Help get this topic noticed by sharing it on Twitter, Facebook, or email.
I’m worn out from always having to click "Refresh"

Being forced to always have to Manually refresh pages with new interface

When moving from Details, to sources, to collaborate buttons, If you don't manually refresh the page when you get there, you may not see everything that is supposed to be there.

I'm seeing this more frequently. Most recently I found this out while trying to removed the "glitched" duplicate sources on some ancestors I had. When you detach one of these bogus sources, it would usually show up as a strange hint on the main page that if opened looks like it is already attached.

This all used to happen in real time on the old person pages.

Now if I detach the source under the source button and then go to the details button, the hint that should be there is not! Again, you must manually refresh the page in order to see the hint that is really there.

This always having to go through the details, collaborate, sources, timeline, manually refreshing each one every time something is changed in order to be "playing with a full deck", especially when I'm working on sources that are shared between folks. For example, when I am looking at marriage records, the source is typically shared between 4 people, that is 8 to 12 screens I have to manually refresh before I start just to ensure I can see all the data that is supposed to be in those views.
5 people like
this idea
+1
Reply
  • This is a known issue but has not been duplicated.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Jeff, it might help if you let FS know what your computer and OS are, along with the browser you are using. Sometimes, knowing the details about the computer can help, also, (processor, available RAM, etc.).

    The processor should not make any difference, but there are still differences in the way the two processors work and with something like this, those differences may have an impact.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Another help is too clean your cache. Many cases that fixes some issues.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • 1
    If the user is just switching between tabs -- yes, it is known and it is very repeatable. Its just how browsers work. This is not a traditional software program where everything updates everywhere. Yes, if you had a tab already open, your web browser will hold onto the view that it downloaded, even if you look at that tab again. Unless you specifically tell it to pull the information again (refresh), your web browser will not constantly repull the information for the various tabs you have open. Doing so would multiply traffic on the web exponentially.

    Now, instead of keeping tabs open, if you follow links back to the pages you want to visit (i.e., follow a link from the source tab to the profile, or from the profile to the sources), you *may* get updated data, depending on your browser settings. If you've instructed it not to pull new information if a recent copy is in your cache, you still may need to force a refresh.

    This has become a bigger problem since the update because now people are compensating for everything being in separate tabs. They're loading those separate tabs into browser tabs, or browser windows, so that they can have everything still viewable for whatever profile they're reviewing. But if they expect a change on one browser tab or window to automatically change all of the tabs or windows that they have already open -- well, browsers just don't work that way.
    • I understand the issues with multi-access and browsers as well as the implementation challenges. But I think your statement that "This has become a bigger problem since the update because now people are compensating for everything being in separate tabs" is very accurate, revealing, and should provide a significant clue on this subject.

      These people are compensating for a weakness of the system in supporting the type of work they have to do. When you have to see a large block of information that is necessary for, but no longer co-located with the things that you are working on, what are you supposed to do?

      1) Write them down? (ridiculously tedious, time-consuming, and prone to error)

      2) Screen shot? (better, but as work is done must be repeatedly retaken to reflect the current state of the work)

      3) Side-by-side windows? (The ideal solution, has the greatest flexibility, speed, and accuracy)

      Item "3)" is the ideal EXCEPT when the supporting implementation makes the solution inconsistent or not trustworthy when it doesn't handle all of the related race conditions that can exist.

      I'm sure that you are plenty aware that when highly coupled data is separated by implementation into viewable locations that are not co-located, it is inevitable that race conditions will arise that must be dealt with (and they can be complicated). This is the very type of condition that my original post was reporting on.

      Regardless on the limitations of multiple windows and tabs in browsers, when a person goes to a view to see the data on a person and that data is not applicable per the database, it is a problem and will cause confusion.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Joe,

    I suspect there are many permutations to this. Also, going from my memory (which is not as good as it was :-) some items may be correctly updating but not all. For example, If you open and link a hint from the details page, if you then go to the sources button, the new link shows up, I think--I have not tried opening the sources button first, then returning to the details page to link the hint, and THEN returning to the sources view (i.e., the first view of sources may "lock in" the view without the new source if opened first)

    Anyway, here's just one way to reproduce part of this issue:

    1) WinA - Open a browser window in Family Search (call this "WinA")
    2) WinA - Open a person's page on Details
    3) WinA - Go to the sources button and open it.
    4) WinB - Open a new browser window in Family Search (call this "WinB"
    5) WinB - Go to the same person's page as that used in WinA
    6) WinB - Go to the person's sources button and open it

    -->The source list in both windows are identical

    8) WinA - Go to the details button in the first window and open it
    9) WinB - Change the order of the source list in the second window
    10) WinB - Confirm the reordering by going to the details button in the second window, opening it, and then return to the source button and open it

    --> The source list reordering in WinB has been confirmed

    11) WinB - close Window B completely
    12) WinA - go to sources button and open

    --> The source list does not reflect the reordering

    13) WinA - toggle back and forth between the details and source button a few times

    --> The source list does not reflect the reordering

    14) WinA tab2 - Open a person page for a different person in a second tab
    15) WinA tab2 - Make any changes at all.
    16) WinA tab1 - Return to original person's tab and view sources
    17) WinA tab2 - close the second tab in WinA

    --> The original source list STILL does not reflect the reordering

    17) WinA - go back to the person's detail button an open it (the sources list view is now replaced with the details view).

    18) WinA - do a refresh on the details view
    19) WinA - go to the sources button and open it

    --> Even though you did a refresh on the details view, the sources view was refreshed and now you can finally see the reordering that was performed.

    Note that going to the memories or timeline buttons (not sure which) will create a refresh on everything too.

    I've seen this on a 2017 iMac running MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra) with both Safari 11.1.2 and Firefox 62.0 browsers.

    I've seen this when trying to fix munged sources (duplicates connected to the same person). when you detach one of these sources it typically will immediately show up as a hint. When you toggle back over to the details view though, the hint isn't there. You can leave that details/sources view up all day and you won't see it until you do a refresh.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Jeff, the computer browser's cache is designed to stop having to download the display each time something (from another computer or window) is opened. That is the source of what I believe you are experiencing.

    There is no solution to the problem other than forcing your computer browser to clear its cache every time you close a window and have another from the same page opened, demanding that the browser do a new download from the server.

    Very inefficient and what I believe you are experiencing is coming because that is not happening (and won't with the current browser designs).

    Note, the may be a setting in your computer browser that disables the cache, but I haven't looked for it.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • 2
    Tom,

    I know very well how browser caches work and limitations can exist, but there IS at least one solution (or at least, a mitigation). All person specific data attributes must reside on the same page.

    (Yes that conflicts with some bandwidth issues that FS is trying to deal with)

    The point that I've been trying to make in various discussions here all along is that when you fragment the person record and put the pieces in separate windows, in a on line, multi-user, web environment, you are GUARANTEED to run into these types of race conditions due to technological limitations, many of which are the side effects of caching by browsers. When you choose to deviate from the more cohesive grouping of object data in a browser window, you ALWAYS have to weight it against the likelihood of of these issue and their relatively complex solutions (if any exist) occurring.

    Based on their own reasoning, FS has taken this course of action. What is done is done. That's fine. All we can do at this point is to report the bugs we find

    I started this discussion to identify only ONE of these types of problems that I have run into myself. Kert Monroe has now identified even another different one probably originating from this same type of situation. He describes it in:
    https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
    I'm suspect that more of these types of bugs will be found over time and they'll all need some kind of correction.

    Remember, Cyberling's Law of Entomology states that "There is always one more bug"

    FS will eventually either solve the problems or reduce their priorities on them to the point they are unlikely to be corrected. Again, all we can do is report these flaws as we come across them and hope that FS gives them a suitable priority.

    But please don't tell me that there is no reasonable solution to a design flaw that did not even exist in the older interface structure.

    These bugs were introduced by FS in the upgrade, Let's hope that FS tries to fix them as well. I wish them luck as they won't all have easy solutions.
    • view 3 more comments
    • Been having same problem and suggested it maybe a weather issue.
    • No, it's a real issue. Also, delays in communication between your browser and FS (e.g., effects of weather) can potentially exacerbate it, but it will still exist even under the fastest of comm lines.

      And as both Tom Huber and David Wynn have also pointed out, the way caching works in browsers creates a real conundrum when dealing with this issue.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated

  • Refresh, refresh, refresh....constantly refreshing.
  • (some HTML allowed)
    How does this make you feel?
    Add Image
    I'm

    e.g. kidding, amused, unsure, silly indifferent, undecided, unconcerned happy, confident, thankful, excited sad, anxious, confused, frustrated