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What can you tell me about Cloudfront? I'm experimenting with 3 different tracker/blocker packages, and multiple Cloudfront.net entries show up (unblocked) on 'Disconnect' on many sites, including this site for Ghostery's GetSatisfaction-powered 'community' forum.
A support person for Annotary (which also uses GetSatisfaction) has told me that I cannot block Cloudfront without losing much of my web functionality. Yet Abine.com (maker of Do Not Track Me) says that Cloudfront tracks and aggregates user data for sale in profiling.
Cloudfront does not show up in Ghostery's list of blockable sites. Can I block it? If so, how? If I do, what will happen to my ability to visit websites?
Also, GetSatisfaction shows up in Ghostery's 'Widgets' section; I have blocked it. Yet, obviously, I am using it to write this post. What gives?
Cloudfront & GetSatisfaction -- trackers?
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Cloudfront is an Amazon operated CDN (content delivery network) that's used by many internet companies to distribute and quickly show the content that's hosted on it to their users. Annotary is quiet correct in saying that if you indiscriminately block cloudfront.net then a lot of the sites you visit will start showing signs of breakage. That said, Ghostery database has a lot of entries for known cloudfront hosted trackers that Ghostery catches and lets you know about them.
As far as other claims: CDN's generally do not track their users for purposes of explicit tracking, generally its things like counts so they know how much to charge their clients. I'm not sure where Abine's information comes from, but our own research suggest that cloudfront service is tracker and cookie free.
Disconnect buckets cloudfront into Content category that they leave unblocked. Additionally, Disconnect does not provide deeper research to identify actual use of the cloudfront buckets, Ghostery does. You are seeing this on GetSat board: New Relic script is actually hosted on cloudfront and Ghostery identifies it correctly. Thats also the power of Ghostery vs Disconnect, Disconnect database is limited to specific 3rd parties and as such covers only about half of what Ghostery sees at any given moment. -
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When Ghostery talks about finding/blocking GetSatisfaction (http://www.ghostery.com/apps/getsatis... ), it means the Get Satisfaction widget that shows up on other, non-getsatisfaction.com websites (3rd-party context).
See the Feedback tab on the right side of www.sidereel.com to see an example Get Satisfaction widget. -
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Gee. My actual questions were not answered, and I'm getting double-teamed with non-answers full of both corporate-speak and tech-speak. I have no real way to respond to the replies above from two (Ghostery?) employees, so I'll pick out bits from both replies.
Felix's reply:
1. "Ghostery database has a lot of entries for known cloudfront hosted trackers that Ghostery catches and lets you know about them. " Which Ghostery entries represent "known cloudfront hosted trackers"? Please provide the complete list. How does Ghostery 'let me know about them'? Does Ghostery block those 'known Cloudfront trackers'? If so, under what names, and in which sections?
2. How does the phrase "known cloudfront hosted trackers" make sense when combined with your statement "our own research suggest that cloudfront service is tracker and cookie free." You have stated that 'Cloudfront is tracker free' while also stating that 'Ghostery catches known Cloudfront hosted trackers'. It is impossible for both statements to be true.
3. Felix's third paragraph does not make much sense to me, other than as an attempt to say that Ghostery is better than Disconnect. I am experimenting with 3 tracker-blockers to see which is best for me.
Alexei's reply:
I'm not sure what Alexei is trying to communicate.
I installed Ghostery and set it to block GetSatisfaction in its 'Widget' category. I then set up a GetSatisfaction account through Annotary's 'Help and Feedback' sidebar, so I could ask a question there. Moments later, I clicked on my browser's Ghostery icon and clicked on its 'Give us Feedback' icon -- which took me to Ghostery's GetSatisfaction widget.
In referring me to the 'sidereel' website (thanks for crashing my computer, Alexei!) I had a moment to see that she might have been referring to a javascript icon, I never saw the icon, but I opened Ghostery and saw that it was blocking a 'help://s3.amazonaws.com/gegtsatisfaction.com/javas . . ..'
I still hope to receive answers to the questions I raised in my original question, and in this reply-
Hi Crone, I was under the impression that I've answered your question, but sure, I'll try to expand on the particulars you want:
1. "Ghostery database has a lot of entries for known cloudfront hosted trackers that Ghostery catches and lets you know about them. " Which Ghostery entries represent "known cloudfront hosted trackers"? Please provide the complete list. How does Ghostery 'let me know about them'? Does Ghostery block those 'known Cloudfront trackers'? If so, under what names, and in which sections?
As I mentioned, Cloudfront is a CDN (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_...). As such, many companies use Cloudfront (itself a service of Amazon) network to distribute their online scripts. In Ghostery database, there are over 20 entries hosted on Cloudfront, heres a sample list: Omniture, Crazy Egg, Alexa, KissMetrics, and many more. You can take a look at the list if you open our extension and take a look at the database file.
2. How does the phrase "known cloudfront hosted trackers" make sense when combined with your statement "our own research suggest that cloudfront service is tracker and cookie free." You have stated that 'Cloudfront is tracker free' while also stating that 'Ghostery catches known Cloudfront hosted trackers'. It is impossible for both statements to be true.
As explained above, please read what CDNs are, hopefully it will become clearer. But to expand, as a CDN, cloudfront does not have any of "its own trackers" (which would be Amazon trackers to be technical about it), only whatever is defined by the hoster in the choices of what content they host on the CDN. For example: I'm KissMetrics, so I will put a script there and give the script code to all my clients to use on their web sites there by creating a tracker. Counter-example: I'm an image hosting company, but I don't want to store the images on my-images.com, so I place them on CDN like my-images.cloudfront.net.
3. Felix's third paragraph does not make much sense to me, other than as an attempt to say that Ghostery is better than Disconnect. I am experimenting with 3 tracker-blockers to see which is best for me.
I'm sorry I haven't been clear here, allow me to clarify: Ghostery is by far more powerful than DNTMe and Disconnect combined. All 3 of the addons are based on database lists that define what they find, and Ghostery database is larger and more complete than the aforementioned products. Of course, feel free to experiment.
Alexei attempted to illustrate the point #1 with an actual example on the internet.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. -
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Annotary's 'Help and Feedback' sidebar
That's another example of the Get Satisfaction widget. When you are on getsatisfaction.com, you are not using their widget, you are on their website. Whatever tracking Get Satisfaction performs on getsatisfaction.com is "first-party" tracking, and the way to avoid it is to not visit getsatisfaction.com.
However, when you are on other websites, and you see a Get Satisfaction widget, Get Satisfaction knows you are on that website along with a few other things - Get Satisfaction is tracking you in a "third-party" context.
Does this help? -
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Replying to the two entries above:
Alexei:
Yes, your answer is responsive to the questions raised by your less-than-clear first reply. The 'amazon3 . . . javascript' is 3rd-party and Ghostery blocks it. The Ghostery access-link (which I have been calling a 'widget' but could call a gizmo or thingamabob) present on both Annotary and Ghostery are not blocked by Ghostery.
Felix:
First, the name: it's CroneWit.
Your replies are non-responsive; I could even call them intentional obfuscation.
You wrote:
"In Ghostery database, there are over 20 entries hosted on Cloudfront, heres a sample list: Omniture, Crazy Egg, Alexa, KissMetrics, and many more. "
I had asked:
"Which Ghostery entries represent "known cloudfront hosted trackers"? Please provide the complete list. How does Ghostery 'let me know about them'? Does Ghostery block those 'known Cloudfront trackers'? If so, under what names, and in which sections?"
I repeat my request: You have the database and know how to recognize which entries are the "over 20 entries hosted on Cloudfront". PLEASE PROVIDE THAT LIST.
On the 'Cloudfront' vs 'Cloudfront hosted' question: I think you are trying to make a distinction which you had not made clear before. I think you are saying that Amazon's Cloudfront service does not have its own trackers, but that its clients sometimes insert trackers (content trackers?) into its Cloudfront service, and that these are the '####.cloudfront.net' trackers that show up (but are not blocked) in Disconnect, and that don't show up at all in Ghostery (even though you say G's database includes over 20 such hosted trackers).
Can you see why I consider that a non-answer?
As for your statement, "Ghostery is by far more powerful than DNTMe and Disconnect combined", I'm afraid Lifehacker doesn't agree with you. They have two articles online in which they mention Ghostery as a rather sorry, out-of-date tool compared to DNTM and Disconnect. (I probably wouldn't have mentioned this if not for your "Of course, feel free to experiment", which I found snide and condescending.)
I don't need your permission or approval to 'feel free' to experiment. I *AM* free to experiment. And so far, Disconnect seems to be recognizing and blocking more trackers that DNTM and G, as well as showing me the Cloudfront.net trackers they don't block.-
My apologies CroneWit, once again I was unedr the impression that I addressed your questions, regardless, here are some more answers.
"Which Ghostery entries represent "known cloudfront hosted trackers"? Please provide the complete list.
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I repeat my request: You have the database and know how to recognize which entries are the "over 20 entries hosted on Cloudfront". PLEASE PROVIDE THAT LIST.
Please see the list posted by Alexei
How does Ghostery 'let me know about them'? Does Ghostery block those 'known Cloudfront trackers'? If so, under what names, and in which sections?"
It displays the names of the detected trackers in the purple box, or in the panel. Purple box would generally appear on a page while its loading. The panel is accessible by clicking Ghostery icon, the icon also contains a number that signifies how many different tracking apps were found in the current page. The panel also provides other information such as url of the trackers and links to discover more information about them. Ghostery blocking is configurable by the user, so if you set something in the options or walkthrough wizard to be blocked, then it will be blocked until such time as you unblock something -- in the panel and purple box it represented as a crossed out name of the tracker. Heres the page that shows this: http://www.ghostery.com/about
On the 'Cloudfront' vs 'Cloudfront hosted' question: I think you are trying to make a distinction which you had not made clear before. I think you are saying that Amazon's Cloudfront service does not have its own trackers, but that its clients sometimes insert trackers (content trackers?) into its Cloudfront service, and that these are the '####.cloudfront.net' trackers that show up (but are not blocked) in Disconnect, and that don't show up at all in Ghostery (even though you say G's database includes over 20 such hosted trackers).
Essentially, this is correct: there are no trackers from Amazon, just the content of the clients files. Some of those files act as 3rd parties on other websites, so therefore they are included in the database. However, there is much more 1st party use, this is why Ghostery database makes a distinction of what it finds and detects rather than bucket everything into cloudfront.net ala Disconnect.
As for your statement, "Ghostery is by far more powerful than DNTMe and Disconnect combined", I'm afraid Lifehacker doesn't agree with you. They have two articles online in which they mention Ghostery as a rather sorry, out-of-date tool compared to DNTM and Disconnect. (I probably wouldn't have mentioned this if not for your "Of course, feel free to experiment", which I found snide and condescending.)
Well, Lifehacker authors have their own fuzzy definitions of "powerful", they're also much more interested in writing an interesting article rather than support it with analysis ground in reality. Also, the article was pitched by Disconnect for their release of Disconnect 2 so there is heavy emphasis on them. That said, its all in how you compare the addons: to us database size and coverage is the ultimate power of a blocking tool. With that regard, Ghostery is by far better then both DNTMe and Disconnect. DNTMe at this point has just over 600 applications they monitor to our 1400 apps. Disconnect claims to protect you from 2000, but there is no list provided anywhere -- not in the extension and not on their website. So you have to believe them when they tell you thats what they do =). Internally, we have tests to see how effective an addon is and this is how we know they're only half as effective as Ghostery is.
I don't need your permission or approval to 'feel free' to experiment. I *AM* free to experiment. And so far, Disconnect seems to be recognizing and blocking more trackers that DNTM and G, as well as showing me the Cloudfront.net trackers they don't block.
By all means, enjoy your choice and your freedom and let me know if you have any other questions. -
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Sure, here are the Cloudfront-hosted trackers that Ghostery tracks:
Adobe Digital Marketing (Omniture)
Alexa Metrics
Barilliance
Cadreon
Convert Platform
Convertro
Crazy Egg
Errorception
Experimently
GoSquared
GrepData
KissMetrics
New Relic
Pinterest
Qualaroo
Rich
Segment.io
Shareaholic
Sidecar
Spring Metrics
TapIt!
Tealium
Unbounce
Visual Website Optimizer -
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I am glad I could help, but I am not happy about your attitude. Remember that you are asking for help on a public forum for a free product, and we are trying to help. There are nicer ways to say that something is unclear and that you still have questions.
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Replies to the three messages above:
Alexei: Thank you for the list. It is useful information.
Felix:
On Ghostery and Cloudfront:
So the bottom line seems to be that Ghostery recognizes and blocks the 24 named Cloudfront clients in your list, and ignores the myriad of other Cloudfront clients that are attaching themselves to my pages.
On Cloudfront compared to other programs:
First: Lifehacker had TWO articles: one recent, one from around a year ago, both on 'the best' tracker-blockers. Ghostery was included in both articles, but as the least favorable of the three best.
Yesterday, I wrote:
"And so far, Disconnect seems to be recognizing and blocking more trackers that DNTM and G, as well as showing me the Cloudfront.net trackers they don't block."
That statement remains true today. On this page (my GetSatisfaction page showing this thread), both Ghostery and Do Not Track me show 4 trackers being blocked: GoogleAnalytic, NewRelic, Facebook and Twitter. Disconnect blocks those 4 AND 4 other trackers (including MarketTo and KissMetrics) and also lists (but does not block) TWELVE Cloudfront.net 'content' trackers.
So, of the three tracker-blockers mentioned as 'the best' by LifeHacker, I find that Disconnect does the best job of blocking trackers and of informing me of trackers that they don't block, which gives me the option of researching them and blocking them if I choose. (And all 3 programs may be eclipsed by PrivacyFix, which I discovered last night.)
To both of you:
I'm guessing that, as 'the girl' Alexei was assigned the tasks of both providing the list and whining about my 'attitude'. Ghostery is here on GetSatisfaction to provide customer support, which means Answering Questions and Dealing with Problems. I began by Asking Questions, and found that instead of receiving Answers, I was embroiled in Communication Problems. (Maybe English-as-second-language? Certainly the well-known problem of technogeeks having their heads so far into their bits and bytes that they cannot communicate with the average non-geek.)
Here's a summary of my experience, after asking a few simple questions in a friendly, open-minded, curious manner:
"My actual questions were not answered, and I'm getting double-teamed with non-answers full of both corporate-speak and tech-speak."
Because she couldn't explain the difference between the types of GetSatisfaction gizmos that Ghostery tracks, Alexei sent me to a site that crashed my laptop to the point that I had to pull the battery to shut it down so I could re-boot -- always a scary thing, and of course it made me mad.
Throughout this communication thread, I have had to spend time working paragraph-by-paragraph to attempt to decode what you had written, then research online to see if my hard-won 'decoding' made sense, then write to you to see if my decoding actually expressed the point you were trying to make. So I spent HOURS turning your paragraphs of techno-speak into plain English, so you could finally say 'Yes, that's correct.'
Perhaps you do not have the ability to communiciate in anything other than technospeak; you do most certainly appear to respond to repeated requests for clarification as attacks.
So, if you want to whine that I could have been 'nicer', I'll respond with a straightforward statement that you should have been clearer. And if you aren't able to deal with a user who has become dissatisfied, you should consider whether you should be doing user-contact at all.
I consider this thread closed. Thank you for the information you finally provided.-
Umm, well, Crone, thanks for posting your trolling. Since you are unable to understand basic concepts involved and how the applications work, I shall close this thread for you and consider our work here done.
Last note on Disconnect: it lists number of requests, not separate trackers like DNTMe and Ghostery would, this is why the number is a lot higher.
Thanks, and go fuck yourself! -
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Disconnect blocks those 4 AND 4 other trackers (including MarketTo and KissMetrics) and also lists (but does not block) TWELVE Cloudfront.net 'content' trackers.
Is MarketTo and KissMetrics actually on getsatisfaction.com, or are you running into a Disconnect bug where Disconnect shows you trackers from tabs that were opening in parallel/recently closed tabs? -
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I'm guessing that, as 'the girl' Alexei was assigned the tasks of both providing the list and whining about my 'attitude'.
Hey, misogyny much? Not that it matters at all for our purposes, but Alexei is a male name. -
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[Ghostery] ignores the myriad of other Cloudfront clients that are attaching themselves to my pages.
Can you name any of this "myriad" that we should know about? How does it help you to see a bunch of Cloudfront source URLs without any context or further identification? -
CHAMP
CHAMP