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Please, add, Township, of Witton-cum-Twambrooke, within Northwich hundred, within County of Cheshire, England to List of Standardised Places

Please, add, the Township / Village, by the name of "Witton-cum-Twambrooke", within the "Northwich" Hundred, within the County of "Cheshire", in England, to the list of "Standardised" Places.

Supporting evidence:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/...

http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/pla...

'Thank You'.

Brett
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  • Another place, which I have previously communicated with FS about, is the municipality (gemeente) Tull en 't Waal, in the province Utrecht in the Netherlands.
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  • Requests for place name corrections/insertions should be made via email to:
    placefeedback@familysearch.org
    • Stewart

      'Yes', I am aware that, requests for, insertions; or, corrections, for "Standard" Place Names CAN be made via e-mail to "placefeedback@familysearch.org"

      But, I am also aware that, MANY requests for, insertions; or, corrections, for "Standard" Place Names, HAVE been, both, (1) made; and, (2) actioned, in / through this Forum.

      So, I beleive and suggest, that it is ACCEPTABLE to submit requests for, insertions; or, corrections, for "Standard" Place Names, EITHER, through (1) an e-mail to "placefeedback@familysearch.org"; and / or, (2) in a post in this Forum.

      But, personally, I am not even certain if the submission via an e-mail to "placefeedback@familysearch.org" is still valid - probably is; but, who knows.

      And, why use E-Mail when it can be done through this Forum!?

      Brett
    • I have used the email route quite successfully with a fast turnaround and a polite notification when done.

      I would imagine the email requests go directly to the right people - staff pick-ups from getsatisfaction might be less regular.
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  • Brett

    Would probably be best to send your request in a form consistent with existing standards, rather than the way you have recorded it above - i.e. simply, "Witton-cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire, England" (perhaps adding explanation that it is/was a township within the Northwich Hundred in Cheshire).

    Looking at other websites, the spelling appears not to end with an 'e' but with an 's'. It appears from existing standards that hyphens are optional (e.g. see standards options for Chester le Street, Durham).
    • view 6 more comments
    • Actually the first UK was from 1707 to 1801. The United Kingdom of Great Britain. It united the kingdoms of England and Scotland. Then from 1801 the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and after 1922 the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So the abbreviation UK can stand for one of three, related entities depending on the date.
    • "The United Kingdom of Great Britain"

      Hush! I don't want them creating another version of all the names! :-)

      Actually Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom... in the Etymology section there, says

      "The Treaty of Union and the subsequent Acts of Union state that England and Scotland were to be "United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain", and as such "Great Britain" was the official name of the state, as well as being used in titles such as "Parliament of Great Britain". "

      However, "Both the Acts and the Treaty describe the country as "One Kingdom" and a "United Kingdom", which has led some much later publications into the error of treating the "United Kingdom" as a name before it actually came into being in 1801."

      I've not read the text of the Act to cross-check because either way, I shall continue to ignore the higher level entities for my own purposes!
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  • Just a note about emailing versus posting here: for now, either one is fine.

    At some point in the future (we're hoping in the next few weeks), we'll be requesting that additions/fixes be directed to the following community:

    https://community.familysearch.org/s/...

    Some time after that, we'll shutdown the email, and at some point, will stop monitoring this site (however, that's fairly far off).
    • Dan

      'Thank You' so very much for joining in on this post.

      'Yes', I though that, currently, either was fine.

      I was aware that there was a Project with regard to "Standardised" Place Names - as has been evident in other previous posts. It is nice to now know the Project is coming to fruition.

      I have not yet examined the "Community" - too busy doing the Work.

      Personally, I hope that an "Official 'FamilySearch' Representative(s)" from the Team of "Standardised" Place Names ( or whatever it will be known as in the future ) will NEVER ... "stop monitoring this" ... "Feedback" Forum.

      By the way, please DO NOT add the "United Kingdom" in the "Standardised" Place Name. As far as I am aware is was not known as the "United Kingdom" back then. Unless, of course, unless that that Place still exists today - then two versions are required!?

      And, I am sure you are aware that I DID NOT intent for the Northwich "Hundred" to be included in the "Standardised" Place Name - just there for reference.

      Again, 'Thank You'.

      Brett
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  • Witton is already in - I have just confused myself trying to understand what the distinction is between Witton and Witton-cum-Twambrooks - and I only live down the road!

    From the http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk URL highlighted above:

    "In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Witton like this:

    "WITTON-CUM-TWAMBROOKS, a township and a chapelry in Great Budworth parish, Cheshire. "

    So Vision of Britain explains one as the other.... Confused?
    • Adrian

      'Yes', it is confusing.

      My limited understanding is that, possibly, "Witton-cum-Twambrooke" was a separate township ( and a chapelry ) in the Parish of Great Budworth, in Northwich, Cheshire, England - that no longer exists. But, it still may actually exist, love to know.

      If it is confusing for you, who only lives down the road, I am sure that you can understand my confusion, when I am from "Down Under". But, at least I have recently visited and driven around the UK ( England, Scotland, Wales and North Ireland ) and Ireland; and, now at least have some grounding.

      Brett

      ps: Some of my Ancestors are for Northwich - loved to actually visit and see where they lived.
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  • Brett,

    Thank you for your inquiry regarding Township, of Witton-cum-Twambrooke, within Northwich hundred, within County of Cheshire, England.

    Your request has been assigned to one of our team members to research and resolve.
    • Alan

      'Thank You' so much, really appreciate that.

      Of course, as I have previously stated ... the Hundred ... is not required in the Standard.

      And, I would not have thought that the "United Kingdom" is applicable at that time period. Simply "..., Cheshire, England".

      But, I am no expert, I will leave the exact details up to Experts in the Team for "Standardised" Place Names.

      Again, 'Thank You'.

      Brett
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  • Brett,

    https://www.familysearch.org/research...

    "Witton cum Twambrooks" is listed as a variant/alternate name for the place described as "Witton, Cheshire, England."
    We ask that you select this as the standard place, understanding that Witton cum Twambrooks is another way to describe the same place.
    Witton was a chapelry and later a (civil) parish. It was absorbed into Northwich in 1894. The township of Witton cum Twambrooks was entirely within Witton Chapelry (later parish). It is best described jointly with Witton.

    We begin describing places with "United Kingdom" in 1801. Places previous to 1801 are described simply as "X, Y, England." After 1801, we use "X, Y, England, United Kingdom."

    Thanks for your feedback and interest in helping improve FamilySearch Places!
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  • For your information, as a near native, I couldn't give up on this so.... I think this is what the situation is / was regarding Witton and Witton cum Twambrooks. If you think it's confusing, that's because it is.

    1. Terminology
    - a parish is the unit of the (for our purposes) Church of England, which, until some time in later the 1800s, had both ecclesiastical and civil functions.
    - in the Midlands and North of England (not sure about Wales), parishes could be divided into townships. These seem to be used to discharge many of the civil functions of the parish, such as repairing roads.
    - there is one parish church in each parish.
    - for ease of access, there may be other chapels (strictly, chapels of ease) within a parish. Such chapels could rival the parish church in size.
    - sometimes, the area for which a chapel was responsible for inside a parish, would be formally recognised as a chapelry.

    2. In the area round Northwich, the parish was that of Great Budworth, but Northwich and area had its own chapel of St. Helen, on the hill above what is now Northwich town centre, in an area known as Witton.

    3. So far as I can see, Witton-cum-Twambrooks was one of the townships of Great Budworth - it included the chapel of St. Helen, the hill above the town centre (and Northwich railway station in later years).

    4. Again so far as I can see, St. Helen eventually had a chapelry defined for it. The chapelry was known as Witton and appears to have included the township of Witton-cum-Twambrooks but also a bit more besides. I have no idea how much more...

    Sources:
    http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/pla...
    Refers to Witton and Witton cum Twambrooks in the "Gazetteer of the British Isles" (Edinburgh: Bartholomew, 1887)

    The Witton definition includes:
    "Witton.-- eccl. dist., Great Budworth par., Cheshire, mostly in town of Northwich, pop. 8865. "
    I interpret ecclesiastical district as chapelry in this case.

    And Witton cum Twambrooks includes:
    "Witton cum Twambrooks, township, Great Budworth par., Cheshire, on E. side and wholly in town of Northwich, 622 ac. (69 water), pop. 5704; has breweries, salt-works, iron and brass founding, and boatbuilding. "

    Look at the population figures and you'll see the formal Witton (chapelry) is larger than Witton cum Twambrooks township.

    Caveat 1
    The "Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales" (1870-72),also accessible from that URL starts "WITTON-CUM-TWAMBROOKS, a township and a chapelry in Great Budworth parish, Cheshire". (My emphasis). In other words, this source does not distinguish the chapelry from the township.

    Caveat 2
    While I appear to be making a case for saying that "Witton" is the chapelry rather than the slightly smaller township of Witton cum Twambrooks, I think we can be fairly certain that people would abbreviate Witton cum Twambrooks to simply Witton. So, unless the document were really, really clear, I'd not want to be dogmatic about what a reference to Witton meant.

    On the other hand, Witton cum Twambrooks does seem to have a clear meaning as the township.

    Feel free to be confused or to try to use this to decide what should go in the Standard Places. I have no idea whether the sensible conclusion is to have Witton and Witton cum Twambrooks as separate standard places, or as synonyms.
    • Re "The chapelry was known as Witton and appears to have included the township of Witton-cum-Twambrooks but also a bit more besides. I have no idea how much more... "

      I think the chapelry covered WcT and a number of the townships in and around the town of Northwich, but Mr Google hasn't yet found me a nice clear definition. Sometimes you can find a reference to the legislation / legislative order setting up the chapelry - not yet in this case.
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  • Dan and Adrian

    I just love this. It is so interesting.

    I was "commenting" on what 'Adrian' had posted about my query about the "United Kingdom", when an ( e-mail advice of the ) post from 'Dan' had made came through - I refreshed; and, I was reading and researching what 'Dan' had posted, when a further ( e-mail advice of another ) post from 'Adrian' had made came through - I refreshed the screen again - Wow.

    I do have some researching to do.

    You two guys, 'Thank You' so much.

    I hope you do not mind if I try and "Digest" all of this.

    And, it is even more interesting as a colonial ( from "Down Under" ) who has visited especially Northwich ( but, also Cheshire ).

    Brett

    ps: Now another e-mail advice about another post - while I am writing!

    pps: Sorry, have to get some "shut eye" 1:30 am Saturday here in my "neck of the woods" [ Whereas, about, 9:30 am Friday SLC, Utah ( Mountain Time ) and 4:30 pm Friday London UK ].
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