I’m frustrated

No more Paypal?

Where has the ability to pay for prints using Paypal disappeared to?
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  • I’m confident
    Hi Chris,

    We are not offering Paypal anymore.
    Unfortunately, many of our customers were not happy with Paypal.
    Paypal is not flexible enough for our overseas customers. Also a lot of people did not like to go through the registration process with Paypal.

    ~Javaneh
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  • 2
    Personally I think that having to go through the Paypal registration process (if they're not already registered) is better than not being able to pay at all. It would be nice if you brought it back as an option.
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  • Yes, it would be a nice option in addition to other methods. I have a client that only pays via Paypal on one of my other sites, even though there are other options such as normal CC processing via shopping cart, and I've even offered them invoicing every 30 days and the ability to pay by check (since they are a steady good client and I typically have 4 figure sales to them each month), but they insist on Paypal. I'd lose them if I implemented FM on that site.
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  • This is interesting, because we got a lot of complaints from people about PayPal... this is the first time our users are asking for PayPal.

    PayPal's exchange rate / policy is absolutely unreasonable (even their normal rates are high).

    I'll see what we can do for this.
    • view 1 more comment
    • artmyth,
      I can see using PayPal only if the client has a PayPal account AND has funds deposited.
      People will still use a credit card right?
      Then I really can't see the big deal with not having PayPal. The bootom line is FM has a credit card processing feature so why use PayPal - I agree with Ahmad with his statement above about rates.

      As long as FM has a solid system, good support and GOOD print quality this all what I look for in a print service.
      Trust me I have tried a few print services out - one even cost $100 CDN per year and was crap!

      To me FM has the most freedom because visitors are not redirected to another site and stay within the confinds of your own site.

      Good work FM (FotoMoto)
      Just my $0.02
    • You no longer need to register to use paypal... when you click to make your payment it will take you to the login page and just below that it says:

      "Don't have a paypal account?
      Pay with your debit or credit card as a PayPal guest

      I was considering purchasing this for a client but the majority of people like using this option as they do not have to enter their credit card info
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  • I’m sad
    I assumed customers could pay by paypal, this service which I was so excited about is basically useless to me and the majority of my clients without paypal.
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  • Ahmad (Official Rep) March 04, 2010 07:25
    I'm sorry artmyth, but currently we have no plan to reactivate PayPal. Like I said, their rates are too high and not reasonable.

    This won't change anytime soon, but would you be OK with paying a higher percentage of your revenue to use PayPal? Again, we have no plan to reactivate it, but I'm just curious to know how our users feel.

    Thank you,

    --Ahmad
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  • I second the paypal option... Mostly because it is much faster to check out with paypal since it saves your credit card info. A lot of this has to do with impulse buying so the longer it takes to checkout, the less they will want to do it in the future. Just my opinion. Unless of course you plan to setup a FotoMoto account that can save that data and speed up checkout. If that's the case then that would be just as good as paypal in my opinion. Thanks so much for all the support fotomoto team!
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  • This reply was removed on 2010-03-23.
    see the change log
  • I’m confident
    I'm new to Fotomoto and while I like Paypal well enough as an option that is not why I'm posting.

    What caught my eye in this thread is that it seemed as though everyone was caught by surprise that that Paypal was taken off the table?

    I don't have everything in place yet since making the change to Fotomoto but my standard practice is to post an order info page stating everything from different payment and shipping methods, print finish options, return policies, customer satisfaction, etc.

    Is there some thing in place to inform Fotomoto customers of changes in payment options, shipping options, and product options, so we are able to best inform our customers?

    Thanks in advance...
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  • Ahmad (Official Rep) March 20, 2010 06:00
    whittedann,

    This is a very valid point of concern. I would like to explain a few things:

    - We are still in Beta, which usually means a lot of things change, and some times there might be small glitches and problems. While our system has been solid for a long time now, but we are still examining different things here, from the technical side to the user experience.

    - We do inform our users immediately about all major releases and updates.

    - We include all minor changes in our periodical (supposed to be monthly) newsletters. We try to keep things short though, and not send out too many and / or long emails.

    - To be specific about PayPal, our users (photographers) can still get their payments through PayPal. Their buyers - people who pay and use PayPal or direct credit card payment - do not register on our system, and we do not send newsletters to them. This means while our photographers get informed about the changes, their buyers won't.

    Cheers,

    --Ahmad
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  • I’m curious
    Hi Ahmad,

    I will probably sound dense because I am new so forgive me - still trying to get the gist of things.

    I didn't realize you were still in Beta. My hat is off to you and your team for having such a solid product in the beta stage.

    From a technical standpoint, in all fairness I don't know that I would consider this a major release or update so I can get behind you on this point.

    So on to the monthly newsletters. Am I understanding you correctly in that a change like this, paypal is no longer being offered issue, would be included in the newsletter? I appreciate not being spammed to death with email over every little thing but I would also like to know - a monthly thing would be okay by me. I also appreciate my customers not receiving these.

    In lieu of waiting on the newsletter, is there a spot in the forum or website that we can go to see changes like this?

    So I'm very unclear about photographers taking payments from Paypal?? Do you mean that if our customers contact us directly (assuming because they want to use Paypal - or some other payment method for that matter) to fill an order than we can make our own payment arrangements, then order the print directly at cost from Fotomoto?

    Thanks to you and your team for all your help and enthusiasm.
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  • EMPLOYEE
    I’m confident
    Ahmad (Official Rep) March 20, 2010 08:08
    Hi whittedann,

    Thanks for the kind words.

    You are right, we log all these changes in our newsletter, and write about the important ones here in the forum, and our blog (blog.fotomoto.com).

    For payment to the photographer, let me try to explain better. Just like all e-commerce services, your clients make their payments to Fotomoto, but only 15% of it belongs to us. In order for you to get your money from Fotomoto, you can ask for a check, or a PayPal transfer.

    Thank you for considering Fotomoto!

    --Ahmad
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  • I’m confident
    Thanks for clearing that up! I'm feeling better informed now ;-)
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  • Posted on behalf of users in our "old" Ideas & Feature Requests forum
    This post was liked by 2 people
    _________________________

    i think one of the reasons why you should support paypal (even if you have to add an extra fee of 2% or so) is that it simplifies a lot the ordering process for the buyer:

    they just need to enter their email (usually already in a paypal cookie, so no need to even type it), and their password. and click to confirm the transaction. that's all.

    paypal knows the shipping address if the user has a verified address with paypal (which is the case in most cases)

    that's why, as a buyer, i always use paypal when it's available. because i'm lazy, like everyone, and i really *hate* having to type in my full address again and again on order forms using credit-cards payment.

    if the paypal processing fees cannot be passed to the buyers, i would be willing to have the paypal processing fees taken off of my profit, since i think this would still increase my overall revenues.

    Comments
    _________________________

    Yes. All the previous poster said! As I mentioned in a similar thread: 80% of something is a lot more than 90% of nothing. Why make it hard to sell?
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  • I’m frustrated, too
    We can not rely on PayPal here in Fotomoto is something regrettable. I've always used and only use Paypal and never had a problem, however. The service is efficient and very safe.

    Many people interested in purchasing my photos (at Fotomoto) have told me they do not buy here because there is no Paypal.

    The Fotomoto staff could not review the decision to dispose Paypal again?
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    please bring back paypal!

    a $0.79 credit card fee for a $1.99 Wallpaper download is much more than the paypal fee.
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  • I’m frustrated
    LOVED THE SERVICE - clean, intuitive, fast and customizable-great work but all for nothing as i couldn't buy......I was about to purchase a $200 print (Hi by Roman Lysenko- beautiful) and then came to the check-out and no PayPal option.....i never buy if there is no PayPal....how can i pay with PayPal?
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  • same with me. i never buy on ebay if the vendor does not take paypal but only credit cards

    i vastly prefer paying online with paypal because the check-out is much faster and much simpler: i just have to type in my paypal password. no need to enter a shipping address.

    for some reason, Ahmad (CEO of fotomoto) has a personal grunge against paypal, which is why it is not supporte anymore for buyers. he does not like the 4% fee paypal takes on exchange rates, compared to 2% or so taken by credit cards. but what is the percentage of fotomoto orders that involves currency exchange?

    frankly i hope they will come to their senses and support paypal again as an option, even if it involves passing some extra costs / fees to the buyers.

    but in my case, the fees are much higher with using credit cards ($0.79 fee added to a $1.99 transaction for wallpaper), and that fee is passed to the buyer. if they were using paypal, the fee would be much less (about $0.15 instead of $0.79).
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  • I’m concerned
    1
    fully agree Tristan....i posted in another post but kept in here...

    seems like there are some confusion on the PayPal side.......their micro pricing/digital goods fees for transactions under $15 they charge 5% + $0.05t..... so on a $1 transaction the PayPal fee would be $0.10....which is significantly lower than $0.79 quoted above....

    Secondly; there is no currency/FX interchanges if you charge in any of the 19 local currencies that PayPal supports.......

    PayPal has some pretty advanced "chained payments" API's which can split/route the payments to Fotomoto as well to the seller (e.g. 15% to Fotomoto and 85% to the seller) all in the same transaction reducing effort/workload and no extra costs/charges than charged as per their rate-card (no set-up or yrl fees)....
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  • Ahmad (Official Rep) April 12, 2011 07:20
    There is no confusion about the PayPal fees. We can do the math too... :)

    I am sorry for not answering these posts, but we have announced our company policy (and not personal policy) several times in the forum (and in person to Tristan!).

    As I have mentioned before there is no plan to add PayPal at this point.
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  • yes, we know the company position (although we don't understand its rational).

    but still this is a forum, and sellers (and buyers) are allowed to discuss the pros (and possible cons) of allowing paypal as an option.

    the issue of the paypal exchange rate is understood, but is that the only rational for dismissing it as a payment option?
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  • I’m undecided.
    May I know who is the credit card processor for FM? Does FM store customer's credit card information in your own database? Is the entire purchase flow from data entry to submitting the transaction to the credit card processor encrypted? I ask because if FM is the merchant keeping/relaying the credit card information I want to know that it is secure. The recent Sony PSN breach is an example of companies dealing with credit cards without thorough security assessments. Can FM provide certification of PCI (Payment Card Industry) compliance?

    Thank you.
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  • 1
    This is ridiculous... lol This topic has been going on for ONE YEAR!!! And the sellers keep asking for it. Fotomoto's position on this is not very rational.

    I, as others here, rather have to pay fees to Paypal than not having the option at all. If the fees are the problem, then let them be discounted from the seller's profit only and Fotomoto can have their 15% untouched. So simple. I don't see the reason for such fuss. Paypal is simply essential these days!
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  • Here is what i heard from Fotomoto:

    At this time, Fotomoto wants to minimize their internal accounting costs, so they want only one payment system (credit-card).

    Adding Paypal (for customers) means adding a second payment system, and this would increase the complexity of their accounting system, and maybe require that they hire extra staff for accounting.
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  • Stumbled across this while looking for something else. A few years ago I had a thoroughly rotten experience with paypal and I ended up losing several thousand pounds. Paypal's behaviour at the same time was unforgivable and it seems their acting like this in disputes is the norm. If fotomoto was to add paypal to its payment methods I'd have some genuine concerns, not least of which would be, wh takes the hit in the event of a callback, fotomoto or me.

    I saw right at the top of this thread that they stopped using paypal because of the bad experiences of their customers. This has to be a good thing and it raises my opinion of fotomoto further.

    Paypal is all very well until something goes wrong, then it turns realy nasty. They are not pleasant peole to deal with.
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  • I agree with all Kim says and still think that it should be offered as an option.

    As long as the above is known, then photographers should be able to take that risk, take the extra costs if they think it will be outweighed by the extra sales and income.

    This is like somebody locking your front door for you because it is 'cold outside'. I rather check myself.
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  • If Paypal were offered by Fotomoto, I'd need a way to block it for my own work, I won't be exposed to practices like that again. For me it's like locking the door because, well, you just don't leave your door unlocked when there are thieves in the neighbourhood.
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  • I've had a few problems with paypal myself (including disputes). I've had LOTS of headache and stress. But still I think this should be an OPTION. It should never be the ONLY option, of course.

    So, if Fotomoto offers it, great. You want it, you use it. You don't, like/want Paypal, just shut down the option. Simple like that!

    Things are so simple, people...
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  • i agree paypal should be an option.

    the credit-card fee levied by fotomoto on small amounts is insane.

    for example, on a $1.99 fee for screen-size digital download, fotomoto charges $0.99 of credit card fees, in addition to the 15% commission taken on the order.

    so the client pays $2.99 and i get only $1.68.

    paypal transaction fees are much less than $0.99 for small orders like those.
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  • Yea... I believe Paypal charges 2.9% fee of the total + 0.30 cents. 2.9% looks WAY better than 15% + $0.99!!!
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  • You no longer need to register to use paypal... when you click to make your payment it will take you to the login page and just below that it says:

    "Don't have a paypal account?
    Pay with your debit or credit card as a PayPal guest

    I was considering purchasing this for a client but the majority of people like using this option as they do not have to enter their credit card info
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  • I’m disappointed
    I have just registered and was happy to hearing that one payment method is PayPal. Regrettably now I have to notice that this is just regarding to payments to me - not a payment method for my customers.

    Sorry, that's not what I can accept - therefore unless PayPal is not usable for customers, I cannot go live with my offer. Alternatively, I have tto look for another provider.

    (Sorry for my English - I'm not a native speaker)
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  • Wow, what a let down. I just signed up for Fotomoto and I see that this site will not work for me LOL. In the US, paypal is standard. Period. There are usually other checkout options, but paypal always is offered.
    When I am buying for the first time on a new site and am unsure of the credentials, I choose paypal because it offers secure, safe buying. If the site does not offer that or google checkout, I do not buy.
    I feel my customers would not trust me if I did not offer pay pal.
    Sigh.
    Oh, well- you guys really seemed innovative and refreshing. But you will lose most of the US market.
    I will check back in the future to see if Pay Pal is accepted.
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  • I’m confused, sad, frustrated
    Wow, you can't be serious!! I spent over 2 days setting this up, then I go to order a test print for fun - and I can't even buy it myself!! Ridiculous. Clearly no-one cares about the exchange rates, and the users all feel having pay-pal would be strongly beneficial. So disappointing....
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  • I’m frustrated
    I concur with everything body wanting Paypal, I have just signed up to use
    this site and am having a rethink of whether I will use as most of my customers
    prefer to use Paypal. I might try a test folder but I wont be adding all my stuff
    onto this site until Paypal payment for my customers is an optoin
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  • I’m frustrated and concerned
    1
    i am glad i stumbled across this topic, i was going to sign up but; am having to reconsider because of paypal not being an option.
    why not just give the option and inform customers that there is a surcharge for using paypal to cover costs?
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  • ok, i gotta pipe in. and i have had major problems with paypal - that said, it is pretty nifty because it doesn't show up on your credit reports. in other words, it is a hidden bank account. so far.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Bummer. No Paypal? That is end game for me. I was excited about starting to use this software, but without that option, I'll look elsewhere.
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  • I’m dissapointed.
    1
    Please re-consider adding paypal as an extra option.

    It is an option and there are many reasons why people may prefer paypal, such as safety, confidentiality amongst other things.

    Not everyone knows exactly who fotomodo is, or trusts joephotography.com with their creditcard.

    Paypal has earned that trust, so yes i'd rather have that option and let the client decide if they want to use paypal and pay the fee, then Not.
    • Laurian Ene,
      First off the domain you provided goes to http://www.theoldsweetshop.org and not joephotography.com - maybe it is a parked domain. i found that a bit fishy.

      Secondly when I go to check out at the top it states "You can also pay by credit card over the phone, call us on 020 8871 2272 Mon-Sat 9:30am - 6pm" is it REALLY using Fotomoto (FM).

      The reason FM does not want to use PayPal(PP) is I think that they will loose a percentage of profit for PP.

      Personally, as a professional photographer in Ontario, Canada I only use there service for social bookmarks - I have yet to see the print quality.

      To me FM needs to have a concrete sales pitch - one reason i would go to Smugmug.

      Let's face it - FM is a good thing and PP is gone so let's move on.
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  • @Kaurian

    joephotography was just an example that was not meant to be a real link! :)

    no, the real reason FM does not want to use PayPal(PP) is because they (FM) do not want to have to support multiple payment systems, because it's creates more work for them to do so. they made that clear.
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  • CHAMP
    I’m totally upset with this
    It is funny, I have been involved with FM for a long time, I like the service - but when you look at the top of this thread and read the following by Javaneh:

    Hi Chris,

    We are not offering Paypal anymore.
    Unfortunately, many of our customers were not happy with Paypal.
    Paypal is not flexible enough for our overseas customers. Also a lot of people did not like to go through the registration process with Paypal.

    ~Javaneh

    ===============================

    - Not happy with PP?

    - "Paypal is not flexible enough for our overseas customers" - this statement takes the proverbial cake.

    - "Also a lot of people did not like to go through the registration process with Paypal" - HELLO - you do not have to register for PP

    - Javaneh - read up on PP when you get a chance.

    ========
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  • This reply was removed on 2011-11-26.
    see the change log
  • I’m excited!
    1
    There's a new payment process that was written about in the NY Times recently - the charge is 25 cents - no matter what. Not international though. It's called DWOLLA (dwolla.com) and unlike the banksters and wall street folks, it was started by a young guy in Iowa, and it is still based in Iowa. No more 3.5% to paypal.
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  • Ahmad wrote:

    I'm sorry artmyth, but currently we have no plan to reactivate PayPal. Like I said, their rates are too high and not reasonable.

    currently the problem is that paypal fees are slightly higher than credit-card fees for large amounts.

    paypal fees are also slightly higher for international payments, but that part not really a problem since those fees are much less that the additional shipping for international orders, so overall it would make a very small difference even if those fees are added to the client's bill.

    but for small amounts (e.g. $10 or less), paypal fees are much less than the credit card fees (which are in part added to the client price by fotomoto).

    e.g. for a $1.99 download, currently a client will pay $2.99 and i will get $1.69. Fotomoto levies a 28% credit-card fee in addition to their 15% normal fee). paypal would only charge a processing fee of about 3.5%.

    in addition, paypal make it much easier to fill-up an order form (no need to enter shipping address, just an email and password are enough if you have a certified address with paypal).

    i'm using paypal to pay items that i buy on ebay almost every week, and i'm glad i don't have to enter my credit card info every time.
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  • I agree with the few that say that many people won't buy online if there is no paypal. Many there a a bit more fees, but I myself very seldom will buy online if the paypal option is not available,. I do not need to trust the web site where I buy, paypal takes care of the transaction and the seller never even sees my credit card number. And most people I know who do buy online are the same, so the few fees extra that there would be. I would also agree that paypal knows where I live so I don't have to write it down again and again.

    Maybe it would give an incentive for first time customers to test FM and then know if it can be trusted when they see the quality prints FM has.

    I really think PP should be an available option.
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  • I’m confused
    Most of my customers want PayPayl, or else they wont buy.
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  • I'm sorry but I don't believe that. Most people pay online by credit or debit card, they don't care what route the card takes so long as it's quick and easy. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything online without the protection that a credit card transaction offers and as a seller I've been put through the wringer by Paypal once too often. If you sell through Paypal you are, one of these days, going to get taken.

    Personally I don't care if a service offers Paypal or not but if it doesn't offer a viable alternative I won't use it.
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