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Beta site, really looks different.

Just when I have my muscle memory programmed to work they go and move things around. Notes and discussion sections have moved deeper in. They were already invisible to many.

https://beta.familysearch.org/
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  • I hope that the FamilySearch developers are taking note of the comments here and on other threads that relate to features that I assume will soon appear in the production version of Family Tree.

    Yes, I appreciate the comments made on this forum might not necessarily reflect the views of the majority of FT users but, in the main, they do come from patrons who have the experience to weigh-up the impact (positive and negative) of the features in the Beta version being implemented.

    The main thing I do hope is that there is no pressure, from the CEO or senior management, to meet a strict deadline for the introduction of the new, considerably updated version of FT.

    There have been some silly errors made with past (relatively minor) updates that have taken a long time to remedy, so please make sure there is no undue pressure applied regarding any timescale to get this going "live".

    After some reflection, I do like some of the new features - especially the potential in what could be an excellent additional section: Maps. But, like the other new features, this needs a fair bit of tweaking: in this case, to avoid it providing crazy displays.

    My personal priorities have always related to getting the FamilySearch data accuracy improved - by correcting some awful errors (where only FS staff can do this) or allowing patrons to provide an input against incorrect records. However, I wish this project every success but, again, would stress the need to take (within reason!) all the time necessary to make the final release something we will find a great product to use.
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  • I just checked the beta site and find that "Talk" is now "Collaborate" and that "Life Sketch" is at the bottom of the person/detail page. Still nothing like an Alert section.
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    yes -- it appears to me there was a major re-do to the beta person site overnight. The timeline is now on a separate tab so the main page is very similar to what was originally there - vital information, other information, family members and life sketch at the bottom. discussions and notes have moved to collaborate and timeline and map are other tabs.

    for me in Firefox the map function is not adding any icons but that may just be the change not complete or my browser.

    It is interesting that changes are afoot - seems like minds are not made up so comments may have some impact.
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  • I noticed the changes too. Thoroughly like the different tabs, including the timeline in tab. The Life Sketch is hidden at the bottom; would like to see that brought up to the top. Life Sketch "introduces" the person and you just don't see dates and names as you log in. If there is nothing in the Life Sketch, then perhaps that section could be collapsed by the patron.

    Collaborate is a great word that communicates 'discussing, etc.' Not sure if this is possible, but if someone writes a note or adds a discussion (perhaps an alert in this section), could a red number be placed next to the word collaborate that indicates the number of messages/notes/discussions, etc. in this section? Similar to what occurs in "messages" currently.
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    • "I'm not sure that you are talking about the timeline when you talk about false importance of birth, death, etc"

      What I thought I was talking about is the original view that puts the so-called Vital Events at the top, relegating everything else to "Other". This is particularly perverse where we have Christenings at the top and Baptisms down in the Other. Currently, on those odd occasions when the indexing process has not "perverted" the evidence and turned baptisms into christenings, the baptisms are lost down below in Other. With everything in date order, they are not lost. (OK, there may still be other issues in terms of proxies for birth - or not). That's why I much prefer to see all the events in date order and not see a selection of events.

      Right now, as I've said, I'm hoping that I'll be able to see a full time-line view, complete with all tools, hints, family relationships, etc, as we had before in Beta.

      Time really is important to me...

      "Time is what keeps everything from happening at once." This quote has been mistakenly attributed to Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, Woody Allen, John Archibald Wheeler, and likely others, in many different forms And Peter Capaldi's Dr Who, I think!
    • I'm not talking about the timeline. I'm talking about the reversion to the "vital" events layout of the current system. It shows those four events separately from the rest and, as I said, gives them undue prominence and importance over other events in the profile.
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  • Timeline on a separate tab??!!! Noooo!!!!!

    This takes us back to the idea that the only thing we care about are Vital Events and we can do genealogy without bothering with any of this dirty stuff like Residences to tell us where people were....

    I hadn't realised how much I liked the Time-line layout!

    At least give us all the tools on the Timeline view that we have on the other Details tab.

    In fact, make the two views identical in all respects except for the Timeline shows everything in chronological order, including Hints, while the Details view shows the current, broken, discontinuous, out of order, hidden hints view (You may notice some prejudice in my description!)
    • I like the return of the details page, which allows me to see everything associated with the person (except for the sources) on one screen.

      The timeline, if the idea of added anecdotal comments is implemented, will help paint a fuller picture of the person. We'll have to wait to see what else is implemented.

      Some tabs should probably open a separate window (like the couple relationship flyout) with a "close" button. The Collaborate would work great in such a situation where we need to be able to look at what is in the details as we look through or add to notes and discussions.
    • "The timeline, if the idea of added anecdotal comments is implemented, will help paint a fuller picture of the person."

      Agreed - that's probably where I'd like to work most of the time. It probably needs careful thinking about how to show the event related notes if they are implemented - normally closed, I suggest, with an icon to say that text exists.
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  • Several significant changes were made.

    I just opened up the beta site and took a look to see if anything was being done with respect to uploading GEDCOM -- no changes -- still the same old, same old.

    Anyway, the person page now has seven tabs.

    Details is similar to what is currently used in production but the section omissions are troublesome. Sources are now under their own tab. Notes and Discussions are under their own tab as has previously been noted and is now, as noted, called Collaborate. Life Sketch was moved to the bottom of this section. I do not know if a patron will be able to rearranged the elements of not, but for now, that option appears to be missing (which is okay, given the development in process nature of the beta site).

    The default for details is "Vitals, Other Information, Family, and Life Sketch (at the bottom).

    The same material that appears in production on the right side of the Details page is now in this display.

    The couple relationship flyouts are unchanged from production.

    Timeline is now limited to just those events that have a date associated with them. Neither are "facts" (custom or otherwise).

    If an event, such as a burial, birth of a child, sibling, or parent, or the marriage has no date, it will not be displayed. As a suggestion, I would move those to their own section in Timeline under the heading, "The following contain no dates."

    The "Filter" name is now "Show" -- much better in my mind. The options of which to show/not show are the same, which is fine.

    Map This is essentially the same as before. The timeline (as it is now displayed in its tab) is the same and as if all events are selected to "show" with the map showing where events take place. I tested to see what would happen if an event of a sibling did not have a place, and the event still shows on the timeline used with the map. Deselected elements in the Timeline tab does not impact the timeline used with the Map.

    Sources is a separate display of the sources. This doesn't make a lot of sense, since Details is where I find hints to historical records. Either the sources need to be moved back to the details page, or the hints need to be moved here.

    At present, the order of the sources cannot be arranged.

    >b>Collaborate is the name that replaced "Talk" and is a good suggestion. Now the idea of notes and discussions make sense. Life Sketch is now where it needs to be -- with Details.

    (LDS only) Ordinances is the same as before (production). I suspect this will be impacted when the reservation and temple sections of FamilySearch are rewritten. The one existing problem is that the available tabs have been replaced with the three production tabs - Details, Memories, and Ordinances. In fact the whole page is the same as production.

    Memories is also the same screen that you will see in production. Again, there needs to be some work with regard to the header and tabs.

    ---

    With the exception of the last two tabs, the developers have made some changes, a lot of which have been suggested in this and other threads. I really appreciate that the FS folks are noting the suggestions.

    With the exception of putting the sources in its own tab, the changes are pretty good. No alert ability (yet).

    As to the source dilemma, I like to open a source to look at the details when I am editing a fact or event in the person's record. Moving the sources away from the details page takes away that ability and now I have to open a second tab for the sources, while the details tab is open to be able to copy and paste pertinent data from the source to the details page.
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  • I’m confident
    1
    Great Changes to Beta - I Love it even more!
    Three minor suggestions:
    1. Reverse the order of Ordinances and Memories on the details tab so they match the same order when you click on a Person Memories (maybe even add the other "tabs" (Timeline, Map, Sources, & Collaborate) to the Person Memories tab.
    2. Add the "Warning/Alert/Caution" tab with the red exclamation point when text is
    added (This should be just like the Life Sketch box so that open text can be added)
    3. Add the numbers back on each tab showing the number of entries (as are in the production site).
    4. Add the "Reorder Page Selections" to both the Details and Collaboration Tabs
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  • OK - Where is Possible Duplicates hidden in the new Beta site?
    • M.I.A. -- I just looked and it isn't anywhere to be found. However, there is a "Merge by ID" function on the Details page under Tools.

      I'm wondering if the "possible duplicates" is going away and to find duplicates, one has to use the "Find" function against the tree.

      I wonder if they will put in a "Search for Duplicates" function under tools that will bring up a pre-populated "Find" function that will put what were previously "Possible Duplicates" at the top of the list with the Find results (ordered by most likely) following that.

      In my opinion, that would be a good thing. There is a strongly-written note on the "Merge by ID" screen.
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  • "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    Request Change of the "Labels" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ).

    Do not get me wrong, I am not fan of the 'Extension' of the "Labels" from the original premise of the "Early Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" and the "Companies" associated with that Travel.

    But, that "Label" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ) gives the Users / Patrons ( in particularly Members of the Church ) the ability to "Correct" or "Add" individuals / persons in / to the "Early Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" and the "Companies" associated with that Travel.

    That "Label" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ) appeared in the first iteration of the new design / format on the "Beta" ( "Live" ) Environment in the "Top" White section with the Portrait, Name, Birth and Death - Years and PID.

    That "Label" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ) now appears on the "Right-Hand-Side" under "Tools". 'Yes' the "Label" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ) is a Tool; but, I would like to see it returned where it was placed in the first iteration - more prominent, back in the "Top" White section, that is to say, in the "Header" ( ie. Portrait, Name, Birth and Death - Years and PID ).

    The reason for this request is that "Labels" Tool ( ie. +/- Labels ) is very important for the original premise of the "Labels" which was the "Early Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" and the "Companies" associated with that Travel. And, not because of the "Extension" of "Labels".

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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  • "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = "Life Sketch".

    The "Life Sketch" Section now appears at the 'Bottom' of the "Person / Details" page / screen in the new design / format on the "Beta" ( "Live" ) Environment.

    Please place the "Life Sketch" Section just below the "Header" ( ie. Portrait, Name, Birth and Death - Years and PID ), under the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ); and, before the "Vitals" Section.

    I know that this request will be controversial to some in this Forum; but, unlike some in this Forum, I have seen the "Life Sketch", more so used for its intended purpose, to display some important "Information" about someones Life ( not so much in relation to a Famous individual / person; but, some "Information" of significant Note about the individual / person ), rather than just as a "Tool" to impart an "Alert" or "Warning" Message about an individual / person. But, 'Yes', I have seen "Life Sketch" used as a a "Tool" to impart an "Alert" or "Warning" Message about an individual / person; and, I do not have a problem with that.

    I admit that the 'Heading' / 'Title" of the "Life Sketch" Section could be revamped to something like "Life Notices"; or, ( just plain ) "Notices"; or, "Alerts"; or, "Warnings"; or, a combination of them; or, the like.

    But, please move the existing "Life Sketch" Section from the 'Bottom' to towards the 'Top' of the "Person / Details" page / screen so that it appears prominently on the "Person / Details" screen / page. And, NOT, in the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ).

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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  • 1
    Brett, I don't think the placement of Life Sketch is really "controversial". We just each have our own opinion. I think it would be better under the "Memories" tab. Second choice would be at the bottom where it is now currently on the beta.
    • Chas

      Each to their own opinion.

      I would prefer that the "Default" position of the "Life Sketch" Section ( or whatever the "Heading" / "Title" of that section becomes ) to be at the very "TOP".

      'Yes', it should be able to be moved to suit a particular User's / Patron's preference; but, I consider that the "Default" position of that section should be at the very "TOP".

      Just my thoughts.

      Brett
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    "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = "Symbol" in (1) "Vitals" Section; and, (2) "Other Information" Section.

    Please omit ( ie. get rid of ) the [ Location ] "Symbol" at the beginning of the "Place" names within, both, the (1) "Vitals" Section; and, (2) "Other Information" Section.

    That [ Location ] "Symbol" in that context is "Totally" unnecessary, using up unnecessary character space.

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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    "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = "Sources".

    Please return / restore the "Sources" Section back to prominence ON the "Person / Details" page / screen; and, NOT, solely, as a "Tab" on the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ).

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
    • Moving the "Sources" to their own tab is profoundly illogical. Sources exist to support the detailed Events and Facts and need to viewed while working on Hints. None of those are easily done if you have to switch tabs, whereas scrolling up and down is easier - not to mention needs less processing since you don't need to render a bunch of HTML.

      Sources need to be back with the Details.
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  • "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = 'Top Line' Menu

    ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories )

    Please change 'Top Line' Menu:

    from - "Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories"

    to - "Details | Memories | Collaborate | Timeline | Map | Ordinances".

    Please note the previous "Reply" request about the placement of the "Sources" Section.

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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  • "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = 'Date' and 'Place' Fields - as input / entered; NOT, as "Standardised"

    Please return / restore the "Display" of ALL the 'Date' and 'Place' Fields as input / entered by a User / Patron; and, NOT, as "Standardised" date or place.

    In a number of instances, within records, there is also additional information / detail that has been input / entered in 'Date' and 'Place' Fields and left in those fields while applying a "Standardised" date or place, rather than just a simple date or place name.

    In the present iteration of the 'Date' and 'Place' Fields ONLY the "Standardised" date or place is "Displayed" - this is NOT acceptable.

    The 'Date' and 'Place' Fields SHOULD ONLY "Display" the 'Date' and 'Place' AS INPUT / ENTERED by a User / Patron.

    Basically, back to the 'Status quo'.

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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  • "FamilySearch"

    Re: Recent ( Saturday 7 / Sunday 8 July ) Up-date.

    FYI

    REQUEST = "Discussions" Section and "Notes" Section

    Please return / restore the separate "Discussions" Section and "Notes" Section back to separate prominence ON the "Person / Details" page / screen; and, NOT, solely, as the "Tab" of "Collaborate" on the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ).

    I agree that the 'Heading' / 'Title' of "Collaborate" is much better than that of "Talk".

    But, I would prefer to see the separate "Discussions" Section and "Notes" Section back to separate prominence ON the "Person / Details" page / screen, rather than solely, as the "Tab" of "Collaborate" on the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ).

    Not because I am adverse to "Change"; but, it diminishes the importance of the separate "Discussions" Section and "Notes" Section to be placed / found within the "Tab" of "Collaborate" on the 'Top Line' Menu ( ie. Details | Timeline | Map | Sources | Collaborate | Ordinances | Memories ) - they are important, even if they are not READ and / or CONSIDERED by ( some ) Users / Patrons.

    Basically, back to the 'Status quo'.

    Submitted for your information and attention.

    'Thank You'.

    Brett
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  • We need some fore-knowledge here from FamilySearch technical guys re the ability to move sections up and down the Details tab.

    Currently I can, and have, moved the Life Sketch right down to the bottom - only Labels are lower. Please guys, can you confirm that I will, eventually, have that ability to move the Life Sketch (and Labels) etc restored to the new User Interface?

    I happen to consider Life Sketch to be tertiary information that is a summary conclusion based on the events and facts. Therefore it has no business, in my view, being in with the evidentiary(?) straight-forward events and facts. Especially not on top of them.

    Stories are on a separate tab now - in fact, repeating myself, I cannot tell the difference between a Life Sketch and a Story. I mentally process Stories and Life Sketches together. The lack of difference between Stories and Life Sketches, and their tertiary, conclusionary nature, all say to me that putting the Life Sketch, which can be read on its own, in with the Events and Facts is profoundly bad User Interface design as it is not logical but must be learned.

    The above paragraphs do not apply to the theoretical concept of an Alerts section, which needs to be, at the very least highlighted, above all the tools for Possible Duplicates, etc.

    Now, I can see that there are those who wish to have the Life Sketch not just on, but at the top of, the Details tab. I agree, as I say, with neither. However, I would be satisfied with the compromise of retaining the ability of moving the sections on the Detail page, so that I can move the Life Sketch out of the way to the (almost) bottom and leave it closed. So I'd really, really, like to know what's going to happen to the ability to move the sections on the Detail page, because otherwise we're going round the same comments again and again.

    Again, let me emphasise that those comments do not apply to the concept of an Alerts section.
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  • The Life Sketch and the Notes are the only tools we have to try and maintain the integrity of the data in Family Tree. Please don't hide them! The Life Sketch needs to be at the top of the person page. The Notes need to be on the Person Page.
    • Actually, there is a better way than to warn people off. I agree that we need a means by which inexperienced people are encouraged to study out a person's record before making changes, but the purpose of both notes and life sketch do not have that task.

      I appreciate the concerns, both as a patron, but also as someone who has worked better than a month on just one record -- that of Pieter Claesen 9312-XFX.

      Today, very few changes are being made to Pieter, but those that are made are usually the result of someone having data from a well-known fraudulent genealogist (he is thoroughly documented in Pieter's record). In the case of the latest "changes" a newly-created duplicate, which came from a person with a GEDCOM file, was merged into the record. The merge was done in innocence, but it did make some unwanted changes, which I easily backed out.

      Would I like to see Pieter's record frozen from further changes?

      Not in the least! There are still many good primary sources out there and early records are being rediscovered or otherwise coming to light. Even the records that are available contain information that has yet to be incorporated into Pieter's record.

      To minimize the changes others make to the tree, there are several things that I have found to be largely effective, given the nature that many inappropriate changes are being made by people who are new to FamilySearch FamilyTree, or do not work with the tree on any kind of regular basis.

      1. I make sure every deceased person I work with in the tree is fully sourced with citations that can be used to locate original records, not only with sources from FamilySearch Historical Records, but also from other sites as well as material that may not be available online. I also add whatever stories exist about that person and provide sources for those stories. The more information I can include, the less likely someone will come along and make changes.

      I make sure that every conclusion (fact) that is in a person's record actually applies to that person and I have included my reasoning why that conclusion is the right one. There is no room for speculation, which is not fact. If I am unsure about some aspect of a person's life, I put that information on the person's page in notes, discussions, or even as a story, especially if an old well-worn family tradition is involved.

      2. Every time someone makes a change or merge that I feel is incorrect, I use the FamilySearch message system to leave them a kindly written message that contains the following elements:

      -- Thanks for their interest in making the person's record as accurate as possible.
      -- The person or family involved and my relationship.
      -- My thoughts and sources with respect to the changes they made.
      -- The corrections I made to their incorrect changes and why I did it.
      -- Request that before they make changes that they study the record, including the sources that are attached, any notes and stories that may be included in memories.
      -- Remind them (if they have not provided a source or a reason) that sources are crucial to establishing conclusions and facts, and that a person's reasoning is needed to let others know what research and thinking was done to reach those conclusions.
      -- What I did to correct what I perceived to be incorrect material.
      -- Thank them in closing for their interest in making the record as complete as possible.

      3. I am prepared to not receive a response from the person. They have the choice to respond or not respond. Many times, they respond, indicating that they are beginners.

      4. I am well aware that not everyone works with FSFT every day or extensively, so there are many different levels of knowledge and experience being applied. I try to help others understand things like the differences between primary and secondary sources and that published family and locality histories often contain errors and are not sourced. I let them know that unsourced material needs to be treated as hints, not as facts. If a faulty record may have been involved, I let them know about the problems.

      By taking an active part in working with a few of my relatives, I have found that bad changes either stop, or slow considerably. To track what changes take place, especially with critical persons in the tree, I put them on my watch list.

      The most gratifying part about taking an active role, I receive thanks from those who made changes, especially since I go into great detail about what I know of the person and their immediate family, the area, and the families who were neighbors to our common relatives.
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  • "The Life Sketch and the Notes are the only tools we have to try and maintain the integrity of the data in Family Tree. Please don't hide them!"

    Really. I think not.

    How about if I stick a Life Sketch of the following into a profile, "jhioqwuhuibjknjkt63uiohdfhny54q85tu uheynlhiyrowjy9jio nuionitn5wuopiuope5u" and at the same time I attach 15 pertinent, relevant and correct source citations to the that same profile? Which is helping to maintain the integrity of the data in that profile? Why I believe it would be the 15 pertinent, relevant and correct source citations.

    So that's a counter-example to your hyperbole which disproves your statement. You do your argument no good by making provably false statements. Since that aspect of your argument has been blown out of the water it calls into serious question the other parts of your thesis.

    I don't really interact with a Life Sketch very often at all. My most common interaction with notes is to delete a lot of them because they are filled with random, nonsensical junk which contains nothing pertinent about the individual. Hardly showing those forums as paragon examples of maintaining data integrity!
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    • Tom

      Again on your comment, "The Life Sketch and the Notes are the only tools we have to try and maintain the integrity of the data in Family Tree. Please don't hide them!"

      I assume you have accidentally failed to mention "Discussions". That is currently the really important section for me, as I can make important points there that I know I can view any time I go back to that individual. It will be interesting to see if Discussions items will still only be subject to edit/deletion by the poster, in future.

      Also, without an Alerts feature, I will continue to use Discussions for "alerts" and information relating to my research on that person. Items like "No marriage found" or "No known children" (followed by reason statements) need to be preserved, for collaborative purposes. If I put these details in Notes or elsewhere someone might decide they are irrelevant and delete them.

      Incidentally, I do see the "downside" of making Discussions protected from any interference by others: (1) It goes against the general open-edit principles of Family Tree. (2) If/when I die or stop using FT, these comments might become outdated and there will be nobody who can delete them.
    • Fully agree, Paul. I often lump Notes and Discussions together and not mentioning both was my error. Thanks for bringing it up.
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