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identified as being an location

Middlesborough, Yorkshire, England, this is not identified as being an location - this is a recognised format for BDM.
Place Names, Districts, Counties, Country

Dont take to long -
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  • The earlier spelling of this had two letter "o" in transcripts. Even though the spelling of today is "Middlesbrough" this is also shortened "Middlesbro'."

    The spelling with the two letter "o" is as follows :- Middlesborough.
    • "The earlier spelling of this had two letter "o" in transcripts"

      Which particular transcripts? If someone has used two "o" in an indexing when the original had just one "o", then that's an error in the indexing, not a genuine alternative spelling. If there are historical documents which use 2 "o" as a matter of course and not in error, then that becomes a different matter.

      As I understand it, the Standard Place-names tool is supposed to record the "correct" versions of place-names and their spelling. Therefore an abbreviation or an incorrect spelling shouldn't become a standard place-name.

      But see below...
    • Also what earlier spelling? The town was founded in 1830 and the name was spelt Middlesbrough at that point. Prior to then there was just a farm called Middlesbrough.
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  • Suggestion to the Place-names Standards team:

    Possible change to "Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England"

    If "Alternate Names" are still being used to pick-up abbreviations and spelling variants, then I would suggest adding an Alternate Name of "Middlesbro" as a typical abbreviation, and also an Alternate Name of "Middlesborough" as a typical spelling error.
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    • Thank you for your clarification, Adrian & Alan, and apologies for my misunderstanding of the issue. Nevertheless, I am still "comforted" by Alan's saying, "..we wouldn't want to add a large number of these variant types"!
    • Thank you Paul and Adrian for your comments. We will try to help clarify issues as they come up. We also value the expertise from our patrons!
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  • Here are the current choices for MIddlesbrough in the Place Research Tool:



    And the information you get when you check any of them:



    It's interesting to see that when you search in the catalog for Middlesbrough you get this:



    but searching for Middlesborough you get this:



    Doing an exact search in the historical records gives this:



    Doing a search in Google brings up this TV station:



    but all the news stories that include the name on this page use Middlesbrough as the spelling.

    So it does certainly appear that Middlesborough should be added as a variant name.

    You can also request this by posting it at:
    https://community.familysearch.org/s/...

    or by e-mailing to:
    placefeedback@familysearch.org
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  • Gordon

    The spellings in the FamilySearch Catalog appears to be errors - as does the ITV one - though I'm very surprised to see this one: a British TV concern should take more care!

    As David implies, there is little evidence to suggest the spelling "Middlesborough" has EVER been used "officially". So, unless we are to promote the inclusion of variant names based purely on spelling errors, I would not agree this one should go forward for inclusion.
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    • Well, certainly at one time, the Alternative Names were supposed to include spelling variations. They told me:
      "We tend to err on the side of too many alternate names, even incorrect ones, as a way of helping people identify the correct standard."

      Now, of course they may have had a rethink since then, but Bristol includes Alternate Names of Bristole and Bristle, which I've always presumed were spelling errors driven by the accent. Unlike Brigstow, which I think is a real former spelling.

      See what they say. If I can find the thread in the Community again...
    • Another thing supporting that it was never spelt other than Middlesbrough is that there is also a town called Brough in Yorkshire and a village called Brough in Cumbria as well. So there is etymological evidence that Brough could act as a kind of place name ending, in the same way that -cester indicates a former Roman town and -by a town founded by the Vikings.
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  • Yes all very well- the point of bringing this to you all is that the United Kingdom interpitation of locations on this site does not conform to those records that are common place. And alhough we may say a person was born in one place but registered in another - this is what the records should be working to -
    www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/places/regindex2...
    • Stephen

      I have to disagree with you when you state that the "... United Kingdom interpitation of locations on this site [ "FamilySearch" ] does not conform to those records that are common place ..."!

      Granted, "FamilSearch", in its "Place Names" database, is not perfect; but, neither is anything else.

      That "Link" that you provided is a link to a "Spreadsheet" that is a "New" 'Parish Index' at "https://www.ukbmd.org.uk", certainly NOT a/the definitive authority.

      "FamilySearch" through the "Place Names" Database is looking at, both, past and current "Place Names", not just "New" Place Names; and/or, those in common use (today).

      I just did a "Find" in that "Spreadsheet"; and, found some x16 references to "Middlesbro"; and, NONE with the spelling of "Middlesborough".

      There are many more definitive authorities for "Place Names" in England (and throughout the 'United Kingdom') than "https://www.ukbmd.org.uk".

      Brett
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  • What on earth do you mean "the point of bringing this to you all is that the United Kingdom interpitation (sic) of locations on this site does not conform to those records that are common place"?

    You link to a list of registration districts which has the spelling Middlesbrough as well. You also make a very, very, very fundamental mistake. The naming hierarchy in the United Kingdom is NOT Place Names, Districts, Counties, Country. It is not that in reality. It is not that in the Familysearch places database either. If anything the registration districts hierarchy in the places database is fundamentally wrong in Familysearch in any case. They try and shoehorn the registration districts into what is their standard hierarchy which is Place, County, Country, United Kingdom. That doesn't work because not only do some registration districts span multiple counties (up to three), but some even cross country borders as well. Wrexham registration district started off covering parts of three different counties: one in England and two in Wales. The registration districts should rest immediately under the legal jurisdiction which they are part of: Northern Ireland, Scotland, or England and Wales.
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  • FYI: Just to give a bit of background on https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/places/r...

    The document is marked up as (c) Brett Langston and, knowing Brett's work from elsewhere, I'd be pretty certain that this list is as definitive as it's possible to be. What, however, we need to understand is what it's a definitive list of.

    It lists Civil Parishes, which are important to registration since they cover all of England & Wales, thus defining enabling the definition of registration areas for everywhere. That's why they're used instead of settlements. But, important point, because they are used for registration, Brett's list only starts in 1837.

    For each Civil Parish, it gives the County and then the Registration District (not the other way round by the way). As David points out, County and Registration District are (depending on what sort of a county is meant????) in different hierarchies so sometimes things get a little flaky, even though it's the County for the Civil Parish here, rather than the County for the (much bigger) Registration District.

    Civil Parishes are not settlements, but most UK genealogists will enter most of their data located to a settlement - with all sorts of variations if it's a farm in the middle of nowhere. While most Civil Parishes are named for settlements, oddities happen. For instance, in Cheshire:
    1. There is a Civil Parish named Church Hulme in Cheshire - however, the settlement is the (similarly named) village of Holmes Chapel, which contains the parish church of Church Hulme parish, and sits in the former township, later civil parish, of Church Hulme.

    2. There are two Civil Parishes in Brett's list named Crewe, both in Cheshire. I know that they are on almost opposite sides of the county - one is named for the village often known as Crewe-by-Farndon, but without the latter 2 words. And the other is - not what some of you think it is. It was originally the township of Crewe in the parish of Barthomley and is now known as Crewe Green. It contained Crewe Hall and Crewe Railway Station - it did not contain the railway town of Crewe, which lay on the other side of Crewe Railway Station. From 1877 the railway town of Crewe was administered by the Borough of Crewe but the extent of the Borough of Crewe was defined (originally) as the Civil Parish of Monks Coppenhall.

    (Similar issues exist with 2 Chorltons and 2 Chorleys and even I don't know what locals call all of them).

    The point of the above is not to display my knowledge of Cheshire but to illustrate that Civil Parishes are only part of the story and may not easily support settlements. FS's standard place-names appear to have been sensibly partly derived from civil parishes but to also already include church parishes and settlements - the latter on a fairly ad hoc basis, partly since there is no definitive list of settlements, as they range in size from London down to a house and a pub by a cross-roads in the middle of nowhere.

    I suspect that Brett's list on that link is a reformatting of data obtained from the GRO on registration districts. An example of his other work is
    https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/district...
    This details Great Boughton reg. district, which is the one that included the Crewe CP containing Crewe-by-Farndon. Presumably its (presumed) GRO source is why Brett didn't rename the 2 Crewes.
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