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Viewing restricted images at FHC by non-members

Please consider giving non-members access to digital images at the at the local Family History Centers. I'd be willing to pay a fee if necessary.
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    At FHCs, it doesn't matter if a person is a member or a non-member. They should be able to view the same historical records equally.

    The FHCs have the additional benefit of allowing patrons (again not restricted to members only) access to a number of partner pay-sites, such as Ancestry, through a special portal.
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    Hi Tom,
    Here is a screen shot of the message we received at the FHC on this past Wednesday. It is just as Nancy described. Maybe it was a glitch and has now been remedied. We called Family Search and they told us to just have a church member sign in. Then, I sent in a online report and you can see their response (Case# 03858107. So, two different opinions. I am very optimistic that the new policy will be as you described. Non-church members will be able to see images at a FHC library which is very fair and generous. Thank you.

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  • Also Tom, just the evening before I was able to view this exact film at home on my computer. I am not a church member, just a volunteer for the past 13 years at our local FHC. Thank you for all of your time. Linda
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  • A week ago there was a major problem viewing images and the last time I looked earlier today the problems had not been fully resolved.

    The problem had to do with access to images. The current policy of access has not changed at FHCs and with discontinued ordering ability, FHC access will be extended, as far as I understand, to affiliate locations upon request by the affiliate.
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  • Hi Tom,
    Well I had high hopes that this problem would be resolved and as you said all patrons to the FHC would be able to see images. Unfortunately this is not the case. I am at our local FHC right now, not signed into any FamilySearch account and I cannot view images. If you would like to try it yourself, try viewing FHL Film#1049175 from a FHC computer. The message you will receive is identical to the one I attached above last week.
    Linda
    • view 2 more comments
    • One additional note the staff may be unfamiliar with contacting support and may defer the problem to the FHC's director. Have them contact the director of the center (hopefully, not out of the area) and let you speak to them. Give them the information that I have provided.

      Note: It is entirely possible that the problem created a few weeks ago where certain films could not be viewed even when a member was logged in, may still be a problem with certain areas and/or films.
    • Thanks Tom, We are on hold with Famiy Search support right now.
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  • Hi Tom,

    Yes, we are not signed in. Never did sign in. But it still doesn't work. Did you try FHC Film# 1049175 item 4 or 1049176 ? We have tried on multiple computers.

    Thank you,

    Linda
    • Sorry for my original (now replaced) reply. I had just woke up and did not see that you said you were not signed in. I had to get to my computer to edit my message and provide the above information.

      I was able to access both the items 1(-3) and 4 while logged in from where I'm staying. If there was a general problem accessing the film, I should not have been able to do that.

      This is sounding more and more like a support problem, since you cannot access the images from more than one computer in the center.
    • Hi Tom, Well, as I said below. It relates to restricted films not available to non-church members.
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  • Hi Tom, Well we have our answer. Some records are restricted to LDS church members. So, if a non-member comes to the FHC, they will not be able to view the digital images. :(

    Linda
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  • That's the first time I have read that some images are restricted even at A FHC.

    I looked at the catalogue entry and when I clicked on the camera icon, the following message came up.
    To view these images you must do one of the following:
    Sign in to Familysearch.org as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Maureen
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  • Ron Tanner (FamilySearch.org Product Manager) September 12, 2017 14:43
    This is coming on new. We have had several collections that we can show the indexes to anyone but only have rights to show the image to members of the LDS Church. We have not shown these collections to anyone previously because we did not support only showing them to LDS Church members. 
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  • Hi Ron, interesting, but some of these now restricted films were previously available to order and view at a FHC. In fact I had done so in the past. There are certainly many changes lately.
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  • I too am having a problem with this. Is there a reason why only FHC members can view the material?

    I am looking at old Spanish documents from Mexico for my research. If nothing else I would love to get a copy. I will post the index here and the block I am getting from Family search:

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  • Also I should say I can not just go to a FHC. ;)
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  • As has been explained in a number of threads on this forum, FamilySearch has to abide by any restricted rights placed by the organization who has copyright of the material concerned. So if they say, yes, you can put our records online, but only if viewing is restricted to LDS Church members or to those attending an LDS Family History Center, FamilySearch has to comply. The alternative would be not to be able to display the material at all.

    My interests in England include records for the county of Suffolk, where the local authority is very restrictive over copying and publication of its material. In this case, I have no choice other than to visit the Suffolk Record Office, or to pay Suffolk County Council for any required copies to be sent to me by post or email.
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  • If you search for the microfilm number 687227 in the catalogue, the search result indicates that the record set Iglesia Católica. Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe (Altar, Sonora), comes from Archivo Diocesano de Hermosillo

    It does seem strange that all the other microfilms in the series Registros parroquiales, 1771-1968 https://www.familysearch.org/search/c..., all of which come from Archivo Diocesano de Hermosillo are freely available, but the one you are interested in, 687227, is the only one which must be viewed at a Family History Centre.

    Perhaps it would be worthwhile using the Get Help tab at the top right hand corner of the FamilySearch home page, Contact Us https://www.familysearch.org/ask/help and ask they they conform whether there has been an error in classifying digitised microfilm 687227 as only viewable at a FamilyHistory Centre, given all the other records from the same Archivo Diocesano de Hermosillo are freely available.

    If FamilySearch confirms that the restricted status on 687227 is correct, if you are able to contact this Diocesean Office, perhaps it will be able you provide you with a copy of the image.
    Unfortunately the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_C... has a webpage link which no longer works. However, perhaps there may be a webpage available in Spanish which provides contact details.

    This seems to be about your only option if you are unable to visit a FamilyHistory Centre.
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  • Paul so are you saying that the FHC or the Mexican FHC has the copyright? I am assuming you mean the Mexican FHC.

    The reason I find this is not the case is the same record is in the same volume and same year and same place as this particular record is also visible.

    It makes ZERO sense that they would randomly restrict this page and not the others in the same volume, same location and same year.

    I sincerely hoping some one from FHC can answer this question more fully in regards to this ongoing issue. For me it doesn't matter if I have to pay to get a copy I just need access to this document.
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  • Sorry, I was not speaking specifically about this film and perhaps copyright was not the correct term to apply here. It appears FamilySearch might have made an error in its restrictions on viewing this film so, yes, you should raise a case regarding the matter. If you still can't get the status of the film changed, please follow Maureen's advice.
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  • 1
    I have another example. Twenty-five years ago I paid for extended term (permanent) rental for FHL#1475021 from Wald-Ülversheim in Rheinhessen, Germany. Also applies to FHL#1475022. I now live in a different state and finally I see that the digitized version of the film is available. I tried to access the film from home, but could not. I then went to the local FHC and tried to access the film, but again received the message that it was only available to LDS members. That’s a major change, and the microfilm can no longer be ordered from the FHL. Why the major change for the identical film that was formerly available?
    • As has been said before, access is controlled by the owners of the original records, not FamilySearch.

      The original access permissions were based upon microfilm distribution, not a digitized copy of the same film. Because of the new format and way to access the images, the contractual agreement has to be renegotiated.

      FamilySearch is working on all of those for the films and is working to obtaining the widest possible access that the owners will allow.

      The status of negotiations are seldom, if ever, made public, no matter who the parties are to the contract.
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    will we be informed about changes in this policy? It is really annoying that we have to contact a member of the church (I know no one) to get a print copy of the records.
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  • I just learned that LDS members cannot see the pictures either. Don't know what the purpose to have the records if nobody can see them.
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    • I understand that. The point being made is about having a service that serves no one.
    • Which is not true. The service is there and covers a very large number of records. Just not all of them. Nothing has really changed from the days when access was only via film. There were a number of films that were restricted to just the Family History Library in SLC because of contractual agreements with the owners of the records.

      The point is that FamilySearch is negotiating for the widest possible access the owners will allow. In many instances, the access was only granted for the films because at the time the original material was filmed, digitization was something that was not being considered.

      In the state where I live, a change in administration resulted in a change in access of the records, specifically the digitized vital statistics held by each county clerk. Those things happen and so the key element here is not complaint, but patience and hope (prayers) that the situation will change and that wider access will someday be allowed.

      If the owners of the records allow only limited access, they are the ones to complain to, not FamilySearch, who will not break a contractual agreement.
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    Lizzie, the contracts between FS and record owners are often for record preservation. Any publishing or other forms of public availability of the resulting archive are secondary considerations; FS I'm sure presses for the greatest access possible, but the record owners do not always agree.

    Another problem is privacy laws. FS has to abide by whatever laws are in effect in the record owner's jurisdiction. FS often employs a quick-and-dirty, "all or nothing" approach to compliance. This means that if there's even one image on an entire microfilm roll or digitized image batch that falls within the relevant country's data protection laws, then the entire microfilm roll or image batch is restricted.
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    • Curious - because the pre-1922 records were collected in Dublin, my understanding is that www.irishgenealogy.ie (the Republic's site) covers all of pre-1922 Ireland. I don't therefore see how GRO(NI) has any control over GRO(I) collections...

      All contradictions welcome...

      NB www.irishgenealogy.ie has not yet published all the images within its target timeframe.
    • The Northern Irish records are indeed available through both IrishGenealogy.ie and GRONI, but I suppose that ownership of the records lies with the Northern Irish authorities.

      Most Ireland civil registration images are now available for free through IrishGenealogy, the rest are scheduled for November. https://www.irishgenealogynews.com/20...
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    Is there any way to get an LDS logon if not actually a church member? The microfilm is no longer available, the film is digitized (but not indexed) so I really need to spend a dozen hours viewing it but right now it's only available to LDS church members. Our local FHC is only open for a few hour one day per week and since I'm not a church member, can't view it even if I went there. I'm just broken that I could've ordered the microfilm last year (had I known what film I needed!) but now am just stuck.
    • I suppose that each FHC has some of it's own working rules (such as availability times). In the one that I served in for many months, we provided the ability that if someone wanted to come in by appointment, we would try and find someone that could be there for them.

      You might want talk to those at the FHC to see if they would be willing to do that.

      Also, when you use a computer in the FHC, they can log it in through a FHC "portal". It is possible for you to see things that are available to members there, you just need the right method.

      Again, try talking to the folks there and explain what you are trying to do, then ask if there is anything they could do to help you.
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  • No there is not unless you lie enough to become a Mormon. I do not advocate this course of action.
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    No, becoming a Mormon isn't an option. I was hoping there would be a way through volunteer work or being vouched for by a member, something like that.
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    When I was at the FHL in Salt Lake City, the staff there just logged in for me and I was able to see the restricted images. The person who logs in for you sits nearby. I spoke to a supervisor and asked if this was just the policy in Salt Lake and was told that the same would happen at my local FHC. So when I go to my local FHC a volunteer who is a church member just logs in for anyone who needs to see restricted images. As our center is very small, the person who logs in does not need to sit next to the patron, but is in the same room. I volunteer at the FHC but am not a member.
    • Linda gee In my thoughts that is some thing they need to fix, I am not sure how they would do that. I feel for you, that is something I would suggest to them to set it up so people that are volunteers can have access and help others. all I can say is good luck and thanks for Volunteering to help people with family history.
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  • 2
    If a non-member comes into our local FHC while I am there, I will log into FamilySearch and allow them to access the records under my credentials. I ask that they bring an USB device to download what they find so they can take the images with them.
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  • I’m Hoping for the best, I feel for all that is needed.
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    Tom in the FHC they give volunteers access to certain things and people must ask to use and get help, this is one thing that would be great if they get the Volunteers access and made the others ask to use.
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  • Hello everybody! Thanks for the enormous job FHCs all over the world make everyday. I am writing from Buenos Aires, Argentina because I have a doubt about 3 microfilme rolls that I used to check in the old days before the switch to digital and now that have been apparently digitized but they seem not to be available for viewing, not even at my local FHC... The url of one of them as an example is the following:

    https://www.familysearch.org/search/f...

    They are from San Severino Lucano, a small town in Potenza, southern Italy, from where my paternal grandparents emigrated to Argentina. Could someone with full Church member status confirm if this roll is viewable somehow?

    Thanks in advance for your kind replies.

    Best regards,

    Leonardo.
    • Welcome to the community support forum for FamilySearch. FamilySearch personnel read every discussion thread and may or may not respond as their time permits. We patrons (users), having various levels of knowledge and experience do our best to help each other with concerns, issues. and/or questions. I hope that the following will help (I am another patron/user).

      By using your link, I could not view the records. Using the film number to get to the catalog entry:

      I found four entries:


      For example, the first gives me this catalog page:


      And clicking on "here" for the first entry under notes takes me to this page:


      Clicking on browse images, I can see the images with no problems from home.

      Now, as to that film number, it is part of the collection and has this entry in the catalog page:

      Title: Nati, morti, matrimoni, pubblicazioni, cittadinanze 1911-1921 (Mancano pubblicazioni del 1921)

      Film number: 1284178 Items 2 - 4

      DGS number: 7847930

      The DGS number is the digital number. Given the three "films" that fall into this category, all of them are from 1919 or later, there may be some kind of restriction on the images or they may not have yet been made available through the site.

      Restrictions are generally specified by the owners of the original material, or be time-based, depending upon who provided the index. With the "film" (7847930) showing images not available, we simply do not know what the situation is. There is no camera icon, like there is for records from earlier for the same location, suggesting that they may not have been published on line at this point in time.

      Maybe someone from FamilySearch can look into this and provide us with the situation with this particular film.
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  • Thanks Tom for your incredibly detailed and immediate answer!!

    Yes, they are for the period 1911-1928. These rolls are shared with other towns that why the roll number search gives 4 results. The exact detail is these:

    1) Nati, morti, matrimoni, pubblicazioni, cittadinanze 1911-1921 (Mancano pubblicazioni del 1921) - Family History Library - International B1 High Density Microfilme: 1284178 Items 2 - 4DGS: 7847930

    2) Nati, morti, matrimoni, pubblicazioni, cittadinanze 1922-1928 (Mancano pubblicazioni 1922-1924) - Nati 1929 - Family History Library - International B1 High DensityMicrofilme: 1284305 Items 3 - 4DGS: 7847974

    3) Allegati 1919, 1921-1922 - Family History Library - International B1 High DensityMicrofilme: 1284309 Item 20DGS: 7847978

    I heard there are some restrictions in italian records allegedly covering 100 years for birth and marriage records... But that would make records up to 1917 available for public browsing but I understand that if they are in the middle of a roll that covers 1911-1921 it might be hard work to separate images that comply from those that doesn't yet...

    I have been able to grow my tree a lot with the Antenati project records from 1809 to 1864 and FS 1866 to 1910, but those last 3 records are the main connectors with emigrating people that came to Argentina like my grandparents. I am trying to build a tree for the entire Comune (since it is quite a small Comune, everybody seems to be connected somehow, either by blood or by marriage...)

    I only wish I had spent more time viewing those 3 rolls when they were available at my local FCH... But back then the Antenati records weren't online so I had so much ground to cover from 1809 to 1864...

    Now I am hoping that Cosenza records go online at the Antenati website since some of my ancesters moved to San Severino Lucano from Morano Calabro in Consenza so I surely have lots of ancesters there.

    Thanks again!

    Leonardo
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    If you look at the bottom of the catalogue record on the page posted by Tom
    Registri dello stato civile di Lagonegro (Potenza), 1809-1929
    https://www.familysearch.org/search/c... ,
    at the individual microfilms, you will see that all have been digitised. Most show a camera icon with a key, and can be viewed at a Family History Center, or an Affiliate Library.

    However, four although digitised, cannot be viewed. Looking at the contents of these microfilms, It appears that this is to do with the dates of the records, and the restriction is most probably related to Italian legislation.

    It was pointed out on another topic related to South African records that digitised microfilms were subject to more viewing restrictions than the original microfilms
    https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
    and I image something similar applies to these Italian records.
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