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HUGE number of incorrect Record Hints on Scandinavians in the tree

I wish FamilySearch would stop putting up all these Record Hints every time another Swedish film is indexed. 90% of the hints on my ancestors' pages are wrong. Most have different wives, lived in different places and had different kids. Swedish people didn't have that many different names. Just because someone is named Jonas Mansson doesn't mean he is the Jonas Mansson in some other town with a different wife who that Jonas Mansson married 10 years earlier or later. This is so frustrating, because if I don't stay on top of all the Record Hints as they are added, most of which have to be declared Not a Match, somebody who doesn't know what they are doing attaches them and adds wrong wives and sometimes merges them, adds wrong children, etc. and messes up families I found by pouring over microfilms page by page for many hours for over twenty years. And then somebody else is going to come along and grab a green temple and off they go to seal the wrong wife and child to my ancestor. Because if FamilySearch puts a Record Hint there it must be true. Please, please, please stop putting Record Hints on Swedes and Danes if the system can't do a better job than it does. This is serious business, not a game. Please.
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  • Dale

    When you write, "What could possibly be Family Search's objection to doing that if their top priority is accuracy?" I assume you are speaking with tongue in cheek!

    Sadly, the action of FamilySearch management has illustrated exactly the opposite in my experience. Whether it is with the careless way they suggest record hints or their complete refusal to make corrections to known errors, working towards greater accuracy always seems to be set aside. "There have been greater priorities" has been the response (these have become rarer and rarer from managers lately) to posts that show this particular issue is not being addressed. "Greater priorities" has meant making things look prettier, with the main aim to attract greater involvement, never mind whether this will be by those with little or no experience of genealogy.

    True, there needs to be basic enhancements to the progam - I have sometimes suggested some myself, which I feel would make life easier for us. However, I feel now is the time for someone at the top to acknowledge things are going rather downhill at the moment and do everything possible - from improved algorithms and making basic training more easily available, to at last making changes to those incorrectly headed indexed records that can point users in the completely wrong direction.

    Two weeks ago I politely requested Brian Jensen to confirm he is still following this thread. He has responded to points raised elsewhere, so I would kindly ask him again - are you taking note of the specific examples Dale been providing, with a view to improving the current, flawed algorithm?
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  • I’m frustrated
    Paul,

    Totally agree with all that. And, yes, I do know that accuracy is not a priority. I started another thread several years ago asking them not to allow adding GEDCOM files to the tree anymore, and I have put lots of additional comments in it, too. My two big issues have been GEDCOM's and Record Hints. Now I have three -- Ordinances Ready. No, four -- campaign emails. Ordinances Ready could be great if, again, they would tell people CHECK THE NAME AND HIS OR HER FAMILY MEMBERS FIRST. But they don't. They just say grab and go period and sing the feature's praises. "It's so easy!"
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  • I've been getting a large number of "Hints" where (1) the source is already attached to a person, with the CORRECT parents, siblings, dates, etc., and (2) the "Hinting" parents, siblings, or dates do NOT match at all. A less careful person could really make a mess of the attached sources and relationships by detaching good matches and attaching bad matches.

    I'd say 70% of the hints for my ancestors over the past few days have been bad hints.

    I have an attached an example, which unfortunately does not show the correct couple that this source was attached to. Take my word for it, it was attached to a perfect match of names and dates for both members of the couple, and then I got this rotten "hint".

    Janet
    • view 2 more comments
    • Which is also a problem. Somebody will attach it and merge the sisters.
    • The other thing many of the bad Record Hints I have posted, and I can only assume those others have posted, need to be really looked at along with the data on the page to see the problems. I personally don't have time to explain it to people. I have to spend my time fixing the problems. I really don't think anybody who takes the time to post bad Record Hints here doesn't know what they are doing. Well, other than that we are wasting our time posting (and sometimes explaining) bad hints in a desperate hopeless attempt to make those in control see the problem. I guess in that respect we don't know what we are doing. ;)
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  • Janet, thank you so much for posting this. I wish everybody who finds them knew about this thread and would post them. My experience is that 70% sounds just about right.
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  • Wow! Here is a perfect example I just found in the pioneer lineage tree of a friend of mine whom I am helping. I saw a totally empty line in the mid-1800's in her fan chart and right away I thought there has to be a mistake here. This member has a pioneer tree that makes it hard to find any ancestors to do temple work for. So I went to the page where the ancestor now shows no husband in the tree and check this out. Somebody attached THREE sources for a totally different person who lived in a totally different place had totally different children and she added all those children and now she has a bunch of cards printed for totally bogus ordinances. Obviously, this person hasn't a clue what she is doing, so you know they were Record Hints! This is terrible.

    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...

    Does anybody with authority at FamilySearch International care that this is happening????? A lot!!! I don't understand why people in the trenches who are actually working in Family Tree are assumed to be dummies whose feedback is of no value.
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    • Joe, I think Dale is referring to the second of the three couple relationship, which appears to have different children and the third couple with a 'similar' spouse & one child.
      Looking at the 12 sources for Anna L2SQ-P2R, it appears one person added 5, two others 3 each. FWIW
    • I must have seen the three sources from one person on a child's page. But my friend was just here. L2SQ-P2R is her gr-grandmother. So I'm not familiar with her family, but she is. All you need to do is click on each of the children in the first marriage to see that there is a problem. Some had their work done in 1934 and some recently. The whole page is a mess.

      It's taken me awhile, but I think I finally found the problem. Somebody attached death certificate for her on Feb. 24, 2018 which says her mother is Anna H. Swenson, and at the same time she merged her with an Anna Sophia Gustafson, so I am going to restore the correct mother before I do anything else. But I'm waiting to hear back from my friend first who is going to check with someone who knows her ancestry better than she dies if they know for sure the mother is Anna H. Svenson. But I also found another crazy one Hint in my friend's tree. I'll post it.
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  • Here is another really crazy one. There are 7 birth Record Hints on this father's page for his children.

    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...

    Not one of them is for Ostergotland where all 8 of his real children were born. They are all for Kalmar, Jonkoping or Kronoberg. Go figure. It's not like the father has an unusual Swedish name --Samuel Johansson.

    He had two real wives -- Lena Jacobsdotter and Stina Larsdotter. Only one of the 8 mothers in the 8 sources matches one of his real wives. The others are one of these three:
    Stina Persdotter
    Stina Eliaesdotter
    Lena Larsdotter

    I guess they all had either the first or last name of one of his wives, but Stina and Lena are VERY common Swedish names and so are Persdotter and Larsdotter.
    Go figure.

    And Samuel Johansson only had ONE child with any of the names of the 7 children and that child has an exact birth date in the tree and the birth date of the other child with a different mother and birthplace was born two years earlier and 6 months before his parents marriage date which is there. It happens, but just one more reason to question it.

    I'll leave these here for a little while, but I promised my friend I would save her tree from the destruction of FamilySearch Record Hints, so you might have to see them as rejected Record Hints in the Changes. :(
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    • Record Hints will be updated within minutes of any Family Tree Person changes. And adding new relationships really helps our Hinting engine calculate accurate Hints and I can see that "Stina Larsen" was added as a wife on the 8th. It also helps that "Stina" is a unique name.
    • Stina Larsen and Stina Larsdotter are the name really. And I didn't add her. I merged the duplicate I found for her and kept the Larsdotter in the merge because I know from all the Swedish records I have searched over the years that Larsdotter is more accurate. But she was there when I first went to Samuel Johansson's page the other day. So she wasn't "added." And Stina is a very common name in my Swedish lines. I just found 30 of them in my Roots Magic, so that's just my direct lines and their children.

      Point is there was no reason for those Record Hints to disappear after those merges. None of the people or data on those pages changed at all. Other than the Stina that was already there changing from Larsen to Larsdotter. I mean all 7 of them should never have been there in the first place, but nothing I did in those merges helped them disappear. I don't know the inner workings of computers and websites, but I know genealogy and I know Family Tree, and those Record Hints do more harm than good.
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  • I don't like the way you have to click on Previous at the top of the thread or you don't see the huge list of bad Record Hints that have been posted. So I'm posting this again.

    Here is another really crazy one. There are 7 birth Record Hints on this father's page for his children.

    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...

    Not one of them is for Ostergotland where all 8 of his real children were born. They are all for Kalmar, Jonkoping or Kronoberg. Go figure. It's not like the father has an unusual Swedish name --Samuel Johansson.

    He had two real wives -- Lena Jacobsdotter and Stina Larsdotter. Only one of the 8 mothers in the 8 sources matches one of his real wives. The others are one of these three:
    Stina Persdotter
    Stina Eliaesdotter
    Lena Larsdotter

    I guess they all had either the first or last name of one of his wives, but Stina and Lena are VERY common Swedish names and so are Persdotter and Larsdotter.
    Go figure.

    And Samuel Johansson only had ONE child with any of the names of the 7 children and that child has an exact birth date in the tree and the birth date of the other child with a different mother and birthplace was born two years earlier and 6 months before his parents marriage date which is there. It happens, but just one more reason to question it.

    I'll leave these here for a little while, but I promised my friend I would save her tree from the destruction of FamilySearch Record Hints, so you might have to see them as rejected Record Hints in the Changes. :(
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    Please stop attaching record hints to Scandinavians. Two weeks ago I spent at least 4 hours detaching over 20 records from one of my ancestors that had been attached by 3 different people. I haven't even made it to her husband yet who the exact same records were attached too. Last week I had to detach some of those same records again because one of the same people who attached them before attached them again even though I was very specific in why the records did not belong with the ancestor. I messaged to woman and she said that none of my explanations showed up on the records, which leads me to believe that she did not bother checking the recent changes page. She just saw the records there again and attached them. The other thing is that I have tried dismissing the hints and they just stay on the page. They don't go away. NONE of the records even matched with my ancestors as far as dates, ages and places. The only thing that was partly a match were names and even then some were stretching things a bit. When the last name of the person in the hint is completely different from the person that it is being suggested to attach it to, you would think that that would be a clue that something is not right.
    I understand that the purpose of the record hints is to "help" people and give them clues to where records for their ancestors are. But it is not working like that. People see a record hint on their ancestor and just attach it without checking the actual source first. This makes a real mess for those of us who actually know what we're doing and know how to research properly. If I have to spend hours every week fixing another persons mistakes on our common ancestor, that takes away time from me being able to do research on my other ancestors.
    In my opinion, record hints do not work for a community tree. If this was Ancestry, where everyone has their own tree and they choose to attach wrong records and mess up the tree, at least it doesn't greatly effect others.
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  • 1
    Dale,

    I'm sure you know all of this, but there are multiple inherent problems with Sweden and hinting, which is likely due to the patronymic naming system prior to 1900 and the location change between Län (county) and Länskap (Province) causing confusion. Of course, the very common use of names, with various iterations and similar problems with parish names found in many different counties adds to the problem.

    However, their Lutheran Church has done such a great system of keeping track of everyone, for centuries almost precludes the need for hints. ArkivDigital is easy to use and very complete.

    I, too, see the same hinting problems, but thankfully the lines I work on don't have as many people 'working' on them.

    Scandinavia does create unique hinting problems and I salute you for your diligence in trying to verify, properly source and create 'worthy records'

    Tack så mycket!
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  • Yes, Robert, I sure do know all of that. I searched microfilmed Swedish parish records page by page for 30+ years for my ancestors. Had to pay to borrow each film, wait two weeks or more to get it, drive to my FHC, spend hundreds of hours searching hundreds of rolls of film, and then typed hundreds of family group sheets (on a typewriter) for many generations of many lines of my non-LDS grandmother's ancestors, sent my temple submissions through the mail, and waited weeks to get back the paperwork I needed to do their ordinances, and then drove 5-1/5 hours to our closest temple where the office printed my cards and with the help of other family and ward members got their work done. NOBODY else was doing any of those lines but me. I went back to the very early 1600's an most lines. And when nFS first started, I could look at their ordinances and know right away which family member did them for me by the year and temple. And until Record Hints, nobody had worked on ANY of those lines but me. The lines on the other side of my family from about 4 generations back were constantly being played around with carelessly, so that kept me busy fixing those. And I would check my grandmother's Swedish lines and think "thank goodness nobody is working on those!" But then Record Hints happened, and all my years of meticulous researching and recording of data is being destroyed by church members who have never done research (obviously!) are dutifully doing just what they've been told -- look for Record Hints and attach them and then do the temple work that hasn't been done. "See how easy we have made this for you? Anybody can do it!" :) I will never, ever, ever, ever understand why nobody appreciates the efforts of those who have worked so hard for so many years -- when it WASN'T easy. We come here and try to explain and nobody cares. Our work is treated like a plaything.

    And you're right about it especially being a problem for Scandinavian records. In fact, I put that in the title of this thread when I started it. But when Brian Jensen asked for some examples, I have sent him plenty that aren't Swedish or Danish. They're all over.
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    • It's worse than that. People don't just assume it's easy. They get told it's easy by idiot marketers at the major genealogy companies and also by stupid campaigns from the marketing department of Familysearch (notice the common thread there). Even beyond that they get wrong-headed presentations made by various people "called" to positions involving genealogy within the Mormon organisation who tell them to willy-nilly grab as many names as possible without the slightest bit of research.
    • I think the person on the FS Community forum I encountered today must've fallen for the propaganda: apparently, she came up with a birthplace for her husband's ancestor by looking for people with the right name. The town she picked had 13 of them baptised in the right decade, it must be right, no? And then she attached a different baptism as a source for "her" guy -- except the one she chose says clearly in the remarks that the child died at the age of 2. Oh, and she attached the source for the apparently-randomly-chosen baptism to a different (also index-based auto-generated) profile from a different town a century earlier. People really do think that if it's the same name, it's the same person!
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  • 1
    It's not just Scandinavia. I just had the same thing happen with my English "Clarke" family. Somebody saw record hints for christening records for the children of John Clarke in West Haddon, Northamptonshire, England and attached them to their ancestor who spent his whole life in Virginia. And these hints were already attached to the correct people, but they detached them and created new profiles! With the record hints, they added seven new children, all born in England, to this man from Virginia. Luckily I caught it and was able to clean it up.

    I keep a "backup" tree with my own research and sources on Ancestry.com, so if somebody changes something, I can quickly look at my reference and sources and see what I know is correct. It helps.

    There definitely needs to be better user education and "warning labels" of some sort on the record hints.
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  • Virginia and England have been problem Record Hints in my tree, too.
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  • Just letting you know about another bad Record Hint. According to her page in Family Tree and my own records, Anna Margrethe Pedersdatter died in 1828, so she couldn't have been the mother of a child born in 1830. And she was born, married and died in Ringkobing, Denmark. There is no mention of any other county on hers, her husband's, her one child's or her parents' pages, and definitely not Praesto County anywhere. And there is no child Niels Nielsen on her page. So why is this Record Hint there? It will be declared Not a Match by the time anybody sees it, so you'd have to look in the Changes.

    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/per...
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  • And here is a possible duplicate on the same page. Fortunately, anybody that might have attached it won't be able to because they are the opposite sex! So at least I don't have to worry about that happening.
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  • The 1930 census came up as a Record Hint for a woman who died in 1835. Born in 1727, which doesn't make sense either, but it's just one more reason this Record Hint should never have been on her page. Also Mary Ann Cash was born in Maryland. The one on the 1930 census with a totally different last name (Cadden) was born in Ireland. The first name, Mary, is the only thing that is the same! I wonder how many Mary's lived in Maryland between 1727 and 1930.

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