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Please add "New" LABEL for Military Award being "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with Sub LABELS being British; Canada; Australia; &, New Zealand

Please add a NEW "Label" for the "Military Award" of / being the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being (1) Victoria Cross ( British ); (2) ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross; (3) Victoria Cross ( for Australia ); and, (4) Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand ).

As the "Military Award" of "Medal of Honor Recipient" for the 'United States of America' is included as a "Label", could you ALSO please ADD a NEW "Label" for the "Military Award" of the Highest Level for a number of the 'British' Commonwealth countries of / being the:

Victoria Cross, Recipient

[ Note: As above with "Comma" ]

with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being

- Victoria Cross ( British )
- ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross
- Victoria Cross ( for Australia )
- Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand )

[ Note: As above with "Parentheses" ]

Please ensure that the principle "Label" of "Victoria Cross, Recipient" SHOULD be attached in the first instance; and, that the relevant 'Sub' "Labels" CAN also be attached, as appropriate. In other words, both, the principle "Label" of "Victoria Cross, Recipient" and the relevant 'Sub' "Label", can both be attached, independently; and, at the same time / together / in tandem.

The first 'Sub' "Label", of (1) Victoria Cross ( British ), established on 29 January 1856, would pertain to the Recipients in "Family Tree" in the 'United Kingdom'; and, 'Countries of British Commonwealth', up until the relevant Countries establishment of their own "Victoria Cross" Honour Award.

Likewise, as inferred by the aforementioned paragraph, the other 'Sub' "Labels", for 'Canada', 'Australia' and 'New Zealand', would pertain to the Recipients in "Family Tree" in those Countries from the date of the relevant establishment of their own "Victoria Cross" Honour Award.

It should be noted that as "Sources" can NOW definitely be ( created and ) attached to both "Deceased" and "Living" individuals / persons in "Family Tree"; then, the use of "Labels", such as, "Medal of Honor Recipient" for the 'United States of America'; and, the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" for Countries of the 'British' Commonwealth, can and will most probably be used; and, of personal significance, as time passes.

To support this request, I have included a few simple references from "Wilipedia":

Victoria Cross ( "British" )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victori...

Canada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victori...

Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victori...

New Zealand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victori...

I am aware that there are many "Military Awards" of the Highest Level for many other Countries in the World, that can; and, most probably will, be requested and included as "Labels", as time passes. Please be aware that I am in no way being insensitive to such "Military Awards" of the Highest Level for other Countries in the World by this request.

'Thank You' in advance.
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    This is where the label becomes an issue. "The Victoria Cross (VC) is the highest award of the British honours system. It is awarded for gallantry "in the presence of the enemy" to members of the British Armed Forces."

    For the "enemy" forces, what about them and the sacrifices they make?

    That is exactly the issue Ron (the Family Tree Guy) Tanner brought up when discussing the "Labels" concerns. Like Americans, the British do not have "clean hands" when it comes to some of the battles their forces have engaged in, including, but not limited to the Zulu uprising (Secrets of the Dead PBS series episode "The Day of the Zulu").

    The problem with the Victoria Cross, is that all awards for gallantry would then need to be added, for all forces, regardless of the country or the actions.

    Personally, my feelings are that this is the type of thing that needs to relegated to memories for the individuals so awarded and/or a category in "Other Information" used in place of Labels.
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  • I’m still hopeful
    Tom

    Wow ...

    I have always appreciated and valued your comments and insight in this "GetSatisfaction" 'Feedback' Forum.

    And, I really commend you ( just as another User / Patron in the Forum ) for the way that you "Welcome" new participants in this "GetSatisfaction" 'Feedback' Forum.

    But ...

    That said, of late I am concerned that your frustration ( like many in the Forum ) is coming to the fore.

    I am well aware of your angst at the at the limitless possibilities, direction and divisiveness of the "Labels" feature.

    I have expressed my angst at the expansion of the "Labels" feature beyond its original premise of "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" ( 1847 – 1868 ) and the "Companies" associated with that Travel, in a number of posts in this Forum.

    Personally, I did not have any angst with the inclusion of the original "Labels" feature, of the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" ( 1847 – 1868 ); and, the "Companies" associated with that Travel, into "Family Tree", despite that fact that I am not from the North American continent and originally did not have any Ancestors who fitted into such "Labels".

    As a Member of the Church, of course, I appreciate the History of the Church ( in the latter days ); and, as such, the inclusion of the original "Labels", of the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" ( 1847 – 1868 ); and, the "Companies" associated with that Travel; plus, the addition of the "Label" for the "Mormon Battalion".

    I am well aware and appreciate the now World Wide appeal and use of, "FamilySearch" and "Family Tree"; but, even so, they were created by the Church for ( but, not exclusively ) the use of Members of the Church. I certainly love and wholeheartedly encourage non-members of the Church to use "FamilySerach" as a Research Tool; and, is they wish, use and participate in ( ie. be part of ) "Family Tree", a World Tree.

    'Yes', the expansion of the "Labels" feature beyond its original premise of "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" ( 1847 – 1868 ) and the "Companies" associated with that Travel; plus, the addition of the "Label" for the "Mormon Battalion", concerns me; and, the now seemingly limitless possibilities and direction; plus, the divisiveness that certain "Labels" can create, is what also concerns me.

    But ...

    In relation to your "Reply" in this post ...

    Firstly, you state ... "For the "enemy" forces, what about them and the sacrifices they make?"

    Did not you read and take into consideration my closing paragraph in this post; and, I quote ... "I am aware that there are many "Military Awards" of the Highest Level for many other Countries in the World, that can; and, most probably will, be requested and included as "Labels", as time passes. Please be aware that I am in no way being insensitive to such "Military Awards" of the Highest Level for other Countries in the World by this request.".

    You seem to have negated my closing paragraph; and, this in itself, spoils the premise of what you are trying to get across and brings your frustration to the fore.

    What disappoints me the most in your "Reply" is that you seem to be nullifying my suggested enhancement for the addition of a NEW "Label" for the "Military Award" of / being the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being (1) Victoria Cross ( British ); (2) ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross; (3) Victoria Cross ( for Australia ); and, (4) Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand ); and, ONLY cursory suggest that such "Military Awards" be relegated to "Memories" or "Other Information"; but, you DO NOT acknowledge that there is already an EXISTING "Label" for a "Military Award" being "Medal of Honor Recipient" for the 'United States of America'; whereas, you may feel that you have inferred such; but, you did not directly include in your comments any suggestion to remove such "Label" as the "Medal of Honor Recipient" for the 'United States of America'.

    Just to put things in perspective ...

    The current list / set of "Labels" in "Family Tree" can be grouped into the following Three (3) main categories:

    Generic ( Acceptable for use World wide )

    - Politicians
    - Sports Figures
    - Musicians and Composers
    - Military Figures
    - Entertainers
    - Authors and Writers
    - Artists and Architects
    - Scientists and Inventors
    - Business Leaders
    - Social Reformers
    - Famous Writers
    .. [Although, unnecessary and could be encompassed by "Authors and Writers"]
    - Explorers
    - Educators
    - Philanthropists
    - Science and Technology

    LDS / Mormon ( limited )

    - Mormon Overland Pioneers ( ie. Early Utah Mormon Pioneers )
    -- Companies associated to the 'Mormon Pioneers'
    - Mormon Battalion
    -- Companies associated with the Battalion
    - Joseph Smith Papers
    - Nauvoo Citizens
    - Pioneer Rescuers
    - Famous LDS Members

    Northern American ( limited )

    - Medal of Honour Recipients
    - US Presidents and Vice Presidents
    - Declaration Signers
    - Constitution Signers
    - US First Ladies
    - US Supreme Court Justices
    - Mayflower
    - American Civil War
    - War of 1812

    The aforementioned current list of "Labels" in "Family Tree" are undoubtedly only the start of the seemingly limitless possibilities and direction; plus, the divisiveness that certain "Labels" can create.

    As far a I am aware; and, please correct me if I am wrong; but, I do not think that we have seen a current "White Paper" on the Direction of the "Labels" feature in "Family Tree"; and, certainly no information on to the present course or any possible changes to the "Labels" feature in "Family Tree".

    I am ONLY working WITH the "Labels" feature in "Family Tree" that exists HERE and NOW.

    By the way, to the best of my knowledge, I DO NOT have any "Victoria Cross" Recipients in my Ancestry / Heritage ( of course, that does not mean that I will not come across any in the future ).

    But, I do believe that "Victoria Cross" Recipients from the "British" Commonwealth Countries are just as worthy of note, as do the "Medal of Honor Recipient(s)" for the 'United States of America'.

    'Tom', I am sorry; but, it appears, that at this present juncture in time, that the current 'design' and 'status' / 'functionality' and 'list' of the "Labels" feature in "Family Tree" is here for some time, for the present, anyway.

    This does not mean that the current 'design' and 'status' / 'functionality' and 'list' of the "Labels" feature in "Family Tree" is 'set in concrete'; and, I am certain, if enough "noise is made"; then, things, can and possibly will change.

    But ...

    That said, at this present juncture in time, the request in this post for an enhancement in "Family Tree" for the addition a NEW "Label" for the "Military Award" of / being the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being (1) Victoria Cross ( British ); (2) ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross; (3) Victoria Cross ( for Australia ); and, (4) Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand ), like it or not, IS "Valid".

    And, despite your protestations, the request in THIS post for an enhancement in "Family Tree" for the addition a NEW "Label", DOES NOT denigrate such a request from being made by any User / Patron in "Family Tree" for an enhancement in "Family Tree" for the addition a NEW "Label" for ANY "Military Award" from ANY Country in the World.

    'Tom', I am sorry for the tone of this "Reply" of mine to your "Reply" in this post.

    Please accept my apologies.

    All said and done, I reiterate my request in this post for an enhancement in "Family Tree" for the addition a NEW "Label" for the "Military Award" of / being the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being (1) Victoria Cross ( British ); (2) ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross; (3) Victoria Cross ( for Australia ); and, (4) Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand ) as detailed in the original post.

    Again, 'Thank You in advance.

    Brett
    • Actually, I'm sort of repeating (in my own words) what Ron (The Family Tree Guy) Tanner said with regard to labels several months back when he (more or less) regretted turning it loose, and then realizing that almost any label with regard to wars between various factions, can be taken the wrong way.

      Sure, we would like a way to recognize the accomplishments of our various relatives, whether in peace or war, but the problem lies with what is an honorable award in one society is the bane of its enemies.

      I believe, but do not know, that the idea behind the labels was to identify various people with a group of people who took part in some kind of event, such as a wagon train to Utah, Oregon, California, or backing up in time, one of the first of the woodsmen who crossed the Cumberland Gap into uncharted territory.

      A number of county histories point out that some of my ancestors were instrumental in starting a particular congregation as they pushed Westward into the wilderness of Ohio, Indiana, and Iowa, and that by those acts, they were pioneers in their own rights.

      Many of the labels are innocuous and worth considering, but others are, to put it mildly, awards given to "the enemy" wherever various societies are repressed, persecuted, or killed for their way of life.

      The idea had merit, but where should it end? My opinion was okay at first, when the labels were limited to Mormon Pioneer Companies, but in a way, I felt left out, because my own ancestors followed paths that paralleled the Mormons on their way to Oregon. I am sure others were left out following one of their trails to the Western part of America that was neither the Pacific Northwest or the "everlasting hills" of the Mormon Corridor. And, as far as that goes, why leave out those that Brigham Young assigned to colonize, not only other areas of the Rockies, but also down into Mexico and up into Canada?

      The real problem is not the inclusion of any group of people, but the exclusion of those who were not the part of the included groups.

      My feeling is that FamilySearch would be best off if it discontinue the use of labels as a "badge", but suggested instead, that any awards, no matter how significant or insignificant be left to history in memories or "Other Information" for the persons involved.

      I'm not sure what Ron Tanner's position is with regard to this, but I know that a number of discussions have taken place over the past year or so about labels, where they are located on a person's page, and what to include or exclude.

      That was the whole point of my post above -- that perhaps we need to stop and back out the label idea, rather than exclude various groups for whatever reason. And for me, the problem is that while Victoria Cross and Medal of Honor recipients may have rightfully earned the recognition, I'm not sure that the battles in which they fought had much in the way of honor. And that's where the rub comes in when war/battles/skirmishes are involved.
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  • I’m still hopeful
    Tom

    You know, I had also forgotten that the original "Indicator" for (1) the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" (1847–1868) and (2) the "Companies" associated with that Travel, was called a "Badge". That brings back memories. I regret that this changed. The whole process of getting a "Badge" applied to an individual/person in "Family Tree" was the responsibility of the (I think) the "Church History Department" (or the like); and, unfortunately, not all relevant individuals/persons finished up getting such "Badges". The process to request a "Badge" to be applied to one's Ancestors through the "Church History Department" was tedious and could take some time. What changed everything was that we (the Users/Patrons) wanted/requested a more simple way/process to add such "Badges" to those of our Ancestors (of course, supported by the relevant "Sources") that did not have such "Badges" applied by the "Church History Department", in many cases because the initial process.

    I, like yourself, was not privy to the thoughts and plans; and, subsequent redesign of the "Badges" feature of the (1) the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" (1847–1868) and (2) the "Companies" associated with that Travel, to the new and present day "Labels".

    Nowadays, as the "Labels" feature stands, I will use it, as is.

    I agree that certain "Labels", can; and, may, be divisive; but, hopefully they will be in the minority; and, any such divisiveness can be resolved amicably.

    You have to remember that that we (the Users/Patrons) CANNOT (yet) created our own "Labels" in "Family Tree"; and, must submit a request for the addition of any NEW "Label" to "FamilySearch" to approve (subject to consideration and review) and, if appropriate, applied to the existing "List" of "Labels".

    But ...

    In all SERIOUSNESS, if my request in this post for an enhancement in "Family Tree" for the addition a NEW and (seemingly) valid "Label" for the "Military Award" of / being the "Victoria Cross, Recipient" with the 'Sub' "Labels" of / being (1) Victoria Cross ( British ); (2) ( Canadian ) Victoria Cross; (3) Victoria Cross ( for Australia ); and, (4) Victoria Cross ( for New Zealand ) as detailed in the original post, is DENIED or, even, DELAYED, by "FamilySearch"; then, I am afraid to say it; but, "FamilySearch" MUST immediately, in all good faith, "Remove" the current "Label" of the "Medal of Honor Recipient" for the 'United States of America' - I most certainly DO NOT want that to happen - Please DO NOT let that be so.

    Brett
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  • Brett, have you tried WikiTree? You can add badges, categories, stickers, and who knows what else to profiles, and if there isn't already a category for what you want, you can create one.

    (Personally, I don't see much point to categorization on a shared tree. No category will ever be complete, because we can't expect everyone to think of all of the same possibly-categorizable things about every profile. Creating the sorts of indexes you find at the end of reference books is a specialized skill, and it does not lend itself to collaboration.)
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  • I’m still hopeful
    Juli

    'Thank You' for joining in on this post.

    And, 'Thank You' for the suggestion about the use of the "Wiki Tree", I know as you have indicated in previous posts that your are not a Member of the Church; but, as you would be aware from this and precious posts, I am a Member of the Church; so, for me, its is ONLY "Family Tree" and "FamilySearch"; and, nothing else. I use other sites for Research purposes; but, that is all, no Tree.

    I was an advocate of the old "Badges" for (1) the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" (1847–1868) and (2) the "Companies" associated with that Travel; but, am certainly NOT an advocate for the change from the old "Badges" to the new and expanded "Labels".

    That said, as I previous stated, ... Nowadays, as the "Labels" feature stands, I will use it, as is.

    I just prefer the original premise of the old "Badges" for the (1) the "Mormon Pioneer Overland Travel" (1847–1868) and (2) the "Companies" associated with that Travel.

    Again, 'Thank You'.

    Brett
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