.
Making the best use possible of whatever space is available is definitely a design goal. But trying to tweak the best compromise for a default zoom level doesn't seem like a good use of time unless there is a consensus among players that the current one is clearly sub-optimal.
Making the best use possible of whatever space is available is definitely a design goal. But trying to tweak the best compromise for a default zoom level doesn't seem like a good use of time unless there is a consensus among players that the current one is clearly sub-optimal.
I have grown particular fond of the kcal column lately. I know the classic browser shows the Vienna value and the game shows the NUPACK value.
However I can't find the nupack one in the spreadsheets and as such it doesn't get into the web browser.
I would like to get kcal into the web browser. I have found it helps me for analysis.
However I can't find the nupack one in the spreadsheets and as such it doesn't get into the web browser.
I would like to get kcal into the web browser. I have found it helps me for analysis.
LFP6, Player Developer
In case it's of interest, based on some exparamentation I did, it's actually the energy from the state and energy model you submitted it with.
LFP, thx. This is very relevant.
What I understand you are saying is that the column kcal can then be from different models then.
And the kcal on the design shown by default is NUPACKS - for most of the latest labs, we have NUPACK as default once we get the data back and also when designing.
So having kcal from each engine split up in columns would be most helpful. Or having it consistently be from NUPACK. It will help for comparison if we can compare the same energy model and not different ones in the same column.
What I understand you are saying is that the column kcal can then be from different models then.
And the kcal on the design shown by default is NUPACKS - for most of the latest labs, we have NUPACK as default once we get the data back and also when designing.
So having kcal from each engine split up in columns would be most helpful. Or having it consistently be from NUPACK. It will help for comparison if we can compare the same energy model and not different ones in the same column.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
It's my current plan to not use the energy values stored in the Eterna database for the new browser. Instead, the values would be generated by the same process that generates the dot-bracket structure strings, so that they are consistent.
Crucial information missing
I have found that the small boxes with info about which switch elements needs to be present in what state are not there. It holds great value to know, both to see if the puzzle fulfills demands - also of the simulation. At the same time this teaches us about the quirks of NUPACK. When we can see when lab allow things that simulation disagrees with. I'm in chrome.
The same puzzle in the classic browser
I have found that the small boxes with info about which switch elements needs to be present in what state are not there. It holds great value to know, both to see if the puzzle fulfills demands - also of the simulation. At the same time this teaches us about the quirks of NUPACK. When we can see when lab allow things that simulation disagrees with. I'm in chrome.
The same puzzle in the classic browser
Sorting function missing
I have earlier given an intro to the sorting function. The same document contains ideas for how to use it.
One of the tools I value the most in the classic browser is the sorting function. It's invaluable when it comes to distill what is working.
What one can do is click on any design of interest and get the data sorted by their similarity to this design.
It is by far the tool that tells me most, when it comes to comparing similar designs and see which small base changes are the most important and why. However it is not yet an option in the new browser.
I have earlier given an intro to the sorting function. The same document contains ideas for how to use it.
Can't get to the web site today. Just a blue screen. I can see the new lab page on the dev server. Looks like 4 or 5 oligo's. Delay looks to be about 6 million miles at light speed :) 5/3/16
Just got back on. Safari was my problem browser. Switched to chrome yesterday and it worked great. Today, safari is back up and running again. Thanks to all who worked on this :)
Here is a png of my browser(Chrome)with an error report. The 2D section of the browser never loads the Flash structure. This began after Flash had a new update recently. I'm guessing that the 2D area is a frame that calls the Flash software. Not sure where the call to flash is in the code, but this error may be related to that call not being processed properly. Hope this helps :)
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
Thank you, whbob, for the detailed screenshot.
The problem doesn't seem to be your flash version, but the fact that puzzleid is undefined in the Puzzlequery string. Your screenshot doesn't show the main table, but offhand the only reason I can think of for the puzzle id being undefined is that you didn't start by choosing one or more puzzles. Is this a possibility? If not, maybe you can give me the full sequence of what you do to create this. Or is this not a easily reproducible error?
The problem doesn't seem to be your flash version, but the fact that puzzleid is undefined in the Puzzlequery string. Your screenshot doesn't show the main table, but offhand the only reason I can think of for the puzzle id being undefined is that you didn't start by choosing one or more puzzles. Is this a possibility? If not, maybe you can give me the full sequence of what you do to create this. Or is this not a easily reproducible error?
Ask not if "The new browser is ready to take over?", ask " Am I ready for the new browser?"
I saw the same thing last night. "Puzzleid not defined", using dev tools in chrome. I woke at the break of dawn thinking " the filters".
I filtered out all of the "unnecessary data on the puzzle lines, thinking it was only a visual for me and not a filter of the data that the software would use.
I listed eterna scores greater than 89 with a sublab puzzle name showing the design, score and sequence, not thinking something like the puzzle id was necessary.
Went back and checked puzzle id and now all is well in "my" browser .
Sorry for the distraction :(
I saw the same thing last night. "Puzzleid not defined", using dev tools in chrome. I woke at the break of dawn thinking " the filters".
I filtered out all of the "unnecessary data on the puzzle lines, thinking it was only a visual for me and not a filter of the data that the software would use.
I listed eterna scores greater than 89 with a sublab puzzle name showing the design, score and sequence, not thinking something like the puzzle id was necessary.
Went back and checked puzzle id and now all is well in "my" browser .
Sorry for the distraction :(
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
It's not a distraction; it's a legitimate bug report. The browser should enforce its own requirements, not leave the user to figure out what they are.
Thank you for posting.
Thank you for posting.
mat747
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
LFP6, Player Developer
Eli Fisker
Eli Fisker
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
If you are always having a 15-20 second wait, I would want to know if your browser is for some reason not caching the app, or whether something else is wrong. I would suggest starting by loading the app in Chrome and bringing up it's debugger, because I think it is the easiest to use. Do you know how to do this?
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
Eli Fisker
Big thx. This is far better.
It still is a problem when I pull 3 windows.
Eli Fisker
I usually have no problems in the classic browser, there load time is less than a sec.
I don't know how to load the debugger in chrome. I will need some guidance.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
BTW: Something you'll come across sooner or later: if you drag the left border of the right panel quickly while the new border is over the 2D boxes , it can appear to get stuck. If this happens, you just need to move the border more slowly. Undoubtedly, there is something I can do to improve this, but I'm not thinking of it as a priority right now.
Omei Turnbull, Player Developer
@others: The document should be open to viewing and comments, in case the topic is of interest to you.