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Deleting Relationships - Need an option to delete relationship to spouse and to all children with a single click

Currently, relationships to spouses and children have to be deleted one at a time. I just cleaned up one person who had been incorrectly combined with 15 other people. So, I had to delete relationships to 15 spouses. But, I also had to delete the relationships to all the children from all those marriages. Some of the marriages had as many as 10 children. So I literally had to delete hundreds of relationships one at a time. It would be much simpler if you could delete the relationship to the spouse and all the children at once with a single click. If the relationship to the spouse is incorrect, most likely, the relationship to the children is also incorrect.
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    This sounds to me like a very dangerous pathway. If one knows that 16 people are incorrectly combined, then the best strategy would be to go to new.familysearch and use that programming to separate the records.

    Family Tree doesn't yet have the ability to separate records, but my understanding is that that will come, so now it has to be done in the other environment.

    Doing this kind of "record repair" in Family Tree will result in ordinance work for all 15 other people to be hijacked from them. The ordinance work showing may not even belong to the person you chose to make out of the record, but to one of the others.
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    I am quite awed and overwhelmed that we have been given so much trust to delete relationships, and since I have started to do it, I am finding myself quite cautious. I want to do this slowly, carefully and prayerfully. I definitely need to know what I'm doing, and what the correct relationships are. And I am NOT a beginner. Can you imagine the disasters that undoubtedly will occur when the whole world of beginners is invited to start using the program shortly, with no training or obvious tutorials. Oh my. Let's not make this any easier, at least for now. Let's be patient and see what disasters are created first. Then make revisions as needed.
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  • Currently the thought is that you have to be in the full context of the object you are deleting - see the object (the relationship, or individual), it's values, its change history, its notes, its sources. This way a Delete is made seeing all the info of that object. If the user is still confident to Delete they can Delete and provide a Reason for that. So initially it will be tedious to delete each individual relationship to get the tree to a cleaner state.

    There has been though of way to more "batch-like" action that would ripple across multiple objects. I would like to see if certain batch actions make sense but at the same time provide enough impedance to prevent mistaken deletes. The challenge is to come up with a UI that presents all the data of each object and provides a way to Reason each object, and do this given screen real estate, and resources.
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  • We Family Tree teachers have been practicing deleting relationships in the Family History Library on a fictitious database, and it is comforting to see that one can restore relationships if you make a mistake.
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  • I agree with Bryan, that deleting one relationship should delete other raleated relationships. In my case, Thomas Waite and Mary Bronson have nine children with the surname Waite. Somehow, probably through a merger, Lydia Lewis appeared as one of their children. When you look at Lydia's record, you see two sets of parents. I deleted the parent relationship to the Waite's, but she still shows up in their list of children. I can't figure out how to get her off the list. Unlinking her parents should remove her as their child, but apparently it doesn't.
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    • I don't think there is an email list, but since you are on this site, Get Satisfaction, that is a REALLY good start. You should be getting emails whenever you post something, or are following a thread. You might try a new search here that says "What's new in Family Tree?" See what happens!
    • Cathy, there is an email list, actually three different ones. I received my first copy just before I read your last response. You sign up for the lists in your profile settings. Settings is one of those mystery things you find when you hover over your name on the home page - the other is your sourcebox. I saw that you commented about finding those things in another discussion thread. You can also choose to make your email public so other users can contact you directly. Hopefully now I will know when new changes are made to Family Tree.
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  • Agreed. there is a balance between changing a bunch of relationship conclusions in a batch-like mode vs. making the user think about each conclusion that is being changed. There are a number of these batch-like operations that the software could query and facilitate the user through.
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    • There is a Spousal relationship between two persons. This can exist whether there are children or not to that couple.

      A couple "bubble" exists if there is at least one child to parent. If there is a mother and father it doesn't mean there's a spousal relationship.

      You can delete/edit/add a Spousal relationship between two people irrespective of children.
    • But all that disappears is any relationship information if a child is attached it still looks like a couple. Most do not understand the difference between a couple "bubble" and a spousal relationship. If you really want them to be different you are going to have to change color or something else. To most user they are the same thing just no relationship information.
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  • You know, I have rethought editing vital info, etc., and deleting relationships, and adding children to families, etc. I think we need to do all this in a certain order. My feeling now is that it is best to resolve duplicate records with a merge first, where the correct names, and dates can just be moved over, instead of spending time editing vital info. Likewise, a merge may bring in a child or parent you wish to add. So merge dups before edit is what I'm going to teach. I just wish I could get a clear handle on why some merges work, and some don't. But if I swap the record on the left with the one on the right, just switch their places, then the merge works. I'm sure it has to do with the KW ID #s, or maybe with which record has the earliest temple work attached to it. I really don't know. Just guessing. I think the last action needs to be the Delete Relationship of spouse, child, or parent. If there is someone out there with the one right answer to the proper order of these activities, please inform us.
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  • I’m worried.
    Where do all the deleted records go? Especially if they have the same ID and Name but are really someone else with a spouse and children. Will they just come up as possible duplicates and be marked "Not a Match"? How can they ever be recovered to be who they truly are? Who recovers them? Who knows enough that they are really the person they are and not this other name they have been given? Do we all need to check each ancestor again and again and if they aren't there somewhere, add them again? Then will the ordinances just magically appear because that other name and ID are not a duplicate of the correct name and/or ID? So then do we do them again and that becomes the date and not the real date, some back in the early years of the church? How can the right information ever come up for a person that was combined but assigned a different name and ID?
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  • When an individual ("record") is deleted it will show up in any relationships and individuals that had relationship with the deleted individual. If you are watching any such affected individual you will get notified.

    The screen to view the deleted individual will show all the data that was relevant just prior to the delete so the user will be able to see that info. THe changlog will be intact so you can trace back changes in the data.

    Once Deleted that data is nolonger part of the duplicate matching search - that only shows valid data.

    Deletes are OpenEdit meaning any user will be able to Undelete the individual and the associated relationships. Any action dealing with relationships should be carefully considered before making the change.

    Ordinance information that was part of the deleted individual is moved to the surviving individual in the case of Merge. Merges keep track of the id's so you can follow the chain of transitions. THe ordinance info is not lost and will be able to be moved to the correct individual as that feature is implemented.
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  • I thought FT was supposed to be easier to use than nFS. If we are trying to appeal to more users who might not be quite as technologically sophisticated, I think we are failing. Everything about FT is easier and more fun, except for Merge and Delete Relationships, and I think the reason they are not fun, is because we really don't understand those actions nor their ramifications yet. We're having nightmares over these two issues. Let's hope these processes get more transparent.
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  • I serve in the Family History Library. We are excited about Family Tree!! It is a much more powerful program than New Family Search. Since people tend to resist change, we simply tell our visitors how wonderful Tree is and how much they will enjoy using it. This tends to soften their natural tendency to resist change. (Think of the stated desire of the children of Israel to return to Egypt.) If we all understand this human tendency, we can better help those around us to grow to love Family Tree.
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